Internet Tranny Sociology Thread
(10-15-2022, 07:46 AM)anthony Wrote: Are you familiar with the comedian turned social outcast streamer and cult leader Owen Benjamin? He strikes me as a particularly advanced case. He basically started doing rightward jokes and comedy and reading about conspiracy theories, which started limiting his company and incentivising tight company with weird rightward internetpeople, then he got mindslaved during an interview with the charismatic E. Michael Jones. After this his character took a distinctly religious turn, his streams started getting more and more regular, and his regulars started getting more regular.

I had heard of him in the past, but not the cult-ish bits. That is fascinating. One of the interesting things about such examples, including Fuentes and Tate, is that they all basically came to the party too early. The most successful examples of this model have yet to come, but they will happen within fairly mainstream social networks , which I expect will provide all the necessary tools and integrations to make the experience absolutely seamless - one of the remaining pain points of modern social media.

There is a fascinating political extrapolation here - as most of these new formations will exist within a mainstream corporatized ecosystem, it is likely that content-creators will be increasingly held liable for the behavior of their fanbases. Aside from existing trends towards AI assisted moderation, content-flow shaping, this will likely become one of the primary levers of hidden power in the future. High level influencers who buy into this new model are going to be implicitly tasked with the taming of their fanbase - and this will be notably prevalent on the right. And a good deal of influencers in that arena will likely (if grudgingly) come around to doing so - paying lip service to the current position of the Overton - especially when their ongoing livelihood is at stake.
(10-15-2022, 08:08 AM)Zed Wrote: The most successful examples of this model have yet to come, but they will happen within fairly mainstream social networks , which I expect will provide all the necessary tools and integrations to make the experience absolutely seamless - one of the remaining pain points of modern social media.

I agree, but with a couple more details. I think that mainstream social networks have more powerful effects because they link people more closely by geography than fringe networks. Q-Boomers are a more potent internet-spawned force because they can all just drive up and meet each other easily, because they're all from the same parts of America. And there are a lot of them. These are both because mainstream social networks are for less discerning crowds. As more and more people become socially unfulfilled neurotic cripples one will have an easier and easier time finding more influencers and more of their fellow influenced closer and closer to home, this will make that critical level of life integration more and more possible. And once this starts successfully happening the effect will snowball.

I think you're right that Tate and Fuentes were in this too early, not just that but we all are, in the sense that being an online chooser of culture and identity will likely be a real and supported way to live in the not too distant future. It makes life harder now, but I don't think it'll stay that way. The overly online jumped the gun a bit on abandoning our outdated social order. There isn't much payoff for getting here early.
(10-15-2022, 08:43 AM)anthony Wrote: I agree, but with a couple more details. I think that mainstream social networks have more powerful effects because they link people more closely by geography than fringe networks. Q-Boomers are a more potent internet-spawned force because they can all just drive up and meet each other easily, because they're all from the same parts of America. And there are a lot of them. These are both because mainstream social networks are for less discerning crowds. As more and more people become socially unfulfilled neurotic cripples one will have an easier and easier time finding more influencers and more of their fellow influenced closer and closer to home, this will make that critical level of life integration more and more possible. And once this starts successfully happening the effect will snowball.

Elsewhere on the internet, my wife writes manifestos about the need to create independent isolated strongly-bonded alt-T4T IRL communities, but without the polymorphous communal garbage that atrophies everything it touches. It's incredible how pervasive this desire is, and how readily it appeals to people; even (or perhaps especially) extremely online trannies. A mirror of what one can see at the fringes of nearly every modern subculture.

At a baseline level, trannies (of the mass market variety) have certain advantages over chuds [and other formations] in that localized tranny communities already basically exist everywhere in this country - identity alone is the price of admission. This happens even in places you wouldn't expect them to, such as random shitholes in the middle of Iowa. The downside is that they are near universally populated with extremely low quality people, and have ephemeral and impermanent nature. Never is there any sense of a permanent long-lasting community, a generation of long lasting bonds, let alone any sense of a vision. People come, people go. The real liberation that my wife tends to focus on is the fact that remote-work has made a lot of experimental visions in this area far more possible. 

All of this is to say - although these new communities will be more geographically disperse, and I agree that tools/apps will made enable local manifestations to pop more readily into existence... but I also expect a good deal of geographical movements of different groups to cluster in certain regions/communities. At least amongst those of us who have the privilege of remote-work. There is a fundamental and deep appeal there - of a larger IRL community - beyond just a cluster of a few like-minded people. But it may take individuals, such as Owen Benjamin, to actually get the ball rolling. When the technology finally align with this and people begin to recognize the  profit-potential of total lifestyle commodification, things will start to get incredibly interesting.
(10-14-2022, 07:42 PM)Zed Wrote: Experimentation on the body in the form of extensive surgical modifications, eventually neural implants, is fascinating. I believe it will lead to many horrors, some as of yet unimaginable - and it shall bring a new kind of hell to this world; but is that a good enough reason to turn away from it? I would like to know how far we can go down this path, and how deeply we can assert out will on nature... and... I digress, but... are we genuinely asserting our will on nature?  Or is such experimentation simply the next path selection (read: nature) led us to? I hold to the latter and perceive zero tension here.

Surgery and implants compose the left-handed route  - certainly, the one most glamorized by modern transhumanists - yet eugenics, sterilization programs, and designer embryos form a concurrent right-handed path. And both stand in mutual opposition to those forces which seek to elevate the body to a level of divine sacredness that forbids any conscious tampering. The opposition is that which lavishes human life and the human form with ludicrous value on account of its mere existence, and it denies us a telos towards greatness in immanence.

Yes, I agree. I do not believe that these things (cybernetics, genetic engineering) are bad in and of themselves, but rather that they are improperly oriented in this particular tranny worldview. The height of human advancement and mastery of the world to make your Second Life (which I now realize is what the art on that site reminded me of - must investigate the Second Life-Old Guard Troon connection!) fursona real... disgusting! I dream of a world similar to a mixture of Warhammer 40k and Gene Wolfe's The Book of the New Sun, with a godlike emperor reigning over a vast interstellar empire striated by a complex, weaving, ever-shifting system of castes, ranks, and titles - the apotheosis of the Spanish colonial castas system. All of this will be led by a post-human Nietzschean aristocracy who will manipulate the genes of beast and lesser man alike to create worlds to their liking, beautiful worlds inspired by divine dreams of celestial beauty and adventure, rather than lowly, hedonistic, fetishistic fixations. All extinct beasts shall be resurrected (either cloned or re-built from scratch), cryptids shall be identified, captured, studied, and bred by secret society of imperial occultists, mythological creatures shall be brought to life, and these higher super-men (in both the Nietzschean and the genetic sense) shall even forge new species of their own liking. Millions of underlings, each descended from lineages specifically bred in Hakanian fashion to emphasize their racial uniqueness, will flock to the Colosseum of Mars to watch and cheer as nine-foot-tall hulking nude giant, the altered son of the local duke infused with Yeti and Neanderthal DNA, rends apart saber-tooth cat, Allosaurus, terror-bird, Dimetrodon, wyvern, owlbear, and four-armed hyper-gorilla using only a great broadsword forged from as-of-yet unknown alloy. As reward for his victory the Emperor gifts him an eternally-young loli elf concubine from among his harem, whom the victorious champion impregnates on the spot - the masses erupt into thunderous applause at his completion. But I digress - all this is to say, yes, I agree with your assessment.
(10-21-2022, 10:23 AM)JohnnyRomero Wrote: Yes, I agree. I do not believe that these things (cybernetics, genetic engineering) are bad in and of themselves, but rather that they are improperly oriented in this particular tranny worldview. The height of human advancement and mastery of the world to make your Second Life (which I now realize is what the art on that site reminded me of - must investigate the Second Life-Old Guard Troon connection!) fursona real... disgusting! I dream of a world similar to a mixture of Warhammer 40k and Gene Wolfe's The Book of the New Sun, with a godlike emperor reigning over a vast interstellar empire striated by a complex, weaving, ever-shifting system of castes, ranks, and titles - 

Check out the Red Rising series. It starts as a trashy Hunger Games-ter YA about overthrowing an 'oppressive and cruel' genetically modified aristocracy, which has further genetically modified every subset of society according to it's will. After several books, it oddly becomes apologia for said aristocracy — as the author (via his characters) rediscovers democracy is shit. By the fifth or so book, the reactionaries are consciously written to be the most endearing characters of the entire series.

The rest of your post feels ripped from that universe. It's not nearly as topwit as Wolfe, but it is very fun.
(10-21-2022, 12:29 PM)Guest Wrote: Check out the Red Rising series. It starts as a trashy Hunger Games-ter YA about overthrowing an 'oppressive and cruel' genetically modified aristocracy, which has further genetically modified every subset of society according to it's will. After several books, it oddly becomes apologia for said aristocracy — as the author (via his characters) rediscovers democracy is shit. By the fifth or so book, the reactionaries are consciously written to be the most endearing characters of the entire series.

The rest of your post feels ripped from that universe. It's not nearly as topwit as Wolfe, but it is very fun.

Awesome, will be sure to check it out. Thank you!
(10-13-2022, 07:48 PM)Zed Wrote: RE: the "Transgendered" phenomenon

Their impermanence will simply owe to the fact that the "most Transgendered" castrate themselves as a matter of course. Non-confabulated peoples perpetuate themselves from one generation to the next. On the other hand, "Transgenderism" necessarily has to perpetuate itself via pornography, memes in the female case, etc. It is fake and gay, and utterly contemptible. The "Transgendered" are almost entirely propagandized rubes celebrating their own slavery and castration.

You aren't "married" to a "wife", you're "married" to a debased faggot. You've married yourself to an abject denial of Nature and reality.

Seriously, consider the case of a person who's willingly deformed themself for the sake of "fulfilling" a paraphilia. "Transgenderism" isn't dissimilar from the pursuit of Fat Fetishism.
(10-21-2022, 08:50 PM)GraphWalkWithMe Wrote:
(10-13-2022, 07:48 PM)Zed Wrote: RE: the "Transgendered" phenomenon

Their impermanence will simply owe to the fact that the "most Transgendered" castrate themselves as a matter of course. Non-confabulated peoples perpetuate themselves from one generation to the next. On the other hand, "Transgenderism" necessarily has to perpetuate itself via pornography, memes in the female case, etc. It is fake and gay, and utterly contemptible. The "Transgendered" are almost entirely propagandized rubes celebrating their own slavery and castration.

I could live how I am expected to live - or I can live according to my will. There is no denial of nature here though: everything is permitted and selection (as a law) only governs far-ranging trajectories. On a long enough time scale, I will be reduced to a surgically altered male skeleton. But on a longer one, we will both be dust. I have no particular desire to pass on my seed. And slavery, from my vantage point, would be enacting a suppression of the self in favor of achieving social conformity/harmony - for someone such as myself, living in accordance with amor fati is strictly incompatible with such a life.

Quote:Seriously, consider the case of a person who's willingly deformed themself for the sake of "fulfilling" a paraphilia. "Transgenderism" isn't dissimilar from the pursuit of Fat Fetishism.

People change themselves for many reasons, but dismissing it as paraphilia misses the point. Sex orients and governs life; and as Roissy infamously observed, the only absolute metric for determining if someone is an 'alpha' is the quality and quantity of women who will fuck them. As such, many men spend their youth chasing status purely to increase the quality of women they can fuck. I don't think this is unambiguously a positive thing, as it can distract from higher pursuits (even as the drive towards status sometimes results in those pursuits inadvertently). Children, as a means to legacy, is certainly a higher pursuit than sex, but it is far from the only one - the generation of culture is another. In so far as the paraphilia plays a role, it has to do with the fact it inhibits and alters the formation 'non-confabulated' drives from an early age --- by the time sometime transitions, it is not fulfill the paraphilia - but to make peace with the long-lasting psychological consequences of it, even as they may lack the self-awareness to perceive those consequences. And the denial of it does not entail the restoration of normal drives/desires, which are by that point often non-existent.
First time posting) but I just got to say this Zed guy above me sounds like a coping tranny and should join his other 4\10 brethren in the art of the human chandelier
You guys can keep trying but I'm starting to think Zed won't actually commit suicide in response to forum posts.

Also, this might sound like a stupid question, but what's the original source on 41%? Are we all unthinkingly repeating the rainbow flag equivalent to '6 million'?
“Are we all unthinkingl-ACK!”
(10-22-2022, 01:52 AM)anthony Wrote: You guys can keep trying but I'm starting to think Zed won't actually commit suicide in response to forum posts.

Also, this might sound like a stupid question, but what's the original source on 41%? Are we all unthinkingly repeating the rainbow flag equivalent to '6 million'?

The power of 41%: A glimpse into the life of a statistic (unfortunately not on sci-hub)

Quote:"Forty-one percent?" the man said with anguish on his face as he addressed the author, clutching my handout. "We're talking about my granddaughter here." He was referring to the finding from the National Transgender Discrimination Survey (NTDS) that 41% of 6,450 respondents said they had attempted suicide at some point in their lives. The author had passed out the executive summary of the survey's findings during a panel discussion at a family conference to illustrate the critical importance of acceptance of transgender people. During the question and answer period, this gentleman rose to talk about his beloved 8-year-old granddaughter who was in the process of transitioning socially from male to female in her elementary school. The statistics that the author was citing were not just numbers to him; and he wanted strategies-effective ones-to keep his granddaughter alive and thriving. The author has observed that the statistic about suicide attempts has, in essence, developed a life of its own.
(10-22-2022, 11:45 AM)Chud Wrote:
Quote: the finding from the National Transgender Discrimination Survey (NTDS) that 41% of 6,450 respondents said they had attempted suicide at some point in their lives.

"Had attempted"? It's over...
(10-22-2022, 06:25 PM)anthony Wrote:
(10-22-2022, 11:45 AM)Chud Wrote:
Quote: the finding from the National Transgender Discrimination Survey (NTDS) that 41% of 6,450 respondents said they had attempted suicide at some point in their lives.

"Had attempted"? It's over...

They admit as much - a gem from the methodology of the NTDS study:

Quote:First, the…questionnaire included only a single item about suicidal behavior that asked, “Have you ever attempted suicide?” with dichotomized responses of Yes/No. Researchers have found that using this question alone in surveys can inflate the percentage of affirmative responses, since some respondents may use it to communicate self-harm behavior that is not a “suicide attempt,” such as seriously considering suicide, planning for suicide, or engaging in self-harm behavior without the intent to die …The National Comorbity Survey, a nationally representative survey, found that probing for intent to die through in-person interviews reduced the prevalence of lifetime suicide attempts from 4.6 percent to 2.7 percent of the adult sample … Without such probes, we were unable to determine the extent to which the 41 percent of NTDS participants who reported ever attempting suicide may overestimate the actual prevalence of attempts … In addition, the analysis was limited due to a lack of follow-up questions asked of respondents who reported having attempted suicide about such things as age and transgender/gender non-conforming status at the time of the attempt.

Anecdotally, most suicidal trannies are as like to actually do it as most suicidal women - and far more likely to talk about it endlessly on discord. A strongly histrionic personality trait.
(10-22-2022, 06:44 PM)Zed Wrote: Anecdotally, most suicidal trannies are as like to actually do it as most suicidal women - and far more likely to talk about it endlessly on discord. A strongly histrionic personality trait.

Yes, that's what I had in mind. It's just more crankery and attention whoring.
How accurate is the book The Transgender Industrial Complex?
(12-05-2022, 11:38 AM)Chud Wrote:
(10-12-2022, 12:08 AM)Zed Wrote: Let us roll the concepts of the last section into a shitty acronym. Call it the Virtual Dysphoria Machine - the VDM. An extremely tranny name for an extremely tranny concept. If we allow ourselves to grant that the VDM works in the way prescribed above, then we have gained (some) insight into the process - but not yet the nature of the cause. As a positive feedback loop, we believe the VDM eventually generates intense overwhelming dysphoria. A hatred of the body. But it does not exist in isolation. Instead, it constantly interfaces with the social and is subject to other external and internal forces

What stands out to me here is that all these factors are purely external - "is this what I really want?" or "would transitioning actually make me happy?" aren't factored into the calculus. The desire to troon and appeal of trooning are taken as a given, whereas if I were suddenly possessed by such a desire, I'd question it to the utmost degree.

On an irrational level, desire is just tilted heavily towards it in an inexplicable way. Partly by negation and the lack of desires in any alternative directions. For example, I experimented with watching porn as a teenager, attempting to cultivate a mindset of 'Wouldn't it be hot to fuck the shit out of her?' - but never found that it could stir anything within. I similarly tried to watch gay porn, trying to see if I could just be a 'normal' fag. None of that worked. The mating instinct is just absolutely inverted and transformed into something else entirely. By the time I arrived at seriously considering transition, rather than just day-dreaming about it, I had already twice attempted to generate my own form of conversion therapy and failed. I had also nursed quite low-grade suicidal thoughts for years out of a sense of perceived brokenness; of which, my inclinations were just one aspect - concurrent to constant loneliness and a sense of meaninglessness.

When those thoughts came to a head, transition presented itself as a possible alternative. It was the fourth time I had experienced such a breakdown, and by far the heaviest. After all, if it didn't pan out, the noose was always an option. So to answer the question you would pose: Truthfully, I did not expect it to work, or make me happy. It seemed a bad bet, but it felt as if it was the only card I felt I had left to play.

Of course, all of this is particular to myself and doesn't generalize exactly. The only valid generalization is probably this: Before transition occurs, the desire towards it is present, but not dominant - but it does usually require some kind of deep trauma to bring one from passive day-dreaming to actualization. Often this trauma itself will serve as evidence to justify the decision. A common millennial example: A guy breaks up with his girlfriend, one in a sequence of unsatisfying relationship, and experiences an epiphany. With Zoomers, the generalization doesn't hold quite so strongly, but it still holds to a certain degree.
Own that you chose to break every reasonable normative law because it made you happy and your dick gets hard at the idea of putting up a token struggle as a man 'forces' you to enjoy having gay sex with him. Every tranny who can string a sentence together and reads at least a book a year has at least some of their roots arising from sexual desire. The ones who disagree will endlessly cud-chew on their inherently feminine sexuality in discord servers while posting and jerking off to young feminine boys being castrated and forced to live as women.

Trooning should always be decision made under the power of your will, eschewing the values put before you for ones you placed and charted for yourself. There are obviously inherent elements of sorrow and brokenness that push some to troon, but even in those cases, it's sinful to lionize and enlarge their influence. Creating a narrative about yourself where you are an inherently broken person makes you act like the lesser person you've decided you are. All the best trannies revel in being faggots spurning G-d's law, even if they don't realize that's what they're doing. This isn't a coincidence.

Mentally well individuals do things because they want to, and have decided it would make them happy. (Rationalist cringe ahead, but she's right)
https://thingofthings.wordpress.com/2016/04/11/1327/

There's something Big-R Romantic in the sublime terror of driven to the edge of all that's Holy by the desire you have for your partner, anyways.
This topic is worth exactly as much as pontificating on the tragically inscrutable experiences of people who eat feces or fuck their mothers.
That would be true, if trannies weren't the Jews of the Internet



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