List of Pro-Androgenic supplements

[FruitVendor]

I would advice against redlining the endocrine system 24/7 however the modern man is bombarded to the point of chemical castration I'm putting together a little list of supplements I've used that have had a noticeable effect outside of lifestyle factors (bodyfat%, sleep, diet & sun). I will provide a brief description next to each bulletpoint pointing out if it raises androgenicity via estradiol antagonism, HPTA - Axis stimulation or lowering stress hormones etc. 

Ranking system of stars ranging from 1-5, with 5 being the most potent


****L. reuteri - Fertility, probiotic
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3879365/

**Ashwaganda - lowering stress hormones, Fertility 
https://www.ergo-log.com/human-study-ash...level.html

**Boron - Vitamin, anti estrogen 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4712861/

*Aspirin - lowering stress hormones 
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17497588/

**Coffee - anti estrogen
https://www.ergo-log.com/more-testostero...nkers.html

***Tongkat Ali (Eurycoma longifolia) - Fertility 
https://www.ergo-log.com/men-in-their-tw...r-day.html

*Grapeseed Extract - anti estrogen
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4932855/

****DIM-100 - anti estrogen
https://fortwaynephysicalmedicine.com/bl...its-of-dim

*****Menaquinone-4 - Vitamin
https://www.ergo-log.com/vitk2testosterone.html


That's it for all the stuff I've taken that has had a noticeable effect. You could write a thread alone on Vitamin K2/Vit D. 

The chemical route of taking clomid or even HCG (high risk of shutdown) will elevate your estrogens and anecdotally give you the likelihood of birthing more daughters. Cialis supposedly makes the body more androgenic but the ocular damage risk is more worrying and I genuinely felt awful taking it, on par with a hangover.

[BillyONare]

@FruitVendor Do you know anything about Cabergoline? Some people on incel forums sweared by it. Increases dopamine and suppresses prolactin. I would be very worried about shutdown or tolerance-like effects. Also I think someone said it is poisonous but there is a newer version that is not but has the same benefits. Thank you for pointing out that clomid and HCG cause shutdown. Most people are completely ignorant of this and will even argue fiercely with you if you tell them this.

[FruitVendor]

@FruitVendor Do you know anything about Cabergoline? Some people on incel forums sweared by it. Increases dopamine and suppresses prolactin. I would be very worried about shutdown or tolerance-like effects. Also I think someone said it is poisonous but there is a newer version that is not but has the same benefits. Thank you for pointing out that clomid and HCG cause shutdown. Most people are completely ignorant of this and will even argue fiercely with you if you tell them this.

Dopamine agonists should not be messed around with imo. I took prami and within 20 minutes I had coldsweats, heart was racing and nausea that lasted more than one day to the point where I couldn't get up to the toilet I just rolled on one side and threw up off the bed.

I did the infamous 4chan "Dopamine fast" for ~12 days and that was a good reset. People take things like caber so they can have no refractory period after sex or deal with 19nor sides but it can apparently cause heart damage I'd stay away from it. I should have noted that clomid treats a shutdown endocrine system by essentially redlining the hpta, spiking LH/FS. A sudden spike in hormones is dangerous for a natural and can cause some longterm consequences. If you inject HCG you can also become dependent on it.

Overall the erroneous method of focusing on getting the highest testosterone possible isn't ideal, this line of thinking comes from bloodtests giving a brief snapshot of someone's hormonal profile when what really matters is health markers and ratios because this is what matters longterm.

[kenfresn0]

Good thread, i'm not sure much can be done though, and weaseling around the issue with 'supplements' rather than just using kuda steroids probably just leads to shit efficacy and imprecision

I can vouch for Tongkat Ali having an appreciable effect (nootropics depot's low strength formula, two caps once a day). Made me very greasy, hectic body odour, get pimples, and 'concupiscent'. IIRC, tongkat works on SHBG, and there was no sign of shutdown in the mice or whatever shit studies they did. Some users reported getting sensitive nips and bony pain. I took one bottle and stopped.
I'm skeptical and conservative about using explicitly anti-estrogenic compounds but don't know anything about them. Maybe something is needed to counteract pathetic modern T levels.
If you're just aiming to touch grass and have sex, then take cialis, your dick won't need you anymore.
I took maca ages ago, did nothing. Same with ashwaghanda, but I'm gonna trial some of ND's shoden and sensoril soon.

I wouldn't take aspirin frequently, GI mucosa will suffer, pretty classic cause of ulcers. It seems to be floating around atm as an esoteric one-neat-trick, even though it was boomer mainstream ("everyone should take baby aspirin daily!"), but is no longer recommended. Outside of specific CVD populations, it increases all-cause mortality, not just through bleeding risk. Talk of 'stress hormones' and 'antiinflammatories' is no good to us when there are so many off-target effects.

Re: cabergoline, Ldopa, prami, I've not taken parkinson's meds like that, what is the idea there? No one abuses them and the side effects are notoriously bad. Even L-tyrosine made me feel anxious and sick. Whereas I'm a huge fan of dex and meth amph. @BillyONare you might have more joy with buproprion

Neurotransmitters do different things in different places, it is generally incoherent to talk about them at the level of the organism, and reddit to try add skill points to serotonin etc.. IMO, Peatcels do a wydna-like confirmation bias routine, diabetic erudition--a sea of citations with juicy sounding hooks, but with no regard or understanding of the overall clinical picture. An epistemology that comes from having no skin in the game

[Pickles]

Any chance you could elaborate on the dosages?

I known from taking Boron, that the recommendations online are kind of light - a lot or sources say 3, 4 or 6 whatever.  I took 10 or 12 mg a day for it to work noticably.  You could save me the time and experimentation with some good starting points.

[BillyONare]

@kenfresn0 I have not tried it and would recommend against it, but a few people on lookism swore it was the best thing ever. It greatly increases dopamine and lowers prolactin which makes lots of sober activities highly enjoyable. It has very interesting psychological effects. Users report that they have zero urge to drink alcohol or use other drugs, but they become highly addicted/fascinated by activities like gambling, video games, sex, and pornography (remind you of anyone?).

[Svevlad]

If you want to aspirinmaxx - dissolve in water, mix with a little baking soda. Negates most of the harmful effects, but makes it taste like stanky mineral spring water

[Exile]

You can also get aspirin powder if you want smaller doses or want it without impurities. I use the one from health natura.

https://healthnatura.com/aspirin-powder-usp-60g/

[kenfresn0]

@BillyONare worth pointing out that dopamine itself inhibits prolactin (it also goes by the name prolactin inhibiting hormone), not sure why prolactin made its way onto Peat's memelist. That 'ragnar' twitter peater was scapegoating prolactin for norwooding, nonsense as usual. Hyperprolactinaemia due to pituitary adenomas, or antipsychotic meds, does not cause balding.
Experimenting with dopaminergics is generally good I think, but LDOPA without carbidopa has pretty bad side effects, you don't want dopamine acting peripherally. Also you will downregulate, so when you stop taking the LDOPA you'll be an anhedonic spud. It would also be a shame if you ended up getting Parkinsons and had already used up LDOPA's usefulness trying to minmaxx goon sessions.
Just caffeine and modafinilmaxx IMO. Maybe try racetams, they didn't work for me but do for some.

RE: aspirin, it is a misconception that the adverse effects on the gut are due to local impact of the tablets on the mucosa. IV COX inhibitors cause the same thing. GI damage is largely due to the systemic suppression of prostaglandins, causing loss of blood flow and protective mucus production etc.. Realistically a young healthy person will not have any issues (or any benefits). Tiny doses brick your platelets (dunno why you or I would want that), and higher doses behave more like standard NSAIDs. Peat's claims that people take massive doses for cancer and inflammatory arthridites is a meme, also PPIs would be given to offset GI risk.

[Trep]

Peat's claims that people take massive doses for cancer and inflammatory arthridites is a meme

"I'll be sure to do it then. I love memes haha"

[kenfresn0]

"based as usual!"

[dairydeity]

Ray peat is a NIGGER !!! And he is so old he is going to DIE SOON !!!!!!

[Guest]

^The poster above me will be struck by lightning in 337 days. 1 hour before the incident a loved one will send a bizarre message to you.

[rockies]

I'm going to try cordyceps, lion's mane, aspirin, all in one accursed swampwater drink. I have great optimism for the mixture- I do notice a mental difference with high-quality, low-filler lion's mane. I've never noticed benefits from Ashwaganda, but I could have been taking sawdust pills for all I know.

[MolaRam]

Steroid powders are incredibly cheap and available shipped direct to your door. If you are looking to increase your test it would probably behoove you to just look into have the powder shipped to you and then formulating either pills or butt juice. You can also pretty easily get access to steroids nowadays through online doctor consults (the same low effort and minimally tracked method as all the troons get) through the same people who do boner doctor pill referrals or other dubious doctor tricks.

Me on the other hand; I prefer using some coffee, a bit of red meat and some sun time (touching grass helps) to get test higher. It has been working for quite a few years for me.

[Hamamelis]

I ordered K2 but it's MK7, MK4 seems to be impossible to get here. What are the differences in effect?

[Muskox]

Ray peat is a NIGGER !!! And he is so old he is going to DIE SOON !!!!!!

"What did he know?"

[NuclearAbsolutist]

Ray peat is a NIGGER !!! And he is so old he is going to DIE SOON !!!!!!

"What did he know?"

The time gap between that post and his death is not what I would define as soon.

[Guest]

If you take supplements beyond some basic vitamins in comparably low doses, you are fucking with forces larger than you, especially if it's stuff that interacts with hormones. Don't be stupid niggers.

[Guest]

sauerkraut