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(04-17-2022, 05:51 AM)Chud Wrote: [ -> ]"Art of Manliness"-style masculinity; seeing smoking, growing facial hair, and outdoorsmanship as these impossibly cool and subversive things, rather than activities that normal adult men engage in

This is the one I find the most interesting because the obsession around 'manliness' is something that seemingly pervades the right the most, at least I see it both in the Online Twitter Sphere, normiecon newspapers and blogs, and even politicians in the United States. This position is most strongly held by the rwbb group, and I think REN's 'Man's World' revival is the best example:
[Image: Mans-World-Revival.png]
I enjoy the rwbb twitter's encouragement of exercising and eating well, which is why I also respect the peaters to a great degree, but the obsession around machismo has always struck me as odd. The thing is, this aesthetic is a revival of 80s obsession with masculinity, which itself was already bemoaning the loss of masculinity, the feminization of men, and so on. It's a revival of a revival, which is why so much of it always seems to me like pure caricature of what 'manliness' must have been like in previous centuries. As you said, in previous centuries (and even now, but to a lesser degree), having beards, smoking tobacco, and being an outdoorsman was just something men did. And not just a few, it was practically the norm, unless you were one of the few men wealthy enough or smart enough to go get a college degree and be a white collar worker in the much smaller bureaucratic states that existed at the time. These guys didn't think about how manly they were for smoking tobacco, they just smoked, everyone did. They didn't become outdoorsman out of a wish to look more manly to their peers, many of them probably had to do outdoors activities for work, and they didn't have the expendable income to hire someone to fix shit around the house, so they learned to do it themselves. The masculinity they want to emulate was just the way of life for a large% of dudes in previous decades or centuries. It's good to encourage health and exercise, especially in response to the 'tranny aesthetic' and fat acceptance/health at every size movements, but at some point this stuff just starts to feel like cottagecore but for rw men.
Today I saw a couple of rather bleak videos on twitter. They were of "pedo hunters" harassing, spitting on, and chasing guys they'd catfished. Here's the thread:

https://twitter.com/slonked1/status/1515765335206600706

The producers call themselves 'People v Preds', but who really comes off as predatory in these videos? Who looks like prey? The ostensible reason one should find 'grooming' or 'pedophilia'  disgusting is that abuse of skewed power relationships is wrong. These people then go around trying to create pariahs so they can hurt and humiliate them. These "preds" don't exactly have a lot of power to abuse. They all look weak, nerdy, pathetic, kind of retarded even. I don't think they're out to abuse power over others, I think they're looking for sexual relations in which they wouldn't be completely out of luck on the other end of a power imbalance. Doesn't make what they tried to do good, but their persecutors are obviously not interested in any coherent picture of right or good either. They're a bunch of frustrated normalfags looking for "acceptable targets", and these hapless retards happen to fall into a perfect overlap of 'weak' and 'socially maligned'. They're the most powerless targets one could possibly pick.

Maybe not exactly what the thread was after, but this has been on my mind today.
Reminds me of all those people that keep going after literal retards because they are easy targets.

Not shilling Count Dankula or anything, but the German Drachenlord is a really good example of internet losers ganging up on a mentally handicapped fatso that never finished school. Now, don't forget that Drachenlord is stupendously stupid and has said some really disgusting things on camera, but he's just playing in a different category of human being. In the Middle Ages he would have been accepted as a village idiot. Also note that anti-Norwood hairline and compare it to goons like Dankula.

Not trying to smugly generalize here but from what I've seen of "pred catchers" on Youtube, most "catchers" are clearly broken people. Normal people may express normie sadism against pedophiles from time to time but none of them care enough to try to hunt them down just to expose them on Youtube for a few views. Maybe they're victims of preds themselves, maybe they're "vicious trolls" "turning over a new leaf" and hunting acceptable targets to "use their powers for good", maybe they're just online losers trying to make "content" or seek fame. Even the last group I mentioned is probably pretty rare - the "catchers" so often have angst in their voice when they confront them. They always act like they're taking down some Hannibal Lecter-esque genius superpredator but most of the chat logs involve flirting with a horny Indian man on a dating app and slipping in an "im 14 btw" somewhere.

It reminds me of the modern "lolcow community" of normalfags on Kiwi Farms, a race to find the biggest loser on earth and bring them even lower. Chris-chan only came onto people's radars because of his rich inner world, like other similar figures discovered at the time. His early "trolling" could only really be called teasing and it always contained some degree of respect for his creations. Now A-Logging is the standard treatment. You don't even have to be interesting or react poorly to trolling to have a KF thread now. Half of them are just e-celebs that the average KF tranny doesn't like. It's totally fine to dox them, they're a lolcow! You're just doing research, after all. Look at their ugly apartment building, it's just like 14 Branchland Court! Oh, they got swatted? Not my fault, I'm against that. That's like, totally A-Logging, man. But let's see the video anyway because that's content.

FruitVendor

A stunted millennial who never fully socially matured into adulthood type thing. Life tends to follow a script where a conversation revolves around the topics of Ideas, things and other people. You can completely gauge a person and their upbringing on what they talk most about. 

Constantly punching downwards on easy targets is majority of the time for people who socially peaked early/needing to feign self importance. This type of attitude reared its head in the early days of youtube with "Amazing atheist" types who were somewhat intelligent, but not intelligent enough where it really matters. Idubbz has a video where he flew out to the hollowed out heartland of america to make fun of an obese white kid named "airsoftfatty" who still had an intact, although juvenile imagination where he and his friends had lightsaber battles and played yugioh. 

The women in the youtube comment section for the "to catch a pred" type content demanding snuff film level torture for the accused are more than likely also fervent supporters of lbgtqtxyz+ "sex ed" in elementary school classroom curriculum and would never denounce her favorite gay sitcom character even though homosexuality and pedophilia are interlinked. More interpersonal focused rather than being able to tackle actual real ideas and systems that solves things. Tell these mental peasants that we should eliminate everything pro-gay from media+education and avoid broken families -eliminate the root cause. Confront them on the level of ideas and watch them revile in horror.
(04-18-2022, 01:04 AM)anthony Wrote: [ -> ]  These people then go around trying to create pariahs so they can hurt and humiliate them. These "preds" don't exactly have a lot of power to abuse. They all look weak, nerdy, pathetic, kind of retarded even. I don't think they're out to abuse power over others, I think they're looking for sexual relations in which they wouldn't be completely out of luck on the other end of a power imbalance. Doesn't make what they tried to do good, but their persecutors are obviously not interested in any coherent picture of right or good either. They're a bunch of frustrated normalfags looking for "acceptable targets", and these hapless retards happen to fall into a perfect overlap of 'weak' and 'socially maligned'. They're the most powerless targets one could possibly pick.

Looking through those videos and yeah every single one them is in some way odd looking, I imagine these guys are just incredibly distraught and it's not even so much about an age thing for them, but it may well just be the first time they've been shown interest from someone of the opposite sex. I guess the gay guy in the Goku shirt is the exception, he's just a deeply closeted homosexual. What strikes me as odd is the type of people who make these videos aren't actually stopping a predator from taking advantage of someone anyway. It's not as if they run some hotline where girls who are contacted by creepy dudes can call them up, and they expose the guy. For whatever reason, these people go on chat rooms or dating sites and pose as literal girls, talk to guys, and try to get them to meet up so they can record it and shame them. They're absolutely doing it for their own pleasure first and foremost, not to protect vulnerable people. I imagine if you actually wanted to protect people from predators, there are numerous other ways to do it than lurking chatrooms, those other ways just wouldn't bring you clout, and you don't get to berate and attack someone.

When people complain most loudly about pedophiles, it's usually something like priests in the catholic church, or rich celebrities (eg Epstein), and maybe among more right-leaning people you'll hear them talk about school teachers. But ultimately the only people who end up getting caught and shamed for being pedophiles are usually social rejects like this. They're like the lowest of the low even among possible pedophiles. Pretty perfect case of an 'easy target' they can fuck with to satisfy sadistic urges.
(04-18-2022, 09:30 PM)Leverkühn Wrote: [ -> ]Looking through those videos and yeah every single one them is in some way odd looking, I imagine these guys are just incredibly distraught and it's not even so much about an age thing for them, but it may well just be the first time they've been shown interest from someone of the opposite sex. I guess the gay guy in the Goku shirt is the exception, he's just a deeply closeted homosexual. What strikes me as odd is the type of people who make these videos aren't actually stopping a predator from taking advantage of someone anyway. It's not as if they run some hotline where girls who are contacted by creepy dudes can call them up, and they expose the guy. For whatever reason, these people go on chat rooms or dating sites and pose as literal girls, talk to guys, and try to get them to meet up so they can record it and shame them. They're absolutely doing it for their own pleasure first and foremost, not to protect vulnerable people. I imagine if you actually wanted to protect people from predators, there are numerous other ways to do it than lurking chatrooms, those other ways just wouldn't bring you clout, and you don't get to berate and attack someone.

When people complain most loudly about pedophiles, it's usually something like priests in the catholic church, or rich celebrities (eg Epstein), and maybe among more right-leaning people you'll hear them talk about school teachers. But ultimately the only people who end up getting caught and shamed for being pedophiles are usually social rejects like this. They're like the lowest of the low even among possible pedophiles. Pretty perfect case of an 'easy target' they can fuck with to satisfy sadistic urges.

The fat man who wore a goku shirt to what he believed was a potential sexual encounter didn't strike you as odd-looking? Or as though he'd never received sexual interest before?

And on the subject of the church and Epstein, the place to take this subject if you want to escalate it is celebrities and idols. Especially older ones. How many of these people want to feed David Bowie, Mick Jagger and Iggy Pop into the woodchipper? I don't really have anything against these guys, they lived in a fairly lax time of collapsed standards and a lot of excitement, everyone was doing it. But some of these girls may have been younger than the fake profiles used in these entrapment games.

Is *that* disgusting? Would these guys spit on David Bowie? Are they going to put Iggy Pop on trial like a 100 year old SS survivor? Were these guys seething with rage in the cinema at the 'pedophilic' themes of 'Call Me By Your Name'? Does anybody even remember that movie?

It was put well in one reply to my tweet on this subject, that the real source of child and youth disempowerment is school, and that all of the circumstances that allow genuine abuse to take place can generally be traced back to this institution in some way or another. This brings it into the greater general issue that virtually *nobody* gives a shit about the plight of children and youth. There's lots of performative calls for hellfire and retribution, sweeping changes, but all it ever comes down to is oldfags indulging themselves with jobs and prestige. 50,000 new youth counselors and psychs employed. More pathways into higher education.

Bringing it back to the thread's subject. The idea of acceptable targets is all about power. Generally people exploiting quirks and blind-spots in public perception to punch massively down while acting as though they're punching up. This is why the characterisation of "predators" disgusts me so much. There's nothing more ruthlessly and disgustingly predatory than wretches hunting down bottom-rung weakness like this and then trying to bring down the full weight of public opinion behind their own feeble mass.

What kind of character wants to hunt down and hurt the contemptible? I'm inclined to think it's the next rung above in the social order. Sure there are performative big enemies like catholicism and epstein, but what true fight is there in that? Nobody does anything about Epstein and to put the hurt on the church you buy a ticket to Spotlight, a film which is the movie equivalent of what this thread is about. It's not in the line of ordinary human nature to punch upwards. It's a very uncommon phenomena. We should be highly skeptical of any 'popular' move against an abuser of power.

Could tie this point into #MeToo and the already cornered and falling stars of those who fell to it, but this post is probably long enough now.
(04-18-2022, 10:14 PM)anthony Wrote: [ -> ]The fat man who wore a goku shirt to what he believed was a potential sexual encounter didn't strike you as odd-looking? Or as though he'd never received sexual interest before?
I think I was autistically hyper-focusing on the 'opposite sex' part because he's gay. But you're right, he is odd looking, and he may well never have gotten attention from girls either. I just thought his situation was a little more complicated because he's both incel and refusing to admit that he likes guys. 

It is interesting how people pick and choose who/what they decide to attack. I do remember some people coming out against Bowie years ago, but only after he was dead. I've never heard a peep about Iggy Pop before, even though he wrote a rather explicit song about fucking a sixteen year old (a good song too, imho)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw7USmXMEYo
I imagine it's because these guys are rather confident, secure, and don't actually think anything they did was wrong. If you can't actually bully the target into getting upset, breaking down, and apologizing, there's no point in attacking them. I believe that's how people think. Can you imagine how an old rock star would respond to being called out for having sex with girls 18 or younger? They'd probably say it was great and they'd happily do it again.

Something I don't think I emphasized well enough in my previous post was how these social rejects end up being sacrificial figures in place of more powerful or serious offenders. It's not just that the guys in those People vs Preds videos are the lowest of the low and thus easily attackable, they're being attacked in place of people with actual power, a conduit for people's rage. It's like burning an effigy in place of the actual offender because the actual offender is so beyond your reach.
I'm afraid I can't find the video, but a funny "nonce sting" I remember watching was the one time a channel went after someone with an actually normal/high IQ who ran circles around them with the simple loophole of "It was roleplay, I said so in the chat." After realising they had no legal ground to threaten with, they proceeded just to shame him (or try to), even getting a woman friend of theirs on speakerphone to do the same. Because after all, that's what it's really about.

Is there a class element to it? Here it seems to be purely the occupation of working class proles in shitty areas. It's interesting then that instead of targeting rich and famous offenders, they go for 'their own', though that may just be a case of the former being clever enough to get away with it.

A fun game would be to scan photos of pedos and pedo hunters, guessing which is which. What would you guess these four were individually?
[Image: 4348938.jpg?type=responsive-gallery-fullscreen]

https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/13879...offenders/
Not really representative of normies, I suppose, but a common instance of this on right wing Twitter is going all in on hating homosexuals to avoid saying anything about racial issues, even celebrating non-whites because they use their barbaric punishment methods on gays.

Yes, homosexuals are overwhelmingly disgusting and annoying people who would not be accepted in a healthy society. No, just because Africans think that they'll summon demons to their village and skin them alive as a result, does not mean that said Africans are "based" or should live where I live. Gays have been utterly sidelined by the tide of trannyism anyway.

macintoshuser

"80s movie bullies were right" type guys are extremely Norwood. Anyone who is a revisionist on school bullying - every month on twitter there's a thread or tweet with a ton of engagement from some rw account talking about how based bullying is. 
Here's one from yesterday - https://twitter.com/BroductManager/statu...qU0bAcoKWg
(04-19-2022, 10:42 PM)macintoshuser Wrote: [ -> ]"80s movie bullies were right" type guys are extremely Norwood. Anyone who is a revisionist on school bullying - every month on twitter there's a thread or tweet with a ton of engagement from some rw account talking about how based bullying is. 
Here's one from yesterday - https://twitter.com/BroductManager/statu...qU0bAcoKWg
For some reason the link presented a bit oddly for me so if that happened to anyone else:
https://twitter.com/BroductManager/statu...qU0bAcoKWg

What's so faggoty about these kinds of tweets is it's an obvious larp. Someone who looks back and wishes they could have been a bully when they were younger but obviously wasn't able to be one. It's a very odd power dynamic to think back and dwell on so much. I also feel it's an odd turn for RW people to do this sort of bully revisionism; back when I browsed /pol/ a lot during the early 2010s people would post positively (jokingly or not) about Harris&Klebold or other weird outcast figures who snapped. Elliott Rodgers and Alek Minnasian also come to mind as well. Regardless, the point is that The Right was often fond of the social outcast type, the reject. They looked down on Chads+Staceys, and the whole normie culture that made their life hell. There's been an interesting shift among the Right where people instead want to cast themselves as the Normal Ones- hence, they imagine themselves as the Chad High School Bully shoving weird, nerdy fags and tr00ns into a locker. But the truth is, someone like that still is an outcast, as sick as they think the world is. If they weren't, it would mean people by and large agreed with our outlook on life. We would already be in power, instead of posting anon: it's a cope about not actually being the cool, acceptable person in society. 

You will never be normal. You will never be the bully.
(04-18-2022, 10:38 PM)Leverkühn Wrote: [ -> ]Something I don't think I emphasized well enough in my previous post was how these social rejects end up being sacrificial figures in place of more powerful or serious offenders. It's not just that the guys in those People vs Preds videos are the lowest of the low and thus easily attackable, they're being attacked in place of people with actual power, a conduit for people's rage. It's like burning an effigy in place of the actual offender because the actual offender is so beyond your reach.

I consider everything that happened to Weinstein to effectively be a redirection of the public lynch mob's inability to crucify Epstein after he was assassinated. Manson's case is similar in this regard, as he was sentenced to death by life imprisonment for women's crimes.

Normie sadism should never be underemphasized.

(04-19-2022, 11:29 PM)Leverkühn Wrote: [ -> ]I also feel it's an odd turn for RW people to do this sort of bully revisionism; back when I browsed /pol/ a lot during the early 2010s people would post positively (jokingly or not) about Harris&Klebold or other weird outcast figures who snapped. Elliott Rodgers and Alek Minnasian also come to mind as well. Regardless, the point is that The Right was often fond of the social outcast type, the reject. They looked down on Chads+Staceys, and the whole normie culture that made their life hell. There's been an interesting shift among the Right where people instead want to cast themselves as the Normal Ones- hence, they imagine themselves as the Chad High School Bully shoving weird, nerdy fags and tr00ns into a locker. But the truth is, someone like that still is an outcast, as sick as they think the world is. If they weren't, it would mean people by and large agreed with our outlook on life. We would already be in power, instead of posting anon: it's a cope about not actually being the cool, acceptable person in society. 

You will never be normal. You will never be the bully.


RW Twitter's influence has spread out enough that you could probably Hakanpost at a bar and make women laugh, it's in the ether being coopted by Chapo fats and Red Scare holes. RW Twitter has become a women's space, it's Africa. This is why the new in-group target is "lolicons" (you guys) who go against the longhouse. Every post about what's "wrong" with the RW Twitter sphere is niggers and women complaining about people "not having a normal one". You couldn't openly venerate (or even joke about) outcasts (capable of actual violence) anymore as you would be "scaring the hoes" quite literally.
if any right wingers presently idolize bullies i think it largely has to do with a mistaken view of the bully as a masculine figure imposing his will upon others who displease him in an individualistic manner, analogous to a barbarian or steppe warrior. as we all know, in reality bullying is a longhouse tactic of browbeating others who deviate from social norms into conformity, which explains the irony leftist tendency to identify with it. perhaps the less intelligent among our sphere see this and the facile trappings of violence and hierarchy and don't want to be outflanked by the leftists so they say some pro-bully platitudes, and i'm sure logo has done the same-or will if he hasn't already.

jerzy

Saying bullies enforce social rules or something to that effect is like saying giving women the right to abort is eugenic. It's missing the part about who is doing the action. I don't recall much bullying in my school life but the types that would fit the bill were usually socially rejects themselves and completely ill fit to uphold whatever obligation they would instill on the person being bullied.
It's all semantics, words changing meaning. Bullying of the "social enforcement" type has been long dead, it's corpse rotted, and bones scattered. Most bullies are just failed normies trying to fit in aggressively (convertite complex), instead of realizing they're supposed to impose their values onto the "normies." What we have now is just good ol' sadism. In a way this is due to a lack of the proper bullying, where the "normies" are on the receiving end for being sexual deviants (another rule is to always hyperbolize your enemies) - jacking off to being a dick to people who aren't in some overly narrow psychological "ingroup."

Chop wood, carry water, or in this case, don't let your kids be awkward skellies. If they're gonna be awkward they should have the capability to one punch knockout any retard who thinks he's tough. In a way, this is bullying of the social value enforcement type, because you're punishing imbeciles who are pestering the kids for no reason but to be dicks. This still to an extent exists where I live, I saw it happen to a friend of mine who was an absolute devil, who would literally torment everyone and anyone with utterly deranged methods that seem like something out of fuckin Family Guy. Unsurprisingly, everyone wanted to beat him up for this

macintoshuser

(04-19-2022, 11:29 PM)Leverkühn Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-19-2022, 10:42 PM)macintoshuser Wrote: [ -> ]"80s movie bullies were right" type guys are extremely Norwood. Anyone who is a revisionist on school bullying - every month on twitter there's a thread or tweet with a ton of engagement from some rw account talking about how based bullying is. 
Here's one from yesterday - https://twitter.com/BroductManager/statu...qU0bAcoKWg
For some reason the link presented a bit oddly for me so if that happened to anyone else:
https://twitter.com/BroductManager/statu...qU0bAcoKWg

What's so faggoty about these kinds of tweets is it's an obvious larp. Someone who looks back and wishes they could have been a bully when they were younger but obviously wasn't able to be one. It's a very odd power dynamic to think back and dwell on so much. I also feel it's an odd turn for RW people to do this sort of bully revisionism; back when I browsed /pol/ a lot during the early 2010s people would post positively (jokingly or not) about Harris&Klebold or other weird outcast figures who snapped. Elliott Rodgers and Alek Minnasian also come to mind as well. Regardless, the point is that The Right was often fond of the social outcast type, the reject. They looked down on Chads+Staceys, and the whole normie culture that made their life hell. There's been an interesting shift among the Right where people instead want to cast themselves as the Normal Ones- hence, they imagine themselves as the Chad High School Bully shoving weird, nerdy fags and tr00ns into a locker. But the truth is, someone like that still is an outcast, as sick as they think the world is. If they weren't, it would mean people by and large agreed with our outlook on life. We would already be in power, instead of posting anon: it's a cope about not actually being the cool, acceptable person in society. 

You will never be normal. You will never be the bully.

These accounts are always guys who are posting about hot girl polo shirt nationalism/cocaine fascism. They think Wolf of Wall Street is 'badass' and are probably trying to run some kind of penny stock scheme or ponzi scheme. Most of these kids are just rich shitheads who were never "bullies" in school - more likely they were just the popular or semi-popular kids who benefited from normie culture. So when they get into our spheres they just treat it like high school again - these same guys are the ones getting into egirl drama too (also like hs). There's just this whole "based retard grugbrain" larp that might have started with BAPs weird baby-talk posting that was copied by others like that Caribbean Rhythms guy that feeds into a bunch of orbiters and gets more and more embarrassing the further down the line you go. None of these guys are based bully retards, they just benefit from normalcy the most and want to express that in a way that sounds "based" to others on twitter.
(04-19-2022, 11:46 PM)parsifal Wrote: [ -> ]if any right wingers presently idolize bullies i think it largely has to do with a mistaken view of the bully as a masculine figure imposing his will upon others who displease him in an individualistic manner, analogous to a barbarian or steppe warrior. as we all know, in reality bullying is a longhouse tactic of browbeating others who deviate from social norms into conformity, which explains the irony leftist tendency to identify with it. perhaps the less intelligent among our sphere see this and the facile trappings of violence and hierarchy and don't want to be outflanked by the leftists so they say some pro-bully platitudes, and i'm sure logo has done the same-or will if he hasn't already.
[Image: FRXiDuBVcAEXQhC?format=png&name=medium]
(04-27-2022, 01:04 PM)chungus Wrote: [ -> ][Image: FRXiDuBVcAEXQhC?format=png&name=medium]
Great take from T777, and good expansion on Parsifal's (correct) point. I think the mistake people often make is that Jock's are these powerful, Nietzschean free thinkers standing above our outside societal norms. In reality they just enforce societal standards. They're the foot soldiers for normies; bully the computer kid because Stacy think he's weird and will find you funny if you do. drawing the connection to longhouse behavior is spot on.
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