Rehabilitating Christianity

[miso]

It shouldn't have come to a situation where it's become customary to put disclaimers like "I'm not a Christian Nationalist, but ..." on every post you make about religion and politics.

What the churches need right now is much more than what Martin Luther set out to accomplish — it could be said that his little crusade was against the specter of Libertarian Top Hat Gigachad sucking the soul out of a religion, but what the churches face today is not cynical hypercapitalism (though Skorr might care about that more than I do) nor the r-tarded Name The Heresy roulette of its first 1500 years, but the deliberate twisting of the Law to serve the enemies it was originally spoken into existence to suppress.

You can try to bypass the theological shit-flinging swamp by ignoring religion altogether in your political endeavors and instead pushing for specific policies for issues you want to take care of. But the resulting outline ends up looking suspiciously like something an Orthodox catechumen would put together in a Twitter thread bragging about how based his religion is. 

Because you can never really escape Christianity as a tool for enforcing your policies, as divorced (heh) from material issues like immigration and economics as it may seem. And even if you could, you forgo the invaluable spiritual and political weight that claiming the title of "the Hand of God" lends to your political movement in the eyes of the grunts. The question for Christians dissatisfied with the state of the world thus becomes: "Why isn't my church administration doing anything about the evils plaguing my country and the world, and is it wrong for me to defy them?" Unless you're what Piffie has accused me of being (a "quietist" who gives up on everything, resigning himself and the world to inevitable destruction via the Apocalypse in Revelation) you're angry and you don't want to go down without a fight. What you run into is hundreds of years (decades in Protestantism have achieved the same result) of Catholic and Orthodox teaching disincentivizing or condemning as heresy any meaningful action to clean house with corrupt or traitorous "spiritual leaders." Corey Mahler criticized the pedophilia-defending President Matthew Harrison of the LCMS and he got excommunicated, so you see what we're up against.

Now, you may not want to listen to me if you consider yourself part of either of the Two True Churches because I'm a filthy Prot and have no qualms about tearing down an institution I disagree with, but I think you know deep down that neither Pope Francis nor the possible "right-wing" African successor your IRL TradCath acquaintances cheer for are going to do the work God needs us to accomplish.

So basically, what I'm asking you is, are you holier than your Pope or Patriarch or President? The answer is yes, and in a just world it'd be better if you were in their place.

[Sabellius]

Almost none of the contemporary issues facing white countries, least of all immigration, require any religious element to solve, and religion is more often than not a distraction from them, see Africa First. Trying to infiltrate church bodies in order to influence policy is a bone headed idea instead of just going for the jugular. Christianity doesnt have an economic program, and if anything it can be misused in that area. Trump didnt appeal much to religion. Did Stalin need religion to suppress LGBTQ?

Corey Mahler is a grade A retard.

[Sabellius]

It shouldn't have come to a situation where it's become customary to put disclaimers like "I'm not a Christian Nationalist, but ..." on every post you make about religion and politics.

What the churches need right now is much more than what Martin Luther set out to accomplish — it could be said that his little crusade was against the specter of Libertarian Top Hat Gigachad sucking the soul out of a religion, but what the churches face today is not cynical hypercapitalism (though Skorr might care about that more than I do) nor the r-tarded Name The Heresy roulette of its first 1500 years, but the deliberate twisting of the Law to serve the enemies it was originally spoken into existence to suppress.

You can try to bypass the theological shit-flinging swamp by ignoring religion altogether in your political endeavors and instead pushing for specific policies for issues you want to take care of. But the resulting outline ends up looking suspiciously like something an Orthodox catechumen would put together in a Twitter thread bragging about how based his religion is. 

Because you can never really escape Christianity as a tool for enforcing your policies, as divorced (heh) from material issues like immigration and economics as it may seem. And even if you could, you forgo the invaluable spiritual and political weight that claiming the title of "the Hand of God" lends to your political movement in the eyes of the grunts. The question for Christians dissatisfied with the state of the world thus becomes: "Why isn't my church administration doing anything about the evils plaguing my country and the world, and is it wrong for me to defy them?" Unless you're what Piffie has accused me of being (a "quietist" who gives up on everything, resigning himself and the world to inevitable destruction via the Apocalypse in Revelation) you're angry and you don't want to go down without a fight. What you run into is hundreds of years (decades in Protestantism have achieved the same result) of Catholic and Orthodox teaching disincentivizing or condemning as heresy any meaningful action to clean house with corrupt or traitorous "spiritual leaders." Corey Mahler criticized the pedophilia-defending President Matthew Harrison of the LCMS and he got excommunicated, so you see what we're up against.

Now, you may not want to listen to me if you consider yourself part of either of the Two True Churches because I'm a filthy Prot and have no qualms about tearing down an institution I disagree with, but I think you know deep down that neither Pope Francis nor the possible "right-wing" African successor your IRL TradCath acquaintances cheer for are going to do the work God needs us to accomplish.

So basically, what I'm asking you is, are you holier than your Pope or Patriarch or President? The answer is yes, and in a just world it'd be better if you were in their place.

meant to quote this.
I dont understand what benefit Christianity gives to politics, even really in America, and to the degree it does, you dont need complicated theology, just vague appeals to Chrsitianity, trying to focus too much on theology will alienate people, for example mormons, you dont need to get into debates about whether or not the bible actually condemns homosexuality or whatever.
Also, the average tradcath on the internet doesnt deserve to run a restaurant, let alone a church.

[Sabellius]

This is an area that particularly pisses me off. Christians have to fit everything in their worldview. Jews dont support gay marriage because of "da Talmud" or whatever. There are no specifically Christian arguments against miscegenation. The average MAGA voter cares more about immigration than gay marriage. Wedge issues should be avoided unless the overwhelming majority of the target market is behind it (ie. its not much of a wedge issue at all). Its true that long term semi religious intellectual issues must be dealt with, but thats a seriosuly long term issue, in the short term focus on specific policies and directly attacking the left.
You also have to accept that one "long term issue" is Christianity itself. Leftism obviously borrows and distorts elements of Christianity. That's almost undeniable.

[Sabellius]

My last point will be that social conservatism is not a strongly radicalising issue. Yugoslavia went from 0 to 100 in terms of ethnicity, because that's something that can get heated incredibly quickly, nothing like that is going to happen over trans kids, sadly. The general population has much more extreme positions on immigration and race than they do on "usury, gay marriage, trans kids" etc. Use racism and then after winning you can do anything you want with religion, thats infinitely more reasonable.

[Sabellius]

addendum-30% of republicans oppose gay marriage while the majority of the American public opposes immigration and affirmative action. 50% of whites say whites are discriminated against

[miso]

This is mostly an appeal to Christians. I don't really care whether atheists see eye to eye on my prescriptions for the churches, but anyone who genuinely believes in God would be appalled that their "rock" and "fortress" of an institution against evil isn't on the frontlines of politics. ANAG, so anything truly religious (AF isn't) would tackle immigration first as well. My entire issue with organized Christianity is that it doesn't do these things and thus cannot be said to be religious.

What I am not saying is that I want the churches *as they are* to stick their fingers in politics. They already do one way or another (Francis condemning the death penalty as a sin, sending church money to Africa instead of helping Europe first, etc), and it is contrary to Christian behavior. They need to be reformed before they can be trusted.

[Eternal Okie]

This is mostly an appeal to Christians. I don't really care whether atheists see eye to eye on my prescriptions for the churches, but anyone who genuinely believes in God would be appalled that their "rock" and "fortress" of an institution against evil isn't on the frontlines of politics. ANAG, so anything truly religious (AF isn't) would tackle immigration first as well. My entire issue with organized Christianity is that it doesn't do these things and thus cannot be said to be religious.

What I am not saying is that I want the churches *as they are* to stick their fingers in politics. They already do one way or another (Francis condemning the death penalty as a sin, sending church money to Africa instead of helping Europe first, etc), and it is contrary to Christian behavior. They need to be reformed before they can be trusted.

I am also of the opinion that all churches will always involve themselves in politics because both politics and religions are institutions designed to promote a particular set of ethics. There is an obvious problem when it comes to the seminaries pumping out people who are intellectually dishonest liars that don't mind distorting the truth. I think a realistic solution could only come from something like old fashioned congregationalism and the creation of a new seminary. You can't have a religious institution that's honest on racial differences or theology without a good seminary ensuring each pastor fits the bill. No apostolic tradition can be reformed because you simply cannot be ordained if you hold positions any Episcopalian did 100 years ago.

[casual rapist]

This is mostly an appeal to Christians. I don't really care whether atheists see eye to eye on my prescriptions for the churches, but anyone who genuinely believes in God would be appalled that their "rock" and "fortress" of an institution against evil isn't on the frontlines of politics. ANAG, so anything truly religious (AF isn't) would tackle immigration first as well. My entire issue with organized Christianity is that it doesn't do these things and thus cannot be said to be religious.

What I am not saying is that I want the churches *as they are* to stick their fingers in politics. They already do one way or another (Francis condemning the death penalty as a sin, sending church money to Africa instead of helping Europe first, etc), and it is contrary to Christian behavior. They need to be reformed before they can be trusted.

It's helpful to know how you would answer this question:  Why was it the white man that discovered science? 

Putting your thoughts on that question aside until you reply and jumping ahead-

There are no forms to the temporal world.  Our temporal world is formless. 
The entire purpose of the sacred is to lay down the first forms.  This is its purpose.
This is the grounds of politics.  Politics takes place over and in reference to the sacred. 

Pausing right here and taking stock-
Our churches aren't functioning according to purpose. 
The entire civilization is a flaming bag of shit because it's individual components are dumb retards. 

Dumb faggots that diagnosis, eureka, XYZ "is a new religion.  That's its problem!  It's a false religion" are twice turned around and retarded.  "Religion" isn't a separate thing, subject to propriety.  And other things err when they intrude into its domain. 
"Religion" is properly ALL things, to which everything else appeals for significance.  That's what religion is.

Kikes are blood enemies that should be caught and burned to answer for their crimes and their remainder expelled.  And boomers are and continue to be contemptible retards who have pissed away everything.
That is the state of the entire civilization, the interaction of these two groups.  Everything else is incidental.

Exiting pause and continuing the discussion-
Religion gives man his first forms, which by definition he takes to be real. 

The issue with Christianity as a religion is tied up in its manner of asserting the real. 

Which leads back to the first question- why did the white man discover science? 
If you can see Christianity and science as extension of the same thing, then you have the grounds for seeing the problem.