Internet Tranny Sociology Thread
#61
(07-28-2022, 03:46 AM)Youkai Wrote:
(07-26-2022, 01:58 PM)Coyote Wrote: Has anyone bothered to ask the trannies or their supporters if and how transgenderism existed prior to tranny surgery and synthetic hormones?  Seems like this has been overlooked. 

I've also seen stuff like the very closely related "two-spirited" (for Natives in the Americas) being proof of transgenderism being lindy, or this outcast group in India called the "Hijra" (basically male crossdressers who are sometimes eunuchs) who have been around since at least the time of the Mughals as another example. To me all of these historical references look like desperate attempts to tie it to this modern understanding of what it is. They parrot these things with pride despite the reality that these instances were always shunned and condemned by society at large and/or fulfilled extremely nice roles, and also make incredible reaches like a record of 2000 year old feminized catamite is proof that they've always been there and used to be accepted. 

Even if we were to take all these other examples at face value, which is ridiculous, the examples they give were always in the fringes of society and frowned upon/punished.  It's really quite insane once you get down to it.

As far as the "two spirit" thing goes, that was straight up manufactured by homo activists and does not resemble the reality of North American Indian shamanism in the slightest.
#62
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucbx9we6EHk
#63
https://kiwifarms.net/threads/ethan-glui...don.88161/
The only reason all these troons have latched onto dnb/jungle/breakcore in the last 5-6 years is because splicing/chopping up drum breaks reminds them of doing the same to their genitalia.
#64
(08-30-2022, 03:02 PM)Montherlant Wrote: https://kiwifarms.net/threads/ethan-glui...don.88161/
The only reason all these troons have latched onto dnb/jungle/breakcore in the last 5-6 years is because splicing/chopping up drum breaks reminds them of doing the same to their genitalia.

lol in that thread "seriously, fuck off with the 41% shit, men kill themselves too"

Someone brought up the same point about music earlier in the thread and someone replied it's not particularly tranny music, just rave. Not entirely wrong but trannies do have a preference for high bpm dnb/rave music, I think it's for the same reason it's popular in clubs; it's energetic but easy to process, you can listen to it in the background, it doesn't expect you to pay attention to it or convey one particular feeling like classical music would, it's a vague "right here, right now" feeling.
It's stimulation for the sake of making sure you can still feel something, masturbating can be like this too. As for breakcore and other -core music, it samples clips from the internet, it's relatively obscure, meaning it's what someone with social anxiety that's shut off themselves from the outside world might feel like listening to. I talked to someone who's into breakcore and they said they don't like listening to anything with lyrics in it, why would that be? Why would you dislike hearing a human voice when listening to music unless you listen to music because you can't get a a human to voice thoughts that don't hurt you? That's what I got out of talking to that person, maybe it's not exactly that with all trannies but I can't think of anything else. Breakcore is different than electronic rave music in that the scratches, kicks etc. end at seemingly random intervals and it's completely disorganised (no clear feelings conveyed, dissociative) but still manages to capture a feeling of continuity and passage of time. Assuming you have more of a friend in your computer than in your family and "friends" (and this ties in with "low fidelity" brought up earlier in the thread) then flashing video and audio clips are essentially your life flashing before your eyes and ears.
#65
(08-30-2022, 03:02 PM)Montherlant Wrote: https://kiwifarms.net/threads/ethan-glui...don.88161/
The only reason all these troons have latched onto dnb/jungle/breakcore in the last 5-6 years is because splicing/chopping up drum breaks reminds them of doing the same to their genitalia.
sewerslvt is an interesting case because of the disconnect between his pre-, and post-trooning personas.

pre-trooning sewerslvt was what the neo-schoolmarms would call an "edgelord": he still catches criticism from his fellow picrew-toothpaste-avatar types for taking a prurient interest in sadistic crime and extreme fetishism; arranging his tracklists to spell out the names of murder victims; putting pictures of dead people in his album art; and so on... basically all material from that era has been wiped off his channel, but still persists in archives:

[Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JyGe2KXHh0]

post-trooning sewerslvt is still as troubled as he ever was, if not moreso, but where the pre-trooning material was prurient and energetic, the post-trooning material is... closed-off. hazy. undefined. the good qualities of his work toned down and high-passed into a big blob of nothing. auditory anesthetic.

[Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GztyGZV1gIc]
#66
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned pornography yet, given that it's both a consistent theme of trannyposting and quite obviously a strong contributing factor to AGP. I don't think troons realize how much they're letting on when they routinely and shamelessly revel in porn as part of their online self-expression, as they so often do.

The relationship between AGP and porn follows straightforwardly from the points about psychosexual fragmentation, virtual reality, Gnostic escapism, etc. which have already been raised upthread. In fact, masturbation in general is symbolically feminine in being focused inward rather than toward any external object: no matter how heterosexual your lusts may be, you simply can't fuck the pretty girl on the screen and so all of the physical pleasure must come through sitting still and receiving it from yourself (unless the sheer thrill of holding a cock does it for you, but I wouldn't find that relatable). This gap between visually mediated imagination and physical reality is dissociative enough even for the fetish-free straight man, and anything else is just leaving orbit entirely. If I were feeling cheeky I would say that in the grand scheme of things, all porn is sissy hypno.

On the other hand, only a small percentage of habitual pornoids do troon, and most never even come close (apologies for that sentence). The pornogenic theory of AGP certainly requires elaboration to fully explain why some are affected while most are not; e.g. pre-existing autism or exposure to cliques of groomers or something. But it's impossible to ignore the unwitting self-conditioning of masturbation, nor the implications of doing so in an endlessly and shapelessly simulated environment. From that perspective trannies are just the most advanced gooners, who have embraced pornography as a total way of life. Thus they freely create it, share it, wear it, spam it in lieu of argument, with no compartmentalization from the rest of their identity. They are limited only according to what the rest of humanity will tolerate.
#67
Tranny here. YWNABW, etc.

This thread has vastly more insight than 99.9% of the takes I've read elsewhere. I've played with most of these angles before, but it is satisfying to see others arrive at similar conclusions independently - particularly those regarding the role of virtuality. This is something I'm actively writing on, and the perspectives here have been insightful.

One point has been missed: Beyond the immediacy of self-regard in AGP, trannies widely fetishize other trannies. This is incredibly persuasive in shaping tranny subcultures - such as 4chan's /tttt/ - and virtually every other tranny space imaginable - particularly hierarchy formation. Often, we come to fetishize trannies long before we transition ourselves. Or we engage in self-insertion fantasies about them. Either way, it instills in us a heightened erotic predisposition towards trannies. Post-transition, autistic shared interests serve to generate romantic commonalities. In this way, erotic desire is bonded to the desire for brotherhood - and though most trannies are not able to name the latter, it remains deeply felt. Deep AGP tranny subcultures - the ones that you don't see outside of private discords - are as autistic and systemizing as this place. They're also unabashedly T4T.

In so far as most (AGP) trannies retain an interest in men, it is largely for narcissistic self-affirmation purposes - and it rarely lasts very long. At two or three years out, the random 4chan 'i'm so straight tranny' discord tranny is called another tranny mommy. The pattern is frequent enough to be justifiably called a law. If you're a moderately okay-looking tranny capable of dampening your autism - there is no lack of chasers or low-mid-status liberal women who will date you for status points. Yet given those options, AGP trannies will largely date exclusively amongst themselves. I believe this had been noted in precursors long ago, such as in the cross-dressing communities of the 70-80s.

It is, in a sense, a misnomer to analogize autistic trannies with their incel counterparts - even though the psychological typographies have some commonalities. Yet where the incel is placed beyond eros, the tranny drowns herself in it. Everything becomes superlatively sexual: from dress, to music, to friendship. At the same point, it is an amorphous and undirected sexuality. More of a mood or a vibe than a directed passion. In this sense, and in that of the preceding paragraphs, it is increasingly becoming more of a lifestyle structure - an entirely self-contained community.
#68
(09-20-2022, 05:03 PM)Guest Wrote: Often, we come to fetishize trannies long before we transition ourselves. Or we engage in self-insertion fantasies about them. Either way, it instills in us a heightened erotic predisposition towards trannies. Post-transition, autistic shared interests serve to generate romantic commonalities. In this way, erotic desire is bonded to the desire for brotherhood - and though most trannies are not able to name the latter, it remains deeply felt. Deep AGP tranny subcultures - the ones that you don't see outside of private discords - are as autistic and systemizing as this place. They're also unabashedly T4T.

This makes me very, very glad that such relationships are categorically incapable of producing offspring. Imagine a child of three or four generations of associative trooning...
#69
(09-20-2022, 09:48 PM)Chud Wrote: This makes me very, very glad that such relationships are categorically incapable of producing offspring. Imagine a child of three or four generations of associative trooning... how far it would diverge from well-formed humanity...

Don't count us out of the game too early. Memetic reproduction will suffice until artificial wombs and embryo-modification take the stage. If we have one advantage here, it is that we are situated to be the earliest adopters of this tech.
#70
Honestly are most troons even interested in sexual reproduction? How many troons will be even interested in family formation? I have to imagine a whole bunch of the sex addicts aren’t going to be super interested in the hard and necessary work of the family.
#71
(09-20-2022, 10:14 PM)MolaRam Wrote: Honestly are most troons even interested in sexual reproduction? How many troons will be even interested in family formation? I have to imagine a whole bunch of the sex addicts aren’t going to be super interested in the hard and necessary work of the family.

Varies wildly. Worth noting that HRT strongly inhibits the sex drive. Trannies talk more about sex than actually having it - probably part as a means to signal their in-group desirability. Most do the open-relationship poly-game for an extended period time, until they get emotionally burned enough. The more intelligent ones quickly re-discover a practical sexual morality and seek committed relationships. This inspires the kind of tranny trad larping you might see on twitter. The retards, by contrast, are still on Grindr until their 30s. Of those that do embrace commitment, a subset inevitably romanticize procreation, being a mother, etc. In general, AGP tranny sexual/dating norms are more akin to lesbians (high intensity passionate romances) - but the general normietran social hierarchies are more akin to that of gay men (competetive, catty, with status completely determined by passability and/or willingness to top).

As for kids myself - Personally, I had zero interest as a teenager, and most of my twenties. After I met my wife, I decided it would be lovely to see her genes continue their march across time. I have no interest in passing on my own. In the next few years, I intend to use one of the rent-a-womb services towards that end.
#72
(09-20-2022, 05:03 PM)Guest Wrote: Tranny here. YWNABW, etc.

[...]
How'd you find yourself here
#73
(09-21-2022, 02:13 AM)chungus Wrote: How'd you find yourself here

In my own way, I also practice internet anthropology. I've been sporadically lurking frogtwitter since 2018. Recently, BAP drew attention to certain accounts, and I followed the breadcrumbs.
#74
(09-20-2022, 05:03 PM)Guest Wrote: Often, we come to fetishize trannies long before we transition ourselves. Or we engage in self-insertion fantasies about them. Either way, it instills in us a heightened erotic predisposition towards trannies. Post-transition, autistic shared interests serve to generate romantic commonalities. In this way, erotic desire is bonded to the desire for brotherhood - and though most trannies are not able to name the latter, it remains deeply felt. Deep AGP tranny subcultures - the ones that you don't see outside of private discords - are as autistic and systemizing as this place. They're also unabashedly T4T.
How do you suppose these fetishes might form? Is it intrinsic in the same way that certain genes and hormonal imbalances in the womb might cause homosexuality, or would you suppose it to be entirely environmental? I've seen a classical twin study that found no hereditary component but otherwise very little research into the causes of transgender identification or gender dysphoria. Also, do you subscribe to Blanchard's AGP/HSTS theory?
#75
(09-21-2022, 08:07 AM)Corvid Wrote: How do you suppose these fetishes might form? Is it intrinsic in the same way that certain genes and hormonal imbalances in the womb might cause homosexuality, or would you suppose it to be entirely environmental? I've seen a classical twin study that found no hereditary component but otherwise very little research into the causes of transgender identification or gender dysphoria. Also, do you subscribe to Blanchard's AGP/HSTS theory?

A few theories. I'll repost some notes I have:

Quote:Mommy issues. This one is a bit modern. The borderline and domineering mother. If the father was in the picture, he was routinely ritually emasculated by her. If not, she cycled through the carousel of boyfriends, tending towards low-tier Norwood IV simps. Taking his mother as his universal example, the boys begin to perceive women as irrational sophists and men as pitiful creatures who grovel for sex. These sterotypes embed themselves deep within his subconscious. Net effect: Masculinity starts to look very unappealing, as does hetrosexuality. At the same point, he perceives plainly the power that women can have over men. Part of him might desire that, even if the idea disgusts him at first.

Rating: 6/10. BPD/domineering mother is a trope repeated way too often. There is some research supporting the BPD correlation, and it is highly supported by personal anecdotal experience.
Quote:Genetics and Biology: Blanchard has presented evidence suggesting that autogynephlic transsexuals have a 1 - 1.5 standard deviation higher IQ.  IQ heritability is estimated at around .6, and there is a plethora of anecdotal evidence circulating the internet that many trannies had fathers who also had predispotions for cross-gender fantasies. We must also note that there exists a handful of studies suggest that many transsexuals have divergent grey matter distributions. Also, there is the well known autism/neurodivergence correlate… many patterns, but (as of now) no solid thread.

Rating: 2/10. Interesting, but requires substantially more evidence to take seriously.
Quote:[...] Like homosexuality, BAP implicitly suggests transsexuality emerges as a reaction to this, at least in the presence of a child with high sensitivity. As BAP largely restricts his discussion to homosexuality, I will attempt an extrapolation for trannies: If the ‘male conception’ of power is perceived as debased and undesirable to the sensitive child, then the ‘female conception’ is ascendant - the power of being desired. In our terms, this generates the entire predisposition for the VDM. Fantasies of being a woman become the escape from bland masculinity. As these become internalized, and eventually sexualized, femininity and submission are elevated to power fantasies. As much as this might seem a contradiction in terms, it is manifest in the intense jealousy that some prodromal trannies feel towards attractive women. We did, if nothing else, come of age in a world of dominant #GirlBosses.
Quote:It is at this juncture, facing these questions, that we can most intuitively re-simulate the experience. Before hormones, before surgery, before any of it — there is just an element of pure raw fantasy. Sometimes it can be sexual, tied to fantasies of having some dude fuck the living shit out of you. Sometimes it may tend towards fetishistic, oriented towards getting turned into an obedient sissy. It is the feeling of looking at the beautiful girl on the bus. Wondering what it would be like to be her. Intense longing. Overcome by unimaginable envy at the thought. And sometimes, just sometimes, it is just the wholesome fantasy of being a wife and mother. No one is the same, and all fantasies come packaged differently.

This is the fundamental point. Virtuality and fantasy are prior to EVERYTHING, and it would be a mistake to regard them as idle. To steal from Gene Wolf:  […] they invent us; we are their creatures, shaped by their hard, defining edges […] it is a profound mistake to believe that we must know of such things to be influenced by them, and in fact to believe so is to believe in the most debased and superstitious kind of magic. The would-be sorcerer alone has faith in the efficacy of pure knowledge; rational people know that things act of themselves or not at all.

As we are not sorcerers, we need not be esoteric on these matters. This process is more mechanical than it first appears seems. And it is more cybernetic than mechanical. Recall the positive feedback loop: The cybernetic process that continually exaggerates and intensifies itself. I believe dysphoria works like that, emerging in repeated iterations of the fantastic process. An example may convey the idea:

>>A young boy who continually retreats into fantasies about being a woman. These fantasies bring him comfort, pleasure, and an escape from the reality of his life. At the same point these fantasies also intensify his desire for escape, inspiring a feeling of brokenness. The boy knows in his heart that he lacks the virility common to all socially successful men. He feels that no woman could ever a love a man who fantasies about being a woman. And faced with his brokenness, he returns to fantasy. More day-dreaming, more wistfulness, and more envy. It all accumulates, until any last sense of masculine self-identity (if there was ever much to begin with) is eroded to the core - vestiges remain. And then he waits, until the moment comes that a divine spark of inspiration comes and tells him to simply cast it all way. Which is to say, all it takes is one bad day.

Forgot to include something directly about AGP - 


Quote:[AGP/HSTS Model]: [...]

Rating: 5/10. Autogynephilia is real. No one sane denies this. The primary issue with the theory is not about the notion of AGP, but about the predictive nature of the entire model itself. Hypothesized from research done in the 1990s, and drew a fairly clear separation between two groups of people based on age and associated interests. Regretfully, its conclusions retained a strong cultural bias to them, reflecting trannies as they existed in that time period. In 2022, the model breaks down. In our time, AGP-class trannies routinely transition between 15-25. There is also a large spectrum of ‘passability’ within this group. Some read entirely as (conventional) women, from voice down to mannerisms/behavior. Others, frankly, do not. The cohorts of this class who transitioned younger remain the most likely to come off as female. At the same point, even the ones who do pass in this group are likely to have more stereotypically male interests - the meme of the tranny programmer/gamer is apparently independent of the age of transition/’passability’. Given this, the effectiveness of AGP as a predictive classifier has been diminished. At the same point, the general correlation between autogynephilic sexuality and tranny status remains; moreover, there is an increasing amount of evidence that HSTS-class trannies themselves exhibit some level of AGP.  Everything is a lot murkier in 2022 than it was in the 90s.
#76
(03-29-2022, 04:21 PM)Chud Wrote:
  • Lingering feelings of depression, listlessness, and miasma; altered states of consciousness brought on by brain-fogging drugs like SSRIs, Benadryl - never stimulants.

The "never stimulants" part is completely wrong though, as someone who has browsed 420chan extensively in the past (out of mainly curiosity), there were MANY trannies in the stimulants board and given the site had a board for trannies too it's safe to say there were manny trannies. That board contained many crazy stories of absolutely tweaked out escapades, and a majority of them sexual given its an easy way for those meth users to pass days by. Trannies extensively are into disassociatives like ketamine or DXM as well. You have to remember many trannies used to be just "weird" hyper online White teens, many of whom would have extensive experience with ADD or ADHD drugs like adderall, vyvanse, and modafinil. What you didn't find on the liquor, opioids, and benzos boards were trannies really. You found older drug users who had experience with dope for too long, alcoholics, and sometimes the odd Chinese businessman discussing his favorite tea and klonopin regimen for the day. Trannies are far more likely to buy synthetic stimulants for cheap on dark markets than they are expensive dope, and they're smart enough to know fentanyl will kill them. Some of the more normlfag ones might take SSRIs or benzos, but really you're looking at mostly adderalled up touhou or some rhythm game playing while taking drags out of some blueraspberry vape and listening to "sewerslvt" type fast music trannies.
#77
(04-01-2022, 03:02 AM)anthony Wrote: Where Amarna and the trannies fundamentally diverge is that we (or at least *I*) try to recognise and understand this severance from the natural rhythm of life. Really I think this *severed* state is what we're talking about when we discuss autism in the 21st century internet. I'm largely writing this post as a prototype for ideas I want to bring up in an eventual thread on that subject.

If troons and chuds are both from the same group but just diverged from each other, (like the hilarious trannycore meme of the fork in the road with a a nice looking castle and an evil looking castle) why is there no tranny equivalent to the Amarna Forum? Or even just Gigachad dialogues? Not everybody understood.
#78
I don’t think trannies are autistic enough to poast on Internet forums that move at literally slower than molasses. Trannies seem to be high speed low drag operators (most of them don’t pass).
#79
(09-22-2022, 05:16 PM)MolaRam Wrote: I don’t think trannies are autistic enough to poast on Internet forums that move at literally slower than molasses. Trannies seem to be high speed low drag operators (most of them don’t pass).

Counter-point: SA's (D&D/Laissez Faire)/Lainchan (or any of the post-Systemspace chans)/Arcadehacking Forums/Emulation Forums. In our time, the majority of activity tends to be confined to Discord. In 2022, serious tranny political theorists are a rare breed, but they didn't use to be (and could be found easily in the mid naughts). Part of the issue is that no one has a clear idea or vision of what a tranny politik/philosophy should be (yet see 'T4T'), so it remains reactive to the right and runs off the steam of the older visions of queer theory. Preeminent voices like Contrapoints are terminal midwits.

It would be nice to have a comprehensive transhumanist vision, augmented by exclusionary/insular subculture - and there are some nascent strands of this amongst tech trannies in the venture capital world, but nothing (as far as I've seen) has manifested. Regretfully, those who share this orientation are very liable to fall into the trappings of rationalism/post-rationalism (see Doll Twitter or the scene around eigenrobot).
#80
(09-22-2022, 01:57 PM)chungus Wrote:
(04-01-2022, 03:02 AM)anthony Wrote: Where Amarna and the trannies fundamentally diverge is that we (or at least *I*) try to recognise and understand this severance from the natural rhythm of life. Really I think this *severed* state is what we're talking about when we discuss autism in the 21st century internet. I'm largely writing this post as a prototype for ideas I want to bring up in an eventual thread on that subject.

If troons and chuds are both from the same group but just diverged from each other, (like the hilarious trannycore meme of the fork in the road with a a nice looking castle and an evil looking castle) why is there no tranny equivalent to the Amarna Forum? Or even just Gigachad dialogues? Not everybody understood.

They aren't creatively sterile. There are troons making breakcore, video game mods, etc. And most Chuds don't have an amarna forum, extremely funny and clever new literary forms, or anything of the like. Most people are boring and retarded. I'd say if anything the connection is strong here, that intelligence does manifest, just in odd neurotic pursuits.


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