Amarna Forum

(03-27-2023, 10:12 AM)Illustrious Wrote: [ -> ]In the end it all comes down to this: the westerner can't simply take seriously certain forms of art, be it cartoons or console gaming. Unlike the Japanese mind which sees potential in every medium, the Westerner tends to dismiss a priori certain avenues of expression. The reason for this I don't know, and I wonder if it was something that happened in the later part of the 20th century as we all know that western cartoons weren't always this unfathomably ugly display of bipedal monstrosities combined with downright criminal understanding of color theory. I'm gonna personally blame grunge music for my headcanon, as the visual degradation of non-pretentious fields started with the Gen-Xers.

It's interesting to consider. One of the odd things I have seen people who've lived in Japan emphasize is that it's a "Country of Air," where there is a kind of thinness or groundlessness to things. This is also related to their inability to really get the Western notion of God. I won't pretend to have a deep understanding of their psychology, but it does seem to me at least that the Japanese have little issue pouring themselves into niche crafts, careers, obsessions etc.

Conversely, I get the hunch that underlying many of these hideous Western creations is a bad conscience that simply knows that its life is wretched and can not be redeemed. It's as if their creations are absurd because that's what their lives are, and trying to create something serious and aesthetic would simply be unnatural for them.

(04-03-2023, 01:12 AM)JohnnyRomero Wrote: [ -> ]Limp Bizkit
Probably the poster child of embarrassing (at least by Norwood standards) 2000s music. It seems to me that the 2000s were a time when American society collectively decided to let urban and suburban white trash dictate broad musical tastes, and I think that Limp Bizkit is a great embodiment of this.

In true 2000s spirit, their most famous album has a cover that is a mixture of intentional (the designs and themes) and unintentional (the text placement and font) ugliness:


I briefly got into this sort of music (along with Korn, Rob Zombie, etc.) when I was an angsty retarded 17-year-old; my rationalization was that it was "underworld music," the kind of stuff that cool goblins or demons in Haedes would play. I think that this played on my own distorted tastes and preference for ugliness (now embodied by my obsession with Primus).

Now we have King of the Trailer Trash, Eminem. [...]

"Trailer Trash" is a good description of this kind of music.

One of the more interesting angles to analyze nu-metal and related bands is their drug of choice: methamphetamine. Korn, Linkin Park, and others were all united in using meth. There is also a shared experience of early sex abuse, usually of the homosexual variety.

Pulled from Google:

Quote:Chester Bennington had a history of drug abuse and alcohol addiction. At age 11 he began using cocaine, smoking marijuana and using meth. He attributed his actions to coping with on-going sexual abuse which started when he was just 7 years old by an older male friend. The abuse continued until he was 13 years old.

Pulled from Google again, this time with the singer of Korn:

Quote:Davis: Went to my dealer and got a big ol' fat rock of meth, chopped that shit up and I did vocals. "Ball Tongue" was about our close friend and kind of manager, from Huntington. That was his nickname because when he was tweaking, he'd just sort of seize up and his tongue was like a ball. All that crazy, scatting shit, that was all from me probably being up too long [laughs].

I usually try not to delve into the personal lives of musicians because it frequently becomes a perverse hagiography: their childhoods, the ways in which it formed or deformed them, and then a disturbing close-up on whatever personal life tragedy befalls them. Most of the time these musicians individually are not important — the most famous ones can often be Lotharios, having lifelong preferences for all available pleasures all the time. When we are speaking more generally, however, and comparing the examples above with ones of previous decades, there is a distinct element of decadence here to acknowledge. The lives of these people are trailer park circumstances brought to the limelight, and it is clear that something about these life circumstances were seen as admirable by an audience of dissolute Americans. The Trailer Park musician is redolent of their own personal ordeals.

Interesting that you mentioned both Spengler and "the Underworld". Here is an excerpt from the Hour of Decision:

Quote:In every society degenerate elements sink constantly to the bottom: exhausted families, downfallen members of generations of high breed, spiritual and physical failures and inferiors. One has only to glance at the figures in meetings, public-houses, processions, and riots; one way or another they are all abortions, men who, instead of having healthy instincts in their body, have only heads full of disputatiousness and revenge for their wasted life, and mouths as their most important organ. It is the dregs of the great cities, the genuine mob, the underworld in every sense, which everywhere constitute the opposition to the great and noble world and unite in their hatred of it: political and literary Bohemia, wastrel nobility (Catiline and Philippe Égalité, Duke of Orleans), shipwrecked academicians, adventurers and speculators, criminals and prostitutes, loiterers, and the feeble-minded, mixed with a few pathetic enthusiasts for some abstract ideal.

Since Spengler has already been mentioned, I will continue approaching this subject via his thought. Perhaps the most grievous error is permitting anyone of lower-lowest stock to dictate taste at all. Spengler's characterization of the peasantry, meaning those who do not occupy the thriving cultural centers or are not meaningful participants of it, is that they are present in the eternal sense. They, never being a significant factor in history, exist in a state of intermission where their lives and minds are without change. That being said, habits accepted en masse such as drug use can greatly impact these timeless peasants, along with ill-considered breeding. It is not coincidental that some of these trailer park musicians should become prominent, whose influences are based in negrolatry (rap), when the lower stock of America multiplies.

(04-11-2023, 02:32 AM)anthony Wrote: [ -> ]Jak 2: Unrelenting Ugliness
....

There are bigger mysteries and pursuits in the world than an overly sensitive manchild's "thesis" on what's at worst merely Poochie-tier material that no one was changed or hurt by. 

No matter how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise, nobody cares. This much. Ever. About a children's game. Go look up Lee Goldson, take a long look in the mirror after you read/watch through his whole life story, and go find a cozy padded cell in an institution. Preferably, the sensory deprivation chamber, if there can be "special arrangements".take a

(11-04-2023, 06:31 PM)Guest Wrote: [ -> ]No matter how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise, nobody cares. This much. Ever. About a children's game.

"IIACNSYC"

(11-04-2023, 06:31 PM)Guest Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-11-2023, 02:32 AM)anthony Wrote: [ -> ]Jak 2: Unrelenting Ugliness
....

There are bigger mysteries and pursuits in the world than an overly sensitive manchild's "thesis" on what's at worst merely Poochie-tier material that no one was changed or hurt by. 

No matter how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise, nobody cares. This much. Ever. About a children's game. Go look up Lee Goldson, take a long look in the mirror after you read/watch through his whole life story, and go find a cozy padded cell in an institution. Preferably, the sensory deprivation chamber, if there can be "special arrangements".take a

But don’t you resemble Lee Goldson closer with your prejudice against childish media and its infantilizing effect? Or did you not watch the video you linked?

(11-04-2023, 06:31 PM)Guest Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-11-2023, 02:32 AM)anthony Wrote: [ -> ]Jak 2: Unrelenting Ugliness
....

There are bigger mysteries and pursuits in the world than an overly sensitive manchild's "thesis" on what's at worst merely Poochie-tier material that no one was changed or hurt by. 

No matter how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise, nobody cares. This much. Ever. About a children's game. Go look up Lee Goldson, take a long look in the mirror after you read/watch through his whole life story, and go find a cozy padded cell in an institution. Preferably, the sensory deprivation chamber, if there can be "special arrangements".take a

The greatest of the bigger mysteries that have yet to uncovered is how you turned out to be the biggest flaming faggot known to mankind.

(11-04-2023, 08:44 PM)Guest Wrote: [ -> ]But don’t you resemble Lee Goldson closer with your prejudice against childish media and its infantilizing effect? Or did you not watch the video you linked?

Does that not apply to you? I don't have a prejudice against childish media nor do I care for it, I didn't even give most of these games a second glance, they just came into my line of sight and that was that. I'm not letting it affect me to the point where I'm writing vapid manifestos about how Jak & Daxter is evil or admitting to how being exposed to Barney the Dinosaur led me to make death threats towards kids with crippling physical conditions. 

(11-04-2023, 09:21 PM)Guest Wrote: [ -> ]The greatest of the bigger mysteries that have yet to uncovered is how you turned out to be the biggest flaming faggot known to mankind.

What, no Norwood?

PS2 was the end of an era for JRPGs. FFX was another widely-popular one, played by all types, made by the more artistic team at Square. But following this game, Sakaguchi's resentment over being outdone came to a fore as he decided that "Final Fantasy Online" would become "Final Fantasy XI". When this happened, the series (and JRPGs in general) never recovered. A large group of people simply ignored the genre following this, as there was nothing with the same standard of Art that FF7, FF8, and FF 10 offered.

This was when the revisionism began. And the ironic weeb influence started to creep over all online discussion (influencing market research and future business decisions for devs.) With the successful normies gone (none of them would ever touch an MMO) all that was left was the failed normie.

I don't think it's necessary to go into detail on FFX and the other good ones, as it is fairly self-apparent. Similarly with XI and MMOs, it is self-apparent. XII was another MMO-type game, except offline. Made by the westaboo at the company, who also enjoyed critical success while generally being disliked by most people (FF tactics, Vagrant Story). And XII was exactly what one would expect, a dry, artless affair for egg-heads to call "political fiction."

Luckily, while all this was happening in the mainstream, Falcom was quietly releasing Trails in the Sky. The ambition of the creator, the desire to create something so large, kept him from being sucked into that same death spiral that other JRPG devs fell into at the time. Atlus also stuck to their guns, largely because they always stick to their guns (a proud group of developers.)

(11-04-2023, 10:06 PM)Guest Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-04-2023, 08:44 PM)Guest Wrote: [ -> ]But don’t you resemble Lee Goldson closer with your prejudice against childish media and its infantilizing effect? Or did you not watch the video you linked?

Does that not apply to you? I don't have a prejudice against childish media nor do I care for it, I didn't even give most of these games a second glance, they just came into my line of sight and that was that. I'm not letting it affect me to the point where I'm writing vapid manifestos about how Jak & Daxter is evil or admitting to how being exposed to Barney the Dinosaur led me to make death threats towards kids with crippling physical conditions. 

(11-04-2023, 09:21 PM)Guest Wrote: [ -> ]The greatest of the bigger mysteries that have yet to uncovered is how you turned out to be the biggest flaming faggot known to mankind.

What, no Norwood?

Well now that you mention it; your obsession with this random autist and Kiwi Farms is pretty norwood. It's not even a good comparison since Anthony simply dissecting a game he's played while the guy who's fucking your wife discusses Barney on a personal level. Your whole argument is basically trying to relate the man you're criticizing with someone "bad" in order to discredit them. them. Yes, we get it, Anthony is actually every autistic man you incessantly stalk on Kiwi Farms, no one cares.

(11-05-2023, 07:56 AM)Guest Wrote: [ -> ]It's not even a good comparison since Anthony simply dissecting a game he's played while the guy who's fucking your wife discusses Barney on a personal level.

Anyone can see that they're both discussing these things on a personal level. OP's thesis starts off with him reminiscing on his childhood with the sixth console generation and the "revelations" he gained from it. Do you think I'm as dumb as the "millenilols" existing in your head?

Quote:anthony

---

But then that's basically everything about this game. Stock video game parts just stacked up end to end painted cool 'toon to entertain American PS2 spastics. Enough about my contempt for the PS2 owning cattle I grew up surrounded by a moment. Back to the game.

Quote:x86x2

---

Consider my limited media consumption a product of my environment, a part of wanting to distance myself from Barneyfags as much as possible, so I pretty much tried avoiding anything that they watched out of fear that I'll end up like them.

The 2000s was also an interesting time due to emo music. It was a divergence from metal, and especially nu-metal, that first began out of an earnest desire to express that adolescent sincerity. But it quickly turned to irony, largely due to drug use within and without the various scenes, communities, whatever you want to call them.

Still, you had performers making new strides in this or that direction, although much of it was locked within poor surrounding parts. And of course, it was wholly separate and against hip hop and other such things.

I suppose now some electronic music somewhat represents what emo once did. But electronic music does not have performance as a part of it, no one is pushing their physical talents to the limit such as anthony green and his high vocals/screams with circa survive etc.

Games had an interesting time as well. I knew many people who stopped playing games in the 2000s (some for reasons as explained in the JRPG post above.) But others stopped because Starcraft was finished, or Warcraft 3. It was the end of PC gaming as it was too. These things all live on now, but in greatly diminished forms.

Some have picked up games again, and we see a few games being made for the sensibilities of this older audience now. Many of the turn-based gachas, vn's, and so on, seem to have replaced what JRPGs were in the past. FPS and RTS don't have any similar replacements. I suppose Dota 2 and LoL have something in common with War3 but it is quite alien to be honest. War3 hero arenas were very relaxed, and half of the stuff involved was a total mystery to most players. Those custom maps were largely non-competitive, and only a small group played competitive War3 in the first place (Brood War retained a larger base for much longer.)

Is there a film-fag who knows what happened in the 2000s? I am unaware.

This thread made me think of the 2012 reboot of Bullfrog's isometric shooter Syndicate for the first time since it released. Very young me was excited for the release, only for it to completely flop, in reviews and sales. Yes, it was released in 2012, but most of the important work was done in 2007 and 2008, including, I presume, design.




For a game designed in the 2000s, this looks remarkably clean and slick. Reminds me of Neotokyo, in a positive way. The UI looks like something you'd expect from a AAA game released today, rather than one released in '08.




The main characters seem to suffer from black-trenchcoat-with-odd-and-ugly-adornments syndrome, more of a Japanese issue than an American one, which also makes it more tolerable. Game itself doesn't seem like it's all that special. Good soundwork, shooting looks fun, but filled with boring QTE gimmicks. I find it amusing that, because you're playing as an utterly amoralist crime syndicate member, you're allowed to kill civilians without consequence, and your teammates regularly do so, too.

The only other shooter I can recall from this era was Bulletstorm, a game that fully embodies all the turgid ugliness of 2000s American gaming sans Bungie. Disfigured retards with no necks in gaming PC armor fighting against reskinned "funny" Borderlands psychos, occasionally gracing us with "amusing" one-liners. The modern lumberjack's wet dream. Despite being one of the least fun experiences I've had in gaming, with a gimmick almost as boring as QTEs, I think it was rated better than Syndicate at the time. Perhaps Starbreeze were too foreign in their thinking, making a game that looked and sounded relatively nice, and spooked the average American games critic?

Anyway, as a reward for being one of the only tolerable-looking shooters of the era, the game today is impossible to buy, as it's been totally delisted from EA's Origin storefront.

(11-05-2023, 02:27 PM)Guest Wrote: [ -> ]Is there a film-fag who knows what happened in the 2000s? I am unaware.

I'd love to go into a bit of this.

My short reading of 2000s film culture is that there was a very vital early swing towards European-cool sensibilities (particularly French via Besson and cool-British via Anderson and that manlet spaz Kurt Wimmer). Very white. Skinny beautiful people with cool guns that work like superpowers. People who look like JRPG characters. Movies which aren't afraid to be fun while also being capable of filtering troglodytes, no gay jewish neurosis. No self aware dirt-eating. We got movies that looked like this.




But this wasn't all we had in the 2000s. We also had energy drink consumer numetalcore (these people liked "horror" movies as a kind of social trial and retarded cretinous porn, Saw and stuff), and movies that were stabbing towards the refined zogmeta of today but still had incidentally fun details and felt like real movies. Michael Bay's 2000s movies were shit and retarded but had style and parts that were fun. They eventually got refined into chinafun purple lighting The Meg dirt. And the Marvel movies of the early 2000s felt more like eccentric crime thrillers with an excuse to depart from reality, and so be cool.




Look how fucking cool this is. There's a club in the middle of this American city full of evil Japanese guys wearing sunglasses at night listening to slutty schoolgirls rap about cock. It's like something Topdrunkee would dream up. You probably haven't heard of the director. 'Stephen Norrington'. What does that name sound like? It's another English guy. I really believe that the English have the potential to be the greatest pop-artists and greatest source of pop culture on Earth and the only reason they aren't equal to japan is because they suffer under the weight of a borderline Soviet regime that hates them. They're still absurdly good and influential, but the weight of influence leans older, too much poison in the younger English. The culture probably will die.

But back to the general point I think it's all connected to the rest of what you raise. The early to mid 2000s I believe was characterised by a sleek, future drive which was coming largely from Europe, and it was contending with a bunch of crass idiocy and unrefined proto-current ZOG stuff from America. And a bunch of boring eternal 90s shit going on at the sidelines. Film-kikery's strongest soldier George Clooney making prestige movies about oil to channel his heroes Lumet and Pakula while guilty people pretend to be interested.

What happened? Refinement I think is the key. Stabbing at the formula over and over again eventually produced Iron Man and then it was over for American pop-culture. Look at the transition in director names from this vestigially cool period I'm talking about to Iron Man onwards. We go from English guys to these gross New York jew-mongrel things. Jon Favreau made Iron Man. He is not a great artist. He does not have much in the way of personal vision. He made one personal film and like all new york jews it's just about how great and sensitive and misunderstood his self insert is. At first the Iron Man onwards ZOGfilth were made by gross new york types like Favreau and such, then as they got so refined they're basically just made by process some more diverse and even less substantial people are able to creep in and these movies are now basically making themselves.




This might almost feel like a real movie compared to Ant-Man 4 or whatever they're subjecting their slaves to now, but this was a massive step up in ZOG refinement dogshit to what was happening a few years before.




Compared to Iron Man this is practically Way of the Gun. Directed by the guy who wrote Die Hard 3. American, but not New York. Taking cues from the better parts of what's happening around him.

I feel like the 2000s was a war between taste and vulgarity and pretension (they're on the same team, Marvel Indians and Heavy Drama New York Jews are one struggle to the end). And well, everyone went to see Iron Man, everyone saw The Avengers, nobody saw Way of the Gun, Punisher did okay, the trend I see in all of our media is that taste has never been essential to success, but it was often incidentally riding with it. As I said with my old Halo example, lots of very nice things were for the most part only ever appreciated on an extremely vulgar level. So naturally if you strip out the actually nice parts and just give people what they were already seeing in their minds' eyes to most of the audience nothing is lost.

In the 2000s we had some nice stuff, as every time does, and there was a lot of niceness even in the mass oriented trash for a while. Always good when that happens, but we can't count on it lasting. If the masses are patronising something that's actually good it's only ever by accident. Sooner or later appeals to their lower nature will win because that's easier. I feel like I've written more or less this exact post in other contexts before. It's what happened to popular culture. Another example of the same phenomena.

I hope you can all see what I'm getting at here and why I like studying pop culture and particularly this era. I could post a lot more examples if anybody would like to go further into this.

Syndicate looks good to this day, although I never heard of it at the time. The Eurocool swing does make sense, Blade still runs on TV to this day I believe (saw it on a background TV at a gathering recently), which also shows the staying power of that sort of maximalism.