The True Cost of TND, TKD, etc.

[The Green Groyper]

There were moral spasms though. Alcoholism was a serious problem that I recall. Not to mention, after the war there was a culture of silence not glorification of the Einsatzgruppen and the SS. Followed by generations of guilt, including children confronting their own fathers. To give you a few sources, I've done a quick google search. 

Stone-Cold Killers or Drunk with Murder? Alcohol and Atrocity during the Holocaust | Holocaust and Genocide Studies | Oxford Academic (oup.com)

Himmler's diary(though the context is ambiguous) "finished for the rest of their lives as neurotics or brutes"

German Reserve Police Battalion 101 | Facing History & Ourselves

I could probably find more but I'm not in the mood to produce a dissertation.

You talk about TND as if its already an accepted ideal outside of a few dozen to few hundred malcontents on the internet. The Negro population is predicted to double if not quadruple by century's end, unless Woke/LGBT/Feminist shit cuts their birthrates it's possible I suppose). The overwhelming majority of the public would balk if you were to present your ideas openly-and not just the "working class" who might titter and nervously look away, but those running this system-in the military, state department, academia and so on. That is the educated White population-who would immediately either take you as an edgy ne'er do-well or a Nazi. Its fantastical nonsense. You act as if you are already in the carriage driving the horse, when the carriage is 500 miles from the station.

It is a remarkable credit to the German people that they recovered so well after the War, what with the devastation caused by Allied bombing, the staggering quantity of propaganda, unequaled outside of the Soviet Union, at the time, and the complete and utter loss of sovereignty. It's natural that some men will struggle to return to civilian life after conflict. Besides, I am not willing to trust Anglosphere scholarship on anything relating to former soldiers of the Reich.

The sixties pattern in Deutschland of (mostly) women going into hysterics about their fathers, was a local effect of a near global phenomenon.

I see that you repeatedly setup an extreme scenario, "you can only have TND if you want to use skin as carpet", "German soldiers were ruined men" which you embroider with elaborate descriptions or great lists of supposed evidence. There is no need either theoretically, or practically, to consider such perverted examples.

I am for the rough and tumble of life. It's the erotic underpinning of Mortal Life, the interplay between the Ideal and Reality.


I have been clear enough in my previous posts, that I am interested in the moral meaning and ramifications of TND, not how to bring it about.

Perhaps you care to say why it is a necessity that TND entail ruined men?

"It is a remarkable credit to the German people that they recovered so well after the War, what with the devastation caused by Allied bombing, the staggering quantity of propaganda, unequaled outside of the Soviet Union, at the time, and the complete and utter loss of sovereignty. It's natural that some men will struggle to return to civilian life after conflict. Besides, I am not willing to trust Anglosphere scholarship on anything relating to former soldiers of the Reich."

In other words, you have no refutation and are incurious and stone headed to boot.

"The sixties pattern in Deutschland of (mostly) women going into hysterics about their fathers, was a local effect of a near global phenomenon.

I see that you repeatedly setup an extreme scenario, "you can only have TND if you want to use skin as carpet", "German soldiers were ruined men" which you embroider with elaborate descriptions or great lists of supposed evidence. There is no need either theoretically, or practically, to consider such perverted examples."

You suggested ICBMs which would have much wider ranging consequences on everything from ecology to agriculture as well as "herding into camps" what precisely is your definition of "perversion"? -perhaps you don't have the stomach to imagine the actual ugliness the destruction of a race really entails? Are you an actual historian of Post War Germany? If you're not, then don't expect me or anyone to respect your claims about "hysterical women" or whatever without going through the courtesy of providing a source for that claim. 

"I am for the rough and tumble of life. It's the erotic underpinning of Mortal Life, the interplay between the Ideal and Reality." A long-winded way of saying nothing. You want adventure, sex and struggle, which is entirely irrelevant to the conversation at hand. The second part of your second sentence is meaningless drivel. 

"I have been clear enough in my previous posts, that I am interested in the moral meaning and ramifications of TND, not how to bring it about." There are a lot of moral implications-from providing living space to White populations, to giving opportunities for better ecological management. Well wait those don't have anything to do with morality at all-politics, empire, planetary management, and racial development. We can discuss other moral implications beyond ruined men, if you wish. 

What about the future? What if Whites a century or a thousand years from now condemn us? Is that something you will consider? How will we sell the White masses on TND? On what moral ground will Aryan armies march to Africa? You may march for glory, for pleasure and for your ambition but you will not be alone. 

On the actual moral question not ancillary ones what are you looking for? TND is justifiable under two main moral premises-ethnocentric maximalism. That is ensuring Whites get access to everything with zero competition, or the basis that blacks should be exterminated for their failings, degeneracies, and so forth. I would presume you lean more towards the former. And on that score there is no discussion worth having-either one agrees or one does not. 

Members of the Einsatzgruppen did have problems, from alcoholism to occasional desertion. Even if you argue this was or is marginal-Whites are a moralistic race and the guilt of our actions will be a burden on their psyches. At least for a few generations. 

On a strictly arithmetical basis-White numbers go up, non Whites drop to zero. I would presume you are in favor of that. So again I have to ask what exactly are you interested in discussing?

[Guest]

What about the future? What if Whites a century or a thousand years from now condemn us? Is that something you will consider? How will we sell the White masses on TND? On what moral ground will Aryan armies march to Africa? You may march for glory, for pleasure and for your ambition but you will not be alone.

What if there are libatrds in the future whom will tear down my epic statues? “Well for that specific scenario I devised a contingency plan. I will leave the funds for a private army, which will be managed by my descendants, to protect my statues.” Again, you’er a retard. Why ask an irrelevant question like that then a strategy question of how TND should be pulled off. What does it matter on what I can’t control or act upon. There are things that can be done in this life towards certain goals, and goals which are silly to even consider. Also you again haven’t learned from our last conversation and are attributing socialized behaviors to innate white behaviors. But just to have an answer for what measure we could take to ensure future libtardization doesn’t happen an interest in pedagogy should be taken. The censorship of certain books and other types of media will help to stifle any counter moralities. As long as we lay down certain censorship practices and understand pedagogy to a degree this will not be a problem, but for an actual in-depth answer: that would take too long so I hope you will be understanding.

Now, how will we sell the masses on TND? Yes, this is something very important to consider. First we have to understand what the current situation is like. A libtard like you maybe unaware but there have been various mainstream white nationalist and other adjacent contemporary movements in recent years due to the political turmoil of current day America. Many Americans are waking up to racial consciousness and it shows no signs of abating. There is a political divided in America based on the categories of White and anti-white. All we need to do is to keep riding the current political wave and advance lesser movements which will inevitable lead to a TND type of situation. Getting people to accept TND is about setting up the prerequisites and then somehow taking power. The prerequisites are: parallel white communities inculcated with racial consciousness, and have enough TND disposed academics ready to back up the question. Do you know how many philosophers covered the JQ? A lot. If we make these our desideratum then TND will follow naturally. On how to take power: there is already a thread on that.

On what moral grounds will we match into Africa? Well to do that TND will already have to be achieved at home, so just providing enough economic incentives should be enough for legislator. Not to mention the private firms and militaries that will work on there own towards that end once they are no longer being suppressed. So I guess we would have to undermine the UN somehow. But again, if the EU doesn’t pull off some kind of TND then we won’t have to worry about them anyway. Without the spirit to stop decline they would not have the might to face us.

[Guest]

"It is a remarkable credit to the German people that they recovered so well after the War, what with the devastation caused by Allied bombing, the staggering quantity of propaganda, unequaled outside of the Soviet Union, at the time, and the complete and utter loss of sovereignty. It's natural that some men will struggle to return to civilian life after conflict. Besides, I am not willing to trust Anglosphere scholarship on anything relating to former soldiers of the Reich."

In other words, you have no refutation and are incurious and stone headed to boot.

I’m pretty sure his main point, which you were too thick to understand, was that maybe those veterans had more pressing matters to despair about. I mean do you really think they would be able to despair if the Third Reich was never disposed of and was hailing them as hero? There’s no way they could have been upset about how there nation was essentially destroyed, who would feel bad about that. But killing Jewish people? Now that’s a reason to drink.

[Guest]

You suggested ICBMs which would have much wider ranging consequences on everything from ecology to agriculture as well as "herding into camps" what precisely is your definition of "perversion"? -perhaps you don't have the stomach to imagine the actual ugliness the destruction of a race really entails?

Again, too stoopid to get his point. Achieving objectives through rational means is different than self serving sadism. Is it necessary to skin a nigger and turn its hide into a Lampshade after killing it? No. We’re just trying to kill them, not torture them with the goal of maximizing suffering. No army commander is going to force his troops to discard their guns and only use rusty pliers to kill nigger. Stop thinking of this as something other then a war. Again, you still think TND is just edgy internet sadism by white teens. It’s something produced by historic processes and is rational.

[The Green Groyper]

You suggested ICBMs which would have much wider ranging consequences on everything from ecology to agriculture as well as "herding into camps" what precisely is your definition of "perversion"? -perhaps you don't have the stomach to imagine the actual ugliness the destruction of a race really entails?

Again, too stoopid to get his point. Achieving objectives through rational means is different than self serving sadism. Is it necessary to skin a nigger and turn its hide into a Lampshade after killing it? No. We’re just trying to kill them, not torture them with the goal of maximizing suffering. No army commander is going to force his troops to discard their guns and only use rusty pliers to kill nigger. Stop thinking of this as something other then a war. Again, you still think TND is just edgy internet sadism by white teens. It’s something produced by historic processes and is rational.

It is internet edgy sadism by White teens though. Whether its part of a broader historical process and a rational choice doesn't change that. 

Maybe in a generation or two when Whites are an actual minority, political consciousness will shift in this direction. 

I don't have a problem with TND by itself, I just find discussion of it as if we're in the driver's seat stupid and counterproductive.

Still also not sure why he chose the word "perverse". Unless you think sadism is somehow uniquely perverse when killing itself is not. Whether you skin a nigger with carving knives or put bullets in their brain stems, guaranteeing quick and painless deaths-their dead, what's the difference? Why get so upset over a little flaying?

[Guest]

Still also not sure why he chose the word "perverse". Unless you think sadism is somehow uniquely perverse when killing itself is not. Whether you skin a nigger with carving knives or put bullets in their brain stems, guaranteeing quick and painless deaths-their dead, what's the difference? Why get so upset over a little flaying?

“contrary to the accepted or expected standard or practice.“ If you have a task with a goal, that goal should be the only reason for participating in that task. Someone who takes a task and disregards the goal for another goal is perverse. Perverting TND(literally means total nigger death) to just sadism without the actual goal of getting rid of all nigger is what he means. You’re perverting what TND is.

[Guest]

It is internet edgy sadism by White teens though. Whether its part of a broader historical process and a rational choice doesn't change that.

I don't have a problem with TND by itself, I just find discussion of it as if we're in the driver's seat stupid and counterproductive.

If only you’d be truthful and admit that your a bleeding heart liberal. You claim that TND is just “edgy White teens” but object against all conversations on the grounds of counterproductive like you’re actually dedicated to TND(which you aren’t). Obviously you had a problem with it by itself and not just White teens saying TND after listing the ways they would torture a nigger. If that wasn’t the case you wouldn’t have started with your whole “99.99% percent of whites are too docile for that kind of violence, stop dreaming chud!” If you really felt that TND was just White teen edginess you wouldn’t feel the need to try and disabuse the concept of TND and it’s validity. Instead you would just target White teen edginess. Obviously the two are not the same(as one is a concept and the other a behavior) but then again maybe I’m depicting you as more intelligent then you really are.

Anyway, scurry back to your discord server.

[Guest]

This character is by far the least intelligence poster in this site’s history. Only a few posts ago he was speculating about the post-TND consequences. Not even cognizant.

>t. two-digit IQ ESL known variously as Striped_Pyjama_Boy_Nietzschean/Jack D. Otter/Ashtar Sheran Groyper/chudipedia/@otterjak/@lutrabund

“DISCORD!!! Help me! The chuds are brain mogging me.” 

For anyone not in the know: the green libtard has been running back to his discord server(which is dedicated to a-logging the amarnasphere) to get back up to defeat me, a lone chud. But I single handedly defeated them all in Psionic combat. Why? Because chuds have an IQ advantage when compared to libtards. We come to our conclusions through facts and logic, while libtards on the other hand determine their whole belief system off a video of a nigger crying they watched when they were seven. Not only are we smarter, but also bigger, stronger, and meaner. When you see me, a six-foot-four 220lb jacked black belt in Brazilian jujitsu chud, walking towards you, you walk the other way. We chuds were born to exterminate inferior species. We are the seed that will cover the entire world.

Anyway, I’m gonna go masterbait to my physique in a mirror, ciao.

I don't use discord. You are a brown ESL.

[Guest]

I have little to offer on the topic as a whole, but I see that above someone said: "Whites are a moralistic race." This is a very strange formulation. There is no such thing as a moralistic race. A moralistic race is, by definition, amoral. Aside from that, we have great lengths of history to see how silly the formulation is. It is very easy to forget, glorify, alter, anything that goes against one's "moral compass" if they even have one.

I suppose this sort of thing is just an extension of decades of media of "war is tragedy", insert sad composition titled "War" here. You can observe the very funny "my grandpa killed Nazis" type posting and so on to see another refutation of such a strange formulation.

As for alcoholism etc. It is very easy to become what is called an "alcoholic", especially if one is bored. It applies to any drug or vice, which is why such states are so common today.

[Handi]

I don't have a problem with TND by itself, I just find discussion of it as if we're in the driver's seat stupid and counterproductive.

The Left has always talked of "the revolution" as a certainty. Obama believes himself on the "right side of history." It's intelligent of them to do so; we should do the same. Why do you want us to lose?

Leftism is politicized entropy. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics states: "Reality has a liberal bias."

They have the luxury of assuming themselves to win by default, because they're bottom feeders that fill their bellies with death—and all things tend to die eventually. They're only able to wait on time to do the heavy work for them because of the fact that they worship decay in the first place. 

If you want to build something, you're going to have a harder time of it than the people leeching off its destruction. You do have to envision your goals as possible, but figuring out how to build something that works is a much narrower path and much less forgiving of error. You don't get to persist in a delusion that such things are inevitable. For example, you're not going to succeed by making wildly unrealistic assumptions of what other people are willing to do for your cause.

[BillyONare]

^rare quality guest post

[The Green Groyper]

I don't have a problem with TND by itself, I just find discussion of it as if we're in the driver's seat stupid and counterproductive.

The Left has always talked of "the revolution" as a certainty. Obama believes himself on the "right side of history." It's intelligent of them to do so; we should do the same. Why do you want us to lose?

I can see the effect of the Anglosphere education you respect so much. Whatever knowledge of philosophy you do have, must come from some Anglo "philosopher" who thinks philosophy began with G. E. Moore's "Here is one hand".

Far too generous in this paragraph.

Revolutions take a lot of work, they do not emerge in a vacuum as I'm sure you know. We are nowhere close to one. By the early 20th century, the Bolsheviki already had a lot of the infrastructure in place, as well as the internal discipline, foresight, and leadership. We do not, not anywhere close.

Your tirades against anglosphere education come off as driven by a sense of inferiority and anxiety. So you'll have to do better.

"It is a remarkable credit to the German people that they recovered so well after the War, what with the devastation caused by Allied bombing, the staggering quantity of propaganda, unequaled outside of the Soviet Union, at the time, and the complete and utter loss of sovereignty. It's natural that some men will struggle to return to civilian life after conflict. Besides, I am not willing to trust Anglosphere scholarship on anything relating to former soldiers of the Reich."

In other words, you have no refutation and are incurious and stone headed to boot.

I’m pretty sure his main point, which you were too thick to understand, was that maybe those veterans had more pressing matters to despair about. I mean do you really think they would be able to despair if the Third Reich was never disposed of and was hailing them as hero? There’s no way they could have been upset about how there nation was essentially destroyed, who would feel bad about that. But killing Jewish people? Now that’s a reason to drink.

He provided no refutation whatsoever, beyond "I don't like this".

"What if there are libatrds in the future whom will tear down my epic statues? “Well for that specific scenario I devised a contingency plan. I will leave the funds for a private army, which will be managed by my descendants, to protect my statues.” Again, you’er a retard. Why ask an irrelevant question like that then a strategy question of how TND should be pulled off. What does it matter on what I can’t control or act upon. There are things that can be done in this life towards certain goals, and goals which are silly to even consider. Also you again haven’t learned from our last conversation and are attributing socialized behaviors to innate white behaviors. But just to have an answer for what measure we could take to ensure future libtardization doesn’t happen an interest in pedagogy should be taken. The censorship of certain books and other types of media will help to stifle any counter moralities. As long as we lay down certain censorship practices and understand pedagogy to a degree this will not be a problem, but for an actual in-depth answer: that would take too long so I hope you will be understanding."

This is not a thread about carrying it out though. Also thank you for a serious reply. There's frankly no guarantee any of what you're saying will work. Not over a long enough time period, but that makes the matter moot.

It is internet edgy sadism by White teens though. Whether its part of a broader historical process and a rational choice doesn't change that.

I don't have a problem with TND by itself, I just find discussion of it as if we're in the driver's seat stupid and counterproductive.

If only you’d be truthful and admit that your a bleeding heart liberal. You claim that TND is just “edgy White teens” but object against all conversations on the grounds of counterproductive like you’re actually dedicated to TND(which you aren’t). Obviously you had a problem with it by itself and not just White teens saying TND after listing the ways they would torture a nigger. If that wasn’t the case you wouldn’t have started with your whole “99.99% percent of whites are too docile for that kind of violence, stop dreaming chud!” If you really felt that TND was just White teen edginess you wouldn’t  feel the need to try and disabuse the concept of TND and it’s validity. Instead you would just target White teen edginess. Obviously the two are not the same(as one is a concept and the other a behavior) but then again maybe I’m depicting you as more intelligent then you really are.

Anyway, scurry back to your discord server.

Thank you for proving that you are in fact a retard and to be kind I suggest you consider self sterilization. You might also want to find your nearest can of rat poison and drink it.

"The reason I made little comment on your links is that I have always found the tactic of replying to an argument which relies on a few, obvious, commonly accepted premises, with a list of links taken off Google, to be both lazy and nerdy. It's not in the spirit of things. I think I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but otherwise I find such tactics redolent of a lackluster mind."

I would boast about my academic credentials(a lot of which included research work) but you'd complain again about "anglosphere education". I would presume neither of us has a library of primary and reliable secondary sources on hand. So using google is lazy yes, but without it there is no way to have a productive discussion about concrete historical claims. 

I don't have a problem with TND by itself, I just find discussion of it as if we're in the driver's seat stupid and counterproductive.

The Left has always talked of "the revolution" as a certainty. Obama believes himself on the "right side of history." It's intelligent of them to do so; we should do the same. Why do you want us to lose?

Leftism is politicized entropy. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics states: "Reality has a liberal bias."

They have the luxury of assuming themselves to win by default, because they're bottom feeders that fill their bellies with death—and all things tend to die eventually. They're only able to wait on time to do the heavy work for them because of the fact that they worship decay in the first place. 

If you want to build something, you're going to have a harder time of it than the people leeching off its destruction. You do have to envision your goals as possible, but figuring out how to build something that works is a much narrower path and much less forgiving of error. You don't get to persist in a delusion that such things are inevitable. For example, you're not going to succeed by making wildly unrealistic assumptions of what other people are willing to do for your cause.

I'm glad there's a man here with an inkling of sense. And this thread isn't entirely composed of retards and impotents daydreaming. 

[The Green Groyper]

I'm honestly done with this discussion, its going nowhere.

"If you really do have credentials from a history department, then in any sensible world they would be withdrawn immediately. Please go and read any history of Communism or Socialism, you will find that before the First World War, the Left believed that "the revolution" was most likely to take place in Germany, where socialists and social democrats, backed by a strong proletariat, had some degree of power in the state, and thus room to operate, while Russia was a highly repressive despotism with no proletariat worth speaking of."

There had been an organized anti Czarist/leftist movement in Russia for decades, recall a Czar and a prime minister were assassinated. The Narodniks had been agitating against the Czar since the 1860s. The Bolsheviki were formed as a party in 1912, with their parent party formed in 1898. Famously Stalin as well as other bolsheviks were involved in train robberies and other violent attacks before the first world war.

In Germany Bismarck gave space for the social democrats to operate, while suppressing actual revolutionary activity.

We do not have near the organization or preparation.

"Would it be that you are looking for someone to boast of planning what could be, a very stupid action?

How's the air con in that DC office?"
I can only wish I was making a federal agent's salary. 

You and your supporters on this thread have exhausted my patience.

I am finished here.

[Trevor Bauer]

Blacks are very easy to subjugate and manage if you are actually in power, as shown in the US prior to the wars. However, if Jews are allowed to participate in government, or rule vicariously by wielding capital, then all is in peril, as shown today. We can live with a minority of blacks, but we can't live with Jewish political equals. I have no interest in politics that doesn't recognize this.

Lately, posters are putting up this false dialectic where you either support first worldist causes in the middle east, and by default everything ZOG now does, or you invite the third-worldist rape 'n revenge narratives back on yourself. This is so disingenuous, I'd like to destroy and ban everyone pushing this BAP crap, but alas I cannot. The rape 'n revenge narratives contrived against us are, of course, entirely Jewish, so a correct position would be in some sense anti-Jew and anti-brown at the same time.

[The Green Groyper]

"How about we resume on a different or related topic, in a new thread with a more relaxed tone? Your confidence in speaking of historical matters, leads me to believe that you might have interesting observations or ideas to impart, which have been lost in the to and fro."

Perhaps later, when I'm better disposed.