Americans vs Europeans
#1
I'd like to hear some thoughts on the basic cultural assumptions and behaviors of Americans vs Europeans generally, which includes not only western Europe/EU but - to a lesser but still significant extent - the whole continent as far as Russia, as well as the Commonwealth.

My very biased perspective as an American looking in (and as one greatly unimpressed and believing Islamic conquest of that continent to be natural, righteous, and desirable, even if apparently unlikely - but let's be civil):

1) Irreligion. While you can find British kids doing the meme Catholicism thing, it's just not a real, living element of society as it is in America, which even our liberals are forced to contend with to some extent. Where it exists in Europe it comes across much more like a historical badge or artifact than actual sociological consideration in navigating the people and their values. On a deeper level I think Americans still have the residual understanding of themselves as a divine/elect nation, in which they place their distinct pride and faith, whereas Europeans (and maybe this is EU influence) have more of a faith in humanity as get-along international effort. There is no Great Force behind them, just the tinkering of already-triumphant Man.

2) Internalized End-of-History. Europe is more thoroughly focused on the retrenchment of their established "peace, prosperity, and progress" in civilizational outlook than in the tumultuous, violence-prone America, where the push-and-pull gives a sense of still being able to shift in a variety of directions. Europeans today are civilization refiners, not civilization builders. America is still a land of spiritual violence and creativity, whereas, the feeling is, Europe exists in the past tense, something already accomplished on which its inheritors can merely suck peacefully as a babe, having reached their end-point, a senescent museum or corpse waiting to be steamrolled by something actually alive.

2) Refinement. Self-impressed regarding "culture", supposed civilizational accomplishment (in contrast to a brutish state of nature), intellectualism/philosophy, "cuisine" as opposed to meat and bread, literal museums as center of pride and identity, etc, all of which Americans find gay, and even our liberals are made to be at least slightly ashamed or self-conscious about. America is closer historically to the frontier, in which it still takes pride as a nation of (in their own eyes) warrior savages. More tangibly, and drawing together the previous two, for all its "culture", what cultural products does Europe produce, today, or in the last 50 years? The past isn't real, says the American, what have you done?

This contrast is more present in the American heartland, as coastal liberals are basically quasi-Europeans (and I am suspicious of some of you city-loving wignats concerned with "Western civilization" - pls acknowledge Kaczynski, find God, and know that civilization is a crippling degrading thing given by demons, it is not your fruit or friend... I'm going beyond the topic).

These points may also apply much less to somewhere like Australia, with its own (lesser) frontier-influenced culture, and some nuance is necessary in looking at the British and Germans (genuinely dead, defeated peoples), vs the French who have always sort of been weird snobs, and could still go places for all I know. Anyway, I'm not here only to spew libel, but to spur discussion.

What future is there for Europe, from European perspective? What spirit is there in the people that can go anywhere?
#2
>and as one greatly unimpressed and believing Islamic conquest of that continent to be natural, righteous, and desirable, even if apparently unlikely - but let's be civil
>pls acknowledge Kaczynski, find God, and know that civilization is a crippling degrading thing given by demons, it is not your fruit or friend

blasphemous, retarded niggerfaggot
#3
Quote:blasphemous, retarded niggerfaggot

I am truly honored.

https://webm.red/cIaK.webm

(04-08-2022, 02:47 AM)ToubouBogomilist Wrote: One difference is that Europeans would not say something this retarded

Yes, because they're too refined. Being brutish and retarded is a tradeoff we have to deal with in being rugged mountain men. Can't have everything!
#4
White Americans are generally more intelligent than Europeans, OP is just a "natural brute beast, made to be taken and destroyed, speaking evil of the things that he understands not; and shall utterly perish in his own corruption"
#5
Quote:White Americans are generally more intelligent than Europeans, OP is just a "natural brute beast, made to be taken and destroyed, speaking evil of the things that he understands not; and shall utterly perish in his own corruption"


Ah yes, I must apologize for offending your cultural-civilizational affiliations, the basis of eternal salvation. (Behold the capital-c "Christian"!)
#6
seethe harder bitch nigger
#7
Quote:seethe harder bitch nigger


I am in fact having a lot of fun, mashallah friend.

(Sorry for the going-on to any readers who are less amused. Feel free to return to seriousness at any time.)
#8
(04-08-2022, 03:55 AM)Opossum Wrote: (Sorry for the going-on to any readers who are less amused. Feel free to return to seriousness at any time.)

Just going to say that you can fix the guest quotes breaking by copying the text of their post and then deleting it, then creating a new quote box in your post and pasting it. Makes threads easier to read.
#9
Western Europeans are becoming sclerotic. "Been there, done that" sort of thing regarding their collective existence (Meds got to this point even earlier). Mental senescence. Too much Lindy, I guess. The beast is falling asleep. America isn't too far behind, though - don't get too cocky.

Eastern Europe is different. There's still space, room to grow, and while the "frontier spirit" isn't the same, we're more the doormen of Europe. Population density might have something to do with it, though. This might even be the cause of the enmity between Russia and America - they're pretty similar. They'd be even more had the Revolution not happened - but it is what it is.

Confounding things is that European civilization is like a decentralized nesting doll (unlike the asian one which pretty reliably remains centered on China). There's a crapheap of sub-cultures and sub-civilizations, differing "anchors" of the whole thing. If we had to pull a Spengler, I'd say America is the "culture" that anchors the Western section of Europe, and therefore heads it. However, it's now transforming into "civilization" itself, fruiting, but falling off. The next European leading culture might be Russia, switching the East in becoming the dominant European anchor. or maybe the cycle ends here (doubt it, ~2025 is only the end of a half-cycle).
#10
(04-08-2022, 04:11 AM)Svevlad Wrote: Western Europeans are becoming sclerotic. "Been there, done that" sort of thing regarding their collective existence (Meds got to this point even earlier). Mental senescence. Too much Lindy, I guess. The beast is falling asleep. America isn't too far behind, though - don't get too cocky.

Eastern Europe is different. There's still space, room to grow, and while the "frontier spirit" isn't the same, we're more the doormen of Europe. Population density might have something to do with it, though. This might even be the cause of the enmity between Russia and America - they're pretty similar. They'd be even more had the Revolution not happened - but it is what it is.

Confounding things is that European civilization is like a decentralized nesting doll (unlike the asian one which pretty reliably remains centered on China). There's a crapheap of sub-cultures and sub-civilizations, differing "anchors" of the whole thing. If we had to pull a Spengler, I'd say America is the "culture" that anchors the Western section of Europe, and therefore heads it. However, it's now transforming into "civilization" itself, fruiting, but falling off. The next European leading culture might be Russia, switching the East in becoming the dominant European anchor. or maybe the cycle ends here (doubt it, ~2025 is only the end of a half-cycle).

"Been there done that" is a good phrase for the European attitude regarding life generally, yes.

Agree that America can only be saved through fire, the difference I emphasize only being that there is still an underlying spirit to be saved, something to emerge from the ashes.

I've never been to Slavland but from what I do know you're right that Russia and America and similar in a lot of ways. Similar levels of religious adherence and associated social attitudes, similar levels of societal problems (though not the same problems), similar ongoing willingness to invade weak countries in the interests of National Security, both geographically large due to relatively recent settler colonization, and so on.

"Western European civilization", by itself, is now anchored in Brussels, but of course only superficially, it's like they're trying to be a "thing" but just... aren't. As you said, in terms of real geopolitical power, cultural consumption, and so on, they're very clearly an American client entity, but at the same time you'll find them laughably holding themselves up by their (historical) art and literature, trying to deny this reality. How are they not embarrassed?

I would argue that if ever America "fruited and fell off" from Europe, it's not recently, but much earlier. Remember that after the initial wave of settlers came in the 1620s it was 150 years of isolation before the revolution, and then another half-century at least before we saw another major wave of immigration from ever-interconnected Europe - 200 years of development before America even really comes onto the world stage. Most here probably understand this already but it's worth repeating.

While Islamic inheritance of western Europe would be more deserved in their sheer degradation, eastern re-centering does seem more realistic, I suppose.
#11
I didn't mean "fruit and fall off" as separation from Europe, more like that America is a branch of the European tree - the previous branches bore fruit, and "fell off" in the jargonic sense - they no longer neither bloom, nor fruit. Such is the destiny of America if things continue on the current trajectory.

Seeing white civilization as a tree, and every "anchor" as an branch works really well. In every period, another branch is chosen to bear flowers and fruit, and so on and so forth.

Interesting anecdote: Asians, both of the yellow and of the brown variety, consider "the West" to include the Islamic civilization. Not sure if it is really.
#12
Most things are "West" to the Chinese and their sphere. In 西遊記, The West refers to India. When we speak of The West today, we mean those culturally downstream from Leo III's heretical crowning of Charlemagne. Looser meanings grow progressively outwards (eastwards) from there.
#13
we shall see. There are 2 "Europes" - the North and the South. Historical circumstance made East Europe be an intermediary, similarly to France at it's inception.

Russia is interesting because it is a true hybrid state/culture - ethnically Northern (no amount of teenager German Slav hate will change the fact they're just half a milimeter away on a global FST map, basically overlapping), but with a Southern religion and government style, last bastion of Old Europe in the North. We shall be monitoring further developments...
#14
“I agree with Guest.”
#15
The frontier spirit is unique to America because only America had sustained conflict with an indigenous population for a long time in recent history. Would probably be good for us if we still had barbarians at the border. This also explains a lot of American gun culture that is baffling to Europeans (not my idea, @corsair21c on twitter first brought this to my attention). I don't know much about Eastern Europe but my impression is that any developments there will be limited as long as America continues to be powerful enough to meddle in their internal affairs. The Turks I've met are maybe the most arrogant, chauvinistic race I've ever encountered (this is not necessarily bad), so perhaps we will see the rise of neo-Ottoman empire at some point in the future.
#16
[Image: Elf.jpg]
Americans view Europeans basically like fantasy Elves i.e. more beautiful, healther, more intelligent, wiser, more "harmonic with nature". Essentially the same racial bonuses to character stats that Elves in Dungeons & Dragons would have. To the extent that these are true or not, this is how most Americans see them. The reasons for this are:

1. Lower obesity
2. Lower age of consent (no one says this, but they believe it deep down)
3. Idea that they can make a living working 20 hours per week (not true at all in general, but Americans truly believe it)
4. No black people, no crime, less of a welfare burden due to the black people (no one says it but everyone believes it deep down)
5. Cozy fractal Lindy architecture due to their cities being old and no black people (We hate Lindy, but there is a beauty to it, I can't deny)
6. More beautiful and enjoyable cities as a result of 1 through 5. Perception that it is Paradise on Earth where you can work 20 hours as a barista and fuck physically fit jailbait.

Most of these are either highly overrated or not true. In general Europe is a socialist shithole and they would have to work Chinese hours to make the same as the average American.

Americans also have a lot of FAKE reasons for believing Europe is superior, for example muh Universal Healthcare or muh socialism. Not even leftists believe this. Leftists are stupid but not *that* stupid. If you are not sure whether a leftist is stupid or lying, 99% of the time they are lying. Any American leftist extolling the virtues of European socialism secretly wants to have romances with underage girls.
#17
Leftists 100% believe that. Even vaguely 'moderate' normies do. Very very few people genuinely lie about what they believe. Europeans also believe that. They love bragging about their free healthcare even when admit it doesn't work very well and they can't even use it. Moldbug had an idea that progressivism is like an invasive species in much of Europe, whereas America has a better immune system for it, being it's natural habitat.
Regardless of if this is true, I think many Europeans like getting one over on Americans in this way as a sort of revenge for America's cultural/political dominance. It's a big case of "Super/Anti-Americanism" ("we fulfill the democratic ideals more than you do").

In terms of the online RW, the splits I've noticed have to do with white nationalism vs particular nationalism, and whether "white" is a legitimate category. I think that's probably settled on this forum for the most part. The other is the related topic of "brother wars".
#18
Europe is the land of true-believers, yes. They do leftism themselves, without the catalyst of Jews, and without the cynicism of American leftists. The "immune system" metaphor sounds decent. Our leftism was created to wage cultural war in the US, when imported elsewhere that dynamic is missing and they just innocently swallow it whole. Sweden of course would be the most extreme example, but you also get cases, due to their innocent true-belief, of them not going along with certain things that are transmitted by the elsewhere endemic and associated corruption, i.e. the covid stuff.
#19
In my eyes there is very little difference between the two in any meaningful way. Mass media killed national character and if mass media is created in America then I guess we are all American. How pozz'd a country is in my view is based entirely on its dosage (its ubiquity), some take longer to resist but once they do its population become global citizens or - Americans.

I am probably wrong however and it is because I'm British that I find the OP to be utter coal.
'acknowledge Kaczynski, find God, and know that civilization is a crippling degrading thing given by demons'
Even on Amarna I have to see this? Pls be troll.
#20
Kachinski (polish orthography sucks and there is no reason to preserve it in an english context) was also a literal MKUltra subject...



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