Amarna Forum

"It's fake."



First we should establish the existence of wholesome chungus conspiracy theorists, who are the well-known stereotype of UFO or flat earth truthers. These people are commonly considered foolish or delusional, and in some cases they may be mentally ill. They're generally harmless, and the seemingly earnest dedication they have to unpopular beliefs can sometimes be endearing. They tend to support the status quo politically or be vaguely libertarian, because believing you've uncovered giant civilization-spanning conspiracies naturally lends itself towards nihilism when it comes to practical political issues.

True conspiracy believers have always been fringe, until at some point they weren't:



This interview is fascinating to me, in the first place it's incredible that Bob Lazar was even allowed on the Joe Rogan Experience. Rogan uncritically accepts Lazar's story, and in my opinion he's dumb enough to really believe it, since Rogan wouldn't want to tarnish his reputation by inviting on someone he believes to be a hoaxer. No one contradicts him in the comments, even though the story is obviously fake just from listening to Lazar talk about antigravity and element 115 with all his awkward excused pauses. Let alone believing Lazar after checking his Wikipedia page (did Jamie not pull that up before getting him on the show?). Judging from the comments however, many of Rogan's viewers did believe it, showing once again that normgroids are stupider than you think.

These people aren't exactly true believers though, since they mostly consider this podcast to be entertainment. They'll probably move on with their lives after watching a few more UFO videos and sharing them with their friends, unless they don't:



The Shroud of Turin is claimed to be Christ's burial shroud, but it was carbon dated to the 13th or 14th century, among other conclusive evidence that you can read about in more detail on Wikipedia. It would be easy to conclude that this user is making the same category error as the wholesome chungus conspiritard, since he's included in his bio "Every conspiracy theory is real". However, I've observed that he's fairly intelligent. This user is not innocent or deluded, he's cynical and morally corrupt.

You won't find at a convention of UFO cranks. You won't find him in the Joe Rogan Youtube comments, or /r/joerogan. You'll find him on Twitter, peddling nonsense he does not actually believe about gnomes or Atlantis for attention while pretending to be right wing. The motivation behind this user's behavior is different from the motivations of the wholesome chungus conspiratard, but his conspiratorial streak still arcs towards the same nihilistic position.

The low-grade conspiratard optimistically hopes that his fanciful theory will be proven correct, in the same way that the low-grade libtard optimistically has faith that affirmative action and government spending will solve social issues. The high-grade conspiratard cynically posts lies to gain attention from countersignalling the consensus, just as the high-grade libtard cynically promotes leftism to get ahead Patrick Bateman style.

Conspiracy culture in all its forms is subversive and fundamentally libtarded, as it represents the corrupt rejection of truth born from either weakness or betrayal. The truth is our domain, and it's our role to reject obvious lies and hoaxes such as the Shroud of Turin.

The part of this that I think really matters and can be dealt with is using Conspiracy as a whacky twee dodge for talking about real problems. It's kind of like a variant of lumberjacking. Pretending to be crazy uncle with paper notes connected by string on his walls, because that's safer than making the more mundane and obvious criticisms of our time and circumstances.

That said...



That said I do still believe that AIDS used to be so fatal largely due to the amount of party drugs those people were on and the extreme doses of Fauci's highly questionable solution. Also several serial murders from the golden age of all that stuff were probably related to bigger cult activities the government knew about on some level. I believe there's something to these suggestions of conspiracy, but I don't need to identify with these beliefs.

Right, I meant to add but forgot, some unpopular theories that fall into the category of "conspiracy" are surely real. Examples will generally belong to criminal/political/economic/scientific categories rather than magic/aliens. It's worth discussing the individual merits of bizarre claims in cases where there is genuine reason for controversy, but a lot of the time these theories are just obviously fake and people are being stupid or disingenuous if they argue for them. It seems like LARPers often prefer the more ridiculous conspiracies because they're ridiculous, to maximize boldness when truth has already been thrown out the window.

The fact that the term "conspiracy theory" even exists, and is commonly used to discredit all such theories even when they are meritorious (e.g. vaccine skepticism), is thanks to this behavior.

Mason Hall-McCullough Wrote:The fact that the term "conspiracy theory" even exists, and is commonly used to discredit all such theories even when they are meritorious (e.g. vaccine skepticism), is thanks to this behavior.

Rightists will time and time again actually identify with the theories, not just in a cynical way, but as way of retreating. It's a way of burying their head in the sand with the rationale being the epic prankster to libtards who take things too seriously. They're tired of life.

anthony Wrote:The part of this that I think really matters and can be dealt with is using Conspiracy as a whacky twee dodge for talking about real problems. It's kind of like a variant of lumberjacking. Pretending to be crazy uncle with paper notes connected by string on his walls, because that's safer than making the more mundane and obvious criticisms of our time and circumstances.

Which is why I have grown to hate them(At least in the most common form now, swill superstition that has made the leap from paperbacks to Tik Tok instead of germane eccentrics who at least have quite the stories to tell) . That is the mainstream, and I hate the foundations of that and everything built on that. Wipe away every wacky detail and look at the moral core and its the same edicts I was forced to hear about in social studies but twisted around to act as a heterodox explainer-what a depth of feeling! I could go on about what the real big picture is, but I don't feel it, and I don't have further basis for my critique beyond very unpleasant experiences with family enthralled by it I won't blog about.  What I will say is the greatest irony and indeed tragic element I find about this worldview is its use by those casting the shadows on the cave, both unintentionally and in its willing & deliberate form, it is the stuff low trust societies are made of(Or maybe made by..). Take a look at this:


And it's caption

Brown University Views and Re-Views Soviet Political Posters and Cartoons Wrote:ALEXANDER ZHITOMIRSKY

Russian, 1907-1993

"John Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Robert Kennedy...Who will be the next one?"

1968

Photomontage (original photo)

The questioning the pattern drawing the unsaid forces its all there...from the artistic workshops of Leonid Brezhnev. With what wider society developed into and was-makes you think doesn't it?

Mason Hall-McCullough Wrote:

The Shroud of Turin is claimed to be Christ's burial shroud, but it was carbon dated to the 13th or 14th century, among other conclusive evidence that you can read about in more detail on Wikipedia. It would be easy to conclude that this user is making the same category error as the wholesome chungus conspiritard, since he's included in his bio "Every conspiracy theory is real". However, I've observed that he's fairly intelligent. This user is not innocent or deluded, he's cynical and morally corrupt.

I don't know much about but there are many people who believe the shroud is real; I don't think you can conclude he's lying just because he's "fairly intelligent".

(03-03-2024, 06:52 AM)Mason Hall-McCullough Wrote: [ -> ]
[...]
It would be easy to conclude that this user is making the same category error as the wholesome chungus conspiritard, since he's included in his bio "Every conspiracy theory is real". However, I've observed that he's fairly intelligent. This user is not innocent or deluded, he's cynical and morally corrupt.
[...]
You'll find him on Twitter, peddling nonsense he does not actually believe about gnomes or Atlantis for attention while pretending to be right wing. The motivation behind this user's behavior is different from the motivations of the wholesome chungus conspiratard, but his conspiratorial streak still arcs towards the same nihilistic position.

It should be noted that Mr. HellenicVibes himself is a grifter merely seeking "attention while pretending to be right wing" all the same. Once he tried arguing with our friend, The Angel, in a series of Xosts that defended the Red Scare women (33 and 38 years old, btw) as never having actually been socialists. Of course, he did this because what he really is, or was, is an Academia Lefttard at heart... though for the less perceptive, it's not always easy to tell since he routinely scrubs his profile of shit tweets that betray the reality of his skinsuiting. 





Sure. It was an open secret for anyone with a clue ... but this is retarded. Only a striving faggot would post these.



This one was subsequently deleted.

21st century normgroid conspiracyTikTokJoeRoganisms are the modern version of the American Legend. The bored and gullible will always believe is such things, because such stories are vaguely interesting and require no commitment to subscribe to.

Mason Hall-McCullough Wrote:Right, I meant to add but forgot, some unpopular theories that fall into the category of "conspiracy" are surely real. Examples will generally belong to criminal/political/economic/scientific categories rather than magic/aliens. It's worth discussing the individual merits of bizarre claims in cases where there is genuine reason for controversy, but a lot of the time these theories are just obviously fake and people are being stupid or disingenuous if they argue for them. It seems like LARPers often prefer the more ridiculous conspiracies because they're ridiculous, to maximize boldness when truth has already been thrown out the window.

The fact that the term "conspiracy theory" even exists, and is commonly used to discredit all such theories even when they are meritorious (e.g. vaccine skepticism), is thanks to this behavior.

It's not only larpers, it's also genuine bad actors, glowies, and so on. 
I'm sure everyone here has been in a thread on some site or other where some interesting "conspiracy theory" was being discussed, only for it to be shitted up in short order by some flat earth/muh everything I don't like is demonic poster(s)

Mason Hall-McCullough Wrote:This interview is fascinating to me, in the first place it's incredible that Bob Lazar was even allowed on the Joe Rogan Experience. Rogan uncritically accepts Lazar's story, and in my opinion he's dumb enough to really believe it, since Rogan wouldn't want to tarnish his reputation by inviting on someone he believes to be a hoaxer. No one contradicts him in the comments, even though the story is obviously fake just from listening to Lazar talk about antigravity and element 115 with all his awkward excused pauses. Let alone believing Lazar after checking his Wikipedia page (did Jamie not pull that up before getting him on the show?). Judging from the comments however, many of Rogan's viewers did believe it, showing once again that normgroids are stupider than you think.

This may be slightly off topic since this thread is about conspiritards and not necessarily the conspiracies they believe in, but I find Bob Lazar fascinating because he's been around for over 30 years and has been saying pretty much the same exact thing with regards to UFOs and anti-gravity, etc. Unless you believe that all these videos and eyewitnesses produced of UFOs are fake, it's obvious there's something to Lazar's story, but what? 

The issue with people who interview Lazar is that they're all either cranks themselves or low-level guys like Rogan, so they never press him on things that matter. You never hear simple questions asked such as "how does a race capable of interstellar travel just-so-happen to crash in our backyard?" or "how do you know the people who told you that these craft are from X planet in Y constellation aren't lying?" Because of this, it's hard to really tell if he's just someone sent into media by the gov't to obfuscate, or if he legitimately believes what he's saying.

I happen to think that he may believe what he's saying, and perhaps even the people who told him these things believed what they told him, but all of this was obfuscation to hide the true nature and origin of this technology. From some of the video you see--again, unless all this video and eyewitness reports are fake, which is possible considering much eyewitness is "he-said she-said"--assuming it is real, anti-gravitic technology exists. If he did work on these things, he may have some idea as to how it works, that is, what he's been told, but I think the stuff about aliens is pure obfuscation.

august Wrote:because what he really is, or was, is an Academia Lefttard at heart... though for the less perceptive, it's not always easy to tell since he routinely scrubs his profile of shit tweets that betray the reality of his skinsuiting.

It should be apparent to anyone who's spent a good degree of time in this sphere that anyone with words like Zoomer (Fuentes'ism that was briefly adopted before he was outed as a federale, and before that, an unlikeable retard) or some Greek name like Alcibiades in their handle is someone who is desperately trying to "fit in". This was put best by Herr Pervert in a CR episode where he talks about people who want to be a part of a movement just to be a part of something, in reference to secret societies. 

The line of thinking is essentially "if you have some secret aim that you can't let anyone know about for whatever reason, do you want someone in your organization who is only willing to go so far? Do you want someone who's commitment is only so great as a desire to be in your group--no matter how closely their beliefs align with yours? Or do you want someone who will abandon everything to whatever cause it is you seek?"

august Wrote:Once he tried arguing with our friend, The Angel, in a series of Xosts that defended the Red Scare women (33 and 38 years old, btw) as never having actually been socialists

This poison of people who just want to do something is made much more apparent with the entry of the eternal woman into online spheres. In a way, though, we should be thankful for this, because it makes it easy for groups to cut the wheat from the chaff, and for The Elect to create a natural barrier for entry--those who believe we need "women in The Movement ™ can be mocked into oblivion and removed.

I've long noticed an increased public interest in "Conspiracy Theorizing" stemming from the 2016 Hilldog-emails WikiLeak leading into to the Trump election. The tendency has since grown and heightened in pitch since the COVID lockdown circus. Both the private Hillary server and the lockdown are rightly regarded as outrages among Conspiratards and others, but the former have a bad tendency to extend their belief structures into believing things that are just obviously factually incorrect dead-ends: "The Moon landing never happened, Dinosaurs never existed, nuclear weapons are fake". Owen Benjamin is a prime example here, however incidentally correct he might be otherwise across other topics.

What I believe is underway here is that a mass of people realize the System is full of shit, and is transparently running on its own BS. The problem with most Conspiratards is that they witness this and flagrant wrongs in things like the 2016 email server leak or the COVID lockdown ("Wait, the government I live under acts against my interest?"), and so the System seeks to extinguish the legitimacy of this thinking by easily funneling so many of them into espousing bullshit that's within the bounded parameters of System acceptability, because it's obvious bullshit. "Go on espousing Flat Earth Theory and the Bob Lazar story. Here's 5 bucks, some baloney and a packet of mayonnaise, goy, wax on for us."

Conspiratorial thought is a leftist phenomenon. I don't mean to say that all theories that are often called "conspiracy theories" are untrue, but simply that that mindset is left wing. Have you ever talked to a member of the tide of color at length? They can't stop themselves from voicing every nonsensical theory about how the White man personally intervened to make all of them fat.

In the overwhelming majority of cases, conspiratorial thought is an exercise in rejecting what is obvious for what is obviously fictitious but less dangerous, usually in an attempt to soothe some deep-seated anxiety. Muslim terrorists slammed planes into the Twin Towers and killed thousands of Americans for basically no reason excepting the fact that we have a different skin color and are members of a different religion? No, that can't be, that would conflict with decades and decades of leftist programming about how rich Whites in suits are the cause of all ills in the world! It must've been because of the secret Operation Paperclip Nazis in the US government, or maybe those evil and unpopular Apartheid people who I mistakenly believe are White in Israel. Anything to take the attention off the violent, bigoted Arabs we've been importing on a drip feed since 1965, who, on September 12th, 2001, would've been the closest they've ever been to getting (wholly justifiably) pogrom'd and run out of the country.

(Perhaps the real conspiracy, as might tell you, is that the Department of Defense were themselves responsible for spreading these theories precisely to prevent the contingency I just described. Believing this is not the same as believing the previous theories I've highlighted, because this one is a logical extrapolation based on observable facts about the US government as it is now and was then. Bush gave speeches about how Muslims are peaceful while the bodies were still warm.)

Once you understand conspiracy theory as a "comfortable retreat", as a way for leftists to keep hallucinating in their little bubble away from the evil statistics that tell them blacks are stupid and violent by birth, things begin to click into place. If there are so-called right wingers engaging in this stuff, it's because they are more leftist than I am. Uncle Deluge's tendency towards conspiracy ultimately stems from his well-socialized fear of saying the nigger word.

One additional note: BAP has posted compelling evidence that ZOG (which is actually another nonsensical conspiracy theory -- a much more accurate acronym would be "NOG", but it doesn't roll off the tongue quite so well) or some other group makes a concerted effort to put right wingers with retarded and outlandish beliefs like "Trump is the anti-Christ" in the spotlight. Whether this concerted effort is from a leftist group attempting to sabotage the right or from a right wing group who all hold similarly retarded and outlandish beliefs isn't quite so clear. The effect on the right is never good, regardless. As usual, the ever intelligent and astute Donald J. Trump illuminates the correct path for us here: a bit of lip service to get the Evangelical vote; otherwise, total focus on the actual realities that matter (immigration, crime, the economy, culture war, et cetera).

cats Wrote:One additional note: BAP has posted compelling evidence that ZOG (which is actually another nonsensical conspiracy theory -- a much more accurate acronym would be "NOG", but it doesn't roll off the tongue quite so well) or some other group makes a concerted effort to put right wingers with retarded and outlandish beliefs like "Trump is the anti-Christ" in the spotlight. Whether this concerted effort is from a leftist group attempting to sabotage the right or from a right wing group who all hold similarly retarded and outlandish beliefs isn't quite so clear.

BAP also correctly says that conspiracy theories many times hold a modicum of truth. Those that hold the most truth are simultaneously the most interesting and the most dangerous, the latter because they are able to more easily obfuscate. Taking 9/11 as an example, you have such coincidences as Lucky Larry Silverstein and strange occurrences as nanothermites being found at ground zero. MY position is "who knows", but this doesn't stop people such as Alex Jones talking about Germanic Death Cult Deep State sacrificing 3000 lives to Moloch in an attempt at New World Order, not realizing we've been living in the NWO since 1945.

cats Wrote:Once you understand conspiracy theory as a "comfortable retreat", as a way for leftists to keep hallucinating in their little bubble away from the evil statistics that tell them blacks are stupid and violent by birth, things begin to click into place. If there are so-called right wingers engaging in this stuff, it's because they are more leftist than I am.

This is mostly true, but it's important to understand the difference between engaging in and engaging with; that is, understand where these ideas come from, but let evidence and good sense guide you to a proper answer. If there isn't one, then "who knows". Whether 9/11 is a result of muslims being brown niggers or a Nazi Deep State doesn't matter to me, and won't change my view of the world.

The typical, median 2024 Conspiracy Theorist character has come to be part of yet another "Identity" trap that so many of the lesser among us have found themselves prey to. Not that this has any bearing upon the actual reality or unreality of said conspiracies. But the usual self-identified "Conspiracy Person" just fashions to attach a public self towards an embrace of, a preaching of the reality of whatever story they've felt deigned to espouse (at least in their own mind, in spite of whatever pretensions Conspiracy Guy might communicate as "Free Think", this person usually tends to take messages from the top-down). Because Median Conspiracy Guy's self-conception is so tied in with "conspiracies" as such, he's wont to collect as many "novel" ideas in his head, so as to further differentiate himself.

I imagine on Tinder and the like, Conspiracy Theory-identity guys would label one of their interests to be "Conspiracy Theories". At the end of the day this is a safe label, this toes the line. Conspiracy Guy's "interest" might as well be like a girl's interest in Astrology: non-threatening, superficially outlier, but maybe intriguing nonetheless.

"Conspiracy theories" should be judged by their symbolic value. Anything which demoralizes, limits, paints the self as a victim, etc. must be rejected wholesale. Anything which, to use liberal language, opens the mind to new possibilities or suggests that things are broadly more than they seem, we can affirm conditionally, without getting attached.

I think I might have gestured towards this problem in a very early post, but it was bad and I have since deleted it — Mason's post has more foundation.

If I remember my original post, most of what I termed "Conspiracy Culture" had strong relation to this description of the Conspiratard. The discussion of extraterrestrials have an especially long staying power, cryptids or skinwalkers to a lesser extent. Presidents have been asked on late night talk shows if UFOs exist, usually as a tongue-in-cheek gag. We also have...this.



Here is a photo of John Podesta with the author Peter Levenda.


If you haven't heard who Levenda is, that's okay. Most of his books consist of discussions about "Nazi Occultism", with the occasional book on Lovecraft. Read one of the blurbs for a more recent release:

Quote:More than thirty years after his first investigation of the Nazi underground Peter Levenda has returned again and again to his quest for the truth about the true character of the Nazi cult and the people and political movements it has influenced in the decades since the end of World War II.

The wide sweep of this investigation moves from a Ku Klux Klan headquarters in Reading, Pennsylvania to the New York City office of the Palestine Liberation Organization; from the apartment of a notorious neo-Nazi leader to an Islamic boarding school--headquarters of the man who ordered the Bali Bombings. When Levenda uncovered the existence of a Nazi underworld in Asia, the nexus of religion, politics, terrorism and occult beliefs was revealed to be the real domain of the threat to global security.

In short, this is a politically inoffensive character, hence why Podesta can stand with him in front of a camera, in the same way that Bob Lazar can go on JRE without any difficulty. To be honest with you, I'm not really surprised that he'd be on JRE. Ever see Rogan's old YouTube account?





Lazar is right at home.

---

I'll make the attempt to explain why certain people want to believe in Bob Lazar, or in UFOs.

Something that should be stressed here is that interest in extraterrestrials does not radically develop. It can become popular or vestigial, but the issue of life found elsewhere remains the same. What do these authors have in common, other than their subject of choice: Whitley Strieber, John Keel, Jacques Vallee, John E. Mack, Erich von Däniken, Budd Hopkins, and Timothy Good? They were all members of the Silent Generation. The only notable change that has occurred in UFOlogy (imo) has been the ultraterrestrial theory, and that was introduced roughly half a century ago. 

Someone in this Sphere (could have been Mikka) mentioned that Baby Boomers have a strong fear of atom bombs, a fear not prominent in 21st C. generations, and I think we can extend a generational quirk of this kind to an earlier America. These three consecutive generations — G.I. Generation, Silent Generation, and Baby Boomers — are the ones who are most fascinated with the idea of extraterrestrial life. For members of later generation, they can inherit the imagery of a flying saucer or an alien, but they cannot believe in it quite the same way. People like J. Allen Hynek and Peter Sturrock were actual physicists with PhDs. Now the UFOlogist of our time is Tom DeLonge from Blink-182.





But we don't need to tout the squinting face of Tom DeLonge more than necessary. We can instead look at certain forums for insight: what's the current state of UFO discussion? The one I'm looking at has over a million posts, and I practiced as little discrimination as possible when using Snipping Tool.





I am now thinking of those side character UFO enthusiasts in the X-Files, the ones who sometimes try to assist Mulder. There's also the continued motif here of disclosure: receiving word from a con artist member of the government that they will eventually reveal their info in the near future. It is a mixture of boredom and desperation for a Happening. This does not apply as much to contactees, but that's an added layer of real eccentricity, and I basically consider the two groups to be separate.

As for the claim made about American Legends, this can be a good way of understanding why certain people are motivated to the circles in the first place. For some, it's a lighthearted campfire ghost story, and nothing more. That was my rationale as a child reading about cryptozoology, anyway — the idea that the lands of Earth have not yet been brought under our collective observation, that there are still dangers to be found and adventures into the unknown to be made. It's fantasy in the same manner as reading about expeditions and distant travels. In spirit, it's very similar to believing in this:



Assuming that the description above actually applies to the common follower of UFO or UFO-esque matters, there are two conclusions to draw. One is what anthony already suggested, which is they want to be Rust Cohle or a stock quirky eccentric character (without the consequential baggage). In that sense, it's a tongue-in-cheek act without any further motivation. If we're focusing on the mostly cogent but genuinely eccentric believer, the other conclusion is that that they want or need to believe. As can be seen in the 90s Conspiracy Thread and separate discussions had on this site, there is a potency to some conspiracy-art and what it expresses. The impetus to becoming an astrophysicist and searching for extraterrestrial life is mostly gone, but the fantasy has persisted. Can that residual fantasy be made into something good? I believe so.

---

I'm going to make a post in the future about other circles of conspiracy culture. This will involve the more material kind of conspiracies and might eventually get us into libtarded conspiracies. I was planning to make one long post but instead you're receiving the first half. If I end up in radio-silence-land again, just bug me in the shoutbox and I will be summoned.

JohnTrent Wrote:I'm going to make a post in the future about other circles of conspiracy culture. This will involve the more material kind of conspiracies and might eventually get us into libtarded conspiracies. I was planning to make one long post but instead you're receiving the first half. If I end up in radio-silence-land again, just bug me in the shoutbox and I will be summoned.

Yes this would be beautiful. I don't know what angle from which you will approach this topic, but I think it would be interesting to trace the history of the "Nazi Deep State" theory--of course originating with Operation Paperclip--as well as how pervasive it's become in society.

On the history, I'd be willing to bet that this originated with the Commie Deep State, much as they developed the term Conspiracy Theorist to associate you with loons who think the Earth is Flat because Da Bible say so. I think it would be a fun "own" if some Jewish Communist CIA labor leader developed the "Nazi infiltration of US Gov't theory".

On its pervasiveness, you have many oh so nice and friendly moderates like Rogan and even Tucker who believe some version of this. It all comes back to Aryan Hero Werner von Braun who definitely just slaughtered his rocket building slaves because they weren't working fast enough, and we brought him over here? Holy shit dude, that's so fucking crazy, these people were so FUCKING evil n' shit, lets spark up some FUCKING weed bruh. Die nigger golem slaves.

(03-03-2024, 06:52 AM)Mason Hall-McCullough Wrote: [ -> ]Conspiracy culture in all its forms is subversive and fundamentally libtarded, as it represents the corrupt rejection of truth born from either weakness or betrayal. The truth is our domain, and it's our role to reject obvious lies and hoaxes such as the Shroud of Turin.

#ConspiracyCulture

Quote:I'm sure everyone here has been in a thread on some site or other where some interesting "conspiracy theory" was being discussed, only for it to be shitted up in short order by some flat earth/muh everything I don't like is demonic poster(s)

This is basically what happened to 8ch during and after pizzagate, leading to it's death and rebirth as a glowing, qboomer hellhole as 8kun after Watkins was subpoena'd by the federal government. Wat mean?
I think any commentator saying we should "use" the Q-crowd for our thing is blitheringly naive. You cannot discuss serious politics when you are an accidental dogwhistle away from drawing a crowd of schizophrenics out of the retirement home and crashing into an otherwise sensible thread. You cannot even discuss cute anime girls on the same website, because said schizophrenics love to breach containment. And this is all possibly incited deliberately by government agencies, though I don't think there's any way to confirm it without waiting a decade for a FOIA request.

They're unintelligent, unintelligible, offputting, and should just be left to their own websites and have their own fun in between watching re-runs of The Brady Bunch.