Straight homosexuals: a breakthrough in amateur e-sociology
Haruspex
A certain video has inspired such a long series of conversations that I felt the central points made during the discussion deserved to be codified into a proper argument which people could refer to. To those who recognize the phrase in the title already, I am of course referring to this:



Two things immediately come to one's mind when one watches this video, the first of which is JoCat's completely neutered appreciation of women. The entire video is basically a mediation of JoCat's sex drive through the lens of weeb/gamer derived fictional archetypes with little to no actual sexual content, despite the fact that the video is about listing physical traits he finds attractive. The second observation which shortly follows is despite it's off-putting nature its not unique at all, but can actually comfortably fit into an established aesthetic and mode of desiring which seems to be an essential part of late millennial and zoomer online culture. Taking this as our basis, the brightest minds of Skorrcord worked their hardest to come up for an explanation for why people like JoCat exist and what are the common characteristics that unite them.

Straight homosexuals: The Basics

Most "straight" people are spiritual faggots. Homosexuality defined itself by the morality and standards of the sexual revolution and then progressively took over mainstream culture till it transformed what satisfying sex and erotic desire commonly meant. This cultural dominance peaked in the 2010's with the zenith of hookup culture and widespread obsession with paraphilias that have nothing to do with vaginal penetrative sex (anal, bdsm, etc.). This transformation of heterosexuality took on two broad forms, which can be called "vulgar" straight homosexuality and "romantic" straight homosexuality respectively.

Vulgar straight homosexuals are the easiest to define and the least interesting to talk about, simply because of how self evident the phenomenon is. Extreme promiscuity, obsession with sadomasochism and power relations, roleplaying and public sex all define the vulgar type, and one can see its origins in the stereotype of the tight leather wearing faggot sucking someone off at a glory hole in the bathroom stalls very clearly. For these types, sex can never be worthwhile if it's not intentionally filthy, transgressive and ultimately a show of power in it's most debased form. Pure heterosexual lust has been replaced by homosexual fascination with filth, for what defines the post-sexrev homo more than the love of writhing in one's own shit?

Think Medgold. Think Delicious Tacos. If you're imaging a balding 30 year old man getting a blowjob from a roastie on birth control with a nose ring in the back of a fast food joint who's going to brag to his friends about this event later then you know exactly what I'm talking about.

Romantic Straight Homosexuals:

Romantics are much harder to pin down because it's a much more complicated issue despite the label applying to a much smaller and more distinct group. Put in the simplest of terms, it's an outgrowth of tumblr gay/fujoshi fandom shipping culture which is defined by a pseudo-anime aesthetic, an aversion to male domination in all its forms, the sublimation of sexual desire into a parasocial relationship with the fictional archetype of one's choice which culminates in a non-sexual act which implies a high degree of intimacy and familiarity (like sleeping on a woman's thighs) and a desire to be validated and doted upon. The connection to gay fandom culture (obviously a zoomer phenomenon which is entirely different from hardcore late 20th century "gay culture) lies specifically in the obsession with specific "types" (twinks, doms, tops, bottoms, etc.) and their pairing in completely non-aggressive and "tender" ways. If aggression is tolerated at all, it is not to come from the character which the gay fan will identify with. Anyone who has ever interacted with fans of Sherlock, Undertale, Danganronpa or Homestuck has surely experienced what I'm describing before.

The Romantic is not attracted to regular women. When he says he likes milfs, he does not mean actual middle aged women. He means Misato and other anime girls. When he does find a physical woman attractive, it's always one intentionally approximating an anime girl through heavy makeup and editing, like this:

[Image: YjdlMjUxMS5qcGc]

He does not want to have sex with her either. Notice how all the muscle mommy dommy lovers almost never talk about how they want to have sex with their fantasy women, merely about being smothered by her, being beat up, doted on, spit on, etc? The RSH (as opposed to the VSH) is uncomfortable with the notion of a direct sexual encounter, largely because he finds the act of sex itself to be awkward and undesirable, which is why he feels the need to sublimate his sex drive into the virtual in the first place.

The RSH manifests in two forms (high and low) which roughly map onto the first and third world. High RSH focuses much more on the parasocial relationship with the abstract archetype in a non-sexual form, whereas low RSH has a much lower level of abstraction involved and the fact that the fictional character is a stand in for some erotic desire is more obvious. The idealized women involved tend to be wearing skimpier clothes, are almost always "thick", and while they will still never have sex directly they'll still imply it much more than its high RSH counterpart. These are the people that put food on the tables of soft porn Makima artists, and if left to their own devices would worship a slightly more modest depiction of the Venus of Willendorf putting a poor neolithic farmer in a collar.

Origins of the romantic:

As all things before it in this post, my explanation for the origin of this type comes in a pair. 

1) Inherited behaviour from a feminized upbringing. Basically an extension of the BAPist "origin of the homosexual" theory. Because of the lack of a proper masculine model in their lives, they've idealized the feminine perspective to the point where passivity, being a recipient of anothers attention and soft intimacy become the only form of desire that doesnt feel alien to them. This either means the woman takes on the aggressive role (muscle girls, mommies, etc) or both partners are equally passive and subside in contemplation of each other

2) Zoomer asexuality. Despite the fact that sex is wide spread culturally and everything is infused with a sense of perpetual  sexual frustration, there seems to be more of a recognition of it's "weird" or disgusting nature with zoomers, as  well as a profound uncomfortableness with the idea of interacting with it beyond the virtual level. Channeling their sex drive into a sort of asexual contemplation of "girl types" in a generic "I love girls" sense probably allows them to feel more comfortable. I think this ties into the first theory where since both sex and masculine domination are seen as alien, the only channel left to express this desire is through dominant/motherly women who you dont actually have sex with.

A more in-depth discussion on the origins of this type is warranted, but I believe the initial objective of this post has been sufficiently met and that adding too much detail in the OP would smother the possibility of further additions from others. I look forward to your thoughts on this post, both positive and negative.
NuclearAbsolutist
Great OP, JoCat's  video despite me never watching nor I will ever attempt to watch more than 5 seconds of it has become a object of near monomaniacal obsession for me lately. The phenomenon described is of great importance socially. I have some thoughts I may post latter but can't now properly but I have one critique to share.

(01-29-2023, 08:33 PM)Haruspex Wrote: The idealized women involved tend to be wearing skimpier clothes, are almost always "thick", and while they will still never have sex directly they'll still imply it much more than its high RSH counterpart. These are the people that put food on the tables of soft porn Makima artists, and if left to their own devices would worship a slightly more modest depiction of the Venus of Willendorf putting a poor neolithic farmer in a collar.

There is a important cultural and RACIAL aspect here that I feel should have been at least nodded to which is the people who do that-negros and the dark masses have seen their mores in this regard spread in lockstep with the sexual revolution you described. Creating more a spectrum than a strict high low per say in recent years. At least that's how I view it.
[Image: 3RVIe13.gif]

“Power changes its appearance but not its reality.”― Bertrand De Jouvenel
James
I think "heterosexual faggots" makes more sense as a term here, though I agree with the rest.
anthony
(01-29-2023, 09:43 PM)James Wrote: I think "heterosexual faggots" makes more sense as a term here, though I agree with the rest.

I'm inclined to agree. I'll probably post more substantially later, but my first thought is that the current framing suggests that the essence of the thing is "homosexual", when it's not. It's more like an advanced oversocialised sexual underculture, which homosexuals were the first to really develop and live in.
Guest
Without the ability to judge, one's senses quickly degrade.
This will help to explain the romantic type.
Lust itself is different, a pulsing engine.
One can feel it when it is present, and one knows it is absent when it is absent. How else to describe it? But this is the sincere form, one that is generally lacking.
The genuine surprise of a girl who is first consumed...with genuine hunger.
Most men cannot fathom their own hunger and so will turn it another way. The reality of this hunger is dull, but the nature is monstrous. Or -- it is something that everyone knows, something common, that can still destroy anyone at any time.
But maybe I am being too generous. Perhaps the mass of man never has a hunger like this. Perhaps these new forms are merely transposes of past forms. I do not know.
People have slow blood today anyhow, hence the lack of madness when stimmed.
These are some thoughts on the subject.
Bankvole
While tumblr might've had an influence, what we're seeing here is a reaction to the increasing ostracization of the more active, so to say, aspects of male sexuality, and emphasis of the passive aspects. Note also that the second type's standard of beauty is straight up black (thick thighs, big butt, tons of makeup, though this is downstream of the blackening of mainstream (white) culture, which has been ongoing for at least 30 years now). In fact I wouldn't be surprised if the anime these types enjoy was what blacks enjoy as well.
Golgothan
the obsession with decadence and transgression is better attributed to a fixation on the annihilation of one's self, woman, and of God rather than a performative imitation of the homosexual, however this is significantly harder to taxonomize since the causes behind it are entirely arbitrary.

I think the romantic is the truer homosexual of the two. The curated anime girl archetypes, the obese sheboon totem, and every erotic Galatean freak you'll see is always born out of male conceptualization. It's an entirely earnest and heterosexual desire to create the ideal woman for one's own pleasure and fulfillment. the described romantic does not consummate because he does not wish to confess how in line he really is with the rest of men. He's absorbed into adherence status-games and denies sexual gratification for entirely social ends. this should have been the main point of discussion imo since the phenomenon seems to come from an entirely social and performative context.

There's some things i mentioned i feel i need to elaborate on but i'll leave that for later
Zed
Interesting topic, but the analysis is simultaneously too specific and the phenomena is a bit simpler than that. Let's look at an example localized to the culture of Amarna:

>A child grows up lonely without many friends.
>Has a joint desire for both friendship and love. 
>Absent friends and love, constructs a virtualization of someone who can satisfy both.
> ... many years pass ...
>"""all i want is a long haired 10/10 130 IQ magic pixie armanite e-gf who appreciate the importance of TND and can have late night conversations on philosophy under the stars with me."""

For others, the ideal might be a 'gamer girl' or 'art hoe /lit/ girl'. Whatever. In order for 'friendship' with a woman to become possible, it becomes necessary for women to be masculinized in some form or another. The common residual attraction to tomboys is another classic example. The majority of tranny chasers represent yet another manifestation, which seek the most direct masculinized manifestation of their 'ideal women' - indeed, only a small subset of tranny chasers are purely fetishistic and driven by the idea of sexually dominating a feminized boy. This iterates into internal 'transbian' culture as well.
JohnnyRomero
(01-29-2023, 09:34 PM)NuclearAbsolutist Wrote: Great OP, JoCat's  video despite me never watching nor I will ever attempt to watch more than 5 seconds of it has become a object of near monomaniacal obsession for me lately. The phenomenon described is of great importance socially. I have some thoughts I may post latter but can't now properly but I have one critique to share.

(01-29-2023, 08:33 PM)Haruspex Wrote: The idealized women involved tend to be wearing skimpier clothes, are almost always "thick", and while they will still never have sex directly they'll still imply it much more than its high RSH counterpart. These are the people that put food on the tables of soft porn Makima artists, and if left to their own devices would worship a slightly more modest depiction of the Venus of Willendorf putting a poor neolithic farmer in a collar.

There is a important cultural and RACIAL aspect here that I feel should have been at least nodded to which is the people who do that-negros and the dark masses have seen their mores in this regard spread in lockstep with the sexual revolution you described. Creating more a spectrum than a strict high low per say in recent years. At least that's how I view it.

The proliferation of the oft-ignored African gynocracy is an aspect of American negrification that was often ignored by less racially-sensitive commentators (Evola et al) who were more fixated on the much more obvious and offensive barbarism of an increased taste for loudness, violence, and thuggery than that much more deep-rooted and insidious trait of the Dark Continent.

(01-30-2023, 01:22 AM)Bankvole Wrote: [...] though this is downstream of the blackening of mainstream (white) culture, which has been ongoing for at least 30 years now). [...]

You are far too optimistic at only 30 years. See Carl Jung writing in the 50s:
Quote:Another thing that struck me [in the American] was the great influence of the Negro, a psychological influence naturally, not due to the mixing of blood. The emotional way an American expresses himself, especially the way he laughs, can best be studied in the illustrated supplements of the American papers; the inimitable Teddy Roosevelt laugh is found in its primordial form in the American Negro. The peculiar walk with loose joints, or the swinging of the hips so frequently observed in Americans, also comes from the Negro. American music draws its main inspiration from the Negro, and so does the dance. The expression of religious feeling, the revival meetings, the Holy Rollers and other abnormalities are strongly influenced by the Negro. The vivacity of the average American, which shows itself not only at baseball games but quite particularly in his extraordinary love of talking – the ceaseless gabble of American papers is an eloquent example of this – is scarcely to be derived from his Germanic forefathers, but is far more like the chattering of a Negro village. The almost total lack of privacy and the all-devouring mass sociability remind one of primitive life in open huts, where there is complete identity with all members of the tribe.
parsifal
(01-30-2023, 10:23 AM)JohnnyRomero Wrote: ... American negrification that was often ignored by less racially-sensitive commentators (Evola et al) ...

https://counter-currents.com/2015/10/negrified-america/
consider yourself warned about countersignaling evola.
Bankvole
(01-30-2023, 10:23 AM)JohnnyRomero Wrote: You are far too optimistic at only 30 years.

I was too optimistic for one simple reason: I am not American, and thus anything I say about US history is often inaccurate.
Svevlad
Vulgars exist to ruin sexual discourse. Say "would" or anything sexual in nature towards a picture of a woman, you are automatically a sleazy MedGold type. Romantics exist to ruin Romantic discourse, since everything has to be about le dommy mommy gf bullshit. "WOOD RAYP LIKE ARYAN STEPPE CHARIOTEERS RAYP LONGHOUSE MAMMY" in full ludicrous BAP tone is the only answer to both, really.
Haruspex
I'm seeing some valid criticism of the post (both on the forum and elsewhere) and while I do plan to answer these directly eventually I think an elaboration on the theory would be more fruitful as it would help dispel some of the misconceptions people seem to have. I'll be splitting this into two posts, one providing an idea of what healthy healthy heterosexual desire looks like as a contrast to OP and a post placing the RSH type into the wider context of "zoomer types" that will focus on racial and socioeconomic factors that I only lightly touched on in the first post. This post will be dedicated to the former topic.

It doesn't make much sense to diagnose a sickness without a proper understanding of what proper functioning is supposed to look like and why, and as such most conversations about sexual deviancy are completely worthless because they either fail to provide a normative claim of how relationships are supposed to function or fail to satisfyingly justify it in anyway besides half-hearted appeals to God or to microwaved evo-psyche arguments. I hope to make a small step in the right direction by pointing out the basics of healthy male-female dynamics, the essential differences they emerge from, and the reason why conforming to them is beneficial. 

Women exist as passive objects of contemplation and are happiest when they fully submit to their nature and dedicate themselves to this role. Nothing about their bodies is very practical for anything besides the rearing and sustaining of children, and all female behavior can be abstracted from the basic act of reception and transmutation during pregnancy. At the level of the intimate relationship, this means receiving the idiosyncrasies and fixations of her boyfriend/husband and enriching them through her validation and genuine care. The smarter a woman is, the more she leans into this social/intimate form of reception as she realizes that any man of genuine worth will desire to imprint himself beyond the physical and to showcase the worth of his wife (and by reflection his own worth) through symbols of exclusivity and power in the communities that he is a part of. This is juxtaposed to more vulgar women who cannot transcend the base physical component. It is no coincidence that as culture has gotten progressively negrified (and therefore necessarily lower class), female attempts to win the attention of men have been reduced to physical gyrations (twerking) and accentuation of secondary sexual characteristics.

As their counterpart, men are designed to live an active life through which they can freely self develop and ultimately leave a legacy which transcends their death. The basic male impulse is towards immortality reached through struggle, with the lowest of men being satisfied (usually unconsciously) through having children and the greatest of men through the foundation of religions, peoples, nations and empires. The capacity to concretely think of the future and eternity is a male trait, and women who can do so were either taught to think like a man or are simply spiritual lesbians. As BAP has said before, being around women can make a man feel calm because women live in an eternal present which is free of the worries of the future and the regrets of the past.

Applying this principle to relationships and we get an understanding of the proper form of romance as a sort of striving to transform a woman into an eternal symbol of beauty which uplifts a man through her passive acceptance and reflecting of who he is to create a sum which is greater than a total of its parts, her validation in some sense standing in as a validation from nature or possibly something higher. It is a vision of romance which is free from gynocentrism without retreating into cold isolation.

[Image: tumblr_inline_pk08gtpix21snovbg_500.jpg]


Understanding this, the deviancy of the RSH type is made much more clear. The RSH wants to domesticate himself into the position of a slave or a pet, to be doted on and loved as a captive animal and nothing more. He desires no space of his own, no legacy of his own, no property of his own. If any imprinting is to be done at all, it is to be done by the woman onto him, as she is the only one who is allowed actual agency or personality. Its a vision of life and an inclination that can only emerge out of a profound brokenness and confusion.
Albicacore
The RSH typically comes from households where the mother has most of the control. This is why the majority of RSHs are asian. They grow up with a controlling mother and a relatively docile father. During their childhood, they develop somewhat of an Oedipus complex. This later surfaces in a desire to be submissive towards women in their fantasies. The RSH is a weak man from a gynocentric home who wants a woman to take all their responsibilities and coddle them.
[Image: HfVqWXY.jpg]
I simply follow my own feelings.
Datacop
(01-30-2023, 09:40 PM)skorr Wrote: Second, I will argue that the RSH is not as "asexual" as he tries to seem. Hiding it is part of it - he would never want to seem creepy. But he is very much motivated by fetishes, a warped sex drive, and general faggotry. He masturbates frequently, whenever he isn't having sex, and not in a based gigacoomerian way.

The false asexuality is the part that offends me the most about it straight faggots. Unspeakable sexual fetishes probably stems from of most people's sexual history nowadays being started with internet porn that they hide from their parents, as opposed to headlong childhood romance or outright boarding school repression. For modern day young men, sex starts as a pathetic self-soothing jerkoff sesh in the shared bathroom before dinner. No disrespect to my goonchads, but masturbation doesn't teach the sexual interplay between men and women like coercing a flesh-and-blood female into the act of penetration. Having no frame of reference for intersex dynamics beyond having to please your mummy and self-indulgent porn, its not a surprise that so many people develop passive, perverted understandings of their role in sex.

(01-31-2023, 02:27 AM)Albicacore Wrote: This is why the majority of RSHs are asian. They grow up with a controlling mother and a relatively docile father.

I see the phenomena most often in mixed race young men, be it hapa or mestizo, but this is very region-based. There's definitely a direct correlation between deracination and the death of the father figure.
Guest
(01-31-2023, 10:39 PM)Datacop Wrote: No disrespect to my goonchads, 
[Image: 9f7.jpg]
“…”
Hamamelis
I'm not sure I agree with OP's etiology of pure infiltration by gay culture, at least as far as the RSH/RHF subtype goes. I think it is partly caused by the thorough negation of all male, violent, and sexual impulses in boys. This subtype is afraid of expressing sexual desire openly. He fears the scolding voice of his teacher, or of her friends, should he express himself to the object of his desire. Maybe he fears being laughed at as well. Certainly, the reason he creates these fantasies of tenderness around make-belief women is that he knows it's sexual - that's why it can't be a real woman. But admitting that it's sexual would be crossing the line, so he leaves it a tenderness instead. Diminished to the status of a pet.

Worryingly, I think I have met a bunch of these, and am meeting increasingly more of them. They are always physically unimpressive specimens, never even fat, but simply doughy. Sometimes, dare I say, I meet women (zoomer-aged, ofc), who seem to fit this type to the point of being seemingly uninterested in men, and more into women, even thought they are straight.
Frank
While you're correct in identifying the two distinct strains of straight homosexuality, I think RSH is just a level of social refinement placed on VSH. They both derive from the same motivating factors, but certain normgroid circles place great value on not appearing aroused in the slightest. This is largely driven by females who call men "creepy" when they show honest sexual desire, so it's no surprise that Tumblr is the genesis for RSH. RSH is created by VSH being distilled until all "horny" is removed. Some people are more open with approaching the taboo, so they create less refined RSH, what you call low RSH. Anything to avoid "scaring the hoes."

I don't know if anyone's touched on "horny" in the Norwood Vocal Tics thread but it surely deserves a mention. The word itself has morphed into new word classes. It's not even about actual feeling anymore, it's just being lewd or bawdy. Express any explicit sexual desire, even as a joke, and you're labeled horny - yet they constantly obsess over sex and desire through a mask of metaphor. They dance around sexual desire like cucked right wing people dance around saying nigger. They're thinking it, they want to say it, they pretend like they're going to say it, but they just can't put the six letters together.
Zed
A few other thoughts:

1. One aspect that I think people are overlooking is the role that testosterone plays in male sexual selection. The tastes of high-T men are always substantially different from that of low-T men.

2. A linguistic remark: Another thing I've observed in right-wing communities is a reflection of the pathologization of heterosexual male sexual desire that occurs within leftist frameworks. Where the left screeches about the 'male gaze', many in rightist spaces rush to attack porn, vulgarity, and promiscuity. This place is more nuanced about these things, but one has to ask: Is this really an effective linguistic frame? As amusing as the twice-over oxymoron of 'romantic straight homosexual' is - it seems counterproductive to introduce such language if the ultimate goal is de-subjugating male sexual desire. The underlying concepts are very much worthwhile and the discussion is interesting, but one should take care great care in naming things. One of the way that the left wages war on the right is by attempting to generate correlations between non-shitlib male behavior with homosexuality. It's an effective tactic, but probably not one to be imitated if you don't share their goals.
Datacop
(02-01-2023, 08:24 AM)Hamamelis Wrote: I'm not sure I agree with OP's etiology of pure infiltration by gay culture, at least as far as the RSH/RHF subtype goes. I think it is partly caused by the thorough negation of all male, violent, and sexual impulses in boys. This subtype is afraid of expressing sexual desire openly. He fears the scolding voice of his teacher, or of her friends, should he express himself to the object of his desire. Maybe he fears being laughed at as well. Certainly, the reason he creates these fantasies of tenderness around make-belief women is that he knows it's sexual - that's why it can't be a real woman. But admitting that it's sexual would be crossing the line, so he leaves it a tenderness instead. Diminished to the status of a pet.

Hard agree with this, I think the error goes so far as to invalidate the terminology, it needs tweaking. Like Guest James said, "hetero faggot" or "straight faggot" is far more accurate than "straight homosexual"; we're not accusing RSH or VSH of secretly wanting to fuck men, but acting like fags. The phenomena is homosexual only in that it and homosexuality stem from similar roots, i.e. males (often low-T) growing up neutered and with distorted and perverted expectations of the roles of men.
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