How to avoid the fate of 4Chan?
#1
I like the current Amarna, medium-sized forums are my favorite, pretty active and with quite the number of (usually high quality) content, homever, it will keep growing, this is good at first, homever, a point will be reached in which Normgroids discover it, i have already seen them in the Wild calling us Chuds or some other Normspeak, how do we prevent them from simply creating accounts like they did in 4chan and overruning it, turning it into a shithole with constant massive raids?
#2
4chan is bad, but not the worst thing ever. I still post there just like I do here. Occasionally there's positive reception, more often negative or nothing. That's fine with me, I do it for my own sake, but these people don't want it and are averse to the way I post. No matter who shows up or what they post that doesn't have to influence the way you post. Might be unpleasant to look at, can always just look away, skim over, or my preferred option, take it as seriously as you can and see where that goes.

I think if posting quality is maintained you're only really vulnerable to cultural decay through dilution, which doesn't really bug me if they're trying. If you don't change people who really get it will still recognise you and you them. If this place suffers the fate of 4chan I just hope I can somehow cash out like moot.
#3
(11-14-2022, 09:11 AM)Toledo_Keyed Wrote: I like the current Amarna, medium-sized forums are my favorite, pretty active and with quite the number of (usually high quality) content, homever, it will keep growing, this is good at first, homever, a point will be reached in which Normgroids discover it, i have already seen them in the Wild calling us Chuds or some other Normspeak, how do we prevent them from simply creating accounts like they did in 4chan and overturning it?

Good moderation. Remember that even despite constant raids, flooding, and the force of a thousand 12 y/o retards, /b/ maintained a standard of quality far above what it should have due to WT Snacks being insanely anal about moderation. /a/ survived even longer until moot practically self-sabotaged for some reason, and had high quality discussion until maybe 2013(?). If you have a fraternity of good, high-quality posters and dedicated admins, a site can survive and be good for years after normgroid infiltration, solely due to them not having much real interest in the site beyond the novelty. Self-moderation is also important, sagebombing and gorespamming were both really useful tools to stop godawful threads from having replies. Gatekeeping is also a very important part of keeping a site good (I suspect that many who talk about "purity spirals" are secretly mad because they made a shit post and were called out for it), though when Summer hits, this becomes the duty of the moderators rather than the users. Moderationwise, these are the important parts of keeping a good forum. The only real other thing that's necessary is teaching newfags how to make quality posts in ways that they pick up through osmosis instead of just giving them advice and coddling them. This makes sure that people who only shitpost are not encouraged and people who want to actually learn will learn by absorbing lessons. If you keep this going, a site can stay high-quality for years on end without spiraling.
#4
(11-14-2022, 10:02 AM)Guest Wrote: ...The only real other thing that's necessary is teaching newfags how to make quality posts in ways that they pick up through osmosis instead of just giving them advice and coddling them. This makes sure that people who only shitpost are not encouraged and people who want to actually learn will learn by absorbing lessons. If you keep this going, a site can stay high-quality for years on end without spiraling.

This is by far the most important in my opinion. Lurk moar needs to be brutally enforced from the beginning or the average post quality will decline with every new user. If enforcement starts to slip, learning by osmosis becomes less effective for each additional user because they will learn a lower standard and the decline continues.
#5
I never really used 4chan 8chan became my go to and what the anons said there about the mother imageboard decline concurs with what Guest said and I concur with it as well, moderation was the key behind its decline. In the retelling of the exiles they censored GamerGate because it was "off topic for video games, spam" which of course points to minds so dead as to only think and act in such narrow terms its no wonder the site has fallen off a cliff.

It is clear the moderation of the forum never thought in terms of doing things positively even in the terms of 4chans original purpose a site a teenage Moot ripped off from Japan for discussions on various topics. The supposed ideal in the eyes of outsiders from imageboard culture and I presume the site staff is a black mold approach to online community where anything (within limits of course we can't have that hecking loli or chud posters around in my board no no) goes as long as its vaguely on topic or not a spam link even if its the same tired bait posts the same OPs with the exact same xyz format and the same gaggle of unserious lowcase posters who shriek at anyone who actually takes the hobby of the board somewhat seriously. Luckily this mistaken mindset is not something that is required for a imageboard or any forum all it takes is having a community willing to post and a moderation helping such posters in material(no spam reliable hosting etc) or social(cracking down on interlopers) ways and your set.

From those two basic things a virtuous cycle made it so the simple internet forum of the 2000s in subject matters across the whole of mankind's skill set because the place for learning and discussion about such things and I believe and hope the men of our forum can revive that spark from those who have tired to smother it with self awareness and excellence never seen before online.
#6
icycalm solved this. Pseudonymity rather than anonymity and a small paywall so that people have financial and reputational skin in the game.

Also they should be hierarchical monarchies of moderators with high power over their subjects. It doesn’t work well for icy because he is a disagreeable control freak to an absurd degree, but for people with a lighter touch it will work fine. The forum’s quality will reflect the quality of the monarch. Have recruiting drives to snag the best people from PSL, 4chan, rationalist type fagomunities.
#7
When I first began to invite my Templists here, I thought to myself, "what if their low IQ overruns the Amarna forum?"

The answer that became apparent to me was the institution of a caste system. I think this could be applied for a number of forums.

Create a tiered set of forum areas, accessible only to those of the corresponding caste or higher. Everyone begins as, say, a sudra, and can be promoted up or down according to post quality.

It is important that the mechanism for caste advancement not be something autistic like "amount of posts" or etc. You cannot possibly measure or quantify good quality posting by such a metric. You can only measure it by the intuition of others who are themselves good quality posters. Thus, promotion or demotion would be rendered by mods of higher caste, or by vote of higher caste, after interaction with that person.

This isn't something that Amarna needs right now, but I think it would be a good idea if a forum started to be filled with bad quality posters. Or, with Templists.
#8
(11-14-2022, 01:03 PM)BillyONare Wrote: icycalm solved this. Pseudonymity rather than anonymity and a small paywall so that people have financial and reputational skin in the game.

Also they should be hierarchical monarchies of moderators with high power over their subjects. It doesn’t work well for icy because he is a disagreeable control freak to an absurd degree, but for people with a lighter touch it will work fine. The forum’s quality will reflect the quality of the monarch. Have recruiting drives to snag the best people from PSL, 4chan, rationalist type fagomunities.

Did Icycalm ever actually achieve "community" or "good discourse" or whatever we're talking about here? I ask because I remember when he let his insiders write pieces on particular games for his website and they were all absolutely terrible. Maybe they have the coolest stuff ever going on in their circles but I see no sign of anybody but him fuelling this stuff.
#9
(11-15-2022, 06:13 AM)anthony Wrote:
(11-14-2022, 01:03 PM)BillyONare Wrote: icycalm solved this. Pseudonymity rather than anonymity and a small paywall so that people have financial and reputational skin in the game.

Also they should be hierarchical monarchies of moderators with high power over their subjects. It doesn’t work well for icy because he is a disagreeable control freak to an absurd degree, but for people with a lighter touch it will work fine. The forum’s quality will reflect the quality of the monarch. Have recruiting drives to snag the best people from PSL, 4chan, rationalist type fagomunities.

Did Icycalm ever actually achieve "community" or "good discourse" or whatever we're talking about here? I ask because I remember when he let his insiders write pieces on particular games for his website and they were all absolutely terrible. Maybe they have the coolest stuff ever going on in their circles but I see no sign of anybody but him fuelling this stuff.

I partially agree with the proposed user caste system, but i think they should all start as a medium-caste and either go up or down depending on the quality of the posts, going up allows you to acess exclusive channels, going too low gets you automatically banned, either permanently or temporarily

Of course, for now this is not needed for now as there hasn't been any Leftoid/Norwood infiltration
#10
(11-15-2022, 07:05 AM)Toledo_Keyed Wrote: Of course, for now this is not needed for now as there hasn't been any Leftoid/Norwood infiltration

I disagree, it is needed, even now.
While the caste system would do good to stop infiltration, that would not be the primary benefit.
The primary benefit would be creating a hierarchy (based on poaster quality), which would lend authority to poasts made by those of a higher caste. This would inform newcomers of the hierarchy of users here, who has sway and who doesn't.

As things currently stand, we are all equal, with the exception of the different "based" user-flairs, which don't really confer anything other than potentially having a more unique one than other people.
An actual caste system would allow us to reward and restrict the users, regardless of whether they are subversionists or just lost normgroids.

(11-15-2022, 07:05 AM)Toledo_Keyed Wrote: i think they should all start as a medium-caste and either go up or down depending on the quality of the posts

This is an interesting idea. Where newbies start would depend on how many castes are implemented.
To have them start in the middle, we would need at least five castes. If it was three castes, we would not have decent enough granularity to rank the users.

Final thoughts.
Like people, not all poasters are equal, and this should be reflected somehow if at all possible.
It is an injustice that my middling poasts could be viewed by others as having the same value as some tard-poast. Equally, it would be an injustice to value my contribution equally to that of the high-tier poasters.
#11
@anthony His cultists are generally very high IQ but also afraid of his wrath so they don't post much unfortunately. You could say he figured it out in theory but not in practice. But he also enjoys being the king of a sterile universe and everyone submitting to his grandeur. And the counterargument is that if you want to post subpar things that annoy him then you can do that anywhere else on the Internet.
#12
(11-15-2022, 07:24 PM)BillyONare Wrote: @anthony His cultists are generally very high IQ but also afraid of his wrath so they don't post much unfortunately. You could say he figured it out in theory but not in practice. But he also enjoys being the king of a sterile universe and everyone submitting to his grandeur. And the counterargument is that if you want to post subpar things that annoy him then you can do that anywhere else on the Internet.

Sounds like a pretty awful system. A cultivated receptive readerbase which is very small and basically a friend circle who pay you and are stifled by your presence.
#13
It's *extremely* simple, actually: competent moderation. 4chan was usable when the jannies and mods allowed you to call summerfags summerfags etc. The more you sclerotize and bureaucratize rules of speech and conduct instead of using arbitrary "common sense" of a high-IQ moderator, it goes to shit.

An underrated aspect - mods themselves can degenerate. This, for example, happened to Facepunch where there's the same "old guard" of moderators except they now enforce faggotry. But that might have something to do with the general 'woodic early 2000s internet culture.


[-]
Quick Reply
Message
Type your reply to this message here.

Human Verification
Please tick the checkbox that you see below. This process is used to prevent automated spam bots.



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)