On Moving to the EU

[honey moon groyper]

In the "The Path to Ultimate Power: How Do We Win?" thread, Meredith mentioned that he believed that we should be focusing on the EU. I agree and think further discussion would be edifying.

This thread will encompass all of the most important questions to this sentiment. To start, 

1. Does this actually make strategic sense? (compared to staying in America or any other non-EU, white country)
   
2. On what time scale does this plan make the most sense? (one decade, two decades, multi-generation?)
   
3. On an individual level, how would this work? (very practical things here: securing legal immigration status, finding a job, finding a house, learning a language, etc.)
   

I am sure there are other things worth mentioning. I hope you say what you think that is. I will start by giving my basic pitch why I think this is the best plan:

If everyone on this server moved to a city somewhere within the below map, then 90% of the OPSEC and coordination problems are solved. I say this primarily because it will put each of us in the best position to reach out to one another when the time is right while also allowing for total OPSEC. If you knew that everyone here lived in London or Bremen, for example, there is no anonymity lost and all of the geographic proximity gained. You cannot be doxxed based on living in a major city. Furthermore, many of the things necessary to be done to "Win" can be done from anywhere, but we will be more effective the closer we are to each other. There was a screenshot from someone's Curious Cat a few months ago about how all of the debates about populism vs. elitism, exit vs. infiltrate, etc. are pointless because we should obviously be doing all of those. The merits of different plans are often based on real-world facts that change rapidly. In other words, we should be populist, elitist, infiltrating, homesteading, opportunists. Of course, not all of us can do all of those things, but (again I hope someone has the screenshot from that Curious Cat post, I think it was Mikka's?) each of us can do which ever of those paths we feel most inclined towards within relative geographic proximity. I am proposing NW Europe. I think there are a few things it has going for it compared to anywhere else in the world.

• A high density of distinct nations bordering each other.
  
• High levels of economic opportunity (realistically, money is our biggest bottle neck right now).
  
• High starting level of genetic quality.
  

[Image: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjP1QLsVUAAc...name=small]



Regarding time scale, I think this sort of thing would likely take place over 10-15 years. If we really do have the amount of brain power I think we do, then, going off of historical precedent, I think the ball will start rolling quite fast. Wait for a crisis, act like you know what you are doing, actually know what to do it, and take over. I think if we ruled a country as small as the Netherlands even, then we would be a lock for eventual global domination.

On an individual level, for now, we maintain the BAP model. Move to a major city in NW Europe with at most 1-2 friends and set up shop. I would like to hear from anyone that has already immigrated to one of these places about what it takes to get legal status. In my mind, the best paths are through school and business. There is also a route with the military that would work well, but I think it would be unwise to discuss how that would work even at a high level. I am American, so I think you may be able to see that much of what I am saying comes from the perspective of someone coming to Europe from there. I cannot think of any major changes for someone coming from Canada, South Africa, Australia, etc. I have a difficult time imagining why any white man with a 120+ IQ could not feasibly do what I am outlining above. It is a question of should not could.

There is certainly more to be said, but I have made my basic point.

I would like this thread to stay focused on the core issue, so while I am sure there are important nuances to elucidate and interesting tangents about future actions, please orient your contributions towards positive, productive ends.

I am fond of this Patton quote:

“A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed at some indefinite time in the future.” ― George S. Patton Jr.
Mo

[BillyONare]

There are some downsides to Yurop. The economy is so bad that it’s almost impossible to make money while houses can still be quite expensive. Europeans seem noticeably stupider and more cattle-like than Americans even if they may be more pleasant in other ways. You can’t even homeschool kids. If I get some money saved up I might fuck around in Europe for a time.

Pls list the upsides of Europe vs Canada and America to counteract my naysaying.

[Guest]

The most hilarious aspect people bring up is "free healthcare", while in reality the "free" means vastly inferior quality of service, endless lines in clinics, people waiting several years for life-saving treatments and higher taxes for everyone. In fact you end up paying twice, because everyone who can afford it goes private, especially for dentist and optician work. And there are loads of charities and fundraisers for terminally sick people to send them to the US for treatment, because the local hospitals lack infrastructure or competence.

[honey moon groyper]

There are some downsides to Yurop. The economy is so bad that it’s almost impossible to make money while houses can still be quite expensive. Europeans seem noticeably stupider and more cattle-like than Americans even if they may be more pleasant in other ways. You can’t even homeschool kids. If I get some money saved up I might fuck around in Europe for a time.

Pls list the upsides of Europe vs Canada and America to counteract my naysaying.

I am sure the average European (even NW European, which is generally wealthier) makes less than the average American, but that has no bearing on the situation I am aiming for. Typically, while working as an expat you trade Quality of Life for increased income. Expats that are bilingual, have a graduate degree (not necessary, but easy to do for all of us), and work abroad get paid a lot of money. That is just in the world of normie business. My working assumption is that most of the guys here could enter a normie corporation and rise fairly quickly. 

Regarding the cattle-like nature of Europeans vs. Americans, you may be right. But wouldn't you want cattle if your goal was to take over?

---

The most hilarious aspect people bring up is "free healthcare", while in reality the "free" means vastly inferior quality of service, endless lines in clinics, people waiting several years for life-saving treatments and higher taxes for everyone. In fact you end up paying twice, because everyone who can afford it goes private, especially for dentist and optician work. And there are loads of charities and fundraisers for terminally sick people to send them to the US for treatment, because the local hospitals lack infrastructure or competence.

I am not really concerned with comparative healthcare benefits and I do not think you should be either. I want to rule or die trying.

[parsifal]

I think there are a few things it has going for it compared to anywhere else in the world.

• A high density of distinct nations bordering each other.
  
• High levels of economic opportunity (realistically, money is our biggest bottle neck right now).
  
• High starting level of genetic quality.
  

i share the overall sentiment but this is where i believe you're missing some key insights, which you would have if you had spent any significant time in the countries in question. the location BAP has suggested on at least one occasion is buenos aires, and i find his reasoning compelling: the highly developed world offers the least freedom. while it may not be as bad as america in some ways, the EU is further along the path to WEF agenda 2030 hellworld. in sweden, you can't pay for anything with cash, for example. counterintuitively, the economic prosperity makes it much harder for people like us to succeed economically. the first point you list here is moot in my opinion, but the last is the most compelling. obviously finding appropriate wives is a high priority, in our personal lives especially. given the dearth of high quality "eugenic" partners in the world today, securing the genetic future of life itself is as much a matter of personal decisions as it is statecraft. i don't have an answer to this, so back to point 2.

the biggest barrier to forming free associations of men is, as BAP puts it, "owned space." large cities in europe are just about the most owned space imaginable. certainly not all of europe is large cities, and in the long-term securing our own montségur far from prying eyes would be apropos, but that is not pertinent to the here and now. in europe, let alone the germanic countries, one's fate is inevitably in the hands of ZOG, and surely none of us want that. for this reason, the freedom of action offered by countries too poor and corrupt to enforce their own laws is much more enticing. economic success i believe comes naturally from the pursuits of young men unfettered by the bonds of "owned space," not to mention how much farther our western dollars go than they would in berlin or paris. in that way, i really do believe it all reduces to the question of true freedom.

our minds ought to be set on adventure and living our lives according to our own wills, rather than prospects of success or failure. else the long dull years will dampen our spirits, and we are bound to be led astray with neither political success nor adventure to show for it.

[Toledo_Keyed]

There are some downsides to Yurop. The economy is so bad that it’s almost impossible to make money while houses can still be quite expensive. Europeans seem noticeably stupider and more cattle-like than Americans even if they may be more pleasant in other ways. You can’t even homeschool kids. If I get some money saved up I might fuck around in Europe for a time.

Pls list the upsides of Europe vs Canada and America to counteract my naysaying.

Our economy still isn't back at pre-2008 levels, 8% unemployment is considered amazing (best we ever had since Franco died) and right now it's 15%, youth unemployment is 35%, please don't come, American, we are full and trying to solve the mess, it's always the same cycle, PSOE (Social Democrat Party) bankrupts the economy through massive bloated welfare state, while PP (Center-Right Social Liberal Party) "saves" It at the cost of further endebtment to the center of the Block and selling out even more of our barebones industry (we used to have a quite strong economy in the 50s and 60s due to our Autarky focus and because we spent time building actual industries, now they are all destroyed by tourism)

[BillyONare]

“tourism”

Europe’s only real source of sustenance. Europe is like a theme park and nature preserve staffed by dirt poor Mexicans that slavishly service Americans and Chinese for pittance wages which they exchange for low quality food and basic amenities grown and manufactured in places that can actually create wealth like like China, Russia, America.

[Guest]

In the "The Path to Ultimate Power: How Do We Win?" thread, Meredith mentioned that he believed that we should be focusing on the EU. I agree and think further discussion would be edifying.

This thread will encompass all of the most important questions to this sentiment. To start, 

1. Does this actually make strategic sense? (compared to staying in America or any other non-EU, white country)
   
2. On what time scale does this plan make the most sense? (one decade, two decades, multi-generation?)
   
3. On an individual level, how would this work? (very practical things here: securing legal immigration status, finding a job, finding a house, learning a language, etc.)
   

I am sure there are other things worth mentioning. I hope you say what you think that is. I will start by giving my basic pitch why I think this is the best plan:

If everyone on this server moved to a city somewhere within the below map, then 90% of the OPSEC and coordination problems are solved. I say this primarily because it will put each of us in the best position to reach out to one another when the time is right while also allowing for total OPSEC. If you knew that everyone here lived in London or Bremen, for example, there is no anonymity lost and all of the geographic proximity gained. You cannot be doxxed based on living in a major city. Furthermore, many of the things necessary to be done to "Win" can be done from anywhere, but we will be more effective the closer we are to each other. There was a screenshot from someone's Curious Cat a few months ago about how all of the debates about populism vs. elitism, exit vs. infiltrate, etc. are pointless because we should obviously be doing all of those. The merits of different plans are often based on real-world facts that change rapidly. In other words, we should be populist, elitist, infiltrating, homesteading, opportunists. Of course, not all of us can do all of those things, but (again I hope someone has the screenshot from that Curious Cat post, I think it was Mikka's?) each of us can do which ever of those paths we feel most inclined towards within relative geographic proximity. I am proposing NW Europe. I think there are a few things it has going for it compared to anywhere else in the world.

• A high density of distinct nations bordering each other.
  
• High levels of economic opportunity (realistically, money is our biggest bottle neck right now).
  
• High starting level of genetic quality.
  

[Image: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjP1QLsVUAAc...name=small]



Regarding time scale, I think this sort of thing would likely take place over 10-15 years. If we really do have the amount of brain power I think we do, then, going off of historical precedent, I think the ball will start rolling quite fast. Wait for a crisis, act like you know what you are doing, actually know what to do it, and take over. I think if we ruled a country as small as the Netherlands even, then we would be a lock for eventual global domination.

On an individual level, for now, we maintain the BAP model. Move to a major city in NW Europe with at most 1-2 friends and set up shop. I would like to hear from anyone that has already immigrated to one of these places about what it takes to get legal status. In my mind, the best paths are through school and business. There is also a route with the military that would work well, but I think it would be unwise to discuss how that would work even at a high level. I am American, so I think you may be able to see that much of what I am saying comes from the perspective of someone coming to Europe from there. I cannot think of any major changes for someone coming from Canada, South Africa, Australia, etc. I have a difficult time imagining why any white man with a 120+ IQ could not feasibly do what I am outlining above. It is a question of should not could.

There is certainly more to be said, but I have made my basic point.

I would like this thread to stay focused on the core issue, so while I am sure there are important nuances to elucidate and interesting tangents about future actions, please orient your contributions towards positive, productive ends.

I am fond of this Patton quote:

“A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed at some indefinite time in the future.” ― George S. Patton Jr.
Mo

If you are an american, stay in America. Literally the best land in the world. Are you gonna give that to the GNC and ZOG?. You wanna go to Europe to do the same things you could do in America but with higher prices, taxes, and overall restrictions.

Other armanites have already told you this: the economy is shit. The continent is overpopulated, and we also have a lot of niggers (we don't have the racial census like in America, except for Britain).

The states are more authoritarian and you have no room to say anything like the nigger ye does in america. There's no freaking OPSEC here.

Maybe im talking to much, im from Spain, where you can experience the worst of latino-african-european anarcho tyranny of this place, and bear in mind that most of my country is literally empty. Just imagine living in Belgium... I guess Norway and Denmark are more pleasant but...

No you aren't gonna go at the heart of the beast and in 10 - 15 years make the EU based. You don't have time either.

I mean, sure, there's gonna be a lot of turmoil in the future, unlike in America. You don't need to suffer that. The EU is not gonna last, at the very least it will radically change but... Just forget about it.

America is the only sandbox left on earth. Wanna go to big shitties to make little shops with your mannerbund? Do them in Jew York, San Francisco, Dallas, hell, you have everything you could get in Europe but cheaper and better.

And your enemies are more incompetent, because they are kikes, lebos, or straight up niggers. Here, your rivals would be lobotomized aryans that feel really ashamed of their nazi grandfathers. You could also come here to the mediterranean where the IQs of our politicians are no match to that of the average white american, only to find out that they are just dumber puppets of your same enemies.

Stay in America. Take over your local goverment (I guess in some places you just need the capital city to get the whole state).

[BillyONare]

Stay in America. Take over your local goverment (I guess in some places you just need the capital city to get the whole state).

[Image: https://i.ibb.co/6Rf45xF/image.png]

[august]

I imagine this is all the more enticing with each day that passes where you are subjected to the ills of modern American society. Basically, my thoughts are that it isn't all that simple as just moving and getting a decent job and such. The suggested areas, in and around Northwest Europe, those won't do. Unfortunately, you'll still be a nobody with no weight to do any of the things described. You'll just have a slightly more pleasant day-to-day experience socially, but it ends there. Those places are too solidified. 

You need a place where there's already a spark. Once something happens, somewhere that's relevant, dominoes will start falling.

[Image: https://i.ibb.co/2qzGvv5/image1.png]

Only because honey moon mentioned it, the region is objectively very good for female phenotypes. Founder of Lega Nord Umberto Bossi crowning "Miss Padania". So Italian.

[Image: https://i.ibb.co/m8dL7Kp/WCCOR12-0-L3-L6-M6-A.jpg]

Another Miss Padania winner, this one gave an interview.

[Image: https://i.ibb.co/FJcgpZB/Screenshot.png]

Why are you Miss Padania?
Because I am blonde, pale. I have characteristics of the North. I don't have Mediterranean traits. 

I wasn't talking about physique.
I'm sunny and [really driven]. To reach my goals.

You're saying that in the South they [aren't driven]?
Maybe yeah. They're more listless, we Northerners are less lazzaroni. 

Should the Southerners have to go to Miss Italy? (aka not be allowed to compete at Miss Padania)
For Miss Padania you can only have Northern roots. No terrone [Southern] (but "terrone" being said basically like nigger in this context is probably accurate) father even if the mother is Northern. 

[Numantine]

High levels of economic opportunity (realistically, money is our biggest bottle neck right now).

I'll reply in more detail to the thread later, I think it's interesting and agree with the basic idea, but one point before all of that. High levels of economic opportunity rule out all of Europe except for London and (the German part of) Switzerland. Have you ever wondered why European countries don't have an Ivy League, why striverism is much more niche, why Asians aren't coming here to volunteer, learn to play piano, and cheat on the SAT? It's just not worth it. After getting your STEM or law degree from a good university with excellent GPA (here maybe the exception is France), if you remain in Europe (quite difficult to go to the US), you've achieved and will only achieve at best upper-middle class status, meaning if you're fortunate enough you'll be able to buy a house over the next 20yrs and after that, when you're in your 60s, you will get a divorce and Porsche. Upper class status is primarily inherited in the form of real estate in Med countries or family business shares in Norse ones. It is what it is, there are no programmers or engineers storming the gates of Capitalist heaven to acquire perpetual wealth, at +5m net worth before they're 30 years old. Here, similarly capable and experienced people get 100k + getting to live in a walkable city. London finance is the main exception there is to this.

[nex]

Only ignorance could think up this post and those contemplating it. Anyone who is from the EU, or has lived there, and is able to put aside national pride, can tell you that the place is devoid of opportunity. (Most places are also lacking in energy, especially in the south.) The language barriers moreover hinder you, unless you work for an American conglomerate or something remotely. Property prices are 5x the American standard for a house or apartment and they themselves 5x below the American standard in quality. As regards the so called free healthcare and education, free education might be an admitted term for primary and secondary school, but college costs are usually 3-5 grand per year, topping that with an apartment, and costs usually come close to American prices, if not higher. And to top it all off, the income tax rate is around 40-45 percent (to pay for Arab and Bangladeshi social housing and the 'free' education and healthcare). Social mobility there is none. Every city yearly swells with an ever increasing number of Arabs, Bangladeshi, and all sorts of subcontinental creatures. A word on these creatures wont go awry. Compared with the American negro, they are far worse. From what I gather most Americans are unfamiliar with them. They are literally fresh off the boat, untouched by civilised nations, Bangladeshi Alibaba-labour slaves, Pakistani pederasts, Levantine and Indian cheap spice shops that overrun the streets. The smaller size of any given European country renders their presence, which grows already far more speedily than that of the Mexican and negroes of America, far more acute. Added to that the American Negro and Mexican have at least the quality of having lived in some degree of civilisation for quite some time, these on the other hand entirely lack that mitigating attribute. 

Europe, as far as my limited political knowledge extends is also essentially a one party system. Most parties are just shades of the one colour. The republican apparatus still hold significant power in America, they have the capital to fund movies and tv shows, to actually introduce laws contrary to democratic party principles, they have news shows, musicians, et cetera. There is still an image that comes to mind when you mention American conservatism, now mention European conservatism and the slate is blank. Just as American (Jewish) cultural intervention brought down European culture, so now can it only be revived by an intervention and integration with the American conservative aesthetic and principles. (Which, if it it ever happens, will probably wipe out Catholicism). 

But it may be too late for all that anyways. The only time I want to see Americans in Europe, is coming either with the might of the American arms, or her cultural armament. I long to see her great merchant navy handing out Smith and Wessons on the banks of Ireland and Britain, thence to Normandy and through the straits to the Mediterranean inlets, sending American industry and arms through the whole continent. 

Americans who would move to Europe to try to wield her as a means to take back America are wrong in every sense, She hasn't the industries, the military capability, the capital, the spirit, nor the cultural empire to do so. It only works contrariwise, America must be first taken, only then Europe. Besides if the message isn't clear enough, I shall synopsise it with this: Europe is worse off than America in almost every form of cultural rot ( though perhaps there are less trannies and gays than America), the east pilfered by communism, the south lazy and lax, the north overrun with subcontinentals and our governments forced to prostate supplicant before unelected SSRI'd bureaucrats of the EU. Truly do not do this unless you have remote job or very good one here and want to relax in the south.

[Svevlad]

There are pros and cons, but with Europe, you have to have one thing in mind told to me by an acquaintance who works in the entire FDI bait department in the government:

Europe is broke. The money is just gone. Everything rests upon inherited infrastructure. It's in a slow, unstoppable downward spiral that will probably only escalate until a catastrophic collapse. The only remaining power with money is the US, and it too is leaking at an alarming rate. The Chinese have a bit, but it's uncertain if anything will come of it - likely not. The only somewhat reliable money is in the Arab petrostates, and also in their case, the future is murky and dubious.

The window for climbing the ladder is closing quickly. With Europe you restrict yourself to nothing more than upper middle class torpor. The Meds already gave up, the only real high-cash-flow sector of the economy being Balkan drug traffickers making their rounds (at least more civilized than Latinx cartels). The only strivers you will see in Europe will be eastern European diasporoids, as "upper middle class" in NW Europe is basically filthy rich in their eyes - and even they are seeing the truth slowly. Still, that striving of the eastern half of the continent might bring some boons in the future. The spirit is important, after all. As long as they don't run too blindly into the embrace of the EU, the regulatory pooperpower mammy state, that is.

So, if you're going for some material gain or political power - forget about it. The continent is fully buckbroken. If you seek to see some RW rejuvenation of the White race from it, you're going to have to work for a lifetime to even make it possible for your descendants to consider the option.