10-07-2023, 02:03 AM
(10-07-2023, 01:24 AM)Striped_Pyjama_Boy_Nietzschean Wrote: [ -> ](10-06-2023, 05:02 PM)The Green Groyper Wrote: [ -> ]There were moral spasms though. Alcoholism was a serious problem that I recall. Not to mention, after the war there was a culture of silence not glorification of the Einsatzgruppen and the SS. Followed by generations of guilt, including children confronting their own fathers. To give you a few sources, I've done a quick google search.
Stone-Cold Killers or Drunk with Murder? Alcohol and Atrocity during the Holocaust | Holocaust and Genocide Studies | Oxford Academic (oup.com)
Himmler's diary(though the context is ambiguous) "finished for the rest of their lives as neurotics or brutes"
German Reserve Police Battalion 101 | Facing History & Ourselves
I could probably find more but I'm not in the mood to produce a dissertation.
You talk about TND as if its already an accepted ideal outside of a few dozen to few hundred malcontents on the internet. The Negro population is predicted to double if not quadruple by century's end, unless Woke/LGBT/Feminist shit cuts their birthrates it's possible I suppose). The overwhelming majority of the public would balk if you were to present your ideas openly-and not just the "working class" who might titter and nervously look away, but those running this system-in the military, state department, academia and so on. That is the educated White population-who would immediately either take you as an edgy ne'er do-well or a Nazi. Its fantastical nonsense. You act as if you are already in the carriage driving the horse, when the carriage is 500 miles from the station.
It is a remarkable credit to the German people that they recovered so well after the War, what with the devastation caused by Allied bombing, the staggering quantity of propaganda, unequaled outside of the Soviet Union, at the time, and the complete and utter loss of sovereignty. It's natural that some men will struggle to return to civilian life after conflict. Besides, I am not willing to trust Anglosphere scholarship on anything relating to former soldiers of the Reich.
The sixties pattern in Deutschland of (mostly) women going into hysterics about their fathers, was a local effect of a near global phenomenon.
I see that you repeatedly setup an extreme scenario, "you can only have TND if you want to use skin as carpet", "German soldiers were ruined men" which you embroider with elaborate descriptions or great lists of supposed evidence. There is no need either theoretically, or practically, to consider such perverted examples.
I am for the rough and tumble of life. It's the erotic underpinning of Mortal Life, the interplay between the Ideal and Reality.
I have been clear enough in my previous posts, that I am interested in the moral meaning and ramifications of TND, not how to bring it about.
Perhaps you care to say why it is a necessity that TND entail ruined men?
"It is a remarkable credit to the German people that they recovered so well after the War, what with the devastation caused by Allied bombing, the staggering quantity of propaganda, unequaled outside of the Soviet Union, at the time, and the complete and utter loss of sovereignty. It's natural that some men will struggle to return to civilian life after conflict. Besides, I am not willing to trust Anglosphere scholarship on anything relating to former soldiers of the Reich."
In other words, you have no refutation and are incurious and stone headed to boot.
"The sixties pattern in Deutschland of (mostly) women going into hysterics about their fathers, was a local effect of a near global phenomenon.
I see that you repeatedly setup an extreme scenario, "you can only have TND if you want to use skin as carpet", "German soldiers were ruined men" which you embroider with elaborate descriptions or great lists of supposed evidence. There is no need either theoretically, or practically, to consider such perverted examples."
You suggested ICBMs which would have much wider ranging consequences on everything from ecology to agriculture as well as "herding into camps" what precisely is your definition of "perversion"? -perhaps you don't have the stomach to imagine the actual ugliness the destruction of a race really entails? Are you an actual historian of Post War Germany? If you're not, then don't expect me or anyone to respect your claims about "hysterical women" or whatever without going through the courtesy of providing a source for that claim.
"I am for the rough and tumble of life. It's the erotic underpinning of Mortal Life, the interplay between the Ideal and Reality." A long-winded way of saying nothing. You want adventure, sex and struggle, which is entirely irrelevant to the conversation at hand. The second part of your second sentence is meaningless drivel.
"I have been clear enough in my previous posts, that I am interested in the moral meaning and ramifications of TND, not how to bring it about." There are a lot of moral implications-from providing living space to White populations, to giving opportunities for better ecological management. Well wait those don't have anything to do with morality at all-politics, empire, planetary management, and racial development. We can discuss other moral implications beyond ruined men, if you wish.
What about the future? What if Whites a century or a thousand years from now condemn us? Is that something you will consider? How will we sell the White masses on TND? On what moral ground will Aryan armies march to Africa? You may march for glory, for pleasure and for your ambition but you will not be alone.
On the actual moral question not ancillary ones what are you looking for? TND is justifiable under two main moral premises-ethnocentric maximalism. That is ensuring Whites get access to everything with zero competition, or the basis that blacks should be exterminated for their failings, degeneracies, and so forth. I would presume you lean more towards the former. And on that score there is no discussion worth having-either one agrees or one does not.
Members of the Einsatzgruppen did have problems, from alcoholism to occasional desertion. Even if you argue this was or is marginal-Whites are a moralistic race and the guilt of our actions will be a burden on their psyches. At least for a few generations.
On a strictly arithmetical basis-White numbers go up, non Whites drop to zero. I would presume you are in favor of that. So again I have to ask what exactly are you interested in discussing?