Sinophilia and Maoism
FruitVendor
What lead to this new strange trend of leftwingers online who ritualistically fellate China as this perfect model that will "destroy" the west?

[Image: BtfwEhdl.jpg]
[Image: rvcy9u5l.jpg]

They swear up and down about Leftoid losers (trans furry w hammer and sickle imagery) should not be let into the mighty People's Republic of China and have this retarded duginist LARP thinking China is this big large multiracial wholesome steppe empire meanwhile the Han Chinese are demographically zergrushing places like Tibet and Uighur territory to solidify an ethnic identity.

Concepts like "Patriotic Socialism" and against the "Baizuo" Anglos of modernity.


I have never seen a single ideology that is so wrong about everything all the time. What type of person does this ideology attract and why?
Notharchus
Byssus already said everything that needed to be said about chyna:
[Image: Mass-knife-attack-in-Yunnan-province.png]
cats
I would disagree that it's leftists who participate in this particular form of posting, speaking generally. I see this as an extension of a right wing phenomenon that started around maybe '17-'18, which I'll call "Soy Orientalism".

The basic motivation behind Soy Orientalism is cowardice and/or a general unwillingness to engage meaningfully with issues of racial and cultural importance in the West. Similar origins to the ubiquitous phenomenon of leftists making jokes about Italians in an obvious attempt to vent their desire to say anything derogatory about their beloved browns and blacks. The people participating in Soy Orientalism obviously have anxieties about the myriad of social issues facing the West, but also know that addressing them directly is liable to get them suspended, turn away "normies", and be damaging to their career prospects if they closely associate their account with their real name a la Aleksa Djuric.

So, like the leftist making snide remarks about Italians while holding an image of a negro in their minds, the Soy Orientalist mentally labels the blacks, browns, and other uncriticizable minorities who make Western society unpleasant to live in as "the West" and then adopts the standards of various despotic Middle Eastern/Southern European/Asian shitholes as their own because aforementioned despotic third world nations totally OWN the West™ by not liking homosexuals, even if their nations have produced nothing of value in all their time on Earth.

Notable Soy Orientalists: Arkadag, Eastern Europeans who pretend to be Turanic steppe people, everybody who has ever said they are a "Titoist" or listened to Mongol throat singing.
Guest
With some "based China" RWers I think it's less about cucking and more about wanting to come off or feel like a big picture strategical geopolitical thinker. Nick Land has these tendencies, as does Spandrel at times. Darren J Beattie has also expressed some "based China" sentiments. These people (or at least Spandrel who I am most familiar with out of them) don't back down from race or other issues.
https://twitter.com/DarrenJBeattie/statu...1540033539

https://unherd.com/2022/02/the-myth-of-c...supremacy/
Here's a nice Luttwak article recently shared by BAP on his Telegram. I especially find amusing his quip about Sun Tzu.
Trep
[quote pid="162" dateline="1645419424"]
With some "based China" RWers I think it's less about cucking and more about wanting to come off or feel like a big picture strategical geopolitical thinker. Nick Land has these tendencies, as does Spandrel at times. Darren J Beattie has also expressed some "based China" sentiments. These people (or at least Spandrel who I am most familiar with out of them) don't back down from race or other issues.
https://twitter.com/DarrenJBeattie/statu...1540033539

https://unherd.com/2022/02/the-myth-of-c...supremacy/
Here's a nice Luttwak article recently shared by BAP on his Telegram. I especially find amusing his quip about Sun Tzu.
[/quote]
Forgot to login this was me.
FruitVendor
Soy Orientalism sounds on the money. 

Wasn't online during the 17-18 pro China wave but caught whiff of some rw people in Eric Striker related circles pointing at images of a European themed disneyland built in China as the ethnostate the based Han are building just for us. 


'Haz' pounding his chest exclaiming "I am a mongoloid" and going off on a 2 minute tangent is the type of fella I was thinking about while making this thread 

Sharmat
The essence of soy orientalism is the ability to paint whatever ideology you want on China and having the ability to LARP as an expert about it as well. It's truly the best of both worlds. I've recently noticed that they've gone the extra-mile and are now extrapolating their red compassionate conservativism on all oriental empires, banking on the average persons historical illiteracy. A truly Faustian effort, I wonder how many historical regimes they'll end up having to juggle as they struggle to substantially defend any of them.
cats
[quote pid="162" dateline="1645419424"]
[...] These people (or at least Spandrel who I am most familiar with out of them) don't back down from race or other issues.
[/quote]

I'll admit that I never followed and am not very familiar with either Spandrel or Beattie. That being said, I still firmly believe that this is still a cop-out, just as reprehensible as other forms of white xenophilia. Someone who sees Chinese diplomats on Twitter make the same complaints about America as mulatto college students do and still believes that China is a great juggernaut for #BasedWorld has to be stupid or too dedicated to their "brand" to drop this '18 meme, both being indicators that you shouldn't trust their opinions.
Sharmat
(02-21-2022, 02:29 AM)cats Wrote: [quote pid="162" dateline="1645419424"]
[...] These people (or at least Spandrel who I am most familiar with out of them) don't back down from race or other issues.

I'll admit that I never followed and am not very familiar with either Spandrel or Beattie. That being said, I still firmly believe that this is still a cop-out, just as reprehensible as other forms of white xenophilia. Someone who sees Chinese diplomats on Twitter make the same complaints about America as mulatto college students do and still believes that China is a great juggernaut for #BasedWorld has to be stupid or too dedicated to their "brand" to drop this '18 meme, both being indicators that you shouldn't trust their opinions.
[/quote]

I don't even think it's really xenophilia, none of these people really have any affection for these countries. It's just the aesthetic of a the based communist empire is easier to project onto eastern despotism than the west. If America was a land shrouded in mystery and secrecy, they would claim it was a Communist republic (some WYDNA chuds tried this but it doesn't seem like it landed).
obscurefish
For the most part none of these people actually like China. They just blame everything wrong with the world on an all-powerful 'Anglo-America' or 'Gay American Empire' etc. which is nothing more than a different flavour of American self-important triumphalism as 'leader of the free world'. 'China' for them is just a photo negative of the USA. Like gigameds and Anthony have said, these guys are neocons who don't realize it.

They keep prophesying the American Empire being shattered in a climactic military defeat at the hand of China. I am here to tell you that everything has already been completed. The Allies lost WWII.
Sharmat
(02-24-2022, 02:44 PM)obscurefish Wrote: For the most part none of these people actually like China. They just blame everything wrong with the world on an all-powerful 'Anglo-America' or 'Gay American Empire' etc. which is nothing more than a different flavour of American self-important triumphalism as 'leader of the free world'. 'China' for them is just a photo negative of the USA. Like gigameds and Anthony have said, these guys are neocons who don't realize it.

They keep prophesying the American Empire being shattered in a climactic military defeat at the hand of China. I am here to tell you that everything has already been completed. The Allies lost WWII.

You're right that none of these people actually like China, but it's less a photo negative and more an exact copy. I dont think he does this anymore, but there was a period of time where Logo would tour the litany of chungus podcasts to talk about his stance on China. I think it was one in dialogue with aimee terese where he claimed that the US and China had identical beginnings and that Chinese republicanism was actually substantially inspired by the US (a half truth twisted into a backstory). 

For chungus orientalists, China is actually the fulfillment of America's republican promise, being itself a continuation of anglo commonwealth traditions. It is America who betrayed its promise by being reincorporated in the (now financialized) British empire, and only China can make America a leader of the free world in the true sense again. Also, could you elaborate on that last point? I've seen it on twitter a few times but no one has expanded on why they think so.
obscurefish
(02-24-2022, 03:20 PM)Sharmat Wrote: Also, could you elaborate on that last point? I've seen it on twitter a few times but no one has expanded on why they think so.
This is what I believe happened:

The German invasion of the USSR inflicted so much economic and demographic damage that, combined with the arms race, the USSR's collapse and Russia's fate as a second rate power were sealed.

The war in Asia and nationalist uprisings sponsored by Japan ended the British Empire and every other European empire in the Far East.

Japan's primary aim in China was to keep China out of the hands of any other major power. This meant securing Manchuria to prevent a Russian incursion from the north, and war with the Republic of China after it had been getting too cozy with the United States. Until the Japanese-sponsored Nanjing government put an end to it Britain and America still enjoyed extraterritorial privileges in China.

By 1945 the Japanese Army realized that the rift between the Chinese communists and Moscow was deep enough that a communist China was not the same thing as a China under Russian domination, so that the survival of the Chinese communists was not incompatible with Japan's aims.

Chiang never got the economic and technical support from the USA that he desired, and the support he did get was contingent on remaining in a war with Japan that he never really wanted (Chiang himself had been educated at a Japanese military academy). He threatened to make a separate peace with Japan multiple times, which resulted in the Cairo conference. Chiang didn't view Japan as the primary long term danger to China, but the Soviet Union. This, combined with the success of the cross-continent Operation Ichi-go, FDR's promise of Manchuria to Stalin, and the Dixie Mission, resulted in him reaching a secret understanding with Hirohito which lead to the 'virtue for malice' policy and Japanese support for the Nationalists after the war.

In early 1945 Japanese intelligence deduced that the USSR would invade Manchuria that summer. This lead to a new policy of 'turning darkness into brightness' whereby the USSR would be encouraged to invade Manchuria in order to lead it into a conflict with the USA. The best Japanese units in Manchuria were relocated to the Japanese mainland to defend against the American invasion, a troop drawdown that the Soviets themselves found puzzling. The Kwantung Army's mission was changed from the defense of Manchuria to the defense of Korea. After the USSR declared war on Japan they were allowed to take Manchuria but were held back from further gains by Japanese resistance in Inner Mongolia, North Korea (Japanese forces actually stopped the Red Army north of the 38th parallel), and Shumushu. Both the battles of Okinawa and Shumushu were strategic victories that demonstrated to the USA and USSR how costly an invasion of mainland Japan would be. Contra 'racing the enemy,' the USSR kept attacking Japan after the atomic bombs and only stopped once they had reached the limits of what they could accomplish.

(Chiang gave the commander of the Japanese forces in Inner Mongolia, Hiroshi Nemoto, who stopped the USSR from occupying China proper, the responsibility of commanding the defense of Taiwan and its islands in 1949, where he was also successful.)

The USA was faced with its own problems. It had expected to be able to prevent Japan from mobilizing new divisions for the defense of the homeland by crippling Japanese transportation infrastructure from the air. Instead, Japan mobilized new divisions in place in the Japanese countryside, where fertility rates had been very high before the war. Worse, Japan had predicted the location of the American invasion precisely. This meant that by August 1945 American intelligence had calculated that, where America had initially expected to outnumber Japanese forces by 3 to 1 in the battle over Kyushu, they now knew that by the time of the invasion they themselves would be outnumbered by 2 to 1.

The US aerial campaign had also failed to stop Japanese production of aircraft. The Strategic Bombing Survey concluded that the drop in Japanese aircraft production was the result of efforts to move the plants underground, and not bomb damage, which would be reversed when those plants came back online in late 1945.

The USA had been constrained in the total size of its armed forces by the decision to focus on industrial production in the '90 Division Gamble'. Additionally, political pressure mounted both from the troops themselves and their families that they be allowed to return home, and the demand for a reversion of war factories back to civilian production was also rising. The decision to focus on the European Theatre meant that most of the men and material the US Army needed for the invasion of Japan was still stuck on the wrong side of the Panama Canal. These soldiers, who had just defeated Germany, were none too keen about being sent over to fight another war with Japan that most expected to last for years to come ("Golden Gate in '48, bread line in '49"). The prospect of mutiny was deeply concerning to America's leadership. What compounded these problems is that the USA had adopted a points-based system for demobilization, which meant that units lost their most experienced and skilled personnel first, to be replaced by green recruits.

America expected to lose so many of these young men in the mountains and forests and beaches of Nippon, that an American soldier who is wounded overseas today, in 2022, will receive a purple heart that was originally produced for the invasion of Japan.

Popular editorials had suggested using gas to hasten the war against Japan, but the Allies had lost so much chemical warfare equipment in the German attack on Bari, that the realities of multi-thousand mile long lines of supply meant the US government knew it would be logistically impossible to launch a strategic chemical offensive against Japan until well into 1946.

The USA had hoped that Soviet entry to the war would resolve this dilemma, and to this end equipped the USSR specifically for this purpose via Operation Hula (which Japanese intelligence was aware of). It is the complete opposite of the fable that the USA dropped the atomic bombs to keep the USSR out of the Far East. In fact, none of America's leaders expected the war to end when it did, though they worked hard to obfuscate this fact after the war.

There had been a 'human experimentation clique' operating in the military and medical establishment of Japan since the 1920s, studying the potentialities of chemical and biological warfare. Hirohito, himself a biologist, personally studied disease-causing organisms and sponsored the biological warfare program. After Japan secured control of Manchuria, an appendage of this clique formed Unit 731 (and there were several more such numbered Units) to expand its work to an industrial scale, far away from any scrutiny they might receive in Japan itself.

In Manchuria, the Japanese Army faced the problem of attempting to deter the largest army in the world, that of the USSR, with the limited budget allotted to them by the civilian government. To solve this problem, they built a network of fortifications along the border (like the Maginot line), developed Manchuria's own economy (which would form the Manchurian clique in Johnson's MITI and the Japanese Miracle), and pursued the development of a strategic biological capability. This last item would compensate for Japan's numerical inferiority to the USSR, like Eisenhower's 'New Look'.

As the war expanded, the Japanese Army established biological warfare units wherever it went, converting civilian facilities such as hospitals and pharmaceutical plants into centers for human experimentation and production of biological munitions. After Pearl Harbor, work shifted towards the development of agents specifically against American staple crops and livestock, and these were field tested against Chinese farms. To my knowledge, the Japanese Army is the only force in history to have ever fielded a biological artillery shell, having figured out how to deploy anthrax this way.

By the time the decision to attack Pearl Harbor was finalized, Japan had already been mass-producing germ bombs for years. The Japanese Army was well aware of the economic disparity that existed vis-a-vis the United States, having commissioned an internal think-tank to study just that. Japanese airpower theorists believed that this advantage could be nullified by bombing American production centers.

General Kanji Ishiwara held, according to a personal eschatological belief. that the wars of the future would be decided by advanced technology and the bombing of civilian populations from the air. He personally tutored Hirohito on this 'Final War Theory,' and Ishiwara supported research into flying wings and biological warfare. Admiral Takijiro Onishi believed that surface navies were obsolete, and fought to establish an independent air force. He had personally flown on airships Japan build based on imported Italian designs in the late '30s. One of Onishi's closest allies was Yoshio Kodama, who handled procurement of materials for the Naval Air Force from suppliers in China. Kodama's colleagues, Ryoichi Sasakawa, personally flew to Italy in Japan's first entirely domestically produced airplane to greet Mussolini, and sponsored the creation of a civilian volunteer air corps with his own private funds, whose airfield he later donated to the Army.

These four men established for Hirohito a private, covert air force. This was funded off-the-books using opium money (such as Hajime Satomi procured for Japanese intelligence) and war loot (Golden Lily). The Chinese nationalists had cobbled together their air force the same way, using the proceeds of triad opium smuggling in the US to buy airplanes from American companies, and employing 'civilian' volunteers to form the Flying Tigers. It was this secret air force which developed very large airships based on Italian concepts (such as Forlanini's Omnia Dir).

On November 3rd of 1944, Meiji's birthday, the Trans-Pacific balloon bomb operation began. The Japanese Navy developed rubberized-silk balloons with attached radiosondes that accompanied the Army's paper balloons across the Pacific ocean, and these balloons were used to gather data on weather conditions over North America. With the success of the balloon bomb program, it was shown that Lighter-Than-Air craft could reach as far inland as Kansas and Michigan without expending any fuel. In June of 1945, Japan publicly threatened to attack the USA using manned balloons, which could fly high enough to avoid any American air defenses.

Japan and Germany operated spy networks inside the USA via Mexico with the help of Spanish fascists. Japan was intensely interested in any intelligence that could be had regarding the American nuclear program, and by 1943 Japan's leadership knew that the USA was serious about producing an atomic bomb. In 1945, Japanese electronic intelligence had detected that a new unit, the 509th, with its own radio call sign, V600, had been deployed to Tinian island, and it was quickly deduced that this was a very unusual new development. Still, despite the fact that the 509th rehearsed the future atomic bombing by dropping 'pumpkin bombs' on Japanese cities, nothing was done about it until after the Hiroshima bombing, when the officer who figured out the radio callsign was decorated at a secret ceremony. And yet, knowing that a 509th mission was being flown towards Kitakyushu (the original target of the Nagasaki bomb), and despite there being interceptors on the ground, ready to be scrambled at a moment's notice, the Japanese Army still did nothing.

(German spies succeeded in poisoning Roosevelt, who had already been in steep mental and physical decline. This, along with conservative forces pressuring FDR to replace Wallace with Truman, made possible a peaceful settlement at the end of the war.)

Japan's leadership knew the a-bomb was coming, and they sacrificed hundreds of thousands of Japanese men and women so that they could have the perfect excuse to escalate the war to a level where they had the upper hand. On August 6th, once America initiated nuclear warfare, Hirohito sent some of his airships across the Pacific, to deliver a secret message to the United States. On the night of August 9th, they landed in Nevada, near Tonopah Army Air Field, where a secret test unit from Wright Field received them. This message demanded that the US would agree to a ceasefire or else Japan would retaliate with biological weapons. On August 10th, Truman decided that he would come to terms with Hirohito.
Notharchus
(02-20-2022, 06:21 PM)Chud Wrote:
(02-19-2022, 05:45 PM)Notharchus Wrote: Byssus already said everything that needed to be said about chyna:
If you have more rare Byssus/Hakan stuff saved, please share. I want to add it to the archive.

I'll start a lost twitter account archival thread so everyone can share their gems
JustinGeoffrey
(02-24-2022, 02:44 PM)obscurefish Wrote: For the most part none of these people actually like China. They just blame everything wrong with the world on an all-powerful 'Anglo-America' or 'Gay American Empire' etc. which is nothing more than a different flavour of American self-important triumphalism as 'leader of the free world'. 'China' for them is just a photo negative of the USA. Like gigameds and Anthony have said, these guys are neocons who don't realize it.

They keep prophesying the American Empire being shattered in a climactic military defeat at the hand of China. I am here to tell you that everything has already been completed. The Allies lost WWII.

This is definitely close to the bone. Both the "tankies" and the RW dissidents view the world through a simple prism of Anglo-bad/Anti-Anglo good. It's reverse neocon thinking. They're staning for Russia is bad enough, but as a former expat in SE Asia, I can tell you that China is the ultimate bugman civilization. Everything they proclaim to hate is embodied in China.
Guest
(02-24-2022, 03:20 PM)Sharmat Wrote:
(02-24-2022, 02:44 PM)obscurefish Wrote: For the most part none of these people actually like China. They just blame everything wrong with the world on an all-powerful 'Anglo-America' or 'Gay American Empire' etc. which is nothing more than a different flavour of American self-important triumphalism as 'leader of the free world'. 'China' for them is just a photo negative of the USA. Like gigameds and Anthony have said, these guys are neocons who don't realize it.

They keep prophesying the American Empire being shattered in a climactic military defeat at the hand of China. I am here to tell you that everything has already been completed. The Allies lost WWII.

You're right that none of these people actually like China, but it's less a photo negative and more an exact copy. I dont think he does this anymore, but there was a period of time where Logo would tour the litany of chungus podcasts to talk about his stance on China. I think it was one in dialogue with aimee terese where he claimed that the US and China had identical beginnings and that Chinese republicanism was actually substantially inspired by the US (a half truth twisted into a backstory). 

For chungus orientalists, China is actually the fulfillment of America's republican promise, being itself a continuation of anglo commonwealth traditions. It is America who betrayed its promise by being reincorporated in the (now financialized) British empire, and only China can make America a leader of the free world in the true sense again. Also, could you elaborate on that last point? I've seen it on twitter a few times but no one has expanded on why they think so.

The interests of China and the United States are so intermingled that there's no logical reason for them to fight an overt conflict, and none of them have any reason to desire the decline or the extinction of the other side. It's a good example of a false conflict between two sides only differentiated by surface appearances. As one can see in, for example, the ongoing Russo-Ukrainian War, China is unwilling to do any effort at all in order to bring down the American Empire. And yet, it is assumed it does, because it is simply assumed that China is an actual competitor simply because it has to be. In this way the chungus orientalist side and the most exalted minds writing for Foreign Policy share the same perspective: the Rise of China is inevitable and it most likely will lead to a cataclysm of the current world order. Foreign Policy thinks this is bad, Logo Daedalus thinks this is good, but as everyone with an idea of how consensus is created knows, this difference is of little significance. What matters is the common worldview that frames the conflict.

China is just the eastern side of the "Empire". The "dialectics" between both are fake, there's no conflict, there's no significant clash of interests, and the collapse of one would lead to the collapse of the other. For both of them, the best that can happen is that they keep reinforcing each other forever while engaging in non-destructive competition in far away lands, while figureheads on each country talk about the inevitable failure of the other.

What has China done to actively support Russia's strike, which, in the Chungus worldview, is one of the biggest blows against NATO imperialism in decades? Why isn't China giving signs of active encouragement and even bankrolling Russia in the same way as NATO is doing with Ukraine? Or even a threat of it if NATO doesn't keep strict neutrality? Why isn't Xi Jinping offering Putin any actual guarantees? Why is the Republic of India, a country that in the chungus universe is close to the Neoliberal Empire, taking far more risks in favor of Russia than China has done so far?
JustinGeoffrey
(02-18-2022, 07:44 PM)FruitVendor Wrote: What lead to this new strange trend of leftwingers online who ritualistically fellate China as this perfect model that will "destroy" the west?

[Image: BtfwEhdl.jpg]
[Image: rvcy9u5l.jpg]

They swear up and down about Leftoid losers (trans furry w hammer and sickle imagery) should not be let into the mighty People's Republic of China and have this retarded duginist LARP thinking China is this big large multiracial wholesome steppe empire meanwhile the Han Chinese are demographically zergrushing places like Tibet and Uighur territory to solidify an ethnic identity.

Concepts like "Patriotic Socialism" and against the "Baizuo" Anglos of modernity.


I have never seen a single ideology that is so wrong about everything all the time. What type of person does this ideology attract and why?

Here's my response: 

1) China is the ultimate bugman/longhouse civilization
2) Left-wingers are closer to the truth when they celebrate Chinese socialism as opposed to retarded RWers who say that China is fascist. The CCP under Xi is legitimately Communist. 
3) "Patriotic Socialism" is not possible in the West atm. Dead issue. Socialism is not the ideal anyway (read Nietzsche). 
4) China is the living refutation of racial homogeneity equaling a high-trust society. China is very low-trust because of a culture of rent-seeking and exploitation. 
5) The RW obsession with "based" China and "based" Russia is merely contrarian cope. Because they hate contemporary Western civilization (and much of it is hateful), they align with whatever power is seen as anti-Western. This causes RWers to be Third Worldists, which is gross. Also, read Chinese media in English--they are big supporters of Globalism.
Massacre
I'd suggest that the preoccupation with the 'End of History' as this big monstrous problem, and the Anglo-Saxon world as the devilish cause/master of it, is really at the core of it all - the animus of UrbanMaoism types toward 'unipolarity' is really the conversion of their uncritical acceptance of Mark Fisher's outlook in 'Capitalist Realism' into a geopolitical frame (this is where Dugin comes in). If you feel a sense of ideological and personal belonging to the M-L lineage in politics, you'll feel a need to be vindicated by an emergent process of structural history - thus imagining an inevitable march of geopolitical and 'civilisational' counter-forces to the Anglo World (as identified with the End of History) allows them a new vision of history in place of the (failed) historicist expectations attached to the USSR.

Beneath that preoccupation lies the following premise: "Unipolarity bad because End of History, End of History bad because Neoliberalism, Neoliberalism bad because commodification, commodification bad because I don't like McDonalds and suburbia."

It's grounded in (largely contrived) aesthetic distaste for the texture of Anglo-American suburban life. If there's a cure, it is to realise that driving a Ford F-150 Raptor, having a big house in the suburbs and a nuclear family, watching The Big Game and eating at Burger King is actually leagues better than anything any other civilisation can offer, aesthetically and otherwise (and that the only reasonable improvements upon this default model of life entail segregation, eugenics, and opening more organic chain stores like Whole Foods).
BillyONare
Mark Fisher is so dumb. “Try to imagine a 4 dimensional cube…it’s really hard right??? Even people who try to explain 4 dimensional cubes represent it as a 3 dimensional object on a 2 dimensional screen or piece of paper. Heh the tragic irony. I’m suicidal because 3 dimensional propaganda has seeped into people’s mind so much that this is the case.” No shit Sherlock. We live in a universe that is mostly 3 spatial dimensions and our visual cortex is structured to imagine 3 dimensional objects because of that.

Respected leftist intellectuals always have the dumbest justifications for the gubbermint owning everything. “If you play a game where you give people money randomly…then you give people who have more money a higher chance at getting more money…then you get wealth inequality…this proves that how rich you are is completely based on luck and the rich keep the poor down by hoarding all duh Monopoly money."
Sharmat
(03-10-2022, 12:44 AM)BillyONare Wrote: Mark Fisher is so dumb. “Try to imagine a 4 dimensional cube…it’s really hard right??? Even people who try to explain 4 dimensional cubes represent it as a 3 dimensional object on a 2 dimensional screen or piece of paper. Heh the tragic irony. I’m suicidal because 3 dimensional propaganda has seeped into people’s mind so much that this is the case.” No shit Sherlock. We live in a universe that is mostly 3 spatial dimensions and our visual cortex is structured to imagine 3 dimensional objects because of that.

Respected leftist intellectuals always have the dumbest justifications for the gubbermint owning everything. “If you play a game where you give people money randomly…then you give people who have more money a higher chance at getting more money…then you get wealth inequality…this proves that how rich you are is completely based on luck and the rich keep the poor down by hoarding all duh Monopoly money."

Thank you for calling out the Mark Fisher question. I genuinely hate the concept of "Capitalist realism" so much because ironically everything he tries to apply to "Neoliberalism" applies to him. Mark Fisher is unable to see that he himself is unable to think outside of the conceptions of the 20th century (particularly in terms of the 60s and the extrapolation of American mass democracy and managerialism into the future through utopian science fiction) and sees every attempt of overcoming his primitive political conceptions as merely denying their existence as some sort of ultimate capitalist ruse. Every time new developments are mentioned in the book, it's almost always a negative. The headphones of his students? Negative, addictive, entrapping. The whole thing is just a case of nostalgia, this is very easy to understand when you realize his ideal of "imaginative futures" is star trek and doing psychedelics.
Vitilitagation
Mark Fischer would devote an entire book about how the capitalist worldview was consuming the entirety of culture and sipped into our brains, but the very moment that something mainstream directly appealed to him, like for example Russell Brand, he would act extremely defensive and with a praise borderline embarrassing. I think this is a very common 10s attitude that still lingers, and that in my opinion, comes from only being able to see culture purely through the social function it performs. As can be seen on Fischer's "critical" writings.

If you think capitalist realism is real then you should break with the entire cultural establishments and intend to build a new one, not wait for Disney to target your demographic. Like the italian situationist that, in a moment of zeal, almost destroyed a Raphael painting by writing some dumb revolutionary slogans. Mark Fischer's work is him recognized he was submissive by nature.
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