Israel
#1
The state of Israel is probably one of the most maligned in existence. Imagine normie American's sadism towards Russians now that they've invaded Ukraine, stretched out over decades.

The hatred does not cease when one comes into the Right. The TRS/NJP cohort use precisely the same language and tactics as the left in regards to Israel (apartheid state, posting pictures of sad brown girls in rubble, etc.), and this has filtered down into the sub-100 IQ Twitter Right that we all regularly interact with.

I'd like to use this thread as a place to discuss Israel, its place in the world (historically, geopolitically), its goals, its national ideology, and whether one should "support" the state of Israel in general.
#2
I support Israel.
#3
I stand by what I wrote on old amarna. The principles that 99%+ of anti-zionism rests on are principles that will destroy everything we hold dear.
#4
I've said this on Twitter before but Israel is the closest thing to a state founded on national socialist ideals (in so far as it's formally based on the survival of a people against existential threats).

On that basis alone it should be a matter of interest for right wingers to see how such a system plays out in the modern world, though Israel has made many other innovations of their own that must be commended instead of condemned on silly anti colonial grounds.

Formalizing Israel as a specifically Jewish nation state, divorcing immigration from citizenship for non jews, claiming the state will encourage further settlement, early experimentation with eugenics and much more. Israel in many ways is just "our thing" but for Jews and for the life of me I can't tell how you can't admire Zionism even if you dislike Jews as such. My concerns with Israel are purely geopolitical and if they were in Madagascar or whatever I wouldn't have cared less about them.
#5
I posted some excerpts from this book The Territorial Imperative when Israel came up in the wignat thread on old Amarna. I’ll post some again since I think it’s an interesting perspective on Jews and Israel.


Quote:According to the computer, the story goes like this: For a very long time human nature has been playing a grotesque joke on Jew and Gentile alike. He and we have joined in regarding him as a race. And yet he has less racial distinctiveness than the southern Italian or the Swede. He is a descendant of a mixed bag of Middle Eastern tribes, as I am a descendant of a mixed bag of Scottish clans, and he has no more genetic distinction than you or I or the next man. But nevertheless there has existed a profound difference between us. We have had territories, he has had none. Among modern, civilized peoples he has been unique. And what we have described as a Jew has been nothing other than a de-territorialized man
Quote:The Jew was different, let there be no doubt. And he maintained that difference with unflagging resolution. We regarded him as a race apart; it was to Jewish interest to agree. We derided the "Jewish personality"; he exaggerated the personality. None of us guessed, of course, he or we, that the "Jewish personality" was nothing but a bundle of mannerisms preserving the identity of a de-territorialized man. And then came Zionism
Quote:Third, such an astonishing reversal of what we had always regarded as the "Jewish personality" should have shaken the West. It did. From that date in 1948 anti-Semitism may have retained a nostalgia or two, but it ceased to be a workable institution. We flatter ourselves that the Hitler outrages awakened the conscience of mankind. They did nothing of the sort. I recall that in America immediately after World War II anti-Semitism reached peaks never before attained, despite all Nazi contributions to our universal conscience; and the literature of the period will bear me out. It was the photographs of dead Arabs, not of cremated Jews, that awakened our famed conscience. It was in 1948 that a stunned world realized that Jews could behave just like anyone else
Quote:Fifth, a most important point. If the Jew never existed but was simply a de-territorialized man, then in theory he should cease to be a Jew when he becomes re-territorialized. When you visit Israel you will discover that it is the new nation's favorite joke. There is the story of the visiting French-Jewish doctor met on the dock at Haifa by a friend. The doctor looked in puzzlement at the barrel-chested porters throwing luggage around. "Who are they?" he asked. "Jews," said his host.

It is not just physique. It is posture, a manner of walking, a manner of speaking, a manner of thought. The "Jewish personality" has vanished, replaced by that of the Israeli, a being as confident, as resolute, and as willing to do battle as a roebuck on his wooded acres. You go to a party in Tel-Aviv and someone asks the inevitable question, "How do you like Israel?" and you answer, "Fine. But where are the Jews?" And the party goes off into the greatest laughter, for it is the nation's joke
Quote:Sixth, if territory has transmuted the Jew, physically and psychically, into another being called the Israeli, then in theory there should be a widening breach between the Israeli and the Jew of the Diaspora. The breach is far from theoretical; it is regarded by many in Israel as the second most severe problem that the new nation suffers. Many a thoughtful British or American or Continental Jew reproaches the Israeli as a chauvinist, as a man who has lost his world view and no longer acts according to his conscience, as one who has somehow betrayed the most profound ideals of a people. To the Israeli, his fellow of the Diaspora is a moralizer whose sermons if put into practice would mean death to Israel. Since it has been the financial generosity of world Jewry which has made Zion possible, there is anguish on both sides. What neither understands is that natural law has intervened; that they are no longer the same people sharing the same conscience and the same amity-enmity complex. Life would be easier for both if they understood
Quote:The same division between Jew and Israeli witnessed a heart-rending demonstration during the Eichmann trial. I had not anticipated it with my theoretical list, but the Israeli elders with their intuitions had, for they dreaded what would happen when the inevitable documentation of Nazi atrocities unfolded. The dread was well founded. As the trial progressed, the bewildered young people -- the sabras, the Israeli-born -- confronted their parents in household after household. "Why didn't you do something?" "You don't understand," said the parents, "there was nothing to do." "But if you were going to die -- if somebody knew he was going to die anyway -- why didn't he die fighting?" "You don't understand," said the parents. And it is true that the sabra will never understand, for unlike the Jew of the gas chamber, he is a territorial animal


This reminds me of the categorical distinction between Jew and Gentile in Mitchel Heisman, but I think it holds up better than Heisman's idea of technological vs biological evolution. The Israeli reverts to being essentially a gentile, pursuing a normal 'evolutionary strategy' rather than the Jewish one.
#6
Being "against" Israel is tacitly admitting that the post-WW2 stasis world order is morally righteous and should be mantained. Israel is as legitimate as any other nation whose people settled on a territory and managed to assert their authority over it through different means, including warfare.
#7
The most entertaining book on this was 'The Wandering Who' by Gilad Atzmon
#8
(03-06-2022, 11:13 PM)anthony Wrote: I stand by what I wrote on old amarna. The principles that 99%+ of anti-zionism rests on are principles that will destroy everything we hold dear.

I think this is an important point to make: disregarding my disdain for Jews and the role Israel-obsession plays in the United States, the popular version of the anti-zionist movement is in no way on my side. They dislike Israel for being an Apartheid State that looks out for its own people to the detriment of 'civil rights,' engages in the sterilization of (Ethiopian) immigrants that are ethnically different, and fiercely defends its territories from who they see as an existential enemy. These are essentially all things I support, it just happens to be done by Jews, whom I hate. Also worth noting Israel is incredibly fag friendly, so the ethno-centrism is basically where any admiration I have for them ends.

I'm not sure I'll ever be fully Pro-Zionist, but one thing I cannot support is the incredibly pozzed Pro-Palestine movement in the US. I'm not sure how popular the Palestinian shit is in other countries, but it's something that's extremely popular with progressives here, so unless you're coming at anti-zionism from an explicit '1488 Gas the Kikes' perspective you're going to be grouped in with these types, who are the scum of the Earth imho.
#9
Israel is fag-friendly, as is every country with actual civilization in it. Unfortunate aspect of the times, but I can't hold it against Israel.
#10
Israel.
#11
As someone who dislikes both the Israelis and the Palestinians, I think the greatest 'solution' to the 'Israel problem' as an American would be to stop providing them with funding for their Iron Dome program. As it stands, the Israelis are able to deal with attacks from Palestinians and respond in a rather peaceful manner, given the fact that they regularly have fucking bombs launched at them by crazed Islamists. Since these bombs rarely ever kill anyone thanks to the Iron Dome, Israeli response is greatly limited. United States Progressives even criticize the few bombs that Israel decides to lobs back at the West Bank, and enter a fit of hysteria if a poor Palestinian happens to die after launching a dozen missiles at Jerusalem.

What this leaves us with is a slow process where Israelis expand their settlements into the Palestinian occupied territories, which slowly shrink year after year, and ever more desperate Palestinians launch even more attacks at the Jews, and this cycle continues ad nauseum until somewhere down the line, the Israelis will occupy the last Palestinian home without a major fight ever occurring. To paraphrase Eliot, "this is the way the world ends. This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a whimper." And what fun is there in letting a centuries old blood feud end in a fucking whimper??

What I offer instead, is real consequences. If the US stopped funding the Iron Dome, Palestinian missiles would evaporate Jews by the dozen. The stakes would be real for Israelis, who couldn't simply pussyfoot around by destroying a single building after an attack. They'd have to go to all out war against the Palestinians. Without the Iron Dome, the Jews would be forced to take the kiddy gloves off and deal with the Palestinians like they were in actual insurgent force that threatened them. Both parties would be forced to greatly escalate tensions, and IT WOULD ALL GO OUT WITH A BANG. Palestinians and Jews would fight a fierce but short battle for control over the Holy Land, and the World would be its witness. 

In addition to the violence and war kino, I'd be happy for the US to finally decouple itself from the kikes and not have to support them militarily in the region. Or, at the very least, it would force Israel to be an actual self-sufficient partner that brought something to the table. I'm simply tired of living in a Nation so willing to constantly do Israel's bidding, for seemingly very little in return.
#12
As much as I'd like to see Leverkühn's proposal come to fruition, there is simply too much jewry afoot in our administrative state for anything like this to be remotely feasible for the foreseeable future. A strategy I would like to see from the right in the short term is a "lean in" to our relationship with Israel to demand similar ethnocentrism. People like Ann Coulter do this with some effectiveness.

Another interesting aspect of Israel is that it doesn't have a written constitution. In fact, I believe it consulted with Schmitt in setting up its state structure, or at the very least you can see his influence in its structure, and as such it comes much closer to reflecting a right wing theory of sovereignty than other states.
#13
Israel should have been left to freely occupy the Palestinian territory and expel people from it after it won the Arab-Israeli War (any of them). This idea of keeping obvious sources of conflict in stasis forever is terrible and should be actively fought.
#14
Off the top of my head their policies on the only recognized marriages being of religious ceremonies was a smart way to avoid too much miscegenation. As it pertains to the founding, it was founded by anti-colonial marauders that sought to buddy up with their cousin Ishmael, this of course didn't come to fruition. The emergence of the state relied on Fascist trained militias to instigate Stalinist Ethnicity policies, the Nakbah is reminiscent of the Volga Deutsch dispossession. Worst of all they lynched and bombed British colonial officers. Nonetheless, as Weev put it, the Palestinians are the TWP of the ayrab world and have alienated any possible ally from black September to Hamas declaring jihad against Assad. Ideally, the Israelis will be demographically overwhelmed given their cousin's shenanigans and failure to submit to the true faith. Anyways, I'd recommend everyone reads the original Zionists like Herzl & Nordau, the level of ethnic self loathing would give Du Bois a run for his money.
#15
(03-06-2022, 10:47 PM)Earth Rabbit Wrote: I support Israel for the most part. May 2021 finally convinced me.

BAP's essay titled "Israel's Problem" is good. I recommend sharing it with Right Wing friends who are staunchly anti-Israel.

I too enjoyed that essay very much. Israel as a continuation of a British imperial project.
#16
I love Israel!
#17
Beyond Jews being cursed by God to utter destruction for their messianic betrayal, I do not support Israel simply because they are rude, unpleasant people. Tel Aviv is basically San Francisco but inhabited by New Yorkers (you step off the plane after 14 hours and it feels like you've gone nowhere), whereas the Palestinians are quite charming and hospitable by comparison. The air in Nablus - infamous among Israelis for its propagation of young terrorists - is the most jovial I've seen, whereas Tiberias, the Hebrews' jewel, is an awful smothering swamp. Similar but more dramatic to travelling between Dublin and Copenhagen, a place to which I never wish to return. Perhaps then the Nords would see differently.
#18
Quote:Beyond Jews being cursed by God to utter destruction for their messianic betrayal, I do not support Israel simply because they are rude, unpleasant people. Tel Aviv is basically San Francisco but inhabited by New Yorkers (you step off the plane after 14 hours and it feels like you've gone nowhere), whereas the Palestinians are quite charming and hospitable by comparison. The air in Nablus - infamous among Israelis for its propagation of young terrorists - is the most jovial I've seen, whereas Tiberias, the Hebrews' jewel, is an awful smothering swamp. Similar but more dramatic to travelling between Dublin and Copenhagen, a place to which I never wish to return. Perhaps then the Nords would see differently.

I can't say what going to either feels like, Egypt is really the only place in the MENA region I'd really like to visit. The Palestinians always seemed like the Niggers of the Arab world to me.

Edit: And again, the Jews are Jews. I don't think I need to say anything more. This is why I will continue to support an idealized future of mutual destruction for both, as unlikely as it is. The Egyptians can conquer whatever remains.
#19
I don't have much regard for the Egyptians, but much of that is probably just their darker coloration and geographical association with the more westward North African substrate - as far as I know Moroccans are widely recognized as the lowest of the Arabs, a nation of petty thieves. The Levantine and Babylonian races have only impressed me for the most part, despite the occasionally strange physiognomy or two, maybe owing in part to some Gilgamesh romanticism or childhood impression of being rugged and wartorn. The Syrians, based on very limited experience (and not to hold it against them) seem to live up to their sort of effeminate reputation dating back at least to Roman times.

(The Israel and Islam threads have merged, oh dear)
#20
Israel is a White society. You may not think it is, but everyone besides obscure and esoteric right wingers does, and so does every single one of the brown-skinned illiterate retards lined up outside their borders, trying to destroy it. How can I advocate for its destruction in good conscience?



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