The Sharpening of the Will
carnotauro
My current obsession is the sharpening of the will: how can one assert full control over oneself, to always obey one's highest part and ignore one's lower parts? Is the will like a muscle which can be exercised and become stronger? Is it more like a reserve of energy which needs to recharge? I am not talking here about becoming accustomed to something, and therefore whittling away initial resistance from unfamiliarity (e.g. becoming used to lifting weights having never done so before) but about the general/global ability to force oneself to "obey oneself," so to speak.

If any of you have attempted to sharpen your own wills, what has been most effective for you? Physiological changes, like diet and supplementation? Simply doing and overcoming hard things on a habitual basis? Changes in mindset/motivation? Extreme experiences?
Francois
Over the course of my life I've found two different routes to improving willpower. The first is Aristotelian habituation, basically repeatedly practicing small acts of discipline until it becomes a habit and then something preferred. I started taking cold showers to the point where warm showers make me feel uncomfortably decadent, I have no idea whether it brings health or #HightT benefits but it means I start my day feeling like a hyperborean who's better than everyone else. I've fallen out of this habit but I used to say the rosary every night before bed and I think it just made me more in control over and conscious of myself over the course of the day, knowing that I would reflect with God by the end of the day. 

The other route was very directly by throwing myself into competitions. I'm naturally inclined towards reading books alone in my room all day, but, inspired by 2015 era BAP posts, I started throwing myself into weightlifting and athletic competition. Athletic competition, especially individual sports like fencing or tennis, are a great catalyst towards self-mastery. Unlike the inchoate motivation for taking cold showers or something, when you're signed up for a contest or a bout you very urgently need to dedicate yourself to hours of training and exercise because if you don't you run the risk of being eventually humiliated. Also, the feeling of victory in an individual athletic contest is profoundly intoxicating and inspires one to take up more demanding challenges to find an even greater 'high,' if you will.

I realize a lot of this is run-of-the-mill normalfaggotry but I thought I'd throw in my two cents. I don't think anyone who reads this forum is in danger of becoming a 'dumb jock' failed normie from getting involved in sports.

But really prayer is the simplest answer. Like Richard Williamson said on the BAPcast, just say the Rosary brah.
The_Author
For me it is like this: sometimes I try to "discipline myself" by engaging in an activity that I wouldn't normally engage in, and that I'm uncomfortable with. For example, I go to the market in a ridiculous costume, I go for a walk through a dangerous area at night, etc.

This never works. I am just as apprehensive of things afterwards as before.

What does work, though, is deciding that I am going to do exactly, and precisely, whatever I most want to do. As soon as I set out to do so, any discomfort, fear, or apprehension fades away or I am motivated enough to ignore it. It doesn't feel like something I need to practice, just something I can decide to do.

In general, I have always hated "training". If I want to learn something, I want to practice the exact thing that I want to do, not an approximate thing. Torturing myself by "discipline ordeals" is an approximate thing. Setting a goal and pursuing that goal is the exact thing that I want to do, literally.

Perhaps it is not possible for it to be otherwise. Even if you "want to sharpen the will", this is a spontaneous decision of the will. Skip the intermediate step of "sharpening the will", and just make a spontaneous decision of the will to do what you will.
anthony
(02-01-2023, 08:08 PM)The_Author Wrote: For me it is like this: sometimes I try to "discipline myself" by engaging in an activity that I wouldn't normally engage in, and that I'm uncomfortable with. For example, I go to the market in a ridiculous costume, I go for a walk through a dangerous area at night, etc.

This never works. I am just as apprehensive of things afterwards as before.

What does work, though, is deciding that I am going to do exactly, and precisely, whatever I most want to do. As soon as I set out to do so, any discomfort, fear, or apprehension fades away or I am motivated enough to ignore it. It doesn't feel like something I need to practice, just something I can decide to do.

In general, I have always hated "training". If I want to learn something, I want to practice the exact thing that I want to do, not an approximate thing. Torturing myself by "discipline ordeals" is an approximate thing. Setting a goal and pursuing that goal is the exact thing that I want to do, literally.

Perhaps it is not possible for it to be otherwise. Even if you "want to sharpen the will", this is a spontaneous decision of the will. Skip the intermediate step of "sharpening the will", and just make a spontaneous decision of the will to do what you will.

I was thinking of replying to this thread to say something more or less to the effect of this. Self-tyranny is for faggots. If you want potency you will never be better than what you were meant to be.
kirukuni
Everyone I've met who's interested in this or talks about maximizing this has been a faggot who's theoretically smart but doesn't do anything or read anything or know anything. They talk a lot about video games.

If you want to be a certain type of person, you should adopt the traits, habits, and social life of the people you want to be. There isn't much else. If there was an easy solution to this, parenting science wouldn't change its mind every few years.
Datacop
When I find myself lacking in fortitude I think about the Winking Tuxedo Pepe and just act how he would act in my situation
carnotauro
(02-01-2023, 08:08 PM)The_Author Wrote: For me it is like this: sometimes I try to "discipline myself" by engaging in an activity that I wouldn't normally engage in, and that I'm uncomfortable with. For example, I go to the market in a ridiculous costume, I go for a walk through a dangerous area at night, etc.

This never works. I am just as apprehensive of things afterwards as before.

What does work, though, is deciding that I am going to do exactly, and precisely, whatever I most want to do. As soon as I set out to do so, any discomfort, fear, or apprehension fades away or I am motivated enough to ignore it. It doesn't feel like something I need to practice, just something I can decide to do.

In general, I have always hated "training". If I want to learn something, I want to practice the exact thing that I want to do, not an approximate thing. Torturing myself by "discipline ordeals" is an approximate thing. Setting a goal and pursuing that goal is the exact thing that I want to do, literally.

Perhaps it is not possible for it to be otherwise. Even if you "want to sharpen the will", this is a spontaneous decision of the will. Skip the intermediate step of "sharpening the will", and just make a spontaneous decision of the will to do what you will.

This sounds promising. Now the question is: when you have a terrible challenge imposed on you, not through your own spontaneity, how do you get yourself in this mindset. The kind that makes you think, "at least one day I'll be dead so I don't have to deal with this." How do you get yourself to believe that you willed this yourself?

Nietzsche speaks of this in the chapter 'On Redemption' from the second part of Zarathustra--the power to look at the past and things outside your control as products of your will:

"To redeem those who lived in the past and to re-create all 'it was' into 'thus I willed it'--that alone should I call redemption. Will--that is the name of the liberator and joy-bringer; thus I taught you, my friends."

The next section is somewhat troubling:

"But now learn this too: the will itself is still a prisoner. Willing liberates; but what is it that puts even the liberator himself in fetters? 'It was'--that is the name of the will's gnashing of the teeth and most secret melancholy. Powerless against what has been done, he is an angry spectator of all that is past. The will cannot will backwards; and that he cannot break time and time's covetousness, that is the will's loneliest melancholy."

But Zarathustra's speech returns to a more vitalist tone:

"All 'it was' is a fragment, a riddle, a dreadful accident--until the creative will says to it, 'But thus I willed it.' Until the creative will says to it, 'But thus I will it; thus I shall will it.'"

I highly recommend reading the chapter in its entirety, as these are only glimpses of the ideas it contains.

Is this just a useful form of self-deception?
BillyONare
Quote:892. Whoever hasn't reached a competitive level of ability in a major, serious sport (i.e. stuff like swimming and kickboxing, not golf or ping-pong) hasn't really lived—and never will. He is incapable of even conceiving what it means to be alive. Just consider that the videogame aspies feel like gods when they perform a highly demanding feat in which they are barely moving a finger or two, and then extrapolate from that what it would feel like to have to move every single muscle of your body in perfect unison, under the risk of serious injury or even death no less, if something goes wrong—not merely losing the "high score". "Better than sex" doesn't even begin to cover it—and that's why sex barely even figures in my top ten of favorite things to do. And that's why for the subhumans sex is the best thing of all, and after that drugs and rock and roll; or eating, drinking, or smoking and so on—some type of quick and easy chemical or hallucinogenic stimulation that their brains need on a daily basis merely so as to feel alive, because as I have just explained they really aren't. They sit in their little cubicles day and night, and flood their brains with these chemical substances, or submerge them in fake visual and aural worlds, until at last they become "addicted" to them—as of course they would, since what else do they have to do all day long? And that's when the struggle begins, the never-ending struggle against "addiction": addiction to sex, to drugs, to rock and roll; or to eating or drinking or smoking, and so on—whereas a man who is engaged on a daily basis on a hardcore fucking sport simply does not have the luxury to get addicted to anything beyond his goal. When you have to get up in the morning and swim two or three miles you can't afford to neglect your diet and rest and mental balance and so on. If you don't sleep a full night's sleep the night before you will drown. If you don't eat a full balanced meal you'll get sick. It's called "failing adaption", and a few days of that in a row will reduce a colossus of a man to a wreck who needs to spend all day huddled under a blanket drinking camomile tea and avoiding thinking loud thoughts. Start swimming three miles a day and all your "addictions" will instantly vanish—or you will die. Meanwhile, the subhumans keep fighting their "addictions" without realizing how assbackwards this approach is. For if I were condemned to a chair all day long, I too would spend all day eating and drinking and smoking and jerking off; I wouldn't be "addicted" to anything, I'd just be bored! To take away my "addictions" from me at that point would not be helping me, it'd be cruel! But when the lifeform is expanding in perfect proportion in all directions—as the Overman of course always does—there is no such thing as "addiction"; or rather, there is "addiction" to everything in every direction and at all times; but these "addictions" self-regulate and keep each other in check precisely because the lifeform is expanding in a balanced manner in all directions, and hence imbalances ("addictions") have no chance of forming by definition, without him having to bother with the concept at all. Nietzsche: "To have to combat your instincts—that is the formula for decadence." What kind of life is that, when you spend half your time neurotically swatting away at your own urges as if you hate yourself?
It's the subhuman life, it is precisely the definition of decadence, a decadence to which they are condemned—as I will never tire of repeating—because they aren't human.

This is some of the best generic self help type advice I have read. Just swim 3 miles per day. Playing Chess has a weaker but similar effect. You don't get physically punished, but if your brain isn't working right, then you will rapidly lose ELO and feel angry and miserable. Basically an activity that you take seriously and will fail if you drink alcohol or stay up late or don't eat healthy. It also gives some purpose to the drudgery and repetition of life because even if work is not fulfilling you have a semi serious hobby that you are either making progress on or failing to make progress on which will make you feel bad and motivate you to get more serious about your lifestyle.

Also it's very freeing because GNC can't make you swim slower or make your muscles lift less weight or make you blunder in Chess. You have no limits.
The_Author
(02-04-2023, 01:42 PM)carnotauro Wrote: This sounds promising. Now the question is: when you have a terrible challenge imposed on you, not through your own spontaneity, how do you get yourself in this mindset. The kind that makes you think, "at least one day I'll be dead so I don't have to deal with this." How do you get yourself to believe that you willed this yourself?

Nietzsche speaks of this in the chapter 'On Redemption' from the second part of Zarathustra--the power to look at the past and things outside your control as products of your will:

"To redeem those who lived in the past and to re-create all 'it was' into 'thus I willed it'--that alone should I call redemption. Will--that is the name of the liberator and joy-bringer; thus I taught you, my friends."

It is not a useful form of self-deception, just self-deception. Zarathustra is a bunch of inane nonsense given meaning by academics. Do not emulate.

Regardless of the challenges, you always have some will or desire in the context of the situation. To be "in this mindset" you set out to follow the greatest desire in the context of whatever situation.
carnotauro
(02-04-2023, 09:33 PM)BillyONare Wrote:
Quote:892. Whoever hasn't reached a competitive level of ability in a major, serious sport (i.e. stuff like swimming and kickboxing, not golf or ping-pong) hasn't really lived—and never will. He is incapable of even conceiving what it means to be alive. Just consider that the videogame aspies feel like gods when they perform a highly demanding feat in which they are barely moving a finger or two, and then extrapolate from that what it would feel like to have to move every single muscle of your body in perfect unison, under the risk of serious injury or even death no less, if something goes wrong—not merely losing the "high score". "Better than sex" doesn't even begin to cover it—and that's why sex barely even figures in my top ten of favorite things to do. And that's why for the subhumans sex is the best thing of all, and after that drugs and rock and roll; or eating, drinking, or smoking and so on—some type of quick and easy chemical or hallucinogenic stimulation that their brains need on a daily basis merely so as to feel alive, because as I have just explained they really aren't. They sit in their little cubicles day and night, and flood their brains with these chemical substances, or submerge them in fake visual and aural worlds, until at last they become "addicted" to them—as of course they would, since what else do they have to do all day long? And that's when the struggle begins, the never-ending struggle against "addiction": addiction to sex, to drugs, to rock and roll; or to eating or drinking or smoking, and so on—whereas a man who is engaged on a daily basis on a hardcore fucking sport simply does not have the luxury to get addicted to anything beyond his goal. When you have to get up in the morning and swim two or three miles you can't afford to neglect your diet and rest and mental balance and so on. If you don't sleep a full night's sleep the night before you will drown. If you don't eat a full balanced meal you'll get sick. It's called "failing adaption", and a few days of that in a row will reduce a colossus of a man to a wreck who needs to spend all day huddled under a blanket drinking camomile tea and avoiding thinking loud thoughts. Start swimming three miles a day and all your "addictions" will instantly vanish—or you will die. Meanwhile, the subhumans keep fighting their "addictions" without realizing how assbackwards this approach is. For if I were condemned to a chair all day long, I too would spend all day eating and drinking and smoking and jerking off; I wouldn't be "addicted" to anything, I'd just be bored! To take away my "addictions" from me at that point would not be helping me, it'd be cruel! But when the lifeform is expanding in perfect proportion in all directions—as the Overman of course always does—there is no such thing as "addiction"; or rather, there is "addiction" to everything in every direction and at all times; but these "addictions" self-regulate and keep each other in check precisely because the lifeform is expanding in a balanced manner in all directions, and hence imbalances ("addictions") have no chance of forming by definition, without him having to bother with the concept at all. Nietzsche: "To have to combat your instincts—that is the formula for decadence." What kind of life is that, when you spend half your time neurotically swatting away at your own urges as if you hate yourself?
It's the subhuman life, it is precisely the definition of decadence, a decadence to which they are condemned—as I will never tire of repeating—because they aren't human.

This is some of the best generic self help type advice I have read. Just swim 3 miles per day. Playing Chess has a weaker but similar effect. You don't get physically punished, but if your brain isn't working right, then you will rapidly lose ELO and feel angry and miserable. Basically an activity that you take seriously and will fail if you drink alcohol or stay up late or don't eat healthy. It also gives some purpose to the drudgery and repetition of life because even if work is not fulfilling you have a semi serious hobby that you are either making progress on or failing to make progress on which will make you feel bad and motivate you to get more serious about your lifestyle.

Also it's very freeing because GNC can't make you swim slower or make your muscles lift less weight or make you blunder in Chess. You have no limits.

I think this is ultimately the key--to continually, almost habitually, push yourself to your limits--and then keep going. Running, weightlifting, etc.--the point is to get to the point where your body begs you, "please, no more"--and then override it and force it further.

(02-04-2023, 09:42 PM)The_Author Wrote: It is not a useful form of self-deception, just self-deception. Zarathustra is a bunch of inane nonsense given meaning by academics. Do not emulate.

Regardless of the challenges, you always have some will or desire in the context of the situation. To be "in this mindset" you set out to follow the greatest desire in the context of whatever situation.

Academics don't really get Zarathustra (or Nietzsche in general)--or at least they pretend not to because they want to be able to claim they teach Nietzsche without actually confronting his ideas. I recommend reading him yourself as professors and secondary literature aren't a substitute.
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