Amarna Forum

Most of the discussion here so far has centered around geopolitics, grand cultural shifts, and potential futures. While that's all well and good, the most unique and interesting parts of the last forum (IMO) were those that discussed the minutiae of contemporary culture - especially contemporary internet culture - and the greater rot that they signify.

With that in mind, I'd like to discuss Internet Trannies and their love for this homogenous Norwood aesthetic. Trannypunk can be characterized by an interest in:

• Computers and computer networks - in particular, their ability to obscure reality, to change the texture of everyday life
  
• Anime - especially shojo and "cute girls doing cute things" anime from the 90s and '00s, and in particular Serial Experiments Lain.
  
• PC games, internet forums, and other fixtures of "nerd culture" from the same time-frame
  
• Cyberpunk from the 80s-2000s - especially those that are partially optimistic, feature humans merged with machines or integrated into an alternate world (I've yet to see a tranny soyface over "Soylent Green").
  
• Vaporwave, DNB, and Breakcore music (the most famous Vaporwave album was made by a tranny, now a tranny V-Tuber).
  
• Lingering feelings of depression, listlessness, and miasma; altered states of consciousness brought on by brain-fogging drugs like SSRIs, Benadryl - never stimulants.
  

Related posts from Old Amarna:
On Edgelords and Trannies (2) (3); On the Trooning of the Internet; On the Lain Ideal

It seems likely that the Internet is a large influence, if not THE main cause of the upsurge of trans people we see in society. The divide you draw between "old-school trannies" and today's crop of tr00ns is likely due to the fact that they still had to interact mostly with the 'Real World.' The Autogynephilic Fetish was clearly just that, a fetish. These are people who would work 9-5 jobs in a suit and tie, and maybe act out their fetish behind close doors or at specific gay sex clubs; in that sense even when they went to 'act out' on their fantasy, it was done in the physical world.  In this sense it even AGP People seem more akin to crossdressers than the Contemporary Tr00n who wishes to make their fetish the entire center of their worldly experience; what was once something done at the peripheries of life has been become the center around which every other aspect of their life rotates.

One ideological lens I've seen used to discuss Tranny Aesthetic + The Internet is Gnosticism, but that's something I don't have a good grasp on. What I do understand to a better extent is Philosophy of Mind, and it appears to me that the Contemporary Tr00n willingly dives into (and accepts, either through Will or Mental Illness) a complete rupture between the subjective mind and objective reality, and has chosen their subjective mind to be of greater importance regarding what Is and Isn't Real. This comes out in any argument you might ever attempt having with a Tr00n in which ask them "what a woman is;" it ultimately becomes apparent that Identity for them has little to do with verifiable, empirical concepts, and is purely something relegated to an unquantifiable grasp at 'what it FEELS like to be a woman.' I think it is worth adding that this in some way relates, imo, to the obsession with talk about "Vibes" (if this isn't written down as a Norwood Vocal Tic, I believe it should be). 

I've long thought that Self-ID Trans Ideology is a variant of Bad Cartesianism, but waging sincere philosophical attacks of Transexualism has since struck me as largely pointless:
https://twitter.com/Herr_Leverkuhn/statu...AtOThY8XYA

What the Contemporary Tr00n "Identifies with" when they "Identify as a woman" has no relation to the previously well understood biological category of woman, nor does it have anything to do with historical representations of women to be found in paintings, dramas, or novels. The category they identify with is something of their entire imagining, and I would contend that no two tr00ns could ever substantially agree on what they mean by "woman" despite both identifying with such a category. I think this is why Trannypunk is so obsessed with Computers and Computer Networks, PC Games (especially RPGs), and Cyberpunk. In all of these topics there's a certain abstraction from the physical, or a wish to go beyond if not entirely erase the bonds of physical reality. This is where the claims of "Transexualism as Gnosticism" seem to be most apt, but I'll leave it for someone more knowledgeable.

Will also add as a final note that truly understanding the Tranny Aesthetic probably requires some research into the concept of "Identity," as it's the central discursive concept they use. Echoing Carlsbad, a history of this concept appears pertinent here.

Terminology is important, as is the ontology of this.

I spoke once about the "hyporealreal" - the 2D, digital sphere where stuff that was imagined and "completed" is deposited, like a reverse "World of Forms" idea, which we will call the "superreal" (hyperreal is already taken). But let's switch the name to "subreal" for symmetry purposes. Names are of course always subject to change until I make my mind up on it, lol.

Now this ties in to the whole VR, metaverse bullshit we're seeing and the seeming stubborn dog-headedness to push us all in, a literal migration into the subreal... Now HERE is where shit gets interesting.

Take good ol' trannies in the classical sense. Perhaps a single digit amount are from actual dysphoria. Most are runaway autogynephiles and people who seemingly want to be something else... Sounds familiar? Not only that, but they also consoom a lot of media, particularly certain ones (the Svevladic Media Research Division will look into it, but it seems at a first glance to be something that is very subliminal and subtle) our own "Internet trannies" do.

And here is their connection: they seek not to *escape* into the subreal like the soyish tech nerd CEOs do... They want to "bring it back" and "make it real," dare I say an inversion of the whole process of becoming, which stems from the "superreal," the wellspring of consciousness.

It's not *them* that are transcending... It's their chosen subreal "avatars" or dare I say, deities, that are to "override" them fully...

It makes perfect sense for Amarnites to focus on trannies. All this midwit soyboy masturbation is cope from being broken by society. Being an Amarnite is being a tranny in the making.

Quote:It makes perfect sense for Amarnites to focus on trannies. All this midwit soyboy masturbation is cope from being broken by society. Being an Amarnite is being a tranny in the making.

How do these questionably sentient creatures even find this place?

Quote:Guest Said:

It makes perfect sense for Amarnites to focus on trannies. All this midwit soyboy masturbation is cope from being broken by society. Being an Amarnite is being a tranny in the making.

We can salvage something out of this. We do have something essentially in common with trannies. Broken by society. Broken as natural people. We are all severed from the *flow* of ordinary life enjoyed on an animal level. We look at ourselves and the world around us from without. This is a necessary foundation for becoming a higher tier tranny (more on tiers in a moment) and necessary to become the kind of person who posts on Amarna.

If we're talking about the PC gaming, Lain-watching, skitzocore tranny "culture", these are the higher IQ programmer-trannies. On the other hand trannies can also be dumb people who are just taking to it as a subculture that has answers for personal and largely emotional problems. This is kids on tiktok getting groomed into becoming FtM pooners. I'm pretty sure the average pooner couldn't pass Piaget's Water Test.

I have nothing really in common with the latter, but the programmer trannies I think we *were* in the same boat as at one point. We here are not trannies in the making, I think we're an alternate path to take when faced with the same problem. At one point a programmer tranny was a nerd who found themselves feeling *outside* of the living experience of the world around them, words like 'flat' and 'dysphoric' come to mind to describe this state. I think most of *us* have been there too. But then where the tranny solution gets weird is that they simultaneously assume there are problems in their own nature/essence which need correcting to bring them into harmony with reality, *and* they need to start manipulating reality (via delusional copes and political action).

How trannies, cults, and every other weird movement that grows by collecting weirdos seems to work is accurately describing this sense of alienation that leads up to this and then using that wave of enthusiasm that comes from the recognition, sympathy, and understanding to lead into their sales pitch for the solution, which in the moment can seem to obviously flow from the diagnosis of the problem.

Where Amarna and the trannies fundamentally diverge is that we (or at least *I*) try to recognise and understand this severance from the natural rhythm of life. Really I think this *severed* state is what we're talking about when we discuss autism in the 21st century internet. I'm largely writing this post as a prototype for ideas I want to bring up in an eventual thread on that subject.

Back on topic, we are severed. Life can feel flat, forced, and unpleasant. Is this a disaster, a blessing, or just a quirk of our complex nature? Hard to say, but we're out. I think that the essence of the 'dysphoria' complaint is wanting to get back in. Trannies aren't the only ones who want to get back in, this is probably the root of all variations of the failed normalfaggot phenomena, but trannies are the most extreme example.

I could follow that a lot further but to get back to the main thread subject, the tranny aesthetic. Tranny aesthetic is 90% explained by saying it's autistic aesthetics. Autistic aesthetics are a fascination with the plastic, the ideal, the mechanical, all things downstream from what separates *us* from the normals. Our severance from the rhythm of life. The divergence is then explained half just by that they're a cultural sub-stream. Different people talking to each other insulated after a certain point in time at which them and the rest of autist internet found each other mutually repugnant (Gamergate was the start maybe?). The other half of the reason, and the more interesting one I think, is that there are autists whose ideals trend downward. Self-abasement, irony, insincerity, compromise. Think of the 'TRASH' element of this stuff. Rough "art", broken and distorted music, identification with racoons and that stupid shark-toy they all buy. Then think of our thing. Lions.

These people won't go in for Lions. First it runs the risk of looking ridiculous. Lions are admired because they're impressive. They suggest standards. A lion is impressive because it's *better*, rather than just a goofy cute thing. And secondly a lion is a creature that kills to eat and maintains its place in the world with violence. A shark does too, but their shark is a castrated cartoon. Here the lion is based because he gets on top of the big rock and roars before killing and eating you.

I see the internet tranny aesthetic as the 'low' path of the autistic aesthetic. It's a choice to trend towards baseness. If they'll filter anybody it'll be people too uptight to "get it". The result is a culture that's kind of ironically retarded top to bottom and wallowing in brokenness and incompleteness. Never any kind of challenging or assertive excellence. I also think that's another part of Lain's appeal. Girls and women can only be sexless or BADASS lesbians because then there's no lion-element at work.

I'll cut myself off now before this gets anymore meandering. Good mental exercise if nothing else. I could elaborate further if anybody thinks there's potential in this. Mostly wanted to draft  some ideas so sorry if this felt off-topic or self-indulgent.

edit: tried to fix the quote
edit 2: it works, just copy what you want to quote from a guest and manually create a quote box. good temporary workaround.

(04-01-2022, 03:02 AM)anthony Wrote: [ -> ]-snip-

Excellent typology, you could absolutely expand on viewing trannoids as one traceable lineage in a sort of evolutionary tree of autists. I suppose the root node for trannoids would be the science fiction / fantasy subculture that started germinating in the 60s, eventually morphing into the brief elf phenomenon of the 90s and early 00s (and which had a name that I can't seem to recall), which eventually became otherkin, before merging with the previously less prominent autogynephilia phenomenon to become the modern trannoid subculture. Obviously there are many more influences and smaller phases but I'd say those are the most important. One could spend a lifetime creating a typology of the entire tree if they were so inclined.

Internet trannyism as "proto-trannyism," there's a distinction between total trannies and these. I tried to explain in the latter part of my thread about troons on twitter, but it's a very "blurry" thing.

It starts as trying to "bring the virtual into the real" (real life avatarfagging as a girl character). The local schizo, Mag, had a good thread about "spiritual trannyism" from merely putting a girl pfp causing this sort of thing in the weak willed. Eventually, they become frustrated, and the situation reverses - they try to escape into the virtual entirely, becoming trannies proper

(04-01-2022, 03:02 AM)anthony Wrote: [ -> ]I could follow that a lot further but to get back to the main thread subject, the tranny aesthetic. Tranny aesthetic is 90% explained by saying it's autistic aesthetics.

Well put. There's been a decent number of studies showing the correlation between autism and trannyism. The autists are drivers in practically every sphere they inhabit, and it makes sense that it would be no different with the Tranny Aesthetic:
https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/larges...diversity/

Explains the phenomenon of Tr00ns melting down into sperg-like rages whenever they're met with the slightest backlash against their beliefs. Feel like this also explains the overlap between Tr00ns and Incels, because in many ways it seems like their rhetoric overlaps. We have all seen cases where Tr00nwomen lament that Lesbian women won't date them; the term used in these circles is "The Cotton Ceiling." It's not enough that people use their preferred pronouns, their new fake name, and otherwise defer to them as you would a Real Woman. Lesbian women must also provide them with sex, and view them as they'd view any other woman. These people are often sexual rejects before they transitioned, and continue to be so after, but now they have a more politically correct way of complaining about why they can't get laid.

(04-01-2022, 03:53 AM)Gloom Wrote: [ -> ]Excellent typology, you could absolutely expand on viewing trannoids as one traceable lineage in a sort of evolutionary tree of autists. I suppose the root node for trannoids would be the science fiction / fantasy subculture that started germinating in the 60s, eventually morphing into the brief elf phenomenon of the 90s and early 00s (and which had a name that I can't seem to recall), which eventually became otherkin, before merging with the previously less prominent autogynephilia phenomenon to become the modern trannoid subculture. Obviously there are many more influences and smaller phases but I'd say those are the most important. One could spend a lifetime creating a typology of the entire tree if they were so inclined.

The sci-fi and fantasy subcultures are a fair bit older than that; you could make a strong case that they date back to at least the '30s. More relevant to trannoid genesis, methinks, is the creation of the Western "Funny Animal" and Anime fandoms in the late '70s (they were joined at the hip at birth), which themselves sprang from the Underground Comix scene of the '60s. Much Internet-induced fetishism is rooted in children's media, and these grimy nooks contained the first instances of people openly admitting they got off to that sort of thing.

Tumblrite "queer" discourse, "geek feminism", and "Atheism Plus" are all just hysterical reactions to being ogled by convention sperdos.

Sonic the hedgehog is a cursed IP that lead to tons of mentally stunted individuals. Not sure if it's even that popular in Japan.

Burst of Sonic games would hit retail in late 90s/early 2000s and disappeared overnight. Kids played SA2 battle in their pjs christmas morning got locked in a state of development. Certain juveniles kept playing Sonic games over and over without moving onto other IPs hit puberty and started sexualizing relationships between animal characters in the show. Furries, homosexuals, and the first "wave" of trannies had an origin story involving a sexual awakening centered around Sonic/Anime deviantart self inserts and crude scribbles. Separation of the self from sexuality and training it to be "interchangeable" from a young age.

"I think this is why Trannypunk is so obsessed with Computers and Computer Networks, PC Games (especially RPGs), and Cyberpunk. In all of these topics there's a certain abstraction from the physical, or a wish to go beyond if not entirely erase the bonds of physical reality. This is where the claims of "Transexualism as Gnosticism" seem to be most apt"

Speaking less of our Lain-pilled aestheti-twitter-trannies (which I find casually charming, if only for the nostalgia) and more generally, especially of the most politically-charged of them, the bio-leninist shouters: identification of the Gnostic, or that is, the demonic, as their root, is correct. Notice rhetoric is not concerned simply with a flip in binary identity, but destruction of the binary altogether, all their "challenging" of any sort of differentiation, the basis of competition and vital existence in physical world, in the end it's the annihilation of being itself - yet still, as Gnostics, they grope at some imaged light outside of the physical, some foggy unreal Form they can hope for, reality without its inherent pain (o the beauty of their sensitivity and the filth of their final weakness) and for this I can at least love them more than the Buddhists, those brutally honest and straightforward devils. Nonetheless: demonically possessed, by those sneaky elves who seek to undo the latches of all existence, as was said. I pray for their recovery.

David Szymanski.

As others have said before what is transitioned to is generally a grotesque parody of 'woman' derived from an*me/porn. I don't think the actual concept of 'woman' matters as much as the submission/helplessness they identify with it. As said they side with the cause of dysphoria instead of the normality it divorces them from; this is directly tied to their fascination with certain forms of technology, which is an attempt to overcome the helplessness Anthony describes. Their only means of self-assertion is to become the boy in 00000 at the end of Gravity's Rainbow. Like the 'beautiful ones' in the mouse utopia experiment, they see the affirmation of their masculinity as an impossibility. There's an absolute loss that must be rationalized by fetishizing their perceived powerlessness. wrote "...it appears to me that the Contemporary Tr00n willingly dives into (and accepts, either through Will or Mental Illness) a complete rupture between the subjective mind and objective reality, and has chosen their subjective mind to be of greater importance regarding what Is and Isn't Real." While this is obviously true, there's a prior split between their original identity as male and their concept of what male is, and much of this is due to advances in technology and related cultural developments that have made made men on average more effeminate (I would imagine prodromal trannies more than others). Instead of responding in a healthy way via self-improvement, they (try to) convince themselves they're not really men (that autism correlates with OCD doesn't help). They cope with their perceived castration by embracing a sort of Stockholm Syndrome, anticipating humanity's final defeat by the singularity. The virtual is not just an escape, it's their captor and their savior.

(04-08-2022, 09:27 PM)capgras Wrote: [ -> ]While this is obviously true, there's a prior split between their original identity as male and their concept of what male is, and much of this is due to advances in technology and related cultural developments that have made made men on average more effeminate (I would imagine prodromal trannies more than others). Instead of responding in a healthy way via self-improvement, they (try to) convince themselves they're not really men (that autism correlates with OCD doesn't help). They cope with their perceived castration by embracing a sort of Stockholm Syndrome, anticipating humanity's final defeat by the singularity. The virtual is not just an escape, it's their captor and their savior.

You're absolutely correct that the 'awaking of the tr00n' begins in a sense with a split between their 'original identity as male' and their percevied concept of maleness, and all that entails. What I find interesting about that is we're seeing a massive rise in such 'splits' *not* because we live in a time of such rigid gender roles, in fact, we're probably living in the era with the loosest gender roles in all of history. I think rather few people, at least in the West, really grew up with an incredibly strict sense of "what it means to be a wo/man." Men are rarely told that they can't engage in the arts or 'more feminine' activities, and the days are long gone where women are forced only to be homemakers. More women end up going to college than men in the US, and propaganda about the Girl-Boss Woman that doesn't need a man or kids to fulfill herself has been running nonstop as long as I've been alive.

I refuse to believe this is just a coincidence: The surging numbers of people identifying as tr00ns is in some way directly and positively connected with the fact that we actually no longer live in a world of 'traditional gender roles' and haven't for quite sometime. The deterioration of gender roles and the rise of fluidity simply begets more fluidity. Teens who weren't taught 'what it means to be a REAL MAN' nonetheless flail and cry at a perceived conception of manliness that was never thrust upon them in the first place. Maybe there is a term for this process, but it reminds me of the parallel situation in the United States where despite racial discrimination being at its lowest possible levels in all our history, we now here about it MORE THAN EVER.

(04-08-2022, 10:41 PM)Leverkühn Wrote: [ -> ]You're absolutely correct that the 'awaking of the tr00n' begins in a sense with a split between their 'original identity as male' and their percevied concept of maleness, and all that entails. What I find interesting about that is we're seeing a massive rise in such 'splits' *not* because we live in a time of such rigid gender roles, in fact, we're probably living in the era with the loosest gender roles in all of history. I think rather few people, at least in the West, really grew up with an incredibly strict sense of "what it means to be a wo/man." Men are rarely told that they can't engage in the arts or 'more feminine' activities, and the days are long gone where women are forced only to be homemakers. More women end up going to college than men in the US, and propaganda about the Girl-Boss Woman that doesn't need a man or kids to fulfill herself has been running nonstop as long as I've been alive.

I refuse to believe this is just a coincidence: The surging numbers of people identifying as tr00ns is in some way directly and positively connected with the fact that we actually no longer live in a world of 'traditional gender roles' and haven't for quite sometime. The deterioration of gender roles and the rise of fluidity simply begets more fluidity. Teens who weren't taught 'what it means to be a REAL MAN' nonetheless flail and cry at a perceived conception of manliness that was never thrust upon them in the first place. Maybe there is a term for this process, but it reminds me of the parallel situation in the United States where despite racial discrimination being at its lowest possible levels in all our history, we now here about it MORE THAN EVER.

I think sometimes we underestimate the difficulty implied by the changes you describe in the first paragraph. The further industrialized society becomes, the less use traditional gender roles have in the short term. Long-term they'll still have an impact on which societies succeed and which fall away, but ultimately nothing about traditional masculinity will help you be a better uber driver and everybody's gay now so it probably won't help you find a partner either. The only impact they have on the individual level is the extent to which not conforming with gender roles impacts personal happiness (wine aunts with no kids, de-trans, 41% etc) due to genetic instincts and/or the deviation being too large to succeed even in our current society. I'm sure this dissatisfaction is more intense and widespread than the media reports, but I doubt it's identical to what would be felt if people attempted these lifestyles in an earlier era. There's also the question of the extent to which what we've seen is a simple move away from the biology impacting success and to what extent it's been a shift towards effeminacy. 

To your last point I think the answer is that the friend / enemy is even more grounded in identity politics than it has been, at least in the US, so it makes sense that more effort than previously is placed into building support along these lines.

An important element (and a failing of YWNBAW) is that the modern troon does not want to be a woman- they want to be a girl.

The AAGP MSPaint Laintard & co. is rooted in the Gen X/Y return-to-childhood cult that we see via various peasant-farmer hoarding of pop culture trash, but for the (usually millennial) troon they wish to rewrite their memories with a fantasy version of the Lisa Frank Y2k "girlhood" which they observed from girls as children and combined with their own experience as outcast boys.

(04-01-2022, 03:02 AM)anthony Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:Guest Said:

It makes perfect sense for Amarnites to focus on trannies. All this midwit soyboy masturbation is cope from being broken by society. Being an Amarnite is being a tranny in the making.

I have nothing really in common with the latter, but the programmer trannies I think we *were* in the same boat as at one point. We here are not trannies in the making, I think we're an alternate path to take when faced with the same problem. At one point a programmer tranny was a nerd who found themselves feeling *outside* of the living experience of the world around them, words like 'flat' and 'dysphoric' come to mind to describe this state. I think most of *us* have been there too. But then where the tranny solution gets weird is that they simultaneously assume there are problems in their own nature/essence which need correcting to bring them into harmony with reality, *and* they need to start manipulating reality (via delusional copes and political action).

I feel a great sense of loss when I come across a person that I enjoy talking to in the tech scene and come to find out that they're a trannie. I would consider it similar to the sort of loss I feel when I found out a cool girl I know is lesbian, but it isn't the same. While with the lesbian I am dismayed by the destruction of nature (and also that I lose a potential great love interest), I feel more than that with a trannie: I feel I have lost a distant brother. Someone that I could relate to, go down the wrong path. You have perfectly articulated what I felt in my gut: The trannies and we come from the same source, it's just that they went down the wrong road.

Great essay overall, and I await your thread on the autistosphere, or whatever.

Side note: Maybe this idea of the internet sending those who would have survived better in a pre-Wired age becoming fucked up can be applied to lesbians? A discussion on a tomboy-lesbian pipeline that has been expanded by the internet? Worth looking into, but I digress.

When I was younger (and more retarded) I was thinking how BASED it would be to catch a pedophile groomer. And being a frequent /pol/ user, I had theories that obviously they would all be on transgender discord servers. So I made a fake tranny account and went in to lurk as a "depressed 13 year old" and sure enough I did get some weird DMs.

But all that aside, I did get to see exactly what went on in there. There was a clergy/laity divide of sorts. The clergy were the older trannies who would be very public with pictures of their horrific faces and everything. They were the ones with all the secrets - how to become more effeminate, how to sound less like a pubescent male and more like a cute girl, what to eat, where to get hormones, etc. The laity were the kids, usually 13, 14, 15, etc. who needed all this "guidance". Some of the older trannies would mention how they would be "happy" to take some of these kids in away from their parents who didn't "get it".

All the kids were "depressed". Some were suicidal (not so shocking) and others were attention whores. Some both. And they'd found a way to get lots of attention from others more deranged than themselves. I would say that most trannies were in the wrong place at the wrong time and with bad company. But that doesn't excuse them from what they did next - instead of rejecting the freakishness, they indulged it.

This is where the "aesthetic" comes in. As other posters have pointed out with "laincore", there's a desire to have this idol of the cute nerd girl who sits inside all day. (I've always been biased against Lain AVIs and this explains why they are so unpleasant.) The kids involved have a new identity, and so they are remaking themselves in the image of this ideal. It doesn't help that they further their delusions by masturbating to tranny porn - a surefire way to turn your new ideas into an addiction, an obsession. No one held a gun to their head and made them do any of this - it's all self destruction.

They know it too. I had the displeasure of speaking with a tranny, and I told him that he was in a death cult - which he denied. I asked him where he would be in 7 years. "Dead." "Why?" "I probably will have gotten raped/killed." Their goal is to die and look "cute" and orgasm while doing it - everything is a means to that end.

I don't feel loss, I feel annoyance, frustration, because I realize I must measure my words as I am speaking to a cult member. As a matter of fact I would go as far as to say they are pseudo-glowniggers. I never felt like we come from the same source, instead that they are the result of pollution inserted into the well, taking form. Just another incarnation of The Bad.