The Path to Ultimate Power: How Do We Win?
Meredith
There's no need for a long preamble here; the blunt question is that whether you call it "Our Thing", the "Dissident Right" or "the Esoteric Hitlerist Incelbund", we do not actually have any kind of path to victory.

Twitter is full of arguments over US state divorce, critical support for Russia's invasion, critical support for EU/NATO, critical  support for China...all of which betray our extreme weakness, and frankly our desperation.

This is a thread for discussing ways out of this century-long downwards spiral we've found ourselves in. 

If this thread comprises a threat to this forum continuing, feel free to delete it, I would like this place to last a while longer.
FruitVendor
Independent meritocracy of 140iq White men who are able to get a steady supply of U235 to fuel Breeder reactors/selling energy. India has a shitload laying around.

"War" is primarily fought with demographics and sanctions. Russia's gdp is smaller than Texas but can squeeze the testicles of the world by withholding ammonia/natgas and people have to kiss up to illiterate Saudis. Energy moves the world. Energy is the "real" economy - not FAANG social media pretty pictures on screens, marvel ticket sales & real estate.

The big problem with ethnostate cargo cult thinking is that you actually have to produce something. You have to be a cut above the rest. My 0.02c.
BillyONare
@FruitVendor Great post. Empirically accurate, however the only reason The West is not 10x stronger than Russia is because The West is controlled by spiritually sick communists. Money is energy and in the past and future there will be a more perfect correlation between the two. Bitcoin solves this. I don’t think demographics matter unless you have said communists forcing them to matter.
Meredith
An aside on what both of you said: 

the globalist control of the West requires a wholesale destruction of its eugenic and dynamic energy in order to maintain total political control and stifle any true opposition emerging.

Should we manage to seize control of a significant nation, the resulting power unleashed would place ZOG under an unprecedented amount of pressure, to which they have not coped with in 80 years: and as a result of 80 years of trading competency for loyalty, ZOG is much weaker against a real opponent. As Bane said: victory has defeated them.
Guest
Sorry chaps, I hate to break it to you, but it's over. Thirty shekels to the next Amarnite to betray his fellows!
BillyONare
“Praxis.”

“Errr…maybe more like El Salvador. Let’s be realistic.”

“Praxis.”

“El Salvador.”

“Nigger.”
Meredith
Excellent post, Heil. I think a key aspect to this is to be able to manipulate existing institutions to our advantage, as you said.

We don't yet live under China or the Soviet Union - and they must at least act like it, to keep the facade of their legitimacy going. Building these networks keeps our people engaged in valuable work and involved with others - networking feeds upon itself, in that way. 

It still isn't nearly enough on its own - but it doesn't have to be. We must attack and defend on all fronts, all the time.
BillyONare
I don’t like this talk about networking and joining groups. That’s the fast track to getting the Eye of Sauron on you, especially if they are one of those groups that autistically keep a ledger of Official Members. You also can’t trust all of the members of every group. America First is the best group; I respect Nick, but even most of that group is stupid pieces of shit who might stab you in the back over some perceived slight or disagreement. Find a way to enrich your own life and prepare for if SHTF. If you are smarter than everyone else then write blog posts and books outlining your philosophy. Keep an accurate record of what is happening now for future generations. The best way to defeat the fiat governments is starving them with Bitcoin while keeping yourself safe. Political solutions are for if that doesn’t work. Try to get the ear of sympathetic players in the corporate world like Musk and Thiel. Encourage them not to compromise. Money is not power, but these people could become unimaginably powerful if they got their noses out of computer books, had a glass of brandy, and took a couple hours to actually understand what is happening in the world (The Right Wing Perspective). I really can’t endorse anything beyond these things.
Trep
I believe that strategies for taking power will generally fall into three categories, these being “inside and through the system”, “inside and against the system” and “outside the system”. Inside and through strategies are the traditional “political solutions” (but probably with a coup at the end). This includes electing someone like Trump or Zemmour and crossing our fingers that they are a capable political genius who maneuvers themselves to a winning position. Winning eventually requires going against and destroying the system of course. Hitler proved that this strategy is possible if the conditions are right. In this strategy, no laws are broken right up until the moment power is taken (you could say this is a truism for any successful coup), or potentially even at all. The problem with this is that no electable politician will fully avow what we want, so we have to guess and hope that they are truly based. The political genius and talent it would take to perform this strategy is also extremely rare. Additionally, with demographic change, electing a right-wing leader will become harder and harder, as well as the fact that elections can simply be rigged.

The second strategy, inside and against the system, includes things like forceful military coups or other non-auto-coups. The problem with this strategy is that either we have no control over it at all, and simply have to hope and pray, or it takes years or decades of careful planning for a slim possibility of payoff and is generally not realistic.

The “outside” strategy includes setting up mannerbunds, mafias, parallel institutions (including financial, as well as justice systems, and up to an entire parallel government), civil war, and even the fun and epic invading a Caribbean Island strategy. Regardless of the arguable silliness of this last suggestion, I believe the creation of a new aristocracy and the building of strong groups with high social trust is necessary for any victory no matter the proximate means. This strategy is also necessary if we adopt the view that this civilization is dying and can’t be resuscitated (I don’t necessarily, but its best to plan for the wort case scenario). Even if crypto or something else brings down the regime, something needs to take its place, and of course, we want that to be us!

I think it’s best to focus on the first and third strategies. Moldbug actually had an interesting idea a while back involving the creation of a political interest/pressure group that coordinated the votes of its members and thus could gain power over politicians. If this gang became big enough, its leader would be the most powerful guy around and the gang becomes the regime. This is another thing that an NGO organization could take part in.
Meredith
For me, networks themselves are not enough, and should only the the preserve of those able. 

However, you illustrate my point: America First is deeply flawed, and seems to have already run into the sands. But no matter. It has already accomplished its purpose, which is normalisation, and the pushing of the Overton Window in the right direction.

One must be "clearpilled" about these things. Nick Fuentes will fail. It does not matter. Spencer already failed, as did Sargon, and so many like them: it does not matter. They have, with many others, all made the impact they needed already. 

It is like a great game, akin to the imperial skullduggery  between the British and Russian empires in the 19th century. Agents, double agents, secret societies, fermenting rebellion, endless twists and turns. Personally, I rather enjoy such an aspect. But the stakes are so appallingly high now, so we must take it seriously.

In addition, for me, forming connections on the inside is also important, but please note: Elon Musk is not, has not, and never will be on our side. He is fully embedded with the enemy.

@Trep excellent post. The part about building social trust is crucial. We must be able to rely on one another. The creation of a new world is a colossal undertaking, and requires an unbroken brotherhood to pull it off.

The idea of military coups isn't as far fetched as you might think. Several nations are ripe for Bolshevik style subversion of the army.
Trep
(03-12-2022, 09:24 PM)Meredith Wrote: The idea of military coups isn't as far fetched as you might think. Several nations are ripe for Bolshevik style subversion of the army.

I wouldn't rule it out completely, but since I'm not in the military and don't plan on joining there's not much I can do besides wait and support it if it happens.

(03-12-2022, 09:24 PM)Meredith Wrote: The part about building social trust is crucial. We must be able to rely on one another. The creation of a new world is a colossal undertaking, and requires an unbroken brotherhood to pull it off.

Pictured: Amarna Forum meetup 2023:
[Image: 6e6c69fa2aabc82ca718bbaee678eebc59ab03d7...0d4a61.jpg]
[Image: 1c0b286b8650b4eaf9d2876beab4a240b7cc49f9...9e1a6e.jpg]
BillyONare
Although @tinkzorg is a socialist dumb retard YNBAW etc he wrote one good article about The Decisive Battle strategy. The most winning move for The Left is to provoke a Decisive Battle and wipe out The Right in a single event. The problem with this is that The Right can just be clearpilled and not partake in this battle and then automatically win peacefully through gaining more resource production than The Left like you would in a video game faction that has advantage in the late game. The Left is declining, mikka forgive me for saying this unironically, because they violate Natural Law. The Right grows stronger over time by adhering to Natural Law such as Classical Liberalism and Marital Rape. Parallel institutions might be a natural step in this process. Just have to avoid conflict and scrutiny while being smart and virtuous.

And this doesn’t mean to cuck to everything The Left does like Rod Dreher. Sometimes you have to put your foot down and not accept a job offer that requires vaccination or something. Just Bide Your Time.

@Meredith You are not clearpilled. Elon Musk is the Star Prophet and will drop 5 kilometer long tungsten rails from orbit onto any capital city caught violating Natural Law such as is written in The Bible about Sodom and Gomorrah. #NRx #liberalism
Guest
"Heil's idea, but combined with the Propaganda Due Wikipedia page."

"..."

"Psychometrics."
Guest
I've always liked the the idea of setting up a half-assed secretly based lgbt NGO/charity to help form a mini orania by transferring good people from australia to ire/eng, would be easier to get away with it than by forming something obvious like 'anglo-celtic heritage/language group', 'european buddhists group etc'.... Maybe transferring operation to Romania or European borderlands would be better than say England so i'ts harder to be investigated on the ground, could justify things like translators (using google translate) lol.... But main problem, as has been mentioned above, is getting good people/vetting them, income etc into starting such a thing.
JustinGeoffrey
(03-12-2022, 07:08 PM)Heil Wrote: An important thread. It is my belief that too little has been said on what actually needs to be done and too little dreaming in that area, instead our thing has spent it's time indulging in silly fantasies of doing nothing.

Recently I have seen a BAP tweet that I think states the obvious here: "If you're some years into this thing of ours and you're not making few close frends mafia where you can begin to put loyalty to each other over loyalty to fake modern states and faker modern opinions of men ("ethics" and so on) you're NGMI". We have been given the "playbook". We have been given literature (Codreanu's Nest Leader for instance). We are even starting to see small movements grow all over the globe, but where do we go from there?

Gentlemen. The path to any of our goals very clearly starts with the creation of our own organizations/groups/mannerbunds. Everything else will come later when these organizations are powerful enough to start influencing policy, economy, and public opinion. Eric Zemmour is becoming successful BECAUSE he has the backing of a media organization. Trump eventually failed because he did not have important backing. Fox News did not support him as much as they could have and this resulted in a weakness for his public appearance. The key here in my opinion is to start building these groups even more. But not just making these small groups, we need to be expanding and diversifying these. We need to start creating our own Non-Governmental Organizations (NGOs). Non-profit NGOS are hilariously exempt from many standards. We need to be creating our own businesses and supporting our own members. We've seen low level efforts like this, the book-merchants in our sphere are getting some money out of it (the low-level publishing companies and the authors/self-help book shills), but it's not at the level it needs to be. We need more driven people like Rich for instance (https://www.subscribestar.com/posts/277181) who are willing to make their own more specialized organizations and be pioneers for our thing. People are very comfortable giving money anonymously to these organizations online, but we need people to actually start making them. I'm not talking about a long march through the institutions, I'm talking about creating power bases that allow us to actually do things. Hitler and Mussolini both formed their own organizations and found the backing of powerful companies and institutions. These companies and institutions have grown even larger since then. If they had more power than governments back in the 1920s and 1930s then you can't even imagine how much more power they have over them now. We need to start creating our own Ford Motor Companies.

I have already found some ideas for businesses/organizations that I think could be successful in our sphere.
-Ethnic background DNA companies similar to Ancestry DNA and other companies that use your dna to tell you your ethnic composition. The key being that they will keep your data safe and not sell it like these other companies, also selling cheaper kits in order to compete with existing companies. I believe personally (with little knowledge on the subject) that the prices for dna testing kits right now are rather over-priced and that there may be room for competition in the field.

I will now take the rest of this post to explain a big idea that I think will have some merit.
A non-profit organization built from donations to give stipends/scholarships/other necessary funds for alienated and promising youth that are in our sphere and live somewhere in the broader European spheres who want to emigrate to Europe. The purposes of this organization will be many.
-A current halt in the great replacement by scraping the genetic barrel of European colonies to reintegrate those with significant European dna back into European societies.
-Stuffing the ballot box so to speak, these people will move to Europe and take advantage of lax immigration laws in order to become citizens and vote for our own parties and support our own movements.
-Taking advantage of the momentum we have created in the rest of the world and channeling it back into Europe.
Ideally we would be collaborating with other organizations in our thing who would be involved in the vetting process (allowing members of casa pound to decide who makes the final cut for money in order to immigrate into Italy and likewise with other countries).

I will now address arguments that have been proposed to me on the subject:
"This sounds like abandoning America and other former European colonies/enclaves"
Yes. It is true that we would be taking members of our thing away from other countries and focusing them into only one place--the EU. This is in my opinion the best decision. Our movements have been failures in non-European countries but enjoyed overwhelming success in European countries. BAP, Cultured Thug, and many others have acknowledged this. Why not capitalize on success?
"How would you decide who gets to go?"
Volunteer members and others (mainly organizations beholden to our thing like mentioned prior) would be involved in the vetting process. Ideally we would be sending people mostly pure dna to their countries of origin, such as people with 75% Danish dna to denmark, and so on. Many have overestimated the genetic degradation abroad. Some Americans who have been in America for generations are still 100% racially "pure", Conan O'Brien for instance.
"Where would you get the funding for this?"
As a non-profit organization we would be taking donations, mainly online. We could potentially partner with European companies looking for high skilled labor who might donate money to us to support our endeavors, it is very common for companies to donate money into recruitment methods such as this and we could even secure jobs for our future emigres.
"How would you avoid media attention and laws made against this?"
I am not particularly knowledgeable about European laws and as such do not know as to the legality of this, but I do believe that it is entirely legal. As I understand it, as an NGO we could get away with not publishing any data on our selection process or lying about it. Otherwise, creating a legal entity may not even be necessary for the facilitation of money flow, only a private network of people involved.

In conclusion to my post: These are just some of the ideas that I have brainstormed and am personally interested in involving myself with. Clearly there are many more that could be realized by other members of our thing. If you take one thing away from my post, I hope it is that you decide to stop involving yourself in escapist fantasies on twitter about invading a small island in the Caribbean to make into a wignat utopia, and start thinking bigger picture, and dreaming big. We are currently a movement of dreamers on par with the warrior poet D'annunzio. We need to start realizing our dreams on a level bigger than that of a single city-state. We all agree that corporations have gotten bigger and gained more power than the countries they inhabit. We all agree that we are struggling to get anything accomplished at the national level. So the obvious answer to this is to go bigger: the international organizational level. Groups like Wagner for instance are incredibly successful--we need to start thinking at that level.

As an old stock North American, I do not like the idea of abandoning this continent, but I must admit you have fine ideas here.

I am a big fan of the "strike everywhere" strategy. If nothing else, the right in the West simultaneously suffers and benefits from de-centralization. We should use this mobility to integrate small cadres and individuals into different arenas, with each move designed to achieve some level or layer of power. 

1) Low-level democracy: the interwar right used democracy in the truest sense by appealing directly to the people. I would never call myself a democrat, and I loathe mass democracy. But Athenian democracy, for all its faults, was masculine and militaristic. The democratic ethos is also one of the only movers of history at the moment. Therefore, /ourguys should get serious about participating in the basics of low-level democracy. Join a local chapter of the GOP or Conservatives or whatever the most popular center-right political party is in your country. Join a campaign. Make connections. In the US, I would highly suggest getting to know and befriend your local sheriff and/or DA. Too many on our side get wrapped up in purity when they should be finding ways to appeal to normies who love all the trappings of the acceptable right. 
2) Moldbug's political pressure groups and NGO idea is excellent. Not much more needs to be said on that front. 
3) Grow the parallel economy -- right-wing business support networks, homeschool associations, literary collectives, etc. 
4) Infiltration of the military, police, and academia. This one is the most difficult because of increased surveillance and gross spiritual conformity. More or less off the table for anyone not adept at taqiyya. 
5) Formation of secret societies. Owing to constant spook surveillance, our guys need to form secret societies with little to no online footprint. This would make organizing extremely difficult, but it is still possible. A lot of interwar political parties either began as secret societies (Thule, UR) or as small circles of likeminded gents (the Futurists, Stefan Georg's "Secret Germany"). Maybe form groups that are seem nonpolitical on the surface but have a deeper core of political operatives. 

The big key here is to refrain from purity spiraling or typical Internet flamewar horseshit. The goal of the right should be the attainment of power, both cultural and political. Anything that accomplishes that is good. 

My one big concern is military training. Let's face it -- no mannerbund is worth a damn unless its men have some kind of shared military background. Even Himmler, who was mocked as a failed chicken farmer, served in the Freikorps. Given the "woke" infection of the Western militaries, I understand why so many are loathe to serve. But, what replaces it? These skills are necessary. Should we consider PMCs? Volunteer training orgs? I welcome any suggestions.
BillyONare
Quote: 2) Moldbug's political pressure groups and NGO idea is excellent. Not much more needs to be said on that front.

Link?
Trep
(03-13-2022, 09:34 AM)BillyONare Wrote:
Quote: 2) Moldbug's political pressure groups and NGO idea is excellent. Not much more needs to be said on that front.

Link?

https://graymirror.substack.com/p/automa...r-vote?s=r
Verl
(03-13-2022, 08:06 AM)JustinGeoffrey Wrote: As an old stock North American, I do not like the idea of abandoning this continent, but I must admit you have fine ideas here.

I am a big fan of the "strike everywhere" strategy. If nothing else, the right in the West simultaneously suffers and benefits from de-centralization. We should use this mobility to integrate small cadres and individuals into different arenas, with each move designed to achieve some level or layer of power. 

1) Low-level democracy: the interwar right used democracy in the truest sense by appealing directly to the people. I would never call myself a democrat, and I loathe mass democracy. But Athenian democracy, for all its faults, was masculine and militaristic. The democratic ethos is also one of the only movers of history at the moment. Therefore, /ourguys should get serious about participating in the basics of low-level democracy. Join a local chapter of the GOP or Conservatives or whatever the most popular center-right political party is in your country. Join a campaign. Make connections. In the US, I would highly suggest getting to know and befriend your local sheriff and/or DA. Too many on our side get wrapped up in purity when they should be finding ways to appeal to normies who love all the trappings of the acceptable right. 
2) Moldbug's political pressure groups and NGO idea is excellent. Not much more needs to be said on that front. 
3) Grow the parallel economy -- right-wing business support networks, homeschool associations, literary collectives, etc. 
4) Infiltration of the military, police, and academia. This one is the most difficult because of increased surveillance and gross spiritual conformity. More or less off the table for anyone not adept at taqiyya. 
5) Formation of secret societies. Owing to constant spook surveillance, our guys need to form secret societies with little to no online footprint. This would make organizing extremely difficult, but it is still possible. A lot of interwar political parties either began as secret societies (Thule, UR) or as small circles of likeminded gents (the Futurists, Stefan Georg's "Secret Germany"). Maybe form groups that are seem nonpolitical on the surface but have a deeper core of political operatives. 

The big key here is to refrain from purity spiraling or typical Internet flamewar horseshit. The goal of the right should be the attainment of power, both cultural and political. Anything that accomplishes that is good. 

My one big concern is military training. Let's face it -- no mannerbund is worth a damn unless its men have some kind of shared military background. Even Himmler, who was mocked as a failed chicken farmer, served in the Freikorps. Given the "woke" infection of the Western militaries, I understand why so many are loathe to serve. But, what replaces it? These skills are necessary. Should we consider PMCs? Volunteer training orgs? I welcome any suggestions.

Yes PMCs/Volunteering is the idea. The shitty sexual marketplace actually works in our favour here. Lot's of incels looking for a cause other than "no bitches", we can help them. And we'll definently have noticed that opportunity at least five or even ten years before the military truly realises the potential of millions of undateable (not in the sense they're bad, just that the modern woman wouldn't) men. The only person outside our "sphere" who has discussed this has probably been Lindybeige IIRC making an offhand comment wondering how China will deal with their 40 million "unmarriable men"

Purity spiraling is definitely our biggest weakness right now. Of course, to prevent that we need our own "Apostle's creed" that everyone in our sphere can agree to. Are the fourteen words enough?

I'd like to make a point on secret societies: I know the allure of fraternities like the Masons is there, you should not join, or at least progress beyond the third degree. At least here in Australia they have connections to many of the police forces across the country, whom I do not need to elobrate upon in regards to their hatred for life and liberty these past two years. Study them from afar and implement their systems, whether it be their organisation or their obscurantism, but do not join. Let them die on their own.

Anyways the rest of the post is great and on point. These past two years should be a wake up call for anyone that the time to act is now, in whatever capacity you have. We have enough essays, books, opinions, theory. What we don't have is action. Arguments divide men, work unites them, so let's all work together.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Guest
(03-13-2022, 03:49 PM)Trep Wrote:
(03-13-2022, 09:34 AM)BillyONare Wrote:
Quote: 2) Moldbug's political pressure groups and NGO idea is excellent. Not much more needs to be said on that front.

Link?

https://graymirror.substack.com/p/automa...r-vote?s=r

also, here is a copy of the paywalled "political amplifier" post, referenced in the post above: https://archive.ph/wpmoi
Guest
this is all so fun. as a proposal, the number of votes each person gets in our version of democratic centralism could be calculated by number_of_votes=1/(1-iq_15SD_percentile_rank/100)

a person with 100 IQ would receive ~2 votes, a person with 115 IQ would receive ~6 votes, a person with 130 IQ would receive ~44 votes, and so on

things start looking weird as IQ increases - a person with 145 IQ would receive ~741 votes, a person with 160 IQ would receive ~31560(!) votes, etc.
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