Maximising focus, intelligence and work ethic
#1
In a similar vein to the “sharpening of the will” thread, but concerning more specifically academic or workplace success. 
If we want our side to win we need to get as many people into the upper ranks of society where unfortunately leftists thrive, as the world is catered for midwits.

I’ve seen many people, myself included struggle with this unbearable feeling when forced to do something that doesn’t immediately interest them, and at the same time no amount of discipline seems to work and only makes the attitude towards work worse.

I realise it’s a difficult situation with no clear cut answer but I’m hoping this could serve as a thread to discuss anything ranging from increasing intelligence/raw IQ, and sharing advice if anyone who's gone through a similar feeling has managed to surmount it…
#2
I find that denial of immediate gratification helps to increase energy levels notably. I was raised Catholic and giving up the usual dopamine sinks for lent improves my mood, focus and general output within a week. That in itself does not increase intelligence but denial of the will in pursuit of something higher steels willpower immensely. And that has a trickle down effect into all aspects of life. If you look at successful religious but also secular movements throughout history you will find that they all preach austerity in pursuit of a higher goal. The Jesuits, the Nazis, early Islam, early Russian communism, whatever one might think of them, they all demanded hardship in pursuit of the greater good.
#3
(02-26-2023, 11:57 AM)arms_race Wrote: I find that denial of immediate gratification helps to increase energy levels notably. I was raised Catholic and giving up the usual dopamine sinks for lent improves my mood, focus and general output within a week. That in itself does not increase intelligence but denial of the will in pursuit of something higher steels willpower immensely. And that has a trickle down effect into all aspects of life. If you look at successful religious but also secular movements throughout history you will find that they all preach austerity in pursuit of a higher goal. The Jesuits, the Nazis, early Islam, early Russian communism, whatever one might think of them, they all demanded hardship in pursuit of the greater good.

I’ve heard of monks who go on retreats somewhere in Tibet for a minimum for three years in a cabin doing nothing but meditation, giving them control over their brain’s gamma waves, something I’d definitely want to try.
#4
(02-26-2023, 10:11 AM)Grimm Wrote: In a similar vein to the “sharpening of the will” thread, but concerning more specifically academic or workplace success. 
If we want our side to win we need to get as many people into the upper ranks of society where unfortunately leftists thrive, as the world is catered for midwits.

I’ve seen many people, myself included struggle with this unbearable feeling when forced to do something that doesn’t immediately interest them, and at the same time no amount of discipline seems to work and only makes the attitude towards work worse.

I realise it’s a difficult situation with no clear cut answer but I’m hoping this could serve as a thread to discuss anything ranging from increasing intelligence/raw IQ, and sharing advice if anyone who's gone through a similar feeling has managed to surmount it…

Unfortunately boredom and intolerance of tedium are not bugs of intelligence, they are features. I really don't believe that there is a way over this in general that doesn't constitute a debasement of your own nature in some way. The upper ranks of society aren't a meritocracy. You aren't going to get there by being better.

If you want to "increase your intelligence" the answer is pretty much the opposite to what's needed to succeed and get ahead in life. Do you want an ability to focus on things which don't interest you, or do you want to get smarter? I don't think you're getting both.

First, what does an increased intelligence look like? The most meaningful thing we can do is get better at thinking. That's an effective increase in intelligence even if you haven't become smarter. And I believe that this comes from leaning into your own nature. I've spoken to a few people who have described having a kind of mental riding the bike moment where they start to feel like they can put together coherent thoughts and stand out when talking. I feel like I had this kind of experience myself after years of trying to think and being more or less retarded and incapable of serious thought. How I think one gets to this point, riding the bike, is developing self-trust and self-sympathy sufficient to start thinking wilfully. Almost like a child again.

I want to come back and elaborate, but also want to post somewhere else about some other stuff first. Remind me later if I forget.

(02-26-2023, 11:57 AM)arms_race Wrote: I find that denial of immediate gratification helps to increase energy levels notably. I was raised Catholic and giving up the usual dopamine sinks for lent improves my mood, focus and general output within a week. That in itself does not increase intelligence but denial of the will in pursuit of something higher steels willpower immensely. And that has a trickle down effect into all aspects of life. If you look at successful religious but also secular movements throughout history you will find that they all preach austerity in pursuit of a higher goal. The Jesuits, the Nazis, early Islam, early Russian communism, whatever one might think of them, they all demanded hardship in pursuit of the greater good.

You're more or less saying that will gets stronger when denied and neglected. Does that not sound wrong to you? Like you're maybe talking about two different things when you say that denial of "will"steels "willpower"? Yes you say "in pursuit of something higher" but doesn't that just mean it's what you want, or what you "will"?

If you look at successful movements through history you will find willful leaders and disciplined followers. Hitler was not a vegetarian because he read marcus aurelius and believed good food was for greedy entitled babies. He probably wouldn't have eaten meat at gunpoint. He didn't like the idea of hurting animals so he found eating meat distasteful. Nazism was built on Hitler being uniquely driven by what he wanted. Does this not also seem true of Mao, Mohamed, etc?

And this wilfulness at the top then naturally leads to discipline below. A wilful leader will be particular and demanding, and due to their self-possessedness, they will often be very compelling.
#5
(02-28-2023, 06:12 AM)anthony Wrote:
(02-26-2023, 10:11 AM)Grimm Wrote: In a similar vein to the “sharpening of the will” thread, but concerning more specifically academic or workplace success. 
If we want our side to win we need to get as many people into the upper ranks of society where unfortunately leftists thrive, as the world is catered for midwits.

I’ve seen many people, myself included struggle with this unbearable feeling when forced to do something that doesn’t immediately interest them, and at the same time no amount of discipline seems to work and only makes the attitude towards work worse.

I realise it’s a difficult situation with no clear cut answer but I’m hoping this could serve as a thread to discuss anything ranging from increasing intelligence/raw IQ, and sharing advice if anyone who's gone through a similar feeling has managed to surmount it…

Unfortunately boredom and intolerance of tedium are not bugs of intelligence, they are features. I really don't believe that there is a way over this in general that doesn't constitute a debasement of your own nature in some way. The upper ranks of society aren't a meritocracy. You aren't going to get there by being better.

If you want to "increase your intelligence" the answer is pretty much the opposite to what's needed to succeed and get ahead in life. Do you want an ability to focus on things which don't interest you, or do you want to get smarter? I don't think you're getting both.

First, what does an increased intelligence look like? The most meaningful thing we can do is get better at thinking. That's an effective increase in intelligence even if you haven't become smarter. And I believe that this comes from leaning into your own nature. I've spoken to a few people who have described having a kind of mental riding the bike moment where they start to feel like they can put together coherent thoughts and stand out when talking. I feel like I had this kind of experience myself after years of trying to think and being more or less retarded and incapable of serious thought. How I think one gets to this point, riding the bike, is developing self-trust and self-sympathy sufficient to start thinking wilfully. Almost like a child again.

I want to come back and elaborate, but also want to post somewhere else about some other stuff first. Remind me later if I forget.
When I imagine future generations living under the privilege of a world ruled by us, I'm not opposed to sacrificing my own nature, though I agree that might be actually counter-productive.

I worded my first post badly, I meant to suggest "increasing intelligence" as a way to double down on the strengths of already smart people while not trying to go against their nature, but to be of any relevance in society they should still be interested in useful subjects... Perhaps this is a pipe dream but I find it to be an urgent issue as everyone who hates us has their place in society, while a lot of us don't.
For me personally developing the ability to focus on things that I don't find interesting is my priority specifically for this reason, making a change from within.
Winning from inside the system seems like the most likely option, even if making changes that wait is slow and difficult. After that, creating a system that rewards personalities that are prone to boredom is a must, without them we wouldn't push frontiers.

What do you mean exactly by self-trust? Not believing imposter-syndrome and such?
#6
(02-28-2023, 06:12 AM)anthony Wrote: You're more or less saying that will gets stronger when denied and neglected. Does that not sound wrong to you? Like you're maybe talking about two different things when you say that denial of "will"steels "willpower"? Yes you say "in pursuit of something higher" but doesn't that just mean it's what you want, or what you "will"?

If you look at successful movements through history you will find willful leaders and disciplined followers. Hitler was not a vegetarian because he read marcus aurelius and believed good food was for greedy entitled babies. He probably wouldn't have eaten meat at gunpoint. He didn't like the idea of hurting animals so he found eating meat distasteful. Nazism was built on Hitler being uniquely driven by what he wanted. Does this not also seem true of Mao, Mohamed, etc?

And this wilfulness at the top then naturally leads to discipline below. A wilful leader will be particular and demanding, and due to their self-possessedness, they will often be very compelling.

I think this is basically true, but what about things like the battle of Marathon, where the soldiers ran for many many miles, undergoing pain and suffering for the promise of future glory? What about where Hitler had to swallow his pride and shake hands with people he hated for political gain, or where we all have to hide our power level in public? We don't want to do these things but we force ourselves to because we know they lead to something that's worth the suffering in the future. Sometimes we don't have the strength to do these things and we chimp out or we struggle to hide how much we hate it, our performance suffers. Nevertheless even the greatest man has to do these things sometimes, and the question is how do we do them better? Or should we avoid such things as much as possible? 

I force myself to tediously drill Latin vocab every day because I know that understanding Latin will be worth it. I genuinely believe there is no better way to achieve this goal so I just do it without wanting to. Should I stop doing this? I know it produces good results and there is no other way to achieve my goal, so it's hard to abandon the idea of will-denial being ineffective or slavish. Even Nietzsche admits that asceticism is attractive for philosophers because it produces good conditions for doing philosophy. The fact is will-denial has helped me affirm other instances of my will, and without that tool I don't think I would be nearly as joyful as I am today.
#7
(02-28-2023, 07:44 PM)Guest Wrote:
(02-28-2023, 06:12 AM)anthony Wrote: You're more or less saying that will gets stronger when denied and neglected. Does that not sound wrong to you? Like you're maybe talking about two different things when you say that denial of "will"steels "willpower"? Yes you say "in pursuit of something higher" but doesn't that just mean it's what you want, or what you "will"?

If you look at successful movements through history you will find willful leaders and disciplined followers. Hitler was not a vegetarian because he read marcus aurelius and believed good food was for greedy entitled babies. He probably wouldn't have eaten meat at gunpoint. He didn't like the idea of hurting animals so he found eating meat distasteful. Nazism was built on Hitler being uniquely driven by what he wanted. Does this not also seem true of Mao, Mohamed, etc?

And this wilfulness at the top then naturally leads to discipline below. A wilful leader will be particular and demanding, and due to their self-possessedness, they will often be very compelling.

I think this is basically true, but what about things like the battle of Marathon, where the soldiers ran for many many miles, undergoing pain and suffering for the promise of future glory? What about where Hitler had to swallow his pride and shake hands with people he hated for political gain, or where we all have to hide our power level in public? We don't want to do these things but we force ourselves to because we know they lead to something that's worth the suffering in the future. Sometimes we don't have the strength to do these things and we chimp out or we struggle to hide how much we hate it, our performance suffers. Nevertheless even the greatest man has to do these things sometimes, and the question is how do we do them better? Or should we avoid such things as much as possible? 

I force myself to tediously drill Latin vocab every day because I know that understanding Latin will be worth it. I genuinely believe there is no better way to achieve this goal so I just do it without wanting to. Should I stop doing this? I know it produces good results and there is no other way to achieve my goal, so it's hard to abandon the idea of will-denial being ineffective or slavish. Even Nietzsche admits that asceticism is attractive for philosophers because it produces good conditions for doing philosophy. The fact is will-denial has helped me affirm other instances of my will, and without that tool I don't think I would be nearly as joyful as I am today.

The people you're describing above are suffering pain and discomfort for the sake of other goals which are immediately and viscerally connected to the present pain. It's easy to grit your teeth and endure pain when painful death and/or conquest are bearing down upon you. It's easy to exercise some social tact when you're on a path towards mastery of Europe. What OP is asking, and what most of the internet is concerned with when asking about will and discipline, is "how do I resist my natural revulsion towards slave-toil?" Getting through your engineering course at shitcollege so that you can one day afford your own pod and thai wife with 50 hours of toil a week are not comparable to the examples being invoked here.

>we chimp out
Resistance to toil is a human trait. Have you been reading Marcus Aurelius? Is that what the latin is for?
>I just do it without wanting to. Should I stop doing this?
Depends. Is there anything you'd rather be doing? If not, I would say you are not in fact denying your will.

(02-28-2023, 03:46 PM)Grimm Wrote: When I imagine future generations living under the privilege of a world ruled by us, I'm not opposed to sacrificing my own nature, though I agree that might be actually counter-productive.

I worded my first post badly, I meant to suggest "increasing intelligence" as a way to double down on the strengths of already smart people while not trying to go against their nature, but to be of any relevance in society they should still be interested in useful subjects... Perhaps this is a pipe dream but I find it to be an urgent issue as everyone who hates us has their place in society, while a lot of us don't.
For me personally developing the ability to focus on things that I don't find interesting is my priority specifically for this reason, making a change from within.
Winning from inside the system seems like the most likely option, even if making changes that wait is slow and difficult. After that, creating a system that rewards personalities that are prone to boredom is a must, without them we wouldn't push frontiers.

What do you mean exactly by self-trust? Not believing imposter-syndrome and such?

I don't power through imposter syndrome. I don't feel it. And I don't feel it because I know I'm saying what I believe and doing what I want. I trust myself sufficiently to believe that I am good and what I want will be good. I sit around playing old video games and talking to my friends about them. Through this I develop attractive ideas on art and culture and people, and from there am able to do things like build forums which attract more intelligent people, which gives me more to do, and maybe somehow someday this could somehow make the world a better place.

Like with the guest, I'd like to ask you what you want. You think your priority has to be affecting some kind of particular change. I'd like to know what that is, and also what you'd like to be doing if you felt you could leave that.
#8
(02-28-2023, 08:51 PM)anthony Wrote: I don't power through imposter syndrome. I don't feel it. And I don't feel it because I know I'm saying what I believe and doing what I want. I trust myself sufficiently to believe that I am good and what I want will be good. I sit around playing old video games and talking to my friends about them. Through this I develop attractive ideas on art and culture and people, and from there am able to do things like build forums which attract more intelligent people, which gives me more to do, and maybe somehow someday this could somehow make the world a better place. 

Like with the guest, I'd like to ask you what you want. You think your priority has to be affecting some kind of particular change. I'd like to know what that is, and also what you'd like to be doing if you felt you could leave that.


I'd like to work in the government long enough to make the change that I want and then leave as soon as possible, if I lived in a good world and left to my own devices I'd probably be enjoying a slower life in the countryside. But not working actively towards getting in a position of power feels like I'm letting the world slip away when I could've done something even if minimal. 
If I could only change one aspect of society in this current system, I'd like to affect how the education system works. If I could be granted anything I wanted I'd be dictator, people often say to be wary of those who want to be in power but I find it to be a pure goal rooted from childlike thinking, given the right circumstances. That being said as I mentioned before I wouldn't want to stay in power for long, just long enough to enact necessary changes.
#9
(03-01-2023, 08:02 AM)Grimm Wrote: I'd like to work in the government long enough to make the change that I want and then leave as soon as possible, if I lived in a good world and left to my own devices I'd probably be enjoying a slower life in the countryside. But not working actively towards getting in a position of power feels like I'm letting the world slip away when I could've done something even if minimal. 
If I could only change one aspect of society in this current system, I'd like to affect how the education system works. If I could be granted anything I wanted I'd be dictator, people often say to be wary of those who want to be in power but I find it to be a pure goal rooted from childlike thinking, given the right circumstances. That being said as I mentioned before I wouldn't want to stay in power for long, just long enough to enact necessary changes.

I understand the logic of pursuing power, but I feel like unless one goes truly all in above and beyond ones self for a higher cause one is just compromising one's nature for poisoned rewards. Jews are the most monomaniacally power-oriented group we can readily point to in the world today. They have influence, power, but is it worth it? Look what it's done to them. The Romans pursued power, but they lived in a simpler time where the game was more wholesome, pursuit of power was a relatively honest and human thing. Today, the meta is to become the aliens from War of the Worlds, an atrophied bug that's all eyes and hands and calculations. How's that for a description of a Jewish banker? How many Jewish bankers have burned their lives out to miserable crisps following this path? And what do they have to show for it? Freed from work their descendants can only become frivolous neurotic, sterilised slaves of their own institutions. There's nothing left of their own natures or soon the world of any greater value.

Wanting to pursue a practical path of power in the 21st century I believe is out. The game really changes you as you play. But, you say you want to be a dictator. That's far more interesting. And I'll refer you back to my comments on dictators above. I believe that they are not practical or disciplined people. This is not a work path. This is the outside path. The back way. You get it yourself. "Childlike thinking". If you want to take the back way put discipline aside.

And really I believe either way, put discipline aside. The primary practical paths are no good for us, and the outside paths, which would both be more enjoyable and human experiences, and more likely to produce tangible results in my opinion, will be best followed by leaning into our own nature. You say if power could be put to the side you would "be enjoying a slower life in the countryside". I don't mean anything pointed by this, I just think I need to say that doesn't sound like much of an answer. It sounds to me like what you mean is "leisure" and believe that probably has to come with various meme trappings like open space and green scenery. I would say, before committing to anything serious you ought to find yourself. It's only frivolous when normal people say it to each other. Here between us it means something.

How specific and sure are your values and desires? If they were sure enough, I don't think this thread would exist.
#10
(02-28-2023, 07:44 PM)Guest Wrote:
(02-28-2023, 06:12 AM)anthony Wrote: You're more or less saying that will gets stronger when denied and neglected. Does that not sound wrong to you? Like you're maybe talking about two different things when you say that denial of "will"steels "willpower"? Yes you say "in pursuit of something higher" but doesn't that just mean it's what you want, or what you "will"?

If you look at successful movements through history you will find willful leaders and disciplined followers. Hitler was not a vegetarian because he read marcus aurelius and believed good food was for greedy entitled babies. He probably wouldn't have eaten meat at gunpoint. He didn't like the idea of hurting animals so he found eating meat distasteful. Nazism was built on Hitler being uniquely driven by what he wanted. Does this not also seem true of Mao, Mohamed, etc?

And this wilfulness at the top then naturally leads to discipline below. A wilful leader will be particular and demanding, and due to their self-possessedness, they will often be very compelling.

I think this is basically true, but what about things like the battle of Marathon, where the soldiers ran for many many miles, undergoing pain and suffering for the promise of future glory? What about where Hitler had to swallow his pride and shake hands with people he hated for political gain, or where we all have to hide our power level in public? We don't want to do these things but we force ourselves to because we know they lead to something that's worth the suffering in the future. Sometimes we don't have the strength to do these things and we chimp out or we struggle to hide how much we hate it, our performance suffers. Nevertheless even the greatest man has to do these things sometimes, and the question is how do we do them better? Or should we avoid such things as much as possible? 

The examples you listed as Anthony said, are much easier to do from your will, taking palpable action during important events. The issue is that nothing I do right now feels like it's important, or worth it, nothing seems to be happening in the world in the way that it used to, the handshakes that Hitler pushed himself to do simply don't exist anymore, he saw a tangible vision of his Europe that would be realised sooner with each handshake and each endeavour he took. 
I expect to see many people start shining if trouble occurs, either another world war or an economic crisis similar to what the Weimar went through, these people are mostly unable to thrive during times of comfort such as today, while excelling during times when history moves.

Leftists don't possess men like this, lukewarm comfort is where they thrive. My fear is that history is moving quietly enough for leftists to keep pushing us further into the lukewarm petri dish world until it's too late to reverse some of the damages.


Quote:I force myself to tediously drill Latin vocab every day because I know that understanding Latin will be worth it. I genuinely believe there is no better way to achieve this goal so I just do it without wanting to. Should I stop doing this? I know it produces good results and there is no other way to achieve my goal, so it's hard to abandon the idea of will-denial being ineffective or slavish. Even Nietzsche admits that asceticism is attractive for philosophers because it produces good conditions for doing philosophy. The fact is will-denial has helped me affirm other instances of my will, and without that tool I don't think I would be nearly as joyful as I am today.

What end do you drill your latin vocab into? Your own personal enjoyment? That falls under your own interests and hobbies, the issue is to get people to do the things they're not interested in, slave-toil. Your goal is an erudite pursuit but ultimately I don't think it'll be relevant in moving society in the right way unless you somehow weaponise it the way, say the way this forum was created to bring likeminded people together.
Getting more of our people to get useful college degrees no matter how zogged you believe college is, would definitely cause an effect on society, if anything it'll make your voice more likely to be listened to if you possess certain credentials, being smart and self taught doesn't seem to be valued as much as worldly achievements you can put down on a CV. 
In the EU they mostly only value (over)educated people as seen by who works in their parliament, mostly graduates in law and some in sciences.
The USA seems to be more flexible, I see a lot of military people and businessmen who get ahead in politics, but also almost everyone of note is connected in some way to ivy-league schools.
#11
(03-01-2023, 08:19 AM)anthony Wrote:
(03-01-2023, 08:02 AM)Grimm Wrote: I'd like to work in the government long enough to make the change that I want and then leave as soon as possible, if I lived in a good world and left to my own devices I'd probably be enjoying a slower life in the countryside. But not working actively towards getting in a position of power feels like I'm letting the world slip away when I could've done something even if minimal. 
If I could only change one aspect of society in this current system, I'd like to affect how the education system works. If I could be granted anything I wanted I'd be dictator, people often say to be wary of those who want to be in power but I find it to be a pure goal rooted from childlike thinking, given the right circumstances. That being said as I mentioned before I wouldn't want to stay in power for long, just long enough to enact necessary changes.

I understand the logic of pursuing power, but I feel like unless one goes truly all in above and beyond ones self for a higher cause one is just compromising one's nature for poisoned rewards. Jews are the most monomaniacally power-oriented group we can readily point to in the world today. They have influence, power, but is it worth it? Look what it's done to them. The Romans pursued power, but they lived in a simpler time where the game was more wholesome, pursuit of power was a relatively honest and human thing. Today, the meta is to become the aliens from War of the Worlds, an atrophied bug that's all eyes and hands and calculations. How's that for a description of a Jewish banker? How many Jewish bankers have burned their lives out to miserable crisps following this path? And what do they have to show for it? Freed from work their descendants can only become frivolous neurotic, sterilised slaves of their own institutions. There's nothing left of their own natures or soon the world of any greater value.

Wanting to pursue a practical path of power in the 21st century I believe is out. The game really changes you as you play. But, you say you want to be a dictator. That's far more interesting. And I'll refer you back to my comments on dictators above. I believe that they are not practical or disciplined people. This is not a work path. This is the outside path. The back way. You get it yourself. "Childlike thinking". If you want to take the back way put discipline aside.

And really I believe either way, put discipline aside. The primary practical paths are no good for us, and the outside paths, which would both be more enjoyable and human experiences, and more likely to produce tangible results in my opinion, will be best followed by leaning into our own nature. You say if power could be put to the side you would "be enjoying a slower life in the countryside". I don't mean anything pointed by this, I just think I need to say that doesn't sound like much of an answer. It sounds to me like what you mean is "leisure" and believe that probably has to come with various meme trappings like open space and green scenery. I would say, before committing to anything serious you ought to find yourself. It's only frivolous when normal people say it to each other. Here between us it means something.

How specific and sure are your values and desires? If they were sure enough, I don't think this thread would exist.

Naturally I agree that "work paths" are not of our nature, Hitler himself took an unconventional way into politics despite being democratically elected, but what "outside paths" do you see opening up in the near future?
#12
(03-01-2023, 10:00 AM)Grimm Wrote: Naturally I agree that "work paths" are not of our nature, Hitler himself took an unconventional way into politics despite being democratically elected, but what "outside paths" do you see opening up in the near future?

I really wish I could give a practical answer here. Best I can say is to find a way to keep yourself maintained without going to spiritual rot, then secure as much leisure and comfort as possible to do what you want. Some guys find ways to neet, others find relatively bearable decent paying jobs, once that's secure things are open for you.
#13
(02-28-2023, 06:12 AM)anthony Wrote: You're more or less saying that will gets stronger when denied and neglected. Does that not sound wrong to you? Like you're maybe talking about two different things when you say that denial of "will"steels "willpower"? Yes you say "in pursuit of something higher" but doesn't that just mean it's what you want, or what you "will"?
You are either missing my point or think that you cannot overexert or weaken your will. I shall put it like this: You have finite resources of energy. You can choose how to spend those energy resources. You could choose to waste your energy resources on debauchery, you could choose to waste them on something worthwhile. If you sit all day in your room consuming powerful dopamine releasers like vidya, it is very likely you will lack energy to do something else the same day, even ignoring the wasted time. At the same time choosing certain easy pleasures that give you quick dose of dopamine again and again will over time reduce your willingness to do anything else while also widdling down the effectiveness of dopamine on your brain, leaving you more unsatisfied. Please note that this is not arguing for asceticism as an end to itself or saying that indulging in these pleasures from time to time is harmful. I think life can be enjoyed more deeply if you set rules for yourself as long as those rules are not self-denying (and many nowadays, especially among the self-help gurus are). I merely am saying you should avoid certain behaviours that "break your willpower". If you are used to the quick dopamine rush of let's say vigorously masturbating all day and then face something that demands a greater extension of will to receive the same dopamine rush, your monkey-brain is more likely to prefer just masturbating. You can counteract that by limiting your daily exposure to dopamine sinks.

Quote:If you look at successful movements through history you will find willful leaders and disciplined followers. Hitler was not a vegetarian because he read marcus aurelius and believed good food was for greedy entitled babies. He probably wouldn't have eaten meat at gunpoint. He didn't like the idea of hurting animals so he found eating meat distasteful. Nazism was built on Hitler being uniquely driven by what he wanted. Does this not also seem true of Mao, Mohamed, etc?
Hitler also likely never masturbated from what is known about him. Everyone extends their will to certain domains. Some have more willpower than others and can extend it to more domains but all can only do so much in a day. I am saying: What are you wasting your will on today? How many goals are pursuing? How many of those goals are sensible? How many goals are a waste of time, if considered in the grander scheme of things?

In addition, how do you think Hitler, that notoriously lazy homeless painter of postcards from Vienna, who ineffectively wallowed in his own misery and impotent fantasies of power, turned into the Hitler everyone remembers? It was World War One. What did World War One do to him? It denied his will for the daily pleasantries of personal ineffectivity in favor of what he considered the greater good. And when he came back from the trenches he continued that on his own terms, he merged his own will with what he considered to be the greater good.

Quote:And this wilfulness at the top then naturally leads to discipline below. A wilful leader will be particular and demanding, and due to their self-possessedness, they will often be very compelling.
All people that post on here are not leaders but followers. I admire the arrogance though.
#14
(03-10-2023, 06:42 AM)arms_race's lazy guest post Wrote: Hitler also likely never masturbated from what is known about him. Everyone extends their will to certain domains. Some have more willpower than others and can extend it to more domains but all can only do so much in a day. I am saying: What are you wasting your will on today? How many goals are pursuing? How many of those goals are sensible? How many goals are a waste of time, if considered in the grander scheme of things?

In addition, how do you think Hitler, that notoriously lazy homeless painter of postcards from Vienna, who ineffectively wallowed in his own misery and impotent fantasies of power, turned into the Hitler everyone remembers? It was World War One. What did World War One do to him? It denied his will for the daily pleasantries of personal ineffectivity in favor of what he considered the greater good. And when he came back from the trenches he continued that on his own terms, he merged his own will with what he considered to be the greater good.

All people that post on here are not leaders but followers. I admire the arrogance though.

I think the reason Hitler didn't masterbate is that he simply did not want to. Great men are motivated by an intense boredom. Everything apart from their goal seems mundane and pointless.

I used to play videogames and watch movies every day in the way that you describe, but now I spend most my time studying and exercising. I didn't really have to force myself into this change, I just got bored of everything else. I stopped playing videogames so often because they felt pointless, not because I rationally understood that they weren't contributing to the "greater good". 

Ask yourself why you don't live a normie slave existence. Is it even possible for you to let go and just indulge in it? Or are you just repulsed by it? Could you enjoy it even if you tried?
#15
(03-10-2023, 07:38 AM)aias Wrote: I stopped playing videogames so often because they felt pointless, not because I rationally understood that they weren't contributing to the "greater good".
There is no difference, really. The destinction between Reason and Feeling is probably a great enemy too. However, there are people that feel this and do not move on. Rather they get upset that "they don't make vidya like they used to". And maybe they don't. This however is a discussion on how to better shift focus to goals that matter to oneself. And that comes with adversity and the need to overcome your lesser self.

Quote:Ask yourself why you don't live a normie slave existence. Is it even possible for you to let go and just indulge in it? Or are you just repulsed by it? Could you enjoy it even if you tried?
There is no meaningful distinction between you, me and the average "normie slave" beyond differing aesthetic sensibilities. We feel the presence of ugliness stronger than they do. That is not a question of maximising focus though. We are moving off topic.
#16
(03-10-2023, 06:42 AM)Mearms_race's lazy guest post Wrote:
(02-28-2023, 06:12 AM)anthony Wrote: You're more or less saying that will gets stronger when denied and neglected. Does that not sound wrong to you? Like you're maybe talking about two different things when you say that denial of "will"steels "willpower"? Yes you say "in pursuit of something higher" but doesn't that just mean it's what you want, or what you "will"?
You are either missing my point or think that you cannot overexert or weaken your will. I shall put it like this: You have finite resources of energy. You can choose how to spend those energy resources. You could choose to waste your energy resources on debauchery, you could choose to waste them on something worthwhile. If you sit all day in your room consuming powerful dopamine releasers like vidya, it is very likely you will lack energy to do something else the same day, even ignoring the wasted time. At the same time choosing certain easy pleasures that give you quick dose of dopamine again and again will over time reduce your willingness to do anything else while also widdling down the effectiveness of dopamine on your brain, leaving you more unsatisfied. Please note that this is not arguing for asceticism as an end to itself or saying that indulging in these pleasures from time to time is harmful. I think life can be enjoyed more deeply if you set rules for yourself as long as those rules are not self-denying (and many nowadays, especially among the self-help gurus are). I merely am saying you should avoid certain behaviours that "break your willpower". If you are used to the quick dopamine rush of let's say vigorously masturbating all day and then face something that demands a greater extension of will to receive the same dopamine rush, your monkey-brain is more likely to prefer just masturbating. You can counteract that by limiting your daily exposure to dopamine sinks.

"Dopamine" is another one of those totemic anti-concepts that I think destroys thought by impersonating it and filling vital space where ideas should be in peoples' understandings of certain issues. First I don't think the function is as simple as the internet says (dopamine is the happy chemical and you can overdose and become insensitive), I believe that that was always masochistic meme-stoics trying to build a science totem.

But that's not really vital, I can just read your post and wherever you say dopamine I can figure you just mean pleasure. From there, I'll answer you.

I really get the impression that this kind of thought is well past its prime, and I have to wonder if you even know what pleasure feels like or if you're capable of reflecting upon your own experiences if you're capable of writing this. Think of the kinds of video games people play forever. Do these people look pleasure addicted? These people aren't media cokeheads, these people are media heroin junkies. Long term repetitive media burnout is not a hyperstimulation issue, it's people embracing an anaesthetic buzz.

The "consoomer" meme completely obliterates the nuance in consumption. That aesthetes and anaesthetes exist and are having completely different experiences. You say that there's room for tolerating consumption "from time to time". It's not a question of amount, it's a question of kind. You're talking about sensory pleasure like alcohol. Maybe justifiable if we can control it just to get ourselves through the day. These things can have positive value. They can be ends. Willpower is not broken by aesthetic pursuits. And it's not a question of work. I don't choose to read a book and then post about it here rather than play League of Legends for that entire time because I believe in the value of work and understand that if I work for my pleasure it'll feel better eventually. I absolutely hate League of Legends. It's boring, ugly, and unpleasant. Taste is how you resist supersensorium. Not willpower. And you cultivate taste via leisure and self-indulgence, not self denial and asceticism. I am better equipped than most of the human race to resist tiktok because I am more in touch with what I want and more inclined to seek my own pleasure.

Quote:Hitler also likely never masturbated from what is known about him. Everyone extends their will to certain domains. Some have more willpower than others and can extend it to more domains but all can only do so much in a day. I am saying: What are you wasting your will on today? How many goals are pursuing? How many of those goals are sensible? How many goals are a waste of time, if considered in the grander scheme of things?

In addition, how do you think Hitler, that notoriously lazy homeless painter of postcards from Vienna, who ineffectively wallowed in his own misery and impotent fantasies of power, turned into the Hitler everyone remembers? It was World War One. What did World War One do to him? It denied his will for the daily pleasantries of personal ineffectivity in favor of what he considered the greater good. And when he came back from the trenches he continued that on his own terms, he merged his own will with what he considered to be the greater good.

As has already been said, Hitler didn't masturbate because of an aesthetic aversion. People who met and knew him did not describe him as spartan. Terms like "virginal" and "feminine, bordering on effeminate" stick out in my memory.

You're talking about willpower like a "spoony" if you've heard of those crazy kids. Like people have bigger or smaller tanks and distribute what they've got across different things according to desire and self control. What am I wasting my will on?  I think that framing just doesn't apply to human beings. That's now how we work. What do I feel like doing today? That's a real question. You're talking about us like we're dysfunctional and distracted epicurean robots, rather than complex organic beings.

And your reading of Hitler's war experience just feels self evidently wrong. Hitler was lazy and then hardened by the denials and strains of WW1. But he went out of his way to enlist. This is a microcosm of how you're wrong about everything. Hitler the lazy painter was the latent Hitler the minor war hero and Hitler the Fuhrer. He was not all of these things despite or after being lazy. The traits which made him lazy in pre war peacetime made him the rest as circumstances changed. The same essential traits made it all possible. His sense of romance, desire for perfection, the intensity of his wilful desire to please himself, he never lost the traits which made him the lazy homeless painter you speak of so derisively. 

Quote:All people that post on here are not leaders but followers. I admire the arrogance though.

You should be careful making comments like this. What if you're wrong?
#17
Sorry Anthony, I hate to be dismissive but your post is not worth engaging because it misses my point entirely. It gets lost in aesthetic details I am utterly disinterested in addressing. All I am saying is that to forego a future benefit in order to obtain a less rewarding but more immediate benefit is corrosive to willpower. It is not exactly rocket science. People have known this for millennia and hence molded their behavior to avoid such stimuli. Rather tell me: How would you "steel" your willpower if that is too much work for you?
#18
(03-11-2023, 05:57 AM)arms_race Wrote: Sorry Anthony, I hate to be dismissive but your post is not worth engaging because it misses my point entirely. It gets lost in aesthetic details I am utterly disinterested in addressing. All I am saying is that to forego a future benefit in order to obtain a less rewarding but more immediate benefit is corrosive to willpower. It is not exactly rocket science. People have known this for millennia and hence molded their behavior to avoid such stimuli. Rather tell me: How would you "steel" your willpower if that is too much work for you?

I understand that simple point and disagree. I think you are wrong. That's not how people work. It can be done but at that point the natural spring of authentic human drive has been capped. You're talking about how dog-people are. You're talking about work. Some things can't be worked for.

I don't work. You could say I've destroyed my willpower if you want. If you'll only recognise the one kind of human drive as "willpower" then I have none. The confusion seems to come from me calling this other drive its own kind of "willpower". I have no willpower, but despite that I'm also not idle. Again I don't work. But I'm here. I don't have money, but I don't have nothing. I can do things now that I couldn't before. By completely throwing out my willpower, my dog-like drive, I believe that I've gotten in touch with a new source of human power, my cat-like drive. Which I really think suits me much better.

My willpower is not corroded. It's more like completely burned away at this point. And what do you think is underneath? Do you think without it you'd just sit in place until you died?
#19
This thread is about maximising focus, intelligence and work ethic. You haven't told us yet how'd you do that in lieu of what I am proposing, something that has been proven to work time and time again btw. I see your rejection is a priori from an ethical standpoint. Ok, fine. But all you have done is reject the notion of applying effort to overcoming a challenge (commonly called work) which is baked into the premise of this thread. So there is no conversation to be had here then, other than the notion that maximising focus, intelligence and work ethic is undesirable under your paradigm.
#20
(03-11-2023, 08:40 AM)arms_race Wrote: This thread is about maximising focus, intelligence and work ethic. You haven't told us yet how'd you do that in lieu of what I am proposing, something that has been proven to work time and time again btw. I see your rejection is a priori from an ethical standpoint. Ok, fine. But all you have done is reject the notion of applying effort to overcoming a challenge (commonly called work) which is baked into the premise of this thread. So there is no conversation to be had here then, other than the notion that maximising focus, intelligence and work ethic is undesirable under your paradigm.

Not everyone is a worker. Some people are flowers. A flower doesn't need a work ethic.



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