Age of Consent

[BillyONare]

I think having an age-matched sweetheart is a sweet thing if it works out well. Important to note that men should hit their prime earlier too, be participating in commerce and having children as young as is feasible.

[Datacop]

is it more humiliating than being chained to your age-matched sweetheart who already hit the wall while you're in your prime?

No, what guest said is definitely more humiliating

[parsifal]

i suppose it's a matter of perspective then. i don't think random girls in your grade dating college guys is humiliating at all.

[anthony]

Being a boy in school and having your female peers fuck older men is humiliating.

Kill all paedos.

The real cruelty I see in this is that the "older men" have been freed from societal constraints which are still firmly holding down the youth. And of course in doing this the girls are reacting to the same constraints. I believe that if school as such a strict and meaningless burden were abolished, and social safety rails that encourage female adventuring and misbehaviour were dismantled this whole issue would settle into a far less revolting state.

If our youth are more  or less set free and empowered to see their futures in their hands, what reason do girls have to seek "older guys"? It goes from an accepted pseudo-revolt against their chains to just a kind of retarded and dangerous activity. I think that if everyone were really free and deranged old pervert social programming were to start being rolled back female virginity would probably be seen as valuable again before too long, that and generally not being a feral female homer simpson.

Like many parts of our nature and experiences, sex is too far divorced from reality and danger. Too much arbitrary interference and insulation from natural consequences and ordering of things. Nobody can even explain why we do all of this stuff anymore. It kind of generally shakes out into letting women and morons indulge themselves a lot without consequences, but it isn't really even good for that. We've just cluttered ourselves in with neurotic impositions which have become ingrained as taboo and sacred order.

[Datacop]

i suppose it's a matter of perspective then. i don't think random girls in your grade dating college guys is humiliating at all.

Maybe "humiliate" isn't the right word, but in effect, young men are artificially castrated by being in bitchschool and then are made to watch as the whores they're forced to interact with at school whore around with older men who aren't being neutered like them. Close proximity with someone like you'd have at school effectively makes all the schoolgoers a tribe and you are being made to watch as other men fuck your tribeswomen. Of course, those so-called older guys weren't free either; they could have easily been arrested and made a sex offender for no good reason, but it was definitely a frustration of mine as a teenager that I was forbidden to have adult responsibilities, and thereby, have freedom, until a certain age.

[parsifal]

when i was in high school i didn't care in the slightest about the girls got up to except for the one i fancied. i think guest wants your mind to replace "your female peers" with "your oneitis" but didn't explicitly say so. that argument falls apart because it's no less humiliating to have your crush date one of your peers. the "older men" phrasing also brings to mind middle-aged losers rather than young adult college students like (most of) ourselves.

Close proximity with someone like you'd have at school effectively makes all the schoolgoers a tribe and you are being made to watch as other men fuck your tribeswomen.

i had an unusually pleasant high school experience and i never felt like this. i did not care in the slightest what my female peers were up to except for the one i fancied.

Of course, those so-called older guys weren't free either; they could have easily been arrested and made a sex offender for no good reason, but it was definitely a frustration of mine as a teenager that I was forbidden to have adult responsibilities, and thereby, have freedom, until a certain age.

perhaps this ties into my unusually enjoyable time in high school but becoming an adult never crossed my mind. i was too busy having fun playing video games with my friends and browsing 4chan.

[T. L.]

^Gem. The white matter part might not even be true. I remember a twitter thread or blog post saying that “the brain doesn’t mature until 25” was the biggest and most unscientific scam in all of of neurology; it’s based on zero evidence. I wish I could find it. It wasn’t arguing against age of consent or anything, just exposing pseudoscience.

Joseph Bronski wrote a whole book debunking this kind of pseudoscience. It is called "An Empirical Introduction to Youth". Was that on your mind, or something else?

[anthony]

^Gem. The white matter part might not even be true. I remember a twitter thread or blog post saying that “the brain doesn’t mature until 25” was the biggest and most unscientific scam in all of of neurology; it’s based on zero evidence. I wish I could find it. It wasn’t arguing against age of consent or anything, just exposing pseudoscience.

Joseph Bronski wrote a whole book debunking this kind of pseudoscience. It is called "An Empirical Introduction to Youth". Was that on your mind, or something else?

Hello Joseph. You can make another account if you'd like. You got banned for repeating yourself incessantly and refusing to advance discussions, not for your beliefs.

And as for unscientific scams, as I keep saying everywhere, nobody actually believes these things on account of internalised bad science, so "debunking" is rather pointless in that sense. What is the point of the introduction to youth book when we already have John Gatto? Same point as exsouciology or whatever that garbage is called. Bronski (who may or may not be in this thread) wants his name pinned to existing discoveries and ideas.

[Guest]

>Hello Joseph. You can make another account if you'd like. You got banned for repeating yourself incessantly and refusing to advance discussions, not for your beliefs.

Take meds

>And as for unscientific scams, as I keep saying everywhere, nobody actually believes these things on account of internalised bad science, so "debunking" is rather pointless in that sense. What is the point of the introduction to youth book when we already have John Gatto? Same point as exsouciology or whatever that garbage is called. Bronski (who may or may not be in this thread) wants his name pinned to existing discoveries and ideas.

Lmao you're fucking retarded

[BillyONare]

“nobody actually believes these things on account of internalised bad science”

Actually everypony does. Every normie believes this. Bronski doing good work.

[anthony]

>Hello Joseph. You can make another account if you'd like. You got banned for repeating yourself incessantly and refusing to advance discussions, not for your beliefs.

Take meds

>And as for unscientific scams, as I keep saying everywhere, nobody actually believes these things on account of internalised bad science, so "debunking" is rather pointless in that sense. What is the point of the introduction to youth book when we already have John Gatto? Same point as exsouciology or whatever that garbage is called. Bronski (who may or may not be in this thread) wants his name pinned to existing discoveries and ideas.

Lmao you're fucking retarded

Joseph you're being petulant again. You'll never get a trillionaire client acting like this.

“nobody actually believes these things on account of internalised bad science”

Actually everypony does. Every normie believes this. Bronski doing good work.

Normal people don't really believe things at all in a way comparable to what we do. Most people I'd actually say.

[Tony]

“nobody actually believes these things on account of internalised bad science”

Actually everypony does. Every normie believes this. Bronski doing good work.

stfu Bronski alt

[avalon]

Being a boy in school and having your female peers fuck older men is humiliating.

Kill all paedos.

Ironically this shitpost has the most true essence of any post in this thread. We don't live in some sort of hypothetical society where men need to wait in order to "gain honor" or whatever it is that Varg believes. Trying to enforce the social norms of antiquity onto the psychological framework of the modern day just leads to immense suffering. All women in first-world countries now are fundamentally broken and dating some autist twice her age that browses /fit/ is not going to change that. Forcing some kid in his teens to be without any relationship experience until his mid 20s is not going to create a functioning member of modern society, it's just going to create someone with a completely warped sense of self. In the past there used to be a social framework that would allow a young boy some sort of hope or another outlet for "becoming a man" but now there isn't even anything that remotely resembles a clan structure which could provide meaning beyond the satisfaction of immediate passions. Life is a completely social experience and no amount of autistic rationalization or abstraction can take being an incel as a teenager into something beyond just being a beta male, literally. Also, though it's not of immediate relevance, love matters a lot more when you're younger and it's cruel to deprive the youth of that. Speaking for myself, I'm literally soulless and can't view any woman I start a relationship with as anything but a utility. This is no way to live.

[anthony]

Ironically this shitpost has the most true essence of any post in this thread. We don't live in some sort of hypothetical society where men need to wait in order to "gain honor" or whatever it is that Varg believes. Trying to enforce the social norms of antiquity onto the psychological framework of the modern day just leads to immense suffering. All women in first-world countries now are fundamentally broken and dating some autist twice her age that browses /fit/ is not going to change that. Forcing some kid in his teens to be without any relationship experience until his mid 20s is not going to create a functioning member of modern society, it's just going to create someone with a completely warped sense of self. In the past there used to be a social framework that would allow a young boy some sort of hope or another outlet for "becoming a man" but now there isn't even anything that remotely resembles a clan structure which could provide meaning beyond the satisfaction of immediate passions. Life is a completely social experience and no amount of autistic rationalization or abstraction can take being an incel as a teenager into something beyond just being a beta male, literally. Also, though it's not of immediate relevance, love matters a lot more when you're younger and it's cruel to deprive the youth of that. Speaking for myself, I'm literally soulless and can't view any woman I start a relationship with as anything but a utility. This is no way to live.

I think you're onto something more important here. That there's really no realistic outlet for erotic and romantic feelings at this stage in life that's acceptable to the ensouled. Every feeling guy I know has more or less had his soul shredded. This is not okay. That doesn't mean state mandated gfs. As you go into, it's a greater problem of meaninglessness and destroyed social framework. When all of life is rendered and declared meaningless in the greater scheme of things the disadvantages and humiliations of youth become torture for the sake of it, work becomes toil, not having is pure deprivation.

I don't ask for state mandated gf. But I would like to hear a good answer for why young men shouldn't. I don't think society has much of an answer. Only aggressive and baseless libtard moralism which is more abusive and enslavement oriented than anything christianity ever asked of us. There's no real promise of anything good in life anymore, just what you can chance into. It's amazing to me what people will tolerate.

[Guest]

Ironically this shitpost has the most true essence of any post in this thread. We don't live in some sort of hypothetical society where men need to wait in order to "gain honor" or whatever it is that Varg believes. Trying to enforce the social norms of antiquity onto the psychological framework of the modern day just leads to immense suffering. All women in first-world countries now are fundamentally broken and dating some autist twice her age that browses /fit/ is not going to change that. Forcing some kid in his teens to be without any relationship experience until his mid 20s is not going to create a functioning member of modern society, it's just going to create someone with a completely warped sense of self. In the past there used to be a social framework that would allow a young boy some sort of hope or another outlet for "becoming a man" but now there isn't even anything that remotely resembles a clan structure which could provide meaning beyond the satisfaction of immediate passions. Life is a completely social experience and no amount of autistic rationalization or abstraction can take being an incel as a teenager into something beyond just being a beta male, literally. Also, though it's not of immediate relevance, love matters a lot more when you're younger and it's cruel to deprive the youth of that. Speaking for myself, I'm literally soulless and can't view any woman I start a relationship with as anything but a utility. This is no way to live.

By nature of competition and the high value young women have it very likely that young men will be out competed and their mate stolen. Not unique. But what about the excess of young men, what for them? Mannerbund, groups of young men roaming the hinterlands killing and raiding what ever they like. Latin America turned into a giant battle ground for American youth who could not obtain a girlfriend. This makes sense, a great way to channel their bloodlust. They return with their loot to the homeland and then can obtain girlfriend, works out. Society today wants impotent incel, it wishes to exhaust and ignore incel rage by castrating young men, steal all opportunities towards wealth and power to cope with inability to win sexually. America needs Fascism!

[anthony]

Ironically this shitpost has the most true essence of any post in this thread. We don't live in some sort of hypothetical society where men need to wait in order to "gain honor" or whatever it is that Varg believes. Trying to enforce the social norms of antiquity onto the psychological framework of the modern day just leads to immense suffering. All women in first-world countries now are fundamentally broken and dating some autist twice her age that browses /fit/ is not going to change that. Forcing some kid in his teens to be without any relationship experience until his mid 20s is not going to create a functioning member of modern society, it's just going to create someone with a completely warped sense of self. In the past there used to be a social framework that would allow a young boy some sort of hope or another outlet for "becoming a man" but now there isn't even anything that remotely resembles a clan structure which could provide meaning beyond the satisfaction of immediate passions. Life is a completely social experience and no amount of autistic rationalization or abstraction can take being an incel as a teenager into something beyond just being a beta male, literally. Also, though it's not of immediate relevance, love matters a lot more when you're younger and it's cruel to deprive the youth of that. Speaking for myself, I'm literally soulless and can't view any woman I start a relationship with as anything but a utility. This is no way to live.

By nature of competition and the high value young women have it very likely that young men will be out competed and their mate stolen. Not unique. But what about the excess of young men, what for them? Mannerbund, groups of young men roaming the hinterlands killing and raiding what ever they like. Latin America turned into a giant battle ground for American youth who could not obtain a girlfriend. This makes sense, a great way to channel their bloodlust. They return with their loot to the homeland and then can obtain girlfriend, works out. Society today wants impotent incel, it wishes to exhaust and ignore incel rage by castrating young men, steal all opportunities towards wealth and power to cope with inability to win sexually. America needs Fascism!

The "competition" framing is bullshit and always will be within a society. Nothing happens without layers of social mediation. Young men are not "out competed". They're placed in a de facto jail and robbed of the opportunity to cultivate status, skill, experience, or really anything of value. Basically everything is only given today, nothing is won or earned. Most people make their preferences and biases plain in who they believe earned what's theirs (them and everyone they like) and who didn't (everyone else).

[Guest]

The "competition" framing is bullshit and always will be within a society. Nothing happens without layers of social mediation. Young men are not "out competed". They're placed in a de facto jail and robbed of the opportunity to cultivate status, skill, experience, or really anything of value. Basically everything is only given today, nothing is won or earned. Most people make their preferences and biases plain in who they believe earned what's theirs (them and everyone they like) and who didn't (everyone else).

Good point on theory vs reality. I think this is an inevitable problem that all those who were given their position in life try to argue some kind of competition rhetoric in defense of the system that has rewarded them with their life style. I feel like this is where conservatives exist, staunch defenders of the regime. The small and petty who are content with their lot in life and defend the system that enables such petty things.

Anyway I wanted to ask you about developing sensitivity and channling bloodlust in the youth. Are these apposed positions or can they coexist? Is it simply difference classes of people, sensitive artist type vs hardened warrior or is their some kind of reconciliation between these types of people? Would sending the youth off to war stunt their sensitivity?

[anthony]

Good point on theory vs reality. I think this is an inevitable problem that all those who were given their position in life try to argue some kind of competition rhetoric in defense of the system that has rewarded them with their life style. I feel like this is where conservatives exist, staunch defenders of the regime. The small and petty who are content with their lot in life and defend the system that enables such petty things.

Anyway I wanted to ask you about developing sensitivity and channling bloodlust in the youth. Are these apposed positions or can they coexist? Is it simply difference classes of people, sensitive artist type vs hardened warrior or is their some kind of reconciliation between these types of people? Would sending the youth off to war stunt their sensitivity?

It's the conservative position, both of people who call themselves that, and those of a generally reactionary disposition towards our time (most leftists in most things too).

Sensitivity and bloodlust is an interesting question. And I really think the short answer is it depends. On a lot of things. It's late now, but tomorrow I think I'd like to give a proper answer. Maybe framed around Stanley Kubrick's Full Metal Jacket. One of my favourite movies, and one which I believe is deliberately exploring this question. Might even be its own thread. Someone get on me about this if I don't do it myself.

---

Preview and something to think about. Sorry about the funny embed. If it gives you trouble here's a direct link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH5R4tgGdDk

[august]

Being a boy in school and having your female peers fuck older men is humiliating.

Kill all paedos.

Ironically this shitpost has the most true essence of any post in this thread. We don't live in some sort of hypothetical society where men need to wait in order to "gain honor" or whatever it is that Varg believes. Trying to enforce the social norms of antiquity onto the psychological framework of the modern day just leads to immense suffering. All women in first-world countries now are fundamentally broken and dating some autist twice her age that browses /fit/ is not going to change that. Forcing some kid in his teens to be without any relationship experience until his mid 20s is not going to create a functioning member of modern society, it's just going to create someone with a completely warped sense of self. In the past there used to be a social framework that would allow a young boy some sort of hope or another outlet for "becoming a man" but now there isn't even anything that remotely resembles a clan structure which could provide meaning beyond the satisfaction of immediate passions. Life is a completely social experience and no amount of autistic rationalization or abstraction can take being an incel as a teenager into something beyond just being a beta male, literally. Also, though it's not of immediate relevance, love matters a lot more when you're younger and it's cruel to deprive the youth of that. Speaking for myself, I'm literally soulless and can't view any woman I start a relationship with as anything but a utility. This is no way to live.

Very well said. I agree, and I don't even think that we need to classify some of what would be the desired social norms as dating as far back as antiquity necessarily. I would venture to say that it was only within the last ~two centuries at most that any dominant society even cared about taking the opinions of women on such matters into account. That is to say that, until very recently, everyone always understood that leaving sex/relationships to the judgment of women was the surest path to social suicide. The events of the last century alone have been enough to throw many things into disarray. This, in part, is why I think the situation is all the more uniquely unbearable to a lot of young guys; the corpse of the last society where these norms were generally still somewhat present isn't even cold yet. And of course, what was female sexual liberation if not the satisfaction of immediate passions?

It doesn't help that social media for normies essentially just functions as a feedback loop to reaffirm very artificial validations about themselves. To me, this has only amplified the problem that you mention of Western women being fundamentally broken; there is a massive disconnect between how they view themselves in light of this constant, false validation and how they actually exist and are perceived in the real world by men that they, quite insanely, believe don't meet their standards. And as you basically allude to, when you see this as the world around you, and when it feels like you are one of the few remaining people that aren't constantly walking around in a total daze, how can you not become stone cold, so to speak?

When all of life is rendered and declared meaningless in the greater scheme of things the disadvantages and humiliations of youth become torture for the sake of it, work becomes toil, not having is pure deprivation.

F. Roger Devlin has, what at least I find to be, an interesting quote in his book Sexual Utopia in Power where he is discussing this same sort of transgression of social frameworks:

"Instead I am reminded of the sad characters from the pages of Chekhov: sleepwalking through life, forever hoping that tomorrow things will somehow be changed for the better as they blindly allow opportunities for lasting happiness to slip through their fingers. But this is merely the natural outcome of conceiving of a human life as a series of revocable and inconsequential choices. We are, indeed, protected from certain risks, but we have correspondingly little to gain; we have fewer worries but no great aspirations. The price we pay for eliminating the dangers of intimacy is eliminating its seriousness."

I think it puts quite nicely a similar kind of idea of this meaninglessness that you both describe.

[Reverend Moon Immortal]

I don't ask for state mandated gf. But I would like to hear a good answer for why young men shouldn't. I don't think society has much of an answer. Only aggressive and baseless libtard moralism which is more abusive and enslavement oriented than anything christianity ever asked of us. There's no real promise of anything good in life anymore, just what you can chance into. It's amazing to me what people will tolerate.

(I checked real quick and did not see a state-mandated GF thread)
I Disagree to state-mandated gfs(state forced monogamy) because It would be dysgenic.(this is under the assumption that it would be an egalitarian policy) It’s at most a convenient way to guarantee loyalty from the average man, you gave him his wife, but it’s main point isn’t Eugenic. 

The lower men should be given communal Whore to share amounts themselves(I feel like they already have this). Higher up in humanity men should be guaranteed a wife because of their ability to contribute and keep the boat floating. The highest forms of humanity should be given harems of young teen girls who are the highest genetic material. 

I think for men like me we must live in a virtuous manner due to our sentience, thus we are forced to spend time satisfy this inclination else we suffer from moral sickness. Lower types of men have no such inclinations and thus can spend their whole lives “chasing pussy”, and I feel like with women they will have sex with who ever is available and gives them attention. Thus by the time the virtuous man has attained some satisfaction cultivating his soul he is only met with used whores. No, the government should have a monopoly on women and should give them out according to perceived worth.

Imagine this, I live a virtuous life and suddenly on my door I get a letter from the eugenic council saying they value my genetics and wish for me to reproduce thus they have given me a harem. I think this is the highest social pleasure one could experience, to have ones worth vindicated by the highest of men in a society. 

Also I think having to chase after women is very demeaning, they are lower forms of life, I should either be able to buy them or am given them as a gift. Also the government should educate my future wives in music, poetry, and all other sorts of pleasuring things.