Selfish, Suicide

[Oldblood]

What are you thoughts on suicide?

In my life I've known two men to commit the act. One did so, leaving behind his two daughters to fend for themselves with a dying mother.
The other hung himself in his 80s after a COVID lockdown induced depression, many suspected a latent mental illness though I think I know the true cause. After being so active and handy his whole life he finally came to know the frailty of old age and the lethargy it enforced. He couldn't take the day to day drudgery of hobbling around from breakfast to lunch to dinner, all the while ailing to waves of health problems.

I think of this when a viral trend remerges among a typically catholic crowd, expressing scorn at some boomer being flown out to Denmark or wherever to be euthanised in a pod listening to Dark Side of the Moon. 
It is sad no doubt, but in my mind, surviving another couple more years of agony to die in a hospital bed with foreigners shoving tubes in your dickhole is no more dignified. I understand it's a sin of course though that's rarely the issue brought up. If someone wants to end their miserable life early I take no issue with it, one less mouth to feed. I myself, do not intend to live beyond 60, unless there are things I must take care of...

So that's old people, perhaps more interesting is the young and healthy taking their own lives.
The prospects of young white men in our nations is currently less than desirable.
Your days in a degenerate society spent working a shit job, the near impossibility of finding a marriageable woman
and in the miracle that you do, raising children aptly in this hell.
Or at least that's how it often feels, and in such circumstances, what is the point?
The only fixing of this would seem to be massive social upheaval and regime change.
This often leads to a uniquely modern martyrdom, in form of mass killing. 
Though bluepilled men cannot articulate this, they can often feel it. 

There's room for discussion here about Seppuku - is trooning out sometimes a form of that? I am guilty of being an unprotected class in this society, therefore ack!

But anyway, I'm interested in what others have to say.

[a system is failing]

I have always wanted to kill myself up until the point I actually put a gun to my head and thought more seriously about it. Ultimately what I realized was I wasn't really in any insurmountable pain or angst and the reason I wanted to do it was to prove a point to people in my life who didn't care about me and hopefully make their lives shittier for treating me badly. I suspect my experience contemplating suicide is one of a variety of types. Because an entirely different type of suicide happens with criminals or people who are getting caught in a big, life altering lie. White collar crime types. Often you hear about these guys killing themselves, but it's obviously a very different and less emotional type of suicidal fit. More just like "fuck having to live through the consequences of this, I'm out." So that's another type. I bring this up because in discussions of suicide I rarely hear anybody mention them. The topic always plays out as though there is only ONE kind of suicide, specifically the death from despair type. A schooler shooter maybe straddles the middle of these categories. A planned suicide that has to do with social reasons but also has that element of avoiding penalty. 

And then you have to factor in ambiguously accidental ones...most of your drug addicts fall under this. They live in a state where they can almost be considered committing suicide actively during any given moment. So when they push themselves over the edge and OD, it's almost like an assumed suicide. 





There's Thing, Japan too. They obviously love killing themselves. And they have a particular perspective on it, that differs much from our own, but this is up to others to really do talk about since I don't study them. I would say the kind of people who think about suicide SHOULD NOT kill themselves, but I respect the impulse. Similar to self-hatred. I'm not sure I admire those who never had these thoughts cross their mind. It's subhuman.

[anthony]

I think there is a general case to be made against suicide that goes beyond "God's rules of arbitrary self-torture say you can't." Ivan Illich believed that suffering and dying were a part of the whole human experience, and so should rightly be considered health. He believed that he should not treat the body's processes as aberrations or problems, even inevitable decline and sickness. He refused to have a developing cancer treated and was disfigured and put through a great deal of pain for it. But he didn't believe that certain things happening to his body had to render him a patient.

This is a rather extreme philosophy, but it's a coherent one. Accusations of sin that don't go this far I don't believe hold much weight.

Thinking about killing yourself is a fairly reasonable thing to do. Obviously I hope nobody I like actually does it.

[Ricky23]

What are you thoughts on suicide?

I don't have any intention here to valorise suicide, not because it's immoral or anything but death seems to be the only truly 'personal' experience you'll ever have in your life and so it seems intrusive to explain to someone how they should die.
However, it must be said people who kill themselves are granted by others a certain hysterical mystique which allows them to be seen in a different light. Separate, aloof, aware of some things others are not. Regardless of the truth of this it can be a useful tool and I do believe this is in part why so many authors kill themselves. It grants this legitimacy to their writings after the fact. I do also think that it's better to die in this way in regards to how your life affects others, your words and actions will be given poignancy. Also I would like to point out that in a sense 'outliving your use' is selfish. It degrades the image of you that people will have in their minds after your death, you will be an insane and declining husk in their heads until they die and no significance at all will be granted to your actions while you were alive. Therefore what good you have done in your life can 
I also believe if your soul is tainted (excuse the overly spiritual language) by callousness or you have lost the ability to perceive beauty, it is then impossible for you to intentionally do a single good deed or anything expedient and so in that circumstance the best and perhaps only good thing you can do is kill yourself. 


Apologies if this is hard to read, the language is simply not there for discussing this subject and so I find it difficult.

[Mason Hall-McCullough]

Suicide rates are highest among the elderly, so I always found it strange that there weren't more elderly mass shooters. Wouldn't being near the end of your life mean you have less to lose by committing a crime? Why do they always choose a quiet death? Stephen Paddock is the only counterexample that comes to mind, but the circumstances surrounding him were very suspicious.

Killing yourself over sad feelings is irrational even if there's good reason to be unhappy with the condition of your life or your nation. It's easy to consciously avoid negative emotion if you care about what you can achieve from your current situation, you can simply choose to not be "depressed". Many modern young suicides are the result of self-pity taken to its natural and ultimate conclusion. Those who die as a result of purposefully trapping themselves in a histrionic spiral to better act the part of the victim are reaping what they have sown. The weakness worship cult incentivizes suicide and I think that's very gay and ugly.

The topic always plays out as though there is only ONE kind of suicide, specifically the death from despair type.

That's quite true. Some more interesting types exist such as suicide cults and and pacts. I don't consider any type to be noble or romantic, however. Some do kill themselves seeking martyrdom although success is rare, and when a martyr is created it's generally not via suicide (arguable as it is that St. Floyd was responsible for his own death). It amuses me that no one so far mentioned the Alan Burnell guy who set himself on fire for Israel or something last month. I suppose Buddhists tricking guys into immolating themselves as was discussed in that thread is another category.

I think seppuku is commonly misunderstood and wrongfully romanticized. It was often done so that the lives of others would be spared, or under coercion as a ritualized form of capital punishment. Later on they wouldn't even disembowel themselves, they would just gesture as if doing so and the second would kill them. Even when a samurai would kill themselves before facing judgement to preserve face in death, I think that says more about how brutal their regimes were and their rigid fixation on family honor, than about the conviction of the individual. Seppuku is a totally separate phenomenon from suicide in the West. I watched the biographical movie but I still don't really understand why Mishima did it, his reason seems to be again separate and personal since the tradition of seppuku was gone by then.

I can understand killing yourself due to debilitating physical illness, particularly in old age. This might be the only cause for suicide I consider valid in modern times. Such suicides are not performative or emotionally volatile, because disability and physical pain dull emotions and reduce a person down to a lower state. By killing themselves they're generally making a rational decision to escape a life of ceaseless pain and truly zero hope. There is nothing romantic about this scenario either. However, suicide should never be sanctioned by the state for reasons that I hope are obvious.

[chevauchee]

"Ultimately what I realized was I wasn't really in any insurmountable pain or angst and the reason I wanted to do it was to prove a point to people in my life who didn't care about me and hopefully make their lives shittier for treating me badly"

This is one type of suicide, an act of spite by the powerless. "Cutting off the nose to spite the face" goes all the way up to destroying oneself in order to inflict any amount of pain in revenge or anger.

The other type of suicide is because we have a capacity as men to sacrifice ourselves not only to save the lives of our immediate family but also for a "greater good", so that your friends and comrades can achieve a higher goal. This instinct can be perverted in certain pathological states, with the suicide believing that he is doing his friends, society, or "the world" a service by sacrificing himself. "X would be better off without me" type of thing.

There is also the particular shame-based suicide in oriental cultures, where one kills himself to prevent generational and familial stigma from attaching to his relations, a lesser bugman class of self-sacrifice.

But it might not be worth thinking too hard about suicide. Man has a will to destroy, and the capacity to consciously destroy even himself in pursuit of greatness, so it is not so surprising that this will can be perverted and turned inward for no good reason.

[Unformed Golem]

Old people killing themselves to spare a few weeks or months of suffering isn't that interesting.  I think in this matter the most important question is one of means; hanging or shooting yourself is simply undignified.  Wandering off into the wilderness or simply not eating anymore seem best offhand.  The empirical experiment being run on "euthanasia" suggests that it's clearly bad.

Modern-style suicide is never justified imo.  I believe that seppuku is best understood as a form of capital punishment but contains a clue about why killing yourself is so bad -- you're essentially being executed by soyciety except in a way that pointedly involves your own complicity.  The samurai was willing to disembowel himself in order to spare his lord the trouble (and more arguably culpability/bad karma) involved in such killing, out of the deep respect and honorful appreciation he had for his lord.  Is this the way you feel about the gay nigger communized longhouse society you live in?  Surely not.  

A better example is the "death frenzy" -- striking out at those who have dishonored you until you yourself are cut down.  Strangely this aspect of bushido seems less popular than seppuku. School shooters obviously come to mind, but they tend to be terrible at target selection.  A poster upthread mentioned they thought of suicide as a way to make worse the lives of people they hated.  You know a better way to do this?  Killing them, and their family or retainers.

[Fateling]

What are you thoughts on suicide?

In my life I've known two men to commit the act. One did so, leaving behind his two daughters to fend for themselves with a dying mother.
The other hung himself in his 80s after a COVID lockdown induced depression, many suspected a latent mental illness though I think I know the true cause. After being so active and handy his whole life he finally came to know the frailty of old age and the lethargy it enforced. He couldn't take the day to day drudgery of hobbling around from breakfast to lunch to dinner, all the while ailing to waves of health problems.

I think of this when a viral trend remerges among a typically catholic crowd, expressing scorn at some boomer being flown out to Denmark or wherever to be euthanised in a pod listening to Dark Side of the Moon. 
It is sad no doubt, but in my mind, surviving another couple more years of agony to die in a hospital bed with foreigners shoving tubes in your dickhole is no more dignified. I understand it's a sin of course though that's rarely the issue brought up. If someone wants to end their miserable life early I take no issue with it, one less mouth to feed. I myself, do not intend to live beyond 60, unless there are things I must take care of...

So that's old people, perhaps more interesting is the young and healthy taking their own lives.
The prospects of young white men in our nations is currently less than desirable.
Your days in a degenerate society spent working a shit job, the near impossibility of finding a marriageable woman
and in the miracle that you do, raising children aptly in this hell.
Or at least that's how it often feels, and in such circumstances, what is the point?
The only fixing of this would seem to be massive social upheaval and regime change.
This often leads to a uniquely modern martyrdom, in form of mass killing. 
Though bluepilled men cannot articulate this, they can often feel it. 

There's room for discussion here about Seppuku - is trooning out sometimes a form of that? I am guilty of being an unprotected class in this society, therefore ack!

But anyway, I'm interested in what others have to say.

When I finally registered I didn't intend on ever posting much, but I feel like I have a "dog in the game" on this subject so to speak so forgive me if I ramble or say a lot of nothing, or occupy too much space. The language around this subject is very hard to use because most of the more precise terms don't comport to the way they're used elsewhere.

I'm not sensy enough to be truly detached and not care about my family's feelings, though the thoughts cross my mind occasionally. There's an allure to the tragic in suicide, and I think that many people want to emulate that because there is no sense of the romantic or tragic in their life. Suicide for most people (thoughtless normals with no inner life at all) is a poor attempt at experiencing what they don't know. If you're a normal who's out having sex and going to parties there is almost certainly no experience of a tragic detachment or superhuman sorrow/longing. In my case on the other hand I like to simply put a loaded gun to my head and remember that I'm in control of myself and nobody else can take that from me.

Seppuku speaks to everyone (whether or not they have suicidal impulses) because everything in history (prior to about 1953 in my opinion) reached a level of impassioned hate, love, and desire that most people can't emulate, and seppuku is a total embodiment of absolute devotion to greatness. All struggle except for the existential racial struggles of high IQ neet/SYM posters seem puerile and sterile. The whole world outside of my own mind seems to mostly lack any character.

Suicide seems to be twofold, in that it can be an "escape" or a "coping mechanism" for people (faggots) who can't mentally handle themselves and their relation to the world. Or it can be the penultimate act (only surpassed by death) of knowing oneself and understanding the world, recognizing that you hold your own value and integrity in higher esteem than the world places on its own. Trooning out is the former, while someone like Hemingway (entering a brave new world as it is bleached of all mental color in the years after the Korean War) is the latter.

I don't condone suicide and I will never be courageous enough to directly end my life because of the little religious faith that I still have. In general the "permanent solution, temporary problem" talking point is correct because only a very few people ever commit suicide other than to escape themselves, but there's no coherent argument against people who do so to fulfill themselves, other than moral objections (or perhaps so called logic).

But I also think that it is often self defeating. What you might think of as a noble suicide (Mishima obviously and Jon Jones also but I would point to Nobunaga and even Hitler if you're not a hopeful person) reaches its ideal in immortality created by the height and peak of the act by ensuring eternal youth in memory. But most SYM who want to kill themselves haven't achieved what they want or can yet, or what they should be able to, and will simply be forgotten.

[Virtue]

Persistent Depersonalization-Derealization Disorder was the diagnosis he received- & with that on top of his persistent accumulation of other mental health disorders over his life, he was given a sentence of three months of monitored living in the institution. He took a plea deal with Flöskel, who charitably cut down their estimation of damages by half after they received Cairey’s testimony regarding his authorship of “Blue Moon,” the painting which had triggered his manic episode. The rest of the money was taken from his meager savings. He was also fined for lease breaking after Abigail got a restraining order against him & moved in with a friend. This was the path of least resistance, & he allowed these contingencies to be taken care of by others. All he did was sign what the lawyers brought him, with the blue pens they would give him, & then he would return to his Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. For the first time since his Youniversity days, he took up filling notebooks in ballpoint pen with sketches of knights, princesses, & black crowned satyrs. He planned to create a masterpiece- a comic book about the lost lake of his dreamworld.

He seemed to be getting better & was eventually released from the institution with disability benefits, & a requisitioned tenement. Provided that he maintain his dosage schedule & make his appointments with his therapists, he would be taken care of for the rest of his life. Sinflate did not offer him his position back, so when he was set free again, in the Autumn, he lived, once more, as meagerly & as tenuously as he had when he’d first graduated. He never looked for a job.

Sometimes, he wanted to. He thought about regaining normality in his life & becoming a productive member of the 21st century socio-economy- & a part of him did want this- but internally, he knew that his only options were the creation of his masterpiece- his dreamworld & paradise- or a responsible suicide which would keep him from leeching any further on the innocent. The former option proved difficult, far more difficult than he had imagined. He faced an onslaught of self-doubts, as he was still unsure whether or not he believed in art, or in his own dreams anymore. He decided to end his life almost every day, after spending hours tracing & retracing random panels of the comic book masterpiece he’d envisioned in part, only to crumple them, shred them, & bemoan the sheer pointlessness of it all. A month into this, he’d even procured a helium tank, as he’d read that this was the most painless method of suicide, but still he let his indecision rule, & procrastinated on a commitment to either option, opting instead to drug himself to sleep.

[Somewhat_Perturbed_Scholar-Bureaucrat]

The prospects of young white men in our nations is currently less than desirable.
Your days in a degenerate society spent working a shit job, the near impossibility of finding a marriageable woman
and in the miracle that you do, raising children aptly in this hell.
Or at least that's how it often feels, and in such circumstances, what is the point?

Wouldn't the same have been true in the Soviet Union?

With access to the Internet and books and grass to touch, entrapment remains incomplete.

Posting on the Amarna Forum affirms that there is more than meatspace.