Ageing: Hope, Cope and Rope
#21
(02-16-2023, 02:30 AM)Corvid Wrote:
(02-11-2023, 07:38 PM)anthony Wrote:
(02-11-2023, 03:27 PM)Guest Wrote: Since people in this thread are talking about ageing,do you think rejuvenation tech(both cosmetically and biologically) will be the most feasible solution to declining birth rates /population ? 

https://twitter.com/EvilVizier/status/15...1663114240

https://twitter.com/EvilVizier/status/15...8097075201

https://twitter.com/EvilVizier/status/15...3910384641

https://twitter.com/EvilVizier/status/15...8392995840

"Declining birth rates" themselves aren't a real problem. If you basically take the Japan approach and ignore the magical scam thinking that this means you NEED 500 trillion niggers it's just a self correcting trend. Rejuvenation tech would be nice to have. But it's not an answer to this particular problem.

You still need to support them in their old age, which can be a problem if productivity doesn't keep up at a certain level and it becomes more challenging the faster the TFR plummets, see the Korean demographic pyramid. The good news is that Western productivity in agriculture and manufacturing significantly outpaces productivity in services, which is exactly why the proportion of people working in services continues to grow as the other sectors get more labor efficient. We could imagine that a technological renaissance (such as the one we are seeing today in machine learning models!) could overcome the lost productivity due to declining native population, combined with eugenic policies for the maintenance of social capital.

"TFR" question is genuinely complicated and relates to issues of material, deliberate culture-dissolution, political wills, the old "line must always go up" meme, and differences in behavior across ethnicities. A major and obvious point of BAP's book is that lower tendencies of life produce at greater rates than the finer. Simply put, Africans, the Global South, etc., when granted an equal/approaching quantity of material, are due to outbreed Europeans because the former requires a lower standard of life to do so.

The problem is at base political imo. I'm sure everyone here is aware that our System claims, owing to ostensibly "passive" factors, any decline across things like State GDP, lower-class labor force, population integers, "TFR" are to be read as CAUSES to import more nigger, etc. But a society/culture will "self-douche" when left to its own devices; when people feel a real tugging at their material and living standards they tend towards actions to correct their conditions. The issue lies in how to "self-contain" while effectively resisting bully factors like America, Global Capital, etc.

Any econ or poli theory guys' input is very welcome.
#22
(02-16-2023, 03:44 AM)GraphWalkWithMe Wrote:
(02-16-2023, 02:30 AM)Corvid Wrote:
(02-11-2023, 07:38 PM)anthony Wrote:
(02-11-2023, 03:27 PM)Guest Wrote: Since people in this thread are talking about ageing,do you think rejuvenation tech(both cosmetically and biologically) will be the most feasible solution to declining birth rates /population ? 

https://twitter.com/EvilVizier/status/15...1663114240

https://twitter.com/EvilVizier/status/15...8097075201

https://twitter.com/EvilVizier/status/15...3910384641

https://twitter.com/EvilVizier/status/15...8392995840

"Declining birth rates" themselves aren't a real problem. If you basically take the Japan approach and ignore the magical scam thinking that this means you NEED 500 trillion niggers it's just a self correcting trend. Rejuvenation tech would be nice to have. But it's not an answer to this particular problem.

You still need to support them in their old age, which can be a problem if productivity doesn't keep up at a certain level and it becomes more challenging the faster the TFR plummets, see the Korean demographic pyramid. The good news is that Western productivity in agriculture and manufacturing significantly outpaces productivity in services, which is exactly why the proportion of people working in services continues to grow as the other sectors get more labor efficient. We could imagine that a technological renaissance (such as the one we are seeing today in machine learning models!) could overcome the lost productivity due to declining native population, combined with eugenic policies for the maintenance of social capital.

"TFR" question is genuinely complicated and relates to issues of material, deliberate culture-dissolution, political wills, the old "line must always go up" meme, and differences in behavior across ethnicities. A major and obvious point of BAP's book is that lower tendencies of life produce at greater rates than the finer. Simply put, Africans, the Global South, etc., when granted an equal/approaching quantity of material, are due to outbreed Europeans because the former requires a lower standard of life to do so.

The problem is at base political imo. I'm sure everyone here is aware that our System claims, owing to ostensibly "passive" factors, any decline across things like State GDP, lower-class labor force, population integers, "TFR" are to be read as CAUSES to import more nigger, etc. But a society/culture will "self-douche" when left to its own devices; when people feel a real tugging at their material and living standards they tend towards actions to correct their conditions. The issue lies in how to "self-contain" while effectively resisting bully factors like America, Global Capital, etc.

Any econ or poli theory guys' input is very welcome.

Indeed, "TFR question" is infinity niggers because it being a major issue relies on infinity growth, particularly to support a welfare state. Not that declining TFR would be a good thing, per se, if there was no welfare state; it would still present economic challenges and productivity would slip ceteris paribus. But a lot of it is built on the fears of business about perpetual returns, and the need for a tax base to support the government, so there is certainly some basis for powerful elements in a society to prop population growth up with infinity niggers.
#23
Meredith Wrote:For myself: I have always had a great fear of ageing, and it likely won't ever truly leave me. I look quite young for my age (almost 25), but even now I feel I notice slight changes since, say, 2015. I'm at the "cope" stage.

Looks only matter in relation to other people - it's about how you're perceived and remembered. The reason why the passing of your image upsets you so much, is because they haven't made a lasting impression on anyone. All looks you had (however much it may have been) has been slowly eroding and dissipating in the winds, and you're not (I'm assuming) in a lasting relationship amongst people you love, raising children in your image, who in turn will forever remember and carry on yours. The worst pain of fading looks is having wasted them. You will be old, decrepit, alone and nobody who stumbles on you will ever know what charming locks or sparkly eyes you once might've had. It has left no imprint whatsoever, might have as well been a dream.

The Supreme Gentleman said something to that extent (paraphrasing): "What's the point of seeing the perfect sunset over the sea if you've got nobody to share it with?"
Same applies to looks.

Abe Simpson was also on point: "I've wasted all my youth and my looks."
And elsewhere, ominously: "It'll happen to you."

Excessive fear of aging is only due to our permanent bachelor culture. We're having less sex and children than ever, and the relationships we form don't last. It's obvious why something as ephemeral as youthful looks became the only selling point.
#24
Normally life unfolds in stages. It has a morning, midday, afternoon, and night. At each stage there will be a need for a reevaluation of one's earlier values since the psychological program of the preceding stage will no longer be effective. Some kind of change will need to occur for a new or opposing viewpoint to be adopted, and within each phase of life there should be some kind of defining drama that is linked with earlier points of life along with those yet to come. Together the themes of life comprise a kind of urphenomenon of the individual's existence. This can be seen in the Hero's Journey motif:

[Image: a32ae6930f1ea957630d469cd5ab3bcf.jpg]

Note that this is not merely thematic but would seem to be a universal biological or energetic progression. I was just reading Stan Grof, who argues that everyone has an unconscious memory of the stages of gestation and birth which is relived in the corresponding emotional intensities or physical sensations of later life experience (and he thinks these stages are what reappear in the imagery of psychedelic experience). The first stage is amniotic unity, followed in order by the pressure of uterine contraction, forceful emergence through the birth canal, and finally birth/expulsion from the womb. Each of these are said to be accompanied by particular emotions, physical sensations, and mythological imagery. In different models of the psyche these stages are often translated into some kind of numerology like 1 = unity, 2 = opposition, 3 = conjunction, 4 = completeness.

Anyway, the point I wish to make is that I think it is possible or perhaps necessary for certain individuals to transcend this schema. There will always be a nagging dissatisfaction from being confined to a certain perspective and having to keep certain other questions out of one's consciousness. And whether one calls it a transvaluation of all values, gnosis, enlightenment, etc. (not to equate these), there is a always a kind of cosmic regeneration that takes place with transcendence - a new earth around a new sun. Now the previous categories make no sense. Zarathustra is a child as an old man; a conscious and divine child born of an adult.

As it relates to your fear of physical deterioration, I think one arrives at an understanding that this specific process has no meaning in itself. Something dies only so that something else can pass through; the way up and down are one and the same.
#25
KimKardashian Wrote:Looks only matter in relation to other people - it's about how you're perceived and remembered. The reason why the passing of your image upsets you so much, is because they haven't made a lasting impression on anyone.

I think this is quite true so far as one's physical and social appearance goes. People on average do not especially feel as if their self-worth declines with age, because self-worth is mostly socially determined. However, I think this superficial relational aspect of aging ends up disguising a lot of real physical and mental decrepitude.

I haven't been able to stop noticing this after first observing my parents becoming clumsier and mentally slower, and I have come to believe that a person begins to lose their edge mentally and physically in their early 20s. There's not much to argue here since it's based on my personal observations, but what is commonly considered to be "maturity" looks to me like an escalating tiredness in every sense. Knowledge/experience can compensate for this by improving efficiency and decision making, but it's possible for some people to avoid learning and they will still get tired as they age. Professional gamers usually end up quitting well before they turn 30. Millennials seem unable to play the same games that younger generations enjoy (I don't think it's just a matter of nostalgia). Older generations generally don't bother with gaming at all, because they have "matured", or because focusing on the game is too mentally taxing?

Going back to the social aspect again, while older men with families seem often fine if they can avoid divorce, I have not been able to find any modern example of a single, childless man older than me (mid 20s) who seems happy, mentally healthy and isn't medicated or an alcoholic or something. Age seems to also wear people's personalities and moral strength down as they cling to one another for comfort with increasing desperation, and while I am otherwise unconcerned about not having a partner, I am afraid of the prospect of growing older without having my own wife and children to rely on. If anyone has any hopes or copes relating to this in particular I would appreciate you sharing.
#26
Mason Hall-McCullough Wrote:I think this is quite true so far as one's physical and social appearance goes. People on average do not especially feel as if their self-worth declines with age, because self-worth is mostly socially determined. However, I think this superficial relational aspect of aging ends up disguising a lot of real physical and mental decrepitude.

Aging, you trade fluid intelligence for crystallized. You lose flexibility, but gain experience (and status).

A lot of "maturity" seems Norwooding cope yeah. "Oh I remember back when I cared about women" or "oh I used to get into angry arguments" etc, "....but now I'm wiser" yeah or maybe balding, demoralized and low T. But I wouldn't worry about it. Just don't Norwood.

>videogames
You're forgetting, it works both ways - zoomers don't play millenial shit either. It's mostly a cultural shift (an uptick in gayness and ADHD).

Honestly if you put yourself to good use, you probably won't have time to worry (and you'll be staving off decline). Speaking of families, my grandmother was highly active in 80s, but went through exponential decline as soon as she was unable to do gardening due to some family quarrell over heritance. She remained at home and that's when all went downhill. Personally I believe that if you keep yourself engaged, then you'll have no problems: enthusiasm, interest, good spirits, it will all keep your shit together. One thing's for sure - don't end up in a retirement home. But everyone already knows that.
#27
(12-27-2023, 06:37 AM)Mason Hall-McCullough Wrote: I am afraid of the prospect of growing older without having my own wife and children to rely on. If anyone has any hopes or copes relating to this in particular I would appreciate you sharing.

First, I think that as a man, not "having [your] own wife and children to rely on" should not be a fear. Male polar bears are solitary and spend the winter months completely alone in the icy cold. White man is what he is because he can, and often must, walk alone while others cannot. 

Second, try poshmaxxing:

[Image: JBqHIg7.jpeg]
God helps those who help himself; I approve of that idea myself.
#28
Quote:I am otherwise unconcerned about not having a partner, I am afraid of the prospect of growing older without having my own wife and children to rely on. If anyone has any hopes or copes relating to this in particular I would appreciate you sharing.

I don’t have any good original advice about finding a wife, that’s more in Aidan and Jim’s wheelhouse, but as for having children to take care of you, I have some advice.

1. Have as many children as you can and as young as you can so you’re not putting all of your eggs in one basket. Children need money and attention from their father, but their success in life is due more to genetic recombination between you and your wife so the more kids you have the more likely it is you produce or worthy heir or a genius who surpasses you. If you only have one kid then he might be a cripple and it’s completely unreasonable to put the burden of taking care of elderly parents on one person.

2. Your mindset should be that you should sacrifice yourself to your children. The idea that children should serve their parents is why nonwhites (including supposed high IQ Asians) are still so backwards and living in mudhuts. Children are the future and it’s retarded to sacrifice the future for the present. Be more like a spider that gets eaten by its young and less like a vampire that bleeds its own children dry. Boomers ruined The West because they think children are a piggy bank and shake them down for trillions in “social security” and medical expenses so they can be grotesquely fat and spend their children’s rightful inheritance on boats and fucking around watching Fox News. The real trad way that whites treated their children was kindness, self sacrifice, and imparting wisdom and generational wealth, not the boomer idea of beating and circumcising kids, forcing them to slave away at public school and McDonald’s, leaving them nothing.
#29
Thanks for your responses. I agree that I had a poor conception of why a person should raise children, so I found discussion of that helpful.

I would disagree on using China as an example of children being sacrificed for the sake of parents: while making kids do manual labor is a classic third world strategy that's probably prevalent in rural China, the parents of Asian strivers almost always have sacrificed everything they could in the hope that their child found academic success and becomes a doctor or engineer (and there must be a lot of failed ones who don't even make it to the West). I think the problem here is that due to their culture the parents have the wrong conception of what a good life looks like for their children. They sacrifice everything just to create another conformist worker ant (with an above-average salary!) that will never innovate or transcend its rigid social order. The solution is to strive for the right ideal, sacrifice (maybe not quite) everything to raise offspring that are not just educated but also healthy and moral. I'm sure you already understand this but since you mentioned beatings it's worth pointing out that appropriate discipline (interpret how you want) is a form of kindness.

Your point about genetic recombination is interesting and I agree.

Should I fail to start a family, maybe it won't be that hard to walk alone while avoiding normie pitfalls such as not exercising or becoming an alcoholic. A lot of the examples I had in mind seemed like they were suffering from an invisible social deprivation sickness that I have not personally experienced, but maybe they were tormenting themselves in a desperate effort to change their situation, I don't know. I'm sure anyone with an independent mindset is going to find living independently a lot easier. At the very end it'd probably be best to die alone in your home rather than be abused by immigrant nurses in a retirement home, though.
#30
BillyONare Wrote:Your mindset should be that you should sacrifice yourself to your children. The idea that children should serve their parents is why nonwhites (including supposed high IQ Asians) are still so backwards and living in mudhuts. Children are the future and it’s retarded to sacrifice the future for the present. Be more like a spider that gets eaten by its young and less like a vampire that bleeds its own children dry. Boomers ruined The West because they think children are a piggy bank and shake them down for trillions in “social security” and medical expenses so they can be grotesquely fat and spend their children’s rightful inheritance on boats and fucking around watching Fox News. The real trad way that whites treated their children was kindness, self sacrifice, and imparting wisdom and generational wealth, not the boomer idea of beating and circumcising kids, forcing them to slave away at public school and McDonald’s, leaving them nothing.

Very true. There is much more to be said on how the eugenic custom of dedicating oneself to good progeny has been totally inverted over the past couple of centuries. The enshrinment of pensionfaggotry is one of the most detestable instruments of our time. Boomers feel themselves entitled to sap away the vital energy of their own descendants, which their forebears would have willingly relinquished to the youth. A total reversal of what "entitlement" as "inheritance" was meant to achieve. Reminds me of a recent "wholesome" youtube video about fake German bus stops, meant to "protect" retarded olds from wandering away instead of dutifully rotting as welfare lobotomites. On this, revuslion speaks for itself.
An Ancient and Unbound Evil Awakens...



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