Gamer Entitlement
anthony
GREED. Memes. lmaoooooooooooooooo Americans. Thumbnails of internet famous people pretending to laugh. Niggers. I despise gamers. It's late but we need a thread. Take this /v/ thread I remembered participating in to get us rolling.

https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/671208015/

This could expand out into the broader subject of people calling everything GREED now, or that can be its own thread. Between Dragon's Dogma 2, Escape From Tarkov's latest struggles, there's a lot going on here. And it all looks like communism to me.
Guest
Microtransactions are BAD.
Bugs are BAD.
Subscription services are BAD.
Anti Pirating Services are BAD.
Fanservice is BAD.

60 dollars per unit bought is the most profit any company can make from a game, and also they should just let their games be copied and shared freely on the internet without any hard feelings.

In an ideal world, the New Lara Croft Game from the beloved Lara Croft Franchise should cost 50 pesos, have a buffed Lara (realistic archaeologist explorer woman body) coupled with the face of a New Yorker writer. It should have a good and varied weapons sandbox, emotional notes and tapes scattered through the levels (videogame storytelling), intelligent but fair puzzles (no yellow paint!), thriving open world setting on an underrated non white landscape (like Araucania in Chile) with a respectable local culture major character who is a human being and not forced and admirable in its own way besides their ethnicity (Mapuche love interest?) in a engaging plot with evil companies, evil governments, climate disasters and malicious explorers, and, most important of all for this half terabyte no DRM game, no enemies clipping through walls.

Can you imagine how bad this game would be if you could just buy an Asuka skin for Lara for 9.99 dollars? Even worse, daily logging events for multiplayer?!
Guest
It's simply the end of the ongoing process of homogenization that the "gamer" asked for. Nothing exclusive, nothing extra, nothing hidden. Everything is available to everyone all the time. PC controls merged with console controls. Controllers all becoming "the same" for easy portability. Etc.

The "gamer" wanted everything to be the same, forever. He got it. Anyway, it's no big loss. The medium lived for a while and then it died. The better audience already left for a different type of game, although the masses are creeping in there too as well. It is more naturally insulated but legislation is also creeping up on it. Oh well, when that dies something else will live again too.

The "review campaigns" being bandied about are another clear indication. No individual review matters, no critique or appraisal. Just sheer volume, drag the bar up or down. On the flip side, when you do see individual reviews mentioned it is from complete failures who find some solace in becoming "skilled" in fields with less than 10,000 "competitors." Gameplay-experts you see. Or narrative-experts. Or lore-experts. They are all the same creature.
LoIiMerchant
The "'"'"'"'people'"'"'"'" who espouse this nonsense tend to do so from the "you can't steal from (whatever I perceive to be) big companies" angle. Even the so-called conservative gamers who make fun of this idea when it comes to Walmart shoplifting immediately abandon that in favor of anti-market ideas like "I pirate the game first and then buy it if it's good." LOL! I see many posts talking about how indie games are the future and the only hope for gaming... Absolute insanity to believe that young people to sacrifice eight years of their life and learn multiple skills (programming, design, music) for a 10% change at making it back is in any way a good environment for games and ideas to flourish. Young auteurs need opportunity to flourish. It's expecting Michelangelo to paint the roof of the Sistine Chapel out of passion, without 10 years of Papal sponsorship. Everything these people complain about is entirely their own fault, and will only be exacerbated by their anti-art anti-opportunity niggardly scrimping.
Guest
China and Korea have already shown where young, promising devs have the greatest chance: Gacha. By the time the West catches up it will already be dead and we will get similar things as the current western "JRPGs". Japan's industry is unfortunately in a vice grip of publishers and so there is very little for young devs to do there. Gacha, legally, allows for 1 man or woman to be worth thousands of the poor. It is also "kind" in that it lets the poor jump in for the ride. The more foolish developers listen to the poor and then end up dying as a consequence.
Guest
>Billions in, billions out. It's not cheap to run an artisan operation at this scale.

I feel no sympathy for those companies whose "billions out" comprises superfluous costs that did not exist two decades ago and do not need to exist today.
anthony
Guest Wrote:>Billions in, billions out. It's not cheap to run an artisan operation at this scale.

I feel no sympathy for those companies whose "billions out" comprises superfluous costs that did not exist two decades ago and do not need to exist today.

Name one.

And in response to the rest of the thread, the gamermass "review bombing" and the need to set up particular artists for the future bring a certain ongoing case to mind.

[Image: john-johanas-808.webp]

Most gamers will not know who this is. But they are all stepping up to bat for him. This is John Johanas. He is the director of The Evil Within 2 and Hi-Fi Rush. He is a Canadian who was hired on a whim with no prior experience or qualifications to work at Tango Gameworks by Shinji Mikami.

If this seems totally bewildering to you, the history of Tango is important. Mikami was tired of the big inertia driven machine of AAA gaming and wanted to kind of reset back to the conditions which allowed his own career to start, and enabled him to do such interesting things which grew into the AAA standard. Tango was meant to be a company he would set up, support, and enable rather than lead to do his own work. He wanted to give back because circumstances had been so kind to him in a way they couldn't be to anybody going forward.

Quote:Early years (1990–1993)
Although Mikami played arcade video games often, his entrance into the industry came by happenstance:
Quote:"A friend of mine had found a flyer advertising some kind of job fair-slash-buffet party Capcom was holding at the Hilton and he gave it to me because he knew I liked games. I went mainly because I wanted to eat at the Hilton for free, but once I started talking to Capcom people, really getting in depth about the work they do, I thought it sounded pretty neat. So I applied to both Capcom and Nintendo, and it turned out the second round of interviews for both companies were held on the same day, and I chose Capcom. It's likely for the better because I probably never had a chance with Nintendo."[sup][2][/sup]
His application was rejected at the screening process, then approved one week later.[sup][4][/sup] He joined Capcom in 1990 as a junior game designer,[sup][4][/sup] Mikami and fellow new hires were sent to a warehouse and ordered to "think hard about game design", then left unsupervised for the entire day. After a few months of just doing that, he was suddenly placed on a team and given a leadership position despite knowing nothing about game development.[sup][5][/sup]

Mikami had no technical skills and got hired as an ideas guy (go fuck yourself Sam Hyde). To say this paid off for Capcom would be the greatest understatement one could make on gaming. His ideas have probably cracked 10 figures in value by now. If not 11.

Mikami clearly felt bad for younger guys who had to enter gaming by learning hard and boring computerslave skills, and were forced to work on the 25th iteration of something Mikami came up with in the 90s. He wanted to level things out and create the conditions to make it all again. He got good people together at Tango, led the first game himself to get them experience, then he handed things over to some young guy who struck him as a weird chance to take who had no proper experience and only ideas (allegedly). That guy being, again, John Johanas.

[Image: image.png]

The Evil Within is a game I actually liked for what it was. A late Obamagame with transitional Trumpian elements. It's like Resident Evil 4 only with fucked up Unreal Engine and havok physics garbage destroying the tactility so that Americans don't get scared. It's actually a really fun game (or at least I remember having fun). Just a massive sequence of weird horror movie pastiche stuff going off constantly. Having just played the Dead Space games for a comparable experience, a linear RE4 inspired action game full of horror stuff not really focused on literary or expressive elements, I have to say The Evil Within absolutely rapes Dead Space.

And then John Johanas got to direct the sequel, and it was one of the most depressing things I ever played. It was a peak Trumpgaming experience. Just aggressively gay and retarded and at the same time overproduced and cheap and flimsy feeling. Like the whole thing was made by chinks or something. On every level you could see drastically different sensibilities making everything significantly worse despite the games being superficially similar. So many absurdities I could point out. The protagonist is a burned out guy whose daughter died. He looks kind of Hollywood fucked up in the first game. In the second it's stated he's been drinking hard since the end of the first game, but he looks younger. Also his daughter is still alive. So this is now a lastofgodofvaniabornelite. We are in true Trumpian AAA territory immediately. Grizzled sexy widow daddy has to crouch walk through ferns collecting materials to expand his manpurse in the middle of his quest to save his child or surrogate child (but don't worry ladies this highly desirable older man doesn't have some CUNT woman already claiming him...). The opening sequence and antagonist are bioshock "creepy whypipo" gibberish with no reason to exist. The dialogue is now all quips and snark like everyone involved is embarrassed to be there and afraid cool nigger could walk through the door at any moment. The game has gone from linear to a fucking "open world" set in the town from Stranger Things. I couldn't fucking believe this game. I actually stopped playing video games for a significant amount of the Trump era and I think this game is to blame more than anything else. Before this The Evil Within 1 was a little light I picked up on a whim that made me like them again for a while.

And of course I didn't play Hi FI Rush. But look at Tango's production history. Six fucking years to get this thing out. And Johanas says it's a homage to 'blue sky' Dreamcast games. Who the fuck calls them that? I would bet a toe that this motherfucker watches Hazel on youtube. That's like the next bleeding edge of poser revisionist faggotry. Like calling the PS1 the "PSX". People will be calling the Dreamcast the "Blue Sky" machine and saying it was all about just living in the freaking moment and lo-fi'ing your penis off. And definitely not about being Japanese or luxurious, which is the real defining trait of this era. The blue skies, beaches, and sleak technology and optimism were about WEALTH. LUXURY. HAVING NICE THINGS. JOHN JOHANAS IS A CANADIAN MILLENNIAL FAILCOMMUNIST, HE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THIS. HE WANTS VIDEO GAMES TO BE ABOUT CLAIMING YOUR RIGHT TO HEALTHCARE FROM CORPORATIONS (or "Corpos" as the cool kids call them now (additional note: I first saw transsexuals saying this on agora road, now /v/ says it. One strvggle. Bolsheviks unite.).

If anybody has played Hi-Fi Rush please feel free to weigh in further, but I am disgusted and kind of in awe that John Johanas being employed indefinitely as a creative lead is the latest gamer crusade. It's so fucking perfect and typical of gamers of course, but still to actually see it happen. It's too perfect.

Gamers will do literally anything if it can be framed as a moral crusade, as I said to that fuckhead on Agora Road. And they will frame anything as a moral crusade.

Other thought. I may have already said this elsewhere. "GREED" is the new meta-word in gaming culture. To get a million lmaooooooooooooooo Americans to click on your youtube thumbnail you need this word in your thumbnail. I've already seen this fact leveraged by sane people who obviously don't think it themselves.



GiantGrantGames is only 3/4 retarded, which makes him an outlier on youtube for intelligence. This thumbnail made me laugh so I clicked and watched to see what was going on. Interestingly, Grant's comments on why Company of Heroes 3 failed struck me as pretty much completely lucid and correct. Most importantly, at no point in the video does he talk about or attribute Greed to any of this. Because of course Greed has nothing to do with it. The game was just an underproduced piece of shit that should never have been attempted because people still play CoH2. But Grant knew that by putting 'GREED' in his thumbnail people would click on this.

I don't know if shorts embed here, but I also found this recently.

[edit: they don't. Here's the link.]

This guy is a long running failtuber who mostly just tries to parasite off of parasites like penguinz0, but here he's attempting to make a moralistic dhar mann dialogue about gamer discontent. It's like if a dumber Aaron Sorkin tried to write a micro-movie for Indian youtube commenters. Look at how quickly this guy fires off all of the memes. This is a particularly ugly and stupid way to present this, but maybe that makes it good for illustrating the point. That there's no rational connection between any of these gamer grievances and any kind of value or quality of experience offered. It's all memes. The entirety of this movement is just taking longer to do this video. And they're winning. They're bullying and getting more concessions all the time.

[Image: image.png]

Tencent literally stole Escape From Tarkov down to the level of Source Code and people are taking their side and framing their stance morally. I don't remember if I've covered it here. The Tarkov bullshit really deserves its own post. I think Nikita did nothing wrong and offers an insanely good deal for Tarkov, but it's all taken for granted. He gets no good will from these people. 8 years of mmo access for 50 dollars is just taken for granted. Of course. Why would anybody accept anything less? Optional 100 dollars for silly gimmicks in game? SCUM. SLOPPA. SCAM.

I don't know who Queenie is but I hope a nigger bounces her head off of concrete like a basketball. Same for all gamers of course. Vile fucking people. The average western gamer has extremely communist instincts. I've seen the innate poorfaggotry of western society (especially America) raised as a factor. maybe that explains it to an extent, but other poorfag gaming cultures developed in very different directions. Eastern Euros developed an affinity for older games that could run on their shit PCs and basically became artfags (or at least specialised genrefags) to cope with not having Playstations. Maybe differences in American poverty (you still have a playstation, are too fucking stupid to use a computer, etc) explain this. Shartmericuts aren't used to doing anything for themselves to cope with bad circumstances. Games, ironically, are a service to them. Rather than class of media.
Illustrious
Quote:Like calling the PS1 the "PSX"

Sorry https://files.catbox.moe/0jvfvq.JPG
anthony
Illustrious Wrote:
Quote:Like calling the PS1 the "PSX"

Sorry https://files.catbox.moe/0jvfvq.JPG

I never heard it and trannies like it because people didn't hear it and it sounds more like something out of Lain.
Illustrious
anthony Wrote:I never heard it and trannies like it because people didn't hear it and it sounds more like something out of Lain.

It was reserved for the written form, no one said audibly pee es ecks irl, just like no one said the gee cee to refer to the cube.

Anyway I think gamer entitlement can be good, the last stand of whiteness. If gamer entitlement makes journos mad, then it mustn't be that bad. Obviously it's weaponized by grifters these days (and sometimes the targets are misplaced), but what isn't? we're not going to retroactively demonize everything picked up by youtubers. I rather see a wary userbase over one that eats everything up, regardless of odious traits.
anthony
Illustrious Wrote:It was reserved for the written form, no one said audibly pee es ecks irl, just like no one said the gee cee to refer to the cube.

Anyway I think gamer entitlement can be good, the last stand of whiteness. If gamer entitlement makes journos mad, then it mustn't be that bad. Obviously it's weaponized by grifters these days (and sometimes the targets are misplaced), but what isn't? we're not going to retroactively demonize everything picked up by youtubers. I rather see a wary userbase over one that eats everything up, regardless of odious traits.

On the issues I consider to be gamer entitlement these people agree with the journos in most cases, if not all.
Guest
Even if you aren't trying to make money, the most efficient way to fund art from a few spare million dollars is going to wind up looking a lot like a business- even if you are way in the red, might as well sell stuff to stretch it farther. 80% roi vs 0% roi -> 1.8M to spend vs 1M to spend. "You give me this, for free" doesn't stand up even in the most charitable perspective. There are very few reasons to prioritize cheapness/freeness, like if it helps hobbyists build on it for free or helps spread it further.
FlyWithYou
These "issues" that people talk about sit on a weird indefinite unreal middle ground between the actual reality of videogame production and the actual reality of the character of the videogames themselves, considered apart from whatever circumstances produced them. With either of these other two subjects there'd be something real to talk about.
Aizen
Guest Wrote:Microtransactions are BAD.
Bugs are BAD.
Subscription services are BAD.
Anti Pirating Services are BAD.
Fanservice is BAD.

I've thought for a long time that monetizing torrenting/piracy thru Cryptocurrency and Blockchain tech could very easily solve this problem--not just for Games, but for music, tv, movies, anything that can be digitized. Crypto and Torrents share the peer-to-peer technology, it's just I've never seen anyone try to fuse these together. I'm not good at coding, but I do have a fundamental understanding of how blockchain works. If I knew people who were good at coding and likeminded this is something I'd be willing to dedicate a good chunk of my free time to.
[Image: cca7bac0c3817004e84eace282cc7a3d.jpg]
Recent Friend
Aizen Wrote:
Guest Wrote:Microtransactions are BAD.
Bugs are BAD.
Subscription services are BAD.
Anti Pirating Services are BAD.
Fanservice is BAD.

I've thought for a long time that monetizing torrenting/piracy thru Cryptocurrency and Blockchain tech could very easily solve this problem--not just for Games, but for music, tv, movies, anything that can be digitized. Crypto and Torrents share the peer-to-peer technology, it's just I've never seen anyone try to fuse these together. I'm not good at coding, but I do have a fundamental understanding of how blockchain works. If I knew people who were good at coding and likeminded this is something I'd be willing to dedicate a good chunk of my free time to.

You'll be doing what Steam already did but decentralized, which is give each copy attached to a wallet a unique identity (blockchain achievements and other user data).
Yumetaro
I don't know if we're living through a nasty outbreak of the GREED meme or if you can't stop seeing it once someone points it out, but I'd like to document another very recent revolt that we haven't pointed out yet: the one surrounding Helldivers 2.

[Image: announcement.jpg]

To summarize the above picture, on May 2nd, Sony Interactive Entertainment, through Helldivers 2's Steam page, announced that their requirement that all Steam players link their Steam account to a Playstation Network account would soon go from mandatory but unenforced, to mandatory and enforced. Gamers immediately armed themselves with the GREED meme and carried out a mass assault on all fronts. The review bombing that followed took Helldivers 2's Steam page from overwhelming critical acclaim to mixed reception, even with hundreds of thousands of reviews already made. On May 6th, the account linking enforcement was canceled.

[Image: greed3.jpg]
[Image: greed2.jpg]
[Image: greed1.jpg]

Now what was so valuable to GREEDY Sony that they would dare to implement such a feature? The announcement refers to protecting players and Playstation's values of safety and security. A community representative (shown below) at Arrowhead Games Studios elaborated on this by explicitly stating that linking your Steam account to a PSN account allows managers to ban your account easier. I am not aware of anyone important contradicting either of these statements, so we may as well take it as the truth.

[Image: bantweet.jpg]

Let's look at the bio of this account, which is now deleted.

[Image: bio.jpg]

If you read lots of chatter surrounding this, you'll notice a lot of people talking about SONY and CORPORATE GREED, and ALMOST NOTHING about what any of this is actually for. Because if you talk about the latter it makes it clear we're not dealing with changes demanded by GREEDY SHAREHOLDERS. We're dealing with changes demanded by some trust and safety team within Sony, probably made up of people who look a lot like "Misty." As Anthony has written elsewhere, it's all libtarded and ideological. If anyone actually stopped and thought about this most of them would realize they're in favor of the account linking.

The only major accounts talking about the actual reason for the policy, at least on X, are Grummz and Perma Banned. And they're pariahs that are subject of constant scorn, plus I don't like them, so I'm not going to count them.

Calling the invocations of GREED a meme is very appropriate I think. It's like a virus that is hampering people's ability to think clearly.

[Image: map.png]

As an example let's consider this fact. There are billions of people living in countries that can't make a PSN account, some of them even have money. Since May 4th, these countries have had Helldivers 2 delisted from Steam. Steam is claiming that requests to delist are coming from Sony. Interestingly enough, as of May 10th, it has also been delisted in the Baltic states, so this is still a developing situation.

Now would anyone be able to explain how the decision to exclude people from these countries from buying the game, as well as exclude them and people who already bought the game from the in-game cash shop, is motivated by SONY'S CORPORATE GREED? Because I can't. I think the people who wanted to make money were shrieked down by a fat woman horrified that people weren't being banned fast enough. But the decision also means a Vietnamese boy won't be able to play Helldivers 2, so now we can be anti-racist third-worldist crusaders on his behalf so we don't have to think about how none of this makes any sense.
[Image: vpost1.jpg]
[Image: vpost2.jpg]
Look at these two /v/ posts. Again, this is a mind virus that kills your brain. This moron is basically using it as mental white out to hide that his accusations don't hold up under scrutiny. It's the GREEDY CORPORATIONS that aren't being LOGICAL MAAAAAAAN. For every question you can't give an answer to, you have to give another one word answer of GREED, and you get to be that much angrier.

I'm glad that it looks like Sony backed off, but there's nothing worse than someone agreeing with you for a bad reason. I don't want to read another communist retard's victory cry about how we all got one over on SONY and their SHAREHOLDERS.

What I don't really understand about these waves of Gamer Entitlement is what causes them. Helldivers 2 is $40 and on day 1 released a "Super Citizen" edition that costs an extra $20 and barely gives you anything in return. As referred to earlier it also has an in-game currency, which is how you pay for battle passes, unless you grind for it at a glacial pace. This was not nearly as controversial as Dragon's Dogma 2. Gamers were fine with Day One DLC and microtransactions as long as it came from a game named Helldivers 2. I can identify differences between Helldivers 2 and what Dragon's Dogma 2 did or was accused of doing, I don't know if any of those matter. It all feels arbitrary. Is it as simple as what the youtube thumbnails say? How do the thumbnails decide what to make people angry about?
anthony
I got banned from Agora Road for telling these people that GREED is a justification for moralist crusades rather than a meaningful force in games. This is "derailment" because the thread is about how capitalism is destroying video games. So we're only allowed to discuss that conclusion. Was going to make a thread dedicated to the subject to see how they'd answer when not allowed to "you're derailing me". Most likely, like the oh so proud "games are training late capitalist imperialist killbots" psychology thesisposter, they would just ignore me.

I brought up that even on Wikipedia the flatly stated intention of the Playstation integration was making it easier to ban people for ideological reasons, but I didn't see these tweets. Excellent catch. It's good to preserve this kind of thing because this keeps happening.

This talk about GREED reminded me of another encounter with stupid internet people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OldcSfUys0

Remember this guy? Everything Valve does is GREED because they're making money. Of course by the logic he uses to accuse Valve, I don't believe that a good or tolerable business can exist. The ones he approves of are of course all obviously shady scav and parasite industries which wear similar moralist colours and serve him rather than people who make things (GOG are niggers who sell bad repacks). But is there a single non-gaming business that meets this guy's absurd and contrived standards? If we try to find principles in his ramblings we can only conclude that BUSINESS ITSELF is the problem, and that he'll make unprincipled exceptions for anybody who helps him steal free stuff or get extortionate deals.

This is Bolshevism. I see no way around it. Something that might need its own thread which we've discussed in pieces elsewhere is the convergence between libtard and alt-right moralism on so many issues. Economically the alt-right is a bunch of retarded peasants who think everything is a SCAM and that we need PEOPLES' SOLIDARITY MOVEMENTS to resist SCAMS. Libtards replace references to Jews with Old White Men. Also I recently got caught up on the New Soyjak Party and its New American userbase attempting to dox ongezellig posters for being "pedos". The 14 year old oaxacan tradcath and the afro-semitic college graduate commissar agree that this needs doing.

But I'm getting off topic. There was something I wanted to share. A guy contacted me about my comment under the Valve video.

[Image: image.png]

I actually did add this guy. Then I looked at his channel. He's a genuine schizophrenic. He called me at 4am to talk about Valve. I said I couldn't talk at 4am. He said it's not 4am, asked me what else I wanted, then when I said I wanted nothing from him he acted exasperated and blocked me. This is the face of democracy.
Mason Hall-McCullough
If we strip away the moral connotations, GREED can refer to attempts to earn immediate profit that cause outsized harm to the quality of a product, a brand's reputation, or a company's long-term prospects for success. This often results in bad games and destroys franchises.

Microtransactions, releasing before fixing bugs, subscription services, DRM, fanservice, casualization, lootboxes, online-only singleplayer, gacha, and anything else /v/ hates generally are bad in and of themselves, I don't get what Guest1's point is. All of these things directly damage the gameplay experience and artistic vision of a game to chase short term profits. They often betray consumer expectations or even deceive in direct ways that are obviously unethical. Even if it is argued that such a compromise benefits the game overall by making it more financially viable, it would be better if developers could avoid the compromise by just selling the game at a higher price, losing fewer sales to piracy, or laying off 90% of their women and niggers (note that piracy and diversity hires aren't problems for Japan).

The deceit in the accusation of GREED is that a pirate cannot be considered greedy, he feels comfortable claiming the moral high ground because GREED can only apply to wealthy companies. But if we more accurately characterize the business practices he objects to as low-trust, short-sighted betrayals, it's clear that the pirate is also guilty himself: piracy gives a short-term reward in exchange for harming the financial viability of future games and the industry at large in the long term. Both parties bear shared responsibility for the breakdown in consumer trust. The path to high consumer trust (which looks like Japan) is unclear. Maybe things get better if the market crashes and everyone starts playing indie games instead, since people seem a lot more willing to support indie devs even when they haven't finished the game yet. It might also not be possible without racial homogeneity and/or the virtual isolation of a language barrier.

Between urging gamers to "just stop complaining and buy <newest installment of popular franchise> so they can pay their women and niggers bro" and urging corporations to "just neglect your fiduciary responsibility and make a loss bro", I have less sympathy for Western game companies because they have terminal cancer. Layoffs and bankruptcies will probably be good for the industry in the end. Although I don't care about the apparently popular games that /v/ cares about anyway, so I am content to ignore them. I don't disagree that gamers are mostly retards, this is known, "entitlement" is moralism however and I think it's positive if anything that consumers are becoming more discerning. I especially don't want DRM to be normalized and sometimes it feels like gamers care more about this than actual tech enthusiasts.



Yumetaro Wrote:Now what was so valuable to GREEDY Sony that they would dare to implement such a feature? The announcement refers to protecting players and Playstation's values of safety and security. A community representative (shown below) at Arrowhead Games Studios elaborated on this by explicitly stating that linking your Steam account to a PSN account allows managers to ban your account easier. I am not aware of anyone important contradicting either of these statements, so we may as well take it as the truth.

https://i.ibb.co/ZzX3KVd/bantweet.jpg

It seems like that screenshot was probably a misunderstanding or lie, and I think it was reasonable of the community to assume as much given that safety/security is the most common excuse for any anti-user policy a company wants to enact. I also think it was likely that Sony pushed the Helldivers 2 devs to require all players to use PSN accounts, Sony had a financial incentive to do this because it puts more users in their store and they can show increased registration counts to shareholders. Sony ZOGployees are probably way more professional and sociopathic than that incompetent troon "community manager" (AKA Discord/reddit mod).
NuclearAbsolutist
Mason Hall-McCullough Wrote:Sony ZOGployees are probably way more professional and sociopathic

I doubt much has changed since North Korea pulled back  the curtain on their operation back in the Obama admin with the email leaks
[Image: wcsDp2r.png]

These people are a collection of maudlin hacks that reflect the society that goes to their products like a trough. Naturally I do think there is a firm case Sony is simply trying to get every game they publish onto the PSN ecosystem but I consider it telling none the less the fig leaf they tell their underlings  is the unalloyed moral good of better jannying. Also, it is rather telling as far as out there publicly the Helldivers devs were not given a heads up and knew as much as the players over the days of drama last I checked.
[Image: 3RVIe13.gif]

“Power changes its appearance but not its reality.”― Bertrand De Jouvenel
anthony
Mason Hall-McCullough Wrote:If we strip away the moral connotations, GREED can refer to attempts to earn immediate profit that cause outsized harm to the quality of a product, a brand's reputation, or a company's long-term prospects for success. This often results in bad games and destroys franchises.
"Profit" is a very important and complex element everyone takes for granted. If probed the average /v/oaxacan believes that there is some kind of fat cat or board of fat cats at the top of every video game production and they make some kind of obscene excess personal profit whenever a perceived corner cutting takes place in a game. This is of course very silly. But what you mean when you say "profit"? The implication, which is the source of moral strength in the mob, is that a specific person somewhere is being personally enriched in an unfair way.

Is this really a common thing? What are these "attempts to earn immediate profit that caust outsized harm to the quality of a product, a brand's reputation, or a company's long-term prospects for success"? Can you actually name a single case where this appears to be happening? Or are we perhaps if we think about it talking about mere considerations of business exigency in virtually every single case like the Valve guy?

I'll help you out here with the closest I've got to a real greed case along the line I've given you. GSC Game World. The company behind Cossacks and STALKER. I like these guys. Their founder, Sergiy Grygorovych, like a lot of Eastern Euro businessmen, immediately started acting nigger-rich upon contact with success. Bought several exotic cars for himself while his employees caught the bus to work. Still, nobody attributes the poor state of any particular game to him as far as I know. His outsized personal enjoyment of the company's income may have held back their ability to expand or refine their projects, leading to their eventual dissolution. We could call this a kind of sabotage by greed. But it wasn't observable in their games in any of the ways gamers are conditioned to look for these things, beyond bugs.

But that leads into another point, that bugs were if anything more common in older PC games, which is the tradition GSC worked in. Games are expensive and can't be refined forever. Again. Exigency. They have to get out the door at some point. And generally this came out a lot rougher before "early-access" development models and Steam based easy patching became normal. Old PC games were a mess. Nobody thought this was greed. Perhaps because gaming was not yet democratic. Oaxacans did not have computers. There was not a sufficient mass of people who wanted to destroy all of these guys for making nice things.


Quote:Microtransactions, releasing before fixing bugs, subscription services, DRM, fanservice, casualization, lootboxes, online-only singleplayer, gacha, and anything else /v/ hates generally are bad in and of themselves, I don't get what Guest1's point is. All of these things directly damage the gameplay experience and artistic vision of a game to chase short term profits. They often betray consumer expectations or even deceive in direct ways that are obviously unethical. Even if it is argued that such a compromise benefits the game overall by making it more financially viable, it would be better if developers could avoid the compromise by just selling the game at a higher price, losing fewer sales to piracy, or laying off 90% of their women and niggers (note that piracy and diversity hires aren't problems for Japan).


Microtransactions have never been meaningfully or successfully implemented into any kind of complete experience style of game. They only work in things like MMOs. Multiplayer games. "Service" games, whatever the fuck that means. I really still don't know.

Again I am going to ask you for specific examples. Which games have damaged gameplay experiences and artistic visions due to this chasing of short term profits? Which games betrayed your consumer expectations or deceived you unethically?

And you raise an important subject at the end here. Piracy and Japan. I don't really think the Japanese ever pirate much. Think of how much more viable this makes all of their media? Meanwhile we pirate virtually all of our japanese media. Again, they provide entertainment welfare for the entire world. If piracy were seriously fought culturally and practically on the whole all media, art, and culture would be that much more viable. That old Scott Bakker forum thread went well into all of this. It kills the long tail works. The interesting outliers which are always the seed of progress.

Quote:The deceit in the accusation of GREED is that a pirate cannot be considered greedy, he feels comfortable claiming the moral high ground because GREED can only apply to wealthy companies. But if we more accurately characterize the business practices he objects to as low-trust, short-sighted betrayals, it's clear that the pirate is also guilty himself: piracy gives a short-term reward in exchange for harming the financial viability of future games and the industry at large in the long term. Both parties bear shared responsibility for the breakdown in consumer trust. The path to high consumer trust (which looks like Japan) is unclear. Maybe things get better if the market crashes and everyone starts playing indie games instead, since people seem a lot more willing to support indie devs even when they haven't finished the game yet. It might also not be possible without racial homogeneity and/or the virtual isolation of a language barrier.


Most aren't even that. These people just refuse to acknowledge exigency. These are BIG operations. They have their own inertia to them. People must ultimately be accountable to time. They try not to be, and generally in Japan especially do quite well. Where the judgement falls is never rational in these big cases. Pirates of anything new are free-riding trash. This is not a both sides are wrong. The closest I can think of to a low-trust, short-sighted betrayal is maybe something like Nikita Buyanov's constantly trying to think of new editions to keep Tarkov afloat. The fact the game is built on an exceptionally good deal is never brought into the calculation. People judge him because "PAY2WIN" and "MICROTRANSACTIONS" are axiomatically scummy sloppa scammer trying to take the meat out of my juicy burger.

Quote:Between urging gamers to "just stop complaining and buy <newest installment of popular franchise> so they can pay their women and niggers bro" and urging corporations to "just neglect your fiduciary responsibility and make a loss bro", I have less sympathy for Western game companies because they have terminal cancer. Layoffs and bankruptcies will probably be good for the industry in the end. Although I don't care about the apparently popular games that /v/ cares about anyway, so I am content to ignore them. I don't disagree that gamers are mostly retards, this is known, "entitlement" is moralism however and I think it's positive if anything that consumers are becoming more discerning. I especially don't want DRM to be normalized and sometimes it feels like gamers care more about this than actual tech enthusiasts.


The Japanese don't have niggers and women. Like the anons in the thread I'm not going to let you get away with attributing defenses of one industry to another. American games I think shouldn't be bought at all if appraised rationally. While Japanese games remain the great value they've always been, if not significantly better all the time as adjusted for rising production values. Layoffs and bankruptcies will be good for the American industry, and it's all very natural. That's where this is primarily happening. As the discussion goes more broadly, I think lots of Americans like to treat collapse like a globally uniform and inevitable thing so as to ease the pain of living in a suicidal culture. Japan is just going to dodge this stuff.

Consumers I believe are becoming discerning, but only in the sense they attempt to make more judgements. They are not becoming better at this. Or at least if they are it is such a slow process that no progress is observable yet.


Quote:
Yumetaro Wrote:Now what was so valuable to GREEDY Sony that they would dare to implement such a feature? The announcement refers to protecting players and Playstation's values of safety and security. A community representative (shown below) at Arrowhead Games Studios elaborated on this by explicitly stating that linking your Steam account to a PSN account allows managers to ban your account easier. I am not aware of anyone important contradicting either of these statements, so we may as well take it as the truth.

https://i.ibb.co/ZzX3KVd/bantweet.jpg

It seems like that screenshot was probably a misunderstanding or lie, and I think it was reasonable of the community to assume as much given that safety/security is the most common excuse for any anti-user policy a company wants to enact. I also think it was likely that Sony pushed the Helldivers 2 devs to require all players to use PSN accounts, Sony had a financial incentive to do this because it puts more users in their store and they can show increased registration counts to shareholders. Sony ZOGployees are probably way more professional and sociopathic than that incompetent troon "community manager" (AKA Discord/reddit mod).

I'll give you credit, this is the most plausible explanation I've seen offered so far. But if correct, it does not naturally follow that Sony are professional and sociopathic. This absolutely shit on their image and alienated people riding high off of their success of the year. The problem keeps happening in these discussions. Massive corporate FAILURES cannot be attributed to refinement and sociopathic devotion to professionalism. This doesn't make sense. This is what you say when you believe that Late Capitalism is when something makes you angry.
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