Anime is actually not that good
#21
(04-04-2023, 06:05 AM)Guest Wrote: There’s a bigger problem with overwesternization of anime (Cyberpunk Edgerunners, Scott Pilgrim anime) than there is with “overappealing with the most gross aspects of Japanese culture” nowadays.

I agree.

(04-04-2023, 06:05 AM)Guest Wrote: If you haven’t watched at least 500 anime, you aren’t really qualified to talk about it.

I disagree. The only thing that matters is understanding the spirit— which can be understood through Japanese movies, games, etc. It is a running current in what they do, and it's the part that matters. As Anthony said, habitually consuming anime does not increase your ability to understand it. Your point would only be true after mine, someone who already gets it who has then seen 500 anime, may understand minutia better than someone who has not, but without first capturing the spirit they will never capture the minutia.

(04-05-2023, 07:14 AM)a system is failing Wrote: First thing I object to is the reduction of anime to a synonym of "beauty" and the West to a synonym of "ugly". I'm warning you, you don't want to do this, there is nothing worse than when people reduce all quality down to the simple capacity to be pleasing, or any other SPECIFIC trait, this is how you end up with kitsch, and an artistic atmosphere dominated by kitsch, well, in many ways this is a big problem with our media and entertainment here in the West.

Although it is often as simple as: Japan = Pretty, West = Ugly, this is true and I second that this be avoided for the exact reasons stated.

(04-05-2023, 11:27 AM)parsifal Wrote:
(04-03-2023, 05:42 AM)PIGSAW Wrote: The aspect of "sociability" within "anime" is the most important one here. It is the difference between "Weeb" and "Weeaboo". A "weeb" is a poser, next in line of "fake nerds" following fake gamers:
Weeaboo are cats, who've abandoned the false world for the real one:

[fascinating images]

"Weebs" are spiritual peasant conservatives who have become aware that "liking anime" can be a stand-in for a personality, who are now attracted to signaling (this is the only thing normalfags do, everything is performative which is why everything they touch turns to shit). A "weeb" is then easily understood as someone obsessed with the idea of being SEEN as a weeaboo, rather than being one.

interesting thread. the only thing i want to add is an observation on these weebs: you would think that someone who is obsessed with anime and anime characters would want to imitate them in his or her style of dress, but in practice they mostly wear things like graphic tees with anime-based designed or adorn their belongings with numerous anime-related pins and stickers (even when it's rather easy to dress like an anime character). those images you posted are a perfect example of the inverse; people who see themselves in the same light as their obsession and wish to embody anime rather than signal it.

I'm cherry-picking, obviously (though you might be surprised how much quality there was, especially due to photography and fashion trends)— but I'm not doing so with the intent to lie (I'm not), just to render with actual (now) historical artifacts the exact point you describe perfectly.

The "weeb" as I described it did exist back then as well, teenage Millennials in graphic t's with hats n' shit covered pins (though due to zeitgeist, mainly graphic design trends, all of this junk was a -lot- cooler). The key difference to me, is that this was considered "broke". The pictures I posted are a (very small compared to what I'm drawing from) highlight reel of what everyone wanted to achieve, to be— an anime character in real life (music video trends of the time greatly assisted the existence and proliferation of this desire).

Again, the issue is one of signaling. To signal to the source, to want to be like the spirit, the source, the creator, whatever— this is basically oppressed now, due to social 'development' (degradation) which rewards posers (this was an issue back then as well, but because anime was "new" in the West, it was the best it could be due to scale) because of unnatural (though most likely unavoidable) subcultural expansion (which becomes erosion).
(I primarily blame Tumblr for this, the mainstreaming of academic life onto too-broke-for-college Gen Y and Z (which should've been what saved them). Obsession with "media literacy", having to "denounce" artists because they're "bad people", on and on and on.. such tedious faggotry.)

Y'know, "I liked anime before it went mainstream!"
As always, the "hipster" is correct.

The best example I have 'on hand' (in memory) of a Millennial "covered in pins faggot" is not anime (and I'm pretty sure these furfags are Xennial anyways), but aesthetically it's close enough (not to anime, but to 'fandom culture' as a distinct and repeating aesthetic/subculture, she does have a Naruto Akamaru satchel (not that Naruto is a good example of anime, it's always been normalfag shit, though it does have 'anime' inside of it), probably from Hot Topic, though she doesn't like that because it's "anime" but because it's "a dog bag"):



This is more-or-less what "broke" anime fans looked like (but again, better, because anime shit was edgier and underground, which attracted better/weirder artists), the ones who weren't pretty or creative enough to 'embody the spirit' as you said.



The less attractive one is F2M now, shocker!

(04-07-2023, 07:16 AM)Guest Wrote: I agree, anime is overrated. I liked it when I was a teen but as I rewatch them ( due to a lack of good anime ) and as I grow and become more intelligent and sensitive I realize anime was never all that good.

You have become insensitive and mistaken it for growth (or mistook that you were ever sensitive in the first place).

Gb2/bar & enjoy "gf", faggot.

(04-09-2023, 01:46 PM)Hamamelis Wrote: Ever since I've saw my first anime at age 8 or so (Dragon Ball), the most striking thing to me was how badly it compares to the mangas. Apart from high effort japanese animation, anime seem to be mostly driven by the desire to reduce production cost as much as humanly (bugmanly) possible.

This is an important point. When I was a teen/early 20's I primarily sought out OVA, ONA, movies, and odd series (like the ones I posted) or experimental shorts which were notably higher effort/quality (and with more distinct styles, i.e., higher artistic value). I always looked down on the people who would watch "seasonals" or follow extremely long series (One Piece, Naruto, etc.) because they were not bothered by the lack of quality in these things, so I (correctly) considered them to be posers (although the Asians, particularly Jungle, who liked these things were fine, because they had a natural + to "anime" logic).

(04-09-2023, 01:46 PM)Hamamelis Wrote: That there is a whole subculture in the West who identifies by their consoomption of anime, and that they scoff at Western animation (like Rick & Morty, to name a controversial example), has always struck me as laughable.

Correct.

(04-09-2023, 01:46 PM)Hamamelis Wrote: In the aughts, I suspected that this is mostly a function of anime being a niche, exotic interest that had synergies with being pathologically online in a time when this was still uncommon. It has now been normified and even 'woodified.

Also correct.

(04-09-2023, 01:46 PM)Hamamelis Wrote: To be clear, all the Ghiblis I've seen were fantastic, Ghost in the Shell is one of my all time favourites, and I liked Akira despite their deviation from the manga. But those would not count as anime, I guess. The only serialised anime I enjoyed watching was JoJo. If somebody were to ask me if animes are worth the time, I would direct him to manga instead, which are in my eyes the height of impressionistic visual storytelling, in ways that Western graphic novels only rarely achieve.

Incorrect. "Anime" is a quality not a medium (the medium is animation). As you and Anthony stated before, habitual consumption of anything reduces it to nothing. "Anime" is a spirit, most commonly seen in Japan, which can be found in any medium, including reality.
When I say this, I am not saying "all Japanese things are anime" because that is not true— I am saying specific things in all areas of Japanese life and media are "anime", and even things outside of Japan can be anime, because it is a type of "logic" or spirit.
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#22
(05-09-2023, 06:26 PM)PIGSAW Wrote: ... specific things in all areas of Japanese life and media are "anime", and even things outside of Japan can be anime, because it is a type of "logic" or spirit.

And what is that spirit? Would you say it's the same as in manga (where I would identify it simply as impressionism)?
#23
On difference between manga and anime:

Sound is the key here. Japanese voice acting is very powerful. The sound we get in Japanese is incomparable to the sound we generate from reading subtitles, or translations. Also, sound effects in general. Music too. Sound alone makes anime "something different" from anime, and gives it ample reason to exist. I would also argue that the speed of animation makes technical quality less important. You get a glance, and take in the key information, generating details yourself.

I understand that an artist might object to this, since they have better trained eyes and might not be able to ignore the flaws.

I do prefer some mangas to some animes of the same story. Monster is one. Death Note is another. For these I enjoy reading at a slower pace than watching can supply me.
#24
Some animes are good, some are not. But one thing is for sure, the art is exceptionally beautiful.
#25
(05-18-2023, 02:58 AM)Hamamelis Wrote:
(05-09-2023, 06:26 PM)PIGSAW Wrote: ... specific things in all areas of Japanese life and media are "anime", and even things outside of Japan can be anime, because it is a type of "logic" or spirit.

And what is that spirit? Would you say it's the same as in manga (where I would identify it simply as impressionism)?

The Spirit of Anime

(05-09-2023, 06:26 PM)PIGSAW Wrote:
(04-09-2023, 01:46 PM)Hamamelis Wrote: Ever since I've saw my first anime at age 8 or so (Dragon Ball), the most striking thing to me was how badly it compares to the mangas. Apart from high effort japanese animation, anime seem to be mostly driven by the desire to reduce production cost as much as humanly (bugmanly) possible.

This is an important point. When I was a teen/early 20's I primarily sought out OVA, ONA, movies, and odd series (like the ones I posted) or experimental shorts which were notably higher effort/quality (and with more distinct styles, i.e., higher artistic value). I always looked down on the people who would watch "seasonals" or follow extremely long series (One Piece, Naruto, etc.) because they were not bothered by the lack of quality in these things, so I (correctly) considered them to be posers (although the Asians, particularly Jungle, who liked these things were fine, because they had a natural + to "anime" logic).

Now that it has been mentioned I can not un-see the bad quality, I think this is why I always watched sub and never dub—it takes your eyes off focus long enough to hide it. Also something about reading it give it a greater emotional impact(can not say the same for manga because it is at a way faster pace of consumption(less time to comprehend)).
#26
(05-18-2023, 02:58 AM)Hamamelis Wrote:
(05-09-2023, 06:26 PM)PIGSAW Wrote: ... specific things in all areas of Japanese life and media are "anime", and even things outside of Japan can be anime, because it is a type of "logic" or spirit.

And what is that spirit? Would you say it's the same as in manga (where I would identify it simply as impressionism)?

My original post, the "cosplayers" who cross into the other world and become "anime characters", even for a moment.
Or my post in the video game thread, specifically about heterochromia.

But if you want another example, in Gungrave (the anime and the game, which are extremely different from each other, I recommend both), Grave's pistols are "Cerebrus"— in Gungrave: Overdose you fight "Fangoram" who uses "Center Head", the missing 3rd "pistol", because Grave's are "Left Head" and "Right Head" of Cerebrus.


[Image: bec97497ebf7e5a6975619a59092d1ca.png]
[Image: 88dc8e9ecc4dc9412277aa1f4437013c.jpg]

"Gungrave" "Gungrave: Overdose" "Center Head"... this is what I mean when I say "logic", it's a kind of "design sense" coming from what I mean by the "spirit" of anime.

The point I'm making is that the "spirit of anime" ≠ "Japanese animation", that is what anime means literally— which isn't what any of my posts in this thread are about. I don't really care about anime in a literal sense, because I consider that to be the area of "seasonals" and etc. (I believe some here call it the "college anime club" or something like this, type of normalfag) it is not what I want or am attracted to.

To your point about impressionism, this could and should be classified as an artistic movement (it was part of the subcultural zeitgeist of the '00s)— but as far as I know it has no positive name, only negative as "edgelordism", which should not become the real name as it's fucking retarded (although coopting enemy language is always the best mechanism to obliterate it, both sides know this). Within this, I would say it's more related to expressionism than impressionism, as the 'point' is about capturing the feeling of niche and esoteric phenomena.

(05-22-2023, 01:40 AM)Reverend Moon Immortal Wrote: The Spirit of Anime

I haven't seen Darker Than Black, but this is fantastic example and follow up to what I just said.

"Darker Than Black", the name alone is what I'm talking about. Being able to tell someone you're watching "Darker Than Black" by "Studio Bones".. This is not to say that anime = goth (although this is extremely relevant); but that the spirit of anime = outsider. A recurring theme across anime for its entire existence is sparsity (opposite of peasant horror vacui), loneliness, and isolation..

Did you know that Kishi Station was operated by a cat?

[Image: 3684a3241dd713d6d5a46759c39d6674.jpg]

What kind of country would put a cat in charge of a train station? And why are cats so important to Japan?

It's because of what cats represent (more accurately, what they are)— an animal which lives between light and shadow. To understand why cats are so important to Japan is to understand the "spirit of anime". A place between light and dark:

[Image: 5506f2420e111cb246805f0ca7f03c2e.jpg]

We all understand to varying degrees what a "normalfag" is (hopefully, even here some struggle), but a more important question is what is the opposite of the normalfag?
What does it look like to actually be a freak, an outsider:

[Image: 9263271cf9ef684b2b7c049620a1a1f4.jpg]

We could talk about how Columbine may have been an op (I believe it was, unfortunately), but what matters is how much fear the "school shooter" strikes into the hearts of normalfaggots, and what similarities this has to "anime".

The spirit of anime is the manifestation of the true outsider, the tastemakers of society and human civilization.

Let us all remember; Hitler was an artist:

[Image: f31a19e55e55ae0942b5724e6d10963e.jpg]
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#27
Interesting thread here, but unfortunately, I have a total refutation for its premise:
"Anime good. If you don't like it you're an untrustworthy faggot."
#28
if anime so good why japan populace is collapse from sepuku out window and masturbate not go outside, anime make effeminate gayman not glory samurai

i laugh in face of you japlover scum
#29
(05-24-2023, 06:28 AM)Guest Wrote: if anime so good why japan populace is collapse from sepuku out window and masturbate not go outside, anime make effeminate gayman not glory samurai

i laugh in face of you japlover scum
hey,hybrid american.
i don't your future and killing soon!
#30
(05-22-2023, 11:37 PM)PIGSAW Wrote: The spirit of anime is the manifestation of the true outsider, the tastemakers of society and human civilization.
Weirdly, many outsiders seem to identify this spirit in their preferred art form. Not contradicting you necessarily, anime is both outside of mainstream culture (somewhat evidenced by the contortions necessary to present it in the mainstream), as well as heavily influential upon it.

(05-23-2023, 09:54 PM)Carbide Wrote: "Anime good. If you don't like it you're an untrustworthy faggot."
Unfortunately, anime is the type of filter that excludes some fags by including others.
Lightbulb 
#31
(05-24-2023, 03:50 PM)Hamamelis Wrote: Weirdly, many outsiders seem to identify this spirit in their preferred art form.

My argument is that all art is fundamentally outsider art— normalfaggots cannot become vessels (for what becomes art as an object). Therefore, I would agree with OP to the extent that anime 'becoming' mainstream amongst the (non-Japanese) masses is damaging to (dilution of) the spirit.

It's only now we see, with real clarity (obviously schlock has always existed in the minds of retards, even before the printing press allowed them to disseminate their tardthoughts), what it looks like for "culture" to be dictated by the actual tastes of the masses.

(05-24-2023, 03:50 PM)Hamamelis Wrote: Not contradicting you necessarily, anime is both outside of mainstream culture (somewhat evidenced by the contortions necessary to present it in the mainstream), as well as heavily influential upon it.

I agree.

(05-23-2023, 09:54 PM)Carbide Wrote: "Anime good. If you don't like it you're an untrustworthy faggot."

Well put.
[Image: 0b065d24f0c9a57c24af80cac8885ba2.jpg]
#32
(05-24-2023, 03:50 PM)Hamamelis Wrote: Unfortunately, anime is the type of filter that excludes some fags by including others.

Two-filter authentication.



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