Troll's Remorse
#1
In the Thread Ideas page, @PIGSAW had mentioned Troll's Remorse as something potentially worth discussing. I feel the need to post, so here you go.

Troll's Remorse, as many reading this will know, is a distinct concept in Wired Anthropology. This is where the Troll — someone considered to be "mean spirited", "belligerent", or perennially lambasting other people in various ways — is transformed, be it by IRL social pressures, the attempts of other online groups (e.g., such groups might say "stop being edgy, it's not 2014 anymore"), or some unrelated personal transformation. Whatever cause there is, Troll's Remorse begins to shape the Troll's online activity, devoting themselves to a feeling of guilt, regret, and spiteful attitudes against those who remind him of his previous online identity. If you could consider the posts of a Troll to be minor stimuli, and the rest of the Internet abundant stimuli, then Troll's Remorse could be compared to Pavlov's paradoxical response (not to be confused with the ultraparadoxical phase), where the Troll receives an extreme negative response by the person with Troll's Remorse, and everything else on the Internet receives nothing. The person who has Troll's Remorse has unsure relations with his past, where he might attempt to mimic the younger version of himself when combating with those who are deemed to be "Trolls", but he will also detest his younger self for having believed in "objectionable views".

As was said in the Norwood Vocal Tics thread by Moyai:
Quote:I believe it stems out of "troll's remorse", if you will. These people clearly enjoy their time spent online (even if they feign discontent, they still rack up enough hours to understand what "Nazi incel gamer chud" means) and away from normalfaggotry but feel guilt due to the nigger in their head telling them they shouldn't be, so they desperately attack some group they perceive as more online to reaffirm their normalfaggotry (which is unrecoverable anyways).


I will prevent myself from speaking more on this so that I don't exhaust the subject. Anything which best documents or analyzes Troll's Remorse is welcome here. This can range from particular examples to your understanding of the concept.
#2
A facet of this type of remorse is the alienation. Guys going "woah, I would not be accepted by normgroids if they knew everything about me- therefore every interaction I have with them is fraudulent, inauthentic" It is interesting that the guilt is over actions that they did in an otherwise typically private low-stakes venue.

I wonder if society or at least a layer of the woke facade would collapse if a deliberate effort were made to ask in-person the sort of questions people avoid asking and publish the stuttering embarrassed videos. Seems like a thing zoomers would be down with. "Have you ever masturbated to someone you know?" "Have you ever consumed porn with sadistic/nonconsensual theme?" "Do you have sexual attraction to your mother?" "Have you ever considered committing murder? rape?" "For that matter, ever utilized the n-word as a slur?"
#3
(09-06-2023, 02:26 PM)Guest Wrote: A facet of this type of remorse is the alienation. Guys going "woah, I would not be accepted by normgroids if they knew everything about me- therefore every interaction I have with them is fraudulent, inauthentic" It is interesting that the guilt is over actions that they did in an otherwise typically private low-stakes venue.

Part of this estrangement is (in my opinion) from the deeply personal interaction one used to have with being online. Now certain key terms are used in real life to such an extent that it reveals people's mass involvement. Could /r9k/ users in 2014 ever imagine that the word "incel" would be used so frequently? Further, could they imagine that being an incel even mattered that much? Now, it could be that the Millennial feels Troll's Remorse the most because he is the one that's used the Internet the longest, but consider how the Millennial had to straddle between knowing things that were pretty much arcane to the masses, while also indulging in the assembly line of pop culture. It would be an inherently isolating experience, which is still somewhat true today if you believe Hitler Did Nothing Wrong. Their split involvement creates an always looming possibility, where they might have to make one choice: total involvement in the pop culture assembly line or becoming "too online". The people who experienced Troll's Remorse chose the former, and they regret their decision deep down, because they're still online AND everything points to the trend of pop culture dying. Normalfaggotry will cease to exist, and they are the ones who inherit the relic of it. They speak of normal in a way that implies its death. "Can't people just be normal?", a plea for a previous state of things.

Quote:I wonder if society or at least a layer of the woke facade would collapse if a deliberate effort were made to ask in-person the sort of questions people avoid asking and publish the stuttering embarrassed videos. Seems like a thing zoomers would be down with. "Have you ever masturbated to someone you know?" "Have you ever consumed porn with sadistic/nonconsensual theme?" "Do you have sexual attraction to your mother?" "Have you ever considered committing murder? rape?" "For that matter, ever utilized the n-word as a slur?"

I don't know if that would really be successful as a venture, but I could see that happening as a kind of Surveillance Camera Man spin on street interviews. Each person now is already under the invasive microscope that was first implied by SurveillanceCameraMan's videos ("I'm just making a video"), except nowadays all of the questions are centered around normgroid music tastes and sex habits. This in some ways facilitates normie sadism, where anyone who falls outside of standard appearance and standardized taste will be ridiculed in the comment sections. I do not know if asking these questions would kick them out of that mindset.
#4
My interpretation is that Troll's Remorse is usually precipitated by a person receiving an increased exposure to progressive ideology, and submitting rather than wielding the social power necessary to reject it. During their "troll" years they were comparatively insulated from progressivism and felt comfortable to mock it from a safe distance. If friends and family start to turn, if their online communities gradually turn, it can hit closer to home and produce reactions like this: (iDubbbz video). Examples like this always make me wonder about the conversations that were being had behind the scenes.

The case of an e-celeb experiencing Troll's Remorse is particularly pathetic: they are accustomed to receiving online attention, so you can tell the coercive pressure is coming from a closer connection. These people have large fanbases who often admire them for their outspoken and authentic persona, yet they would betray all of this for a small amount of social acceptability within their peer group. I do not condone submission to a harmful ideology, but I can at least see how an ordinary person could crumble if they get a new job, a girlfriend, make new friends that coerce them to disavow views they had when they were younger. E-celebs however are uniquely positioned to believe whatever they want, to go their own way and still have friends and popularity, yet many childishly fall victim to social intimidation.
#5
(09-07-2023, 05:57 PM)Mason Hall-McCullough Wrote: My interpretation is that Troll's Remorse is usually precipitated by a person receiving an increased exposure to progressive ideology, and submitting rather than wielding the social power necessary to reject it. During their "troll" years they were comparatively insulated from progressivism and felt comfortable to mock it from a safe distance. If friends and family start to turn, if their online communities gradually turn, it can hit closer to home and produce reactions like this: (iDubbbz video). Examples like this always make me wonder about the conversations that were being had behind the scenes.

The case of an e-celeb experiencing Troll's Remorse is particularly pathetic: they are accustomed to receiving online attention, so you can tell the coercive pressure is coming from a closer connection. These people have large fanbases who often admire them for their outspoken and authentic persona, yet they would betray all of this for a small amount of social acceptability within their peer group. I do not condone submission to a harmful ideology, but I can at least see how an ordinary person could crumble if they get a new job, a girlfriend, make new friends that coerce them to disavow views they had when they were younger. E-celebs however are uniquely positioned to believe whatever they want, to go their own way and still have friends and popularity, yet many childishly fall victim to social intimidation.
I consider the expression of Troll's Remorse in the e-celeb to be distinct from more regular users, but the way in which it manifests in the e-celeb is fairly important. The social power that an e-celeb has in his rise of popularity is never much acknowledged by them; they still find themselves restricted in certain ways of expression, a psyche that's bound to capitulation (which explains why they first reached their position, following the algorithm and seeking to change once it becomes hostile to their original posts). The form of YouTube now creates a potential for endless apologies and groveling, also creating a short list of hanger-ons to attack them in response. There were hints of this even in the early days, where "RE: [original video title]" were once popular. Those reaction video titles have disappeared, but the impulse remains. Because the site has been democratized by a vastly increased number of users, the impulse has been fulfilled only in a way to belittle the competitor, or actually believing that they made a fault. It generates a need for nameless characters to rise and fall, instituting new ones to follow the same pattern. If the admiration of the public isn't tightly controlled, then a reason will be found. In my opinion this is a very gay development.

I'm incredibly averse to talking about e-celeb drama, but I feel obliged now. iDubbbz is a weird one since this apology was likely coerced by his OnlyFans wife, rather than the public. In his case, I don't even believe the public ever cared: he fits the bill of the online groveler more than the "Troll" type, most of these videos being pretty conventional beyond the rare Nigger Word. He is a React YouTuber who caught the attention of an audience starving for it, little different from someone like LeafyIsHere — low hanging fruit. Anyways, his career is mostly a fluke, which is why when you look at his posting frequency, there's a difference in output between 2014-2017 and everything afterwards. The videos that are in question today have been deleted but were, if I remember correctly, far more popular than any of his other videos. Since he never exploited this popularity for further gain (as others in his circle did, with the exception of H3H3 who is enduring his own special hell), he forced himself into a limbo where only half of his popular viewership remained. Attempting to self-flagellate before the public makes little sense because the demand for him is no longer there. Enough to have a comforting life for a good while, but not enough to force himself into controversy. He has almost no reason to do an apology video, whatever he may feel; it only hurts him in the end.
#6
(09-08-2023, 05:43 PM)JohnTrent Wrote: The social power that an e-celeb has in his rise of popularity is never much acknowledged by them; they still find themselves restricted in certain ways of expression, a psyche that's bound to capitulation (which explains why they first reached their position, following the algorithm and seeking to change once it becomes hostile to their original posts).

Good point, the type of person who becomes an e-celeb in the first place will tend to be a social striver always dissatisfied with their current status and inclined to follow trends. So perhaps it should be less surprising that they end up with Troll's Remorse, not more.

Quote:It generates a need for nameless characters to rise and fall, instituting new ones to follow the same pattern. If the admiration of the public isn't tightly controlled, then a reason will be found. In my opinion this is a very gay development.

Yes, it seems difficult to harness this chaotic force of online attention productively. It loves to subvert anything indiscriminately in an endless cycle, and the people who are able to harness it tend to be self-interested above all else. I saw a clip of Fuentes today where he endorsed Chinese invasion of the US.
#7
The main cause I’d say is how Real Life is organized. Late teens & early 20s can be lived in relative isolation, or one can generally find like-minded peers. Time is available and most social interactions are low-stakes. In that setting being a troll of any kind, provided one has a drive towards pranking, isn’t too difficult and there’s no reason for remorse to appear at that point at all. Nevertheless, as one enters the Real World and starts working, it all changes: peers, who seek their own advancement, will try to crush you as soon as they see any shadow of individuality in you, your attempts at finding a gf will make you put on a mask of vaguely acceptable politics, your work will consume your time and reduce the hours where you’re not wearing a mask to almost nil, and if you do find a gf (who’s not autistic, which is nature’s highest blessing) the game’s up and you’re under control 24/7.

However, the troll's change of mind isn't sudden because it isn't even willed, there’s no falling off a horse to Damascus either, there’s no moment of insight, rather one gives up the time where one is true to oneself, one hour at the time, until none are left, and goes on. But the need to be online is still there, maybe the last remnant of one's past self, so as a rationalization Troll's Remorse appears. First as a way to keep being online, gradually even from troll to it's so over troll to TR, but second as a perpetual incantation to ward off regret and sadness. Not surprising then that what most of them do is to tell others not to be like they were, to be normal, to accept a life like the one they have. Constant reinforcement is necessary, it's not you they're trying to convince.

Last, one must not confound remorseful trolls with rabid libs. Think Taleb, Nabokov, Rushide. Think high verbal-tilt strivers, fantasizing about what awful things the Might of the Rainbow Empire will do to (you). Such people have a sadistic hatred of trolls because they’re the one outlet for their rhetoric spite, maybe also because they get to be reaffirmed in their status, and get to be truthful even if very narrowly for once. But anyway the driver is just sadism, and there never was a point where they were any different.

PS I'm not othering myself, I just can't register.
#8
(09-09-2023, 04:48 AM)Numantine Wrote: PS I'm not othering myself, I just can't register.

Sorry about that. You'll be able to in a few days.
#9
Once you think about it, this is probably the most important/strategic culture thread on the site. If you prevent troll's remorse in say 20% of potential cases, you harvest many souls for chud valhalla. Reversing the condition in even 1% of cases might be even more valuable if biased towards those with somewhat-higher IQ because they may have accidentally infiltrated the enemy apparatus while earnestly true believers.

I do not completely understand why I am not a patient of the Troll's Remorse.

"However, the troll's change of mind isn't sudden because it isn't even willed, there’s no falling off a horse to Damascus either, there’s no moment of insight, rather one gives up the time where one is true to oneself, one hour at the time, until none are left, and goes on."

This strikes true. I've done this before- boy, I need friends, oops, fell in with some semi-woke kids... guess I'll just be nice and hope nobody mentions my prior chudtivity to them. It isn't being true to oneself, and it seemed like almost everyone in said group was doing this in some form or another even letting the mask slip a little and all that happens is nobody mentions it. In hindsight, I think they knew I was a chud- or "edgelord". I should mention that being a "cool progressive" kid is different that being a middle aged progressive harpy. For one, it isn't like you are gonna tell your female peers of your own age that dating a guy five years older is le heckin statutory rape.

"Nevertheless, as one enters the Real World and starts working, it all changes: peers, who seek their own advancement, will try to crush you as soon as they see any shadow of individuality in you, your attempts at finding a gf will make you put on a mask of vaguely acceptable politics, your work will consume your time and reduce the hours where you’re not wearing a mask to almost nil, and if you do find a gf (who’s not autistic, which is nature’s highest blessing) the game’s up and you’re under control 24/7."

I believe that being part of close-knit internet/IRL groups suppresses the ability to self-reflect. This can reinforce chudness for a while because you aren't going to be thinking "wait, that girl I'm dating has a very gay retarded brother, I shouldn't laugh..." when you are roaring with the boys. It seems like it inevitably fails because you haven't been sober while constructing your chud epistemology.

Everyone has time alone, where they can ponder on the socially dis/integrated aspect of their chudiness. If you research stuff on your own because you are bored that will be different, because you take the time to think "huh, does this convince me that the holocaust didn't happen? How much am I depending on that other thing I read, how certain am I of its accuracy? How much does what I truly believe actually depend on these details?" leaving you no real avenue to later dismiss your conclusions and self-realizations as a mere shoddily constructed chain of evidence. I have had the blessing of intermittent isolation.

"Not surprising then that what most of them do is to tell others not to be like they were, to be normal, to accept a life like the one they have."

I wouldn't be surprised if a another great insulating factor is "narcissism". What do the opinions of others matter once you have had a vision that feels like a new sensation in its richness, like a new color? It is easy to believe that I chose not to be a (like all, failing) normie because I knew on some level I was destined for something higher. Once I could unabashedly admit that to myself most of my neurosis melted away. Trust and know yourself above all.

RE: algorithm blame
It is possible that the algorithm mostly acts as a inertial effect. The algorithm isn't convinced, because it predicts society won't be convinced in most cases- and it aims to maximize engagement and ad revenue in every case, hence it lends you no cases to convince. If this is the case, the algorithm layer might be permeable if it can be tricked into thinking that the content is very convincing/engaging for at least a subset of viewership. On the other hand, we know that platforms like twitter had non-algorithm admin interfaces for large scale social manipulation and they might just swat any truly heretical content at their leisure.

"I saw a clip of Fuentes today where he endorsed Chinese invasion of the US."

the lindy effect is killing us. imagine that he's going to be relevant for another half decade. with bs like this sticking to him.
#10
I find a certain aspect of this interesting. If the Remorseful Troll was first interested in being edgy and contrarian for the sake of social expediency, they have only naturally rolled over into the mirror-image of their previous persona as their milieu has changed. They have unconsciously flopped from one side of a dialectic to the other. Before they were the edgy offensive internet guy (though if seriously pressed on their views they'd likely insist they are exaggerating or joking), now they are its inversion, the morally serious scolding adult who has the courage to man up and defend women and BIPOC. Both of these can work similarly as psychological complexes - you have a mental image of something like a cool edgy schizo or respectable adult (more commonly a cool nigger) that functions as a model for your desires, and a standard against which they are to be judged. They are able to easily switch from one to the other because both formed in their mind unconsciously and automatically. At no point was a there some "transvaluation of values" or reflection upon what any of this is supposed to mean.

This isn't to imply an equivalence, either. If their former persona as an internet troll was less pathetic, it is because it was a bit more of an organic and vital character that required less obvious contortion. But it is was still that - a character, not an expression of their individuated desires. And "normal" people can step out of one character and into another with surprising ease, as long as there is a well-understood "role" for them to play.
#11
(09-06-2023, 01:52 PM)JohnTrent Wrote: [...] The person who has Troll's Remorse has unsure relations with his past, where he might attempt to mimic the younger version of himself when combating with those who are deemed to be "Trolls", but he will also detest his younger self for having believed in "objectionable views". [...]

Excellent point.

(09-06-2023, 01:52 PM)JohnTrent Wrote: As was said in the Norwood Vocal Tics thread by Moyai:
Quote:I believe it stems out of "troll's remorse", if you will. These people clearly enjoy their time spent online (even if they feign discontent, they still rack up enough hours to understand what "Nazi incel gamer chud" means) and away from normalfaggotry but feel guilt due to the nigger in their head telling them they shouldn't be, so they desperately attack some group they perceive as more online to reaffirm their normalfaggotry (which is unrecoverable anyways).

Moyoi is correct, but it is important to point out that the person he's describing is NOT a normalfag and NEVER WILL BE— the Failed Normalfag is similar to a 'recent convert' in that they become filled with 'religious' zeal for their newfound morality and go on the hunt for targets who remind them of their past selves as a sinner.

(09-06-2023, 01:52 PM)JohnTrent Wrote: I will prevent myself from speaking more on this so that I don't exhaust the subject. Anything which best documents or analyzes Troll's Remorse is welcome here. This can range from particular examples to your understanding of the concept.

Very good, I have a list— here's a few:

https://twitter.com/pressedyes/status/15...3606197253

For the record, I am a big fan of Petscop and do not want to shit on Tony— he is a great artist but seems unhappy with the fact his desire to channel Lynch's Inland Empire brought out good, but horrific dark energies from him (exactly like Lynch, who unlike him sought it out his entire life and was always prepared to be a vessel). He is wrong to think he did anything wrong, abused children from all over the world saw themselves in his work, many of whom are LARPing faggots, but still. I think the incongruence may be that Petscop was the first time Tony had ever actually produced art, in an aesthetic or conceptual sense, and this may have struck him in an uncomfortable way.

https://twitter.com/jowyang/status/1620128829661675520

https://twitter.com/falldogs/status/1140192081794744320

https://twitter.com/Demi_theynd/status/1...4631399424

https://twitter.com/LBashforth/status/15...3077754880

[Image: 90014697c5fd2eefd3e84a70bcb0c6a1.jpg]

https://twitter.com/electricalWSOP/statu...9710488577

I linked this one to you before, but again here for coherence.

https://twitter.com/KrisWolfheart/status...2249110528

Some fag actually discussing the concept itself.

https://twitter.com/JohnXuandou/status/1...0856839171



Here is the ultimate one, that I've found so far:



(09-06-2023, 02:26 PM)Guest Wrote: [...] I wonder if society or at least a layer of the woke facade would collapse if a deliberate effort were made to ask in-person the sort of questions people avoid asking and publish the stuttering embarrassed videos. Seems like a thing zoomers would be down with. "Have you ever masturbated to someone you know?" "Have you ever consumed porn with sadistic/nonconsensual theme?" "Do you have sexual attraction to your mother?" "Have you ever considered committing murder? rape?" "For that matter, ever utilized the n-word as a slur?"

This is more-or-less how shockjocks of the past worked, how they spoke to people on radio or in man-on-the-street interviews, it was quite popular. I imagine it will make a comeback eventually as a reaction to the current safety obsessed culture.
Zoomers would like it because it would be rediscovering their Gen X parents culture unknowingly. This would be a good thing, however.

(09-07-2023, 02:11 AM)JohnTrent Wrote:
(09-06-2023, 02:26 PM)Guest Wrote: A facet of this type of remorse is the alienation. Guys going "woah, I would not be accepted by normgroids if they knew everything about me- therefore every interaction I have with them is fraudulent, inauthentic" It is interesting that the guilt is over actions that they did in an otherwise typically private low-stakes venue.

Part of this estrangement is (in my opinion) from the deeply personal interaction one used to have with being online. [...] Now, it could be that the Millennial feels Troll's Remorse the most because he is the one that's used the Internet the longest, but consider how the Millennial had to straddle between knowing things that were pretty much arcane to the masses, while also indulging in the assembly line of pop culture. It would be an inherently isolating experience, which is still somewhat true today if you believe Hitler Did Nothing Wrong. [...]

Very well put, you describe everyone my age who disagrees with me and why perfectly.

(09-07-2023, 05:57 PM)Mason Hall-McCullough Wrote: My interpretation is that Troll's Remorse is usually precipitated by a person receiving an increased exposure to progressive ideology, and submitting rather than wielding the social power necessary to reject it. During their "troll" years they were comparatively insulated from progressivism and felt comfortable to mock it from a safe distance. [...]

To continue with JohnTrent's point about Millennials, this is why Gen Y fagged out when they hit Tumblr.
Something I have never seen anyone accuse Millennials of, which is very obvious to me (in hindsight), is the extreme illiteracy of Gen Y. I don't mean this as a negative either, just that it is not really in Millennial interest to sit and read much (I have only read a handful of books outside of high school, all the "reading" I have done has been reading the internet, and I was functionally illiterate before I started using forums, which I did in 2017, before that all I really did was go on the internet to collect pictures of things). All Web2 sites which Millennials frequented were primarily about image sharing— deviantART, Newgrounds (although animation, still), 4chan the imageboard taken from 2ch... AIM and MSN were also highly visually, the sites which had the highest level of 'progressive' politics were the TL;DR culture sites, such as LiveJournal (which was still very image heavy, with the ability to pin a roster of avatars to different mood settings for posts to display something visual for how you were feeling, or claiming to) and it's many clones (Xanga, etc.) which were the sites most occupied by Millennial girls. Of course, there were forums— but for anyone who remembers or has seen fossilized remnants of forum signatures, forums too were very visually focused.
It was when Millennials went to Tumblr (which for the record, had a very good idea that I liked and used, mostly as an observer, a social blogging network), that they were microwaved with TL;DR libtardism they had previously been more insulated from by navigating the internet primarily by and through imagery and gaming (if you were spending your time looking up shit about anime and videogames, you were not going to run into libtardism that wasn't being shit on by the larger populace as "stupid shit for old people" very often)— unlike many women, who were the primary authors of massive fanfiction tombs, more likely to go to college, and did not play as many videogames.

(09-08-2023, 05:43 PM)JohnTrent Wrote: [...] There were hints of this even in the early days, where "RE: [original video title]" were once popular. Those reaction video titles have disappeared, but the impulse remains. [...]

"Video replies" were an actual mechanical function on YouTube initially, removed because of women exploiting it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reply_girl

[Image: 11bd958fc8add04c1615539b3cef079f.png]

(09-09-2023, 04:48 AM)Numantine Wrote: [...] Nevertheless, as one enters the Real World and starts working, it all changes: peers, who seek their own advancement, will try to crush you as soon as they see any shadow of individuality in you, [...] However, the troll's change of mind isn't sudden because it isn't even willed, there’s no falling off a horse to Damascus either, there’s no moment of insight, rather one gives up the time where one is true to oneself, one hour at the time, until none are left, and goes on. But the need to be online is still there, maybe the last remnant of one's past self, so as a rationalization Troll's Remorse appears. First as a way to keep being online, gradually even from troll to it's so over troll to TR, but second as a perpetual incantation to ward off regret and sadness. Not surprising then that what most of them do is to tell others not to be like they were, to be normal, to accept a life like the one they have. Constant reinforcement is necessary, it's not you they're trying to convince. [...]

Excellent observations.

(09-09-2023, 07:25 AM)Guest Wrote: Once you think about it, this is probably the most important/strategic culture thread on the site. If you prevent troll's remorse in say 20% of potential cases, you harvest many souls for chud valhalla. Reversing the condition in even 1% of cases might be even more valuable if biased towards those with somewhat-higher IQ because they may have accidentally infiltrated the enemy apparatus while earnestly true believers. [...]

Gen X and Y may not be able to be saved, but if it is possible to take them back, it is curing this that would solve everything. Zoomers as well, and prevention for future generations (and the youngest Zoomers). I have been studying "Troll's Remorse" for years now, trying to understand if a cure is even possible... so I appreciate everyone's observations in this thread, as I am learning from it.

(09-10-2023, 02:11 PM)turnip Wrote: I find a certain aspect of this interesting. If the Remorseful Troll was first interested in being edgy and contrarian for the sake of social expediency, they have only naturally rolled over into the mirror-image of their previous persona as their milieu has changed. They have unconsciously flopped from one side of a dialectic to the other. Before they were the edgy offensive internet guy (though if seriously pressed on their views they'd likely insist they are exaggerating or joking), now they are its inversion, the morally serious scolding adult who has the courage to man up and defend women and BIPOC. Both of these can work similarly as psychological complexes - you have a mental image of something like a cool edgy schizo or respectable adult (more commonly a cool nigger) that functions as a model for your desires, and a standard against which they are to be judged. They are able to easily switch from one to the other because both formed in their mind unconsciously and automatically. At no point was a there some "transvaluation of values" or reflection upon what any of this is supposed to mean.

This isn't to imply an equivalence, either. If their former persona as an internet troll was less pathetic, it is because it was a bit more of an organic and vital character that required less obvious contortion. But it is was still that - a character, not an expression of their individuated desires. And "normal" people can step out of one character and into another with surprising ease, as long as there is a well-understood "role" for them to play.

All excellent observations. But as this concludes the thread up to here, I will make a final point. The "Troll" in Troll's Remorse, is the least important aspect of this phrase to me, and I only use it as a stand-in for a better, currently uninvented, term.
Many Trolls "back in the day" were actually described accurately by libtards, that they were annoying, disingenuous, unfunny, uncreative, obstructive people (though I would personally define Trolling as a creative act, and argue that a lack of creativity turns it exclusively into a form of demolition, which is not a creative act, but can still be funny)— Kiwi Farms is now their home, the ruiners of internet esoterica and artists. What I mean when I say "Troll's Remorse" is more like.. "Freedom Remorse", that there was a point in the lives of these people, typically when they were insane unthinking teenagers, where they were like electricity, and then, as they aged, they became "the morally serious scolding adult who has the courage to man up and defend women and BIPOC" because of Cool Nigger Syndrome or similar.

My point being, that I do not really care that much if we have "more trolls", as much as I would like to know how to cure this particular strain of apathy.
[Image: 0b065d24f0c9a57c24af80cac8885ba2.jpg]
#12
(09-10-2023, 02:11 PM)turnip Wrote: They are able to easily switch from one to the other because both formed in their mind unconsciously and automatically. At no point was a there some "transvaluation of values" or reflection upon what any of this is supposed to mean.

At least partially wrong, speaking as someone with troll's remorse. I've done a lot of bad things on the internet, probably worse than many people here - as a teenager, I attempted (nearly successfully in a few cases) to goad random autistic furries into suicide - just because it was fun and just because I could. Many other things, some more mild, some more horrid.

My own troll's remorse came around when I was 17 via being friends with a certain man. He was around 31 year old Pizza driver at Dominos, and gleefully engaged in all sorts of similar shit on the internet - and off of it, including selling meth to middle schoolers. Much of it was extremely funny and amusing to me, but also disconcerting -  there were plenty of similarities between us and I questioned seriously if that was the person I wanted to become. By that point, I understood that I had an innate capacity for extreme amoral sadism and recognized the origins of it in my childhood. That knowledge led to a profound self-disgust wherein I finally came to terms with the fact that I was a pathetic human being and a slave to sublimated neuroses. Shortly after, I renounced those behaviors and sought to purge myself of them. Following this, I experienced a degree of guilt for my prior actions and over the next 5-10 years made efforts to apologize to those I harmed, such that I could.

Since then, I've noted that the people I most admire have the following universal trait to them. Something akin to Noblesse Oblige, but not quite. Imagine meeting an extremely attractive and successful 'chad' at the gym, the kind that would go out of his way to give advice to the scrawny autist with bad form trying to lift for the first time. People like that - they never make sport of antagonizing those who are obviously below them - but instead seek to elevate them. I realized this first hand: I,  after all, was an unworthy piece of shit - but such types were always kind to me. I find their mode of existence entirely preferable to the one I once I embodied. I wished (and still wish) to cultivate a shard of that in myself, and to become someone that pushes others positively. If I can never truly be like them in spirit, I hope to find sufficiency in my attempts to realize the aspiration.

My innate sadism hasn't gone away - but it has been largely repressed. In my ugliest moments, latent strands of cruelty can still rise to the surface - but at least now I feel the shame to temper and restrain it when it does.

People who engage in acts of low cruelty are low people - this is obvious with kiwifarms and similar such places. Trolling is only noble when the target and goals are worthwhile, but most trolling is ignoble or boring (and that is also a sin). Aside from that, low cruelty entails a karmic debt. I don't know if I've paid off mine yet, or if I ever will - but I no longer experience the sharp isolation that characterized my youth. I still lightly 'troll' on matters of politics, quite often, but the intent is never to induce psychic harm.
#13
(09-17-2023, 12:20 AM)Zed Wrote: [...] I've done a lot of bad things on the internet, probably worse than many people here - as a teenager, I attempted (nearly successfully in a few cases) to goad random autistic furries into suicide - just because it was fun and just because I could. Many other things, some more mild, some more horrid. [...]

That's really funny, sounds about right.

(09-17-2023, 12:20 AM)Zed Wrote: [...] My own troll's remorse came around when I was 17 via being friends with a certain man. He was around 31 year old Pizza driver at Dominos, and gleefully engaged in all sorts of similar shit on the internet - and off of it, including selling meth to middle schoolers. Much of it was extremely funny and amusing to me, but also disconcerting -  there were plenty of similarities between us and I questioned seriously if that was the person I wanted to become. [...]

Interesting. I also deliberately hung out with completely depraved older people, laughing at the immense misery they generated in themselves and others.

(09-17-2023, 12:20 AM)Zed Wrote: [...] Since then, I've noted that the people I most admire have the following universal trait to them. Something akin to Noblesse Oblige, but not quite. Imagine meeting an extremely attractive and successful 'chad' at the gym, the kind that would go out of his way to give advice to the scrawny autist with bad form trying to lift for the first time. People like that - they never make sport of antagonizing those who are obviously below them - but instead seek to elevate them. I realized this first hand: I,  after all, was an unworthy piece of shit - but such types were always kind to me. I find their mode of existence entirely preferable to the one I once I embodied. I wished (and still wish) to cultivate a shard of that in myself, and to become someone that pushes others positively. If I can never truly be like them in spirit, I hope to find sufficiency in my attempts to realize the aspiration. [...]

I agree. Let's clearly define the issue of "Troll's Remorse" for anyone reading this that doesn't already get it (so far, everyone posting in this thread does)— "Troll's Remorse" is not bad 'at all', I would never suggest that people should be unchanging rocks— this is not productive to anything good happening.

The immediate criticism is that libtards "suffering" from Troll's Remorse have not ceased their pathology or sadism in any capacity, and in many cases, have become far more sadistic but internalized it through extremely complex Jewish language— though my specific complaint is when "Troll's Remorse" falls on a highly creative individual, who associates their past unthinking creative state with "being a bad person" and attempts to remove their ability to produce art to rectify this issue— which is ultimately unrelated.
Not to say sadism (lack of self-censorship, in brute terms) cannot fuel art, but that the most sadistic LOOKING art which I saw in the past (and even now), was NEVER made by actual sadists. The people who were complete pieces of shit went on to be like Justin Roiland and make things like Rick and Morty, the people who could stare down the darkness were always like David Lynch— chipper and willing to help the downtrodden. The difference, is purely internal. Are you a light that eclipses Lucifer, or do you want to hide under him out of fear?

The truly great never fear the dark, it becomes a severe tool for them to reshape the world. The weak are attracted to it, but easily controlled by it.

(09-17-2023, 12:20 AM)Zed Wrote: [...] People who engage in acts of low cruelty are low people - this is obvious with kiwifarms and similar such places. Trolling is only noble when the target and goals are worthwhile, but most trolling is ignoble or boring (and that is also a sin). [...]

I agree.

(09-17-2023, 12:20 AM)Zed Wrote: [...] Aside from that, low cruelty entails a karmic debt. I don't know if I've paid off mine yet, or if I ever will - but I no longer experience the sharp isolation that characterized my youth. [...]



Good luck on your journey soldier.
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#14
A problem with the remorse is the social aspect. The desire to not be alienated (or worthy of alienation) from people you can be friends with. The remorse is not direct authentic remorse but a side effect of an externally induced desire to change one's self. If it were authentic remorse like Zed's then they would presumably fix their character, not just re-orient their mindset. Futile ego preservation attempts like trying to be some sort of Nietzchean (definition: impolite to boomer waitresses) while simultaneously curbing instincts. It would be better to promote a healthy reorientation, but this doesn't yield a more politically dissident society just a more spiritually intact normie-leftist one.
#15
(09-17-2023, 12:14 AM)PIGSAW Wrote: Moyoi is correct, but it is important to point out that the person he's describing is NOT a normalfag and NEVER WILL BE— the Failed Normalfag is similar to a 'recent convert' in that they become filled with 'religious' zeal for their newfound morality and go on the hunt for targets who remind them of their past selves as a sinner.
[...]
Many Trolls "back in the day" were actually described accurately by libtards, that they were annoying, disingenuous, unfunny, uncreative, obstructive people (though I would personally define Trolling as a creative act, and argue that a lack of creativity turns it exclusively into a form of demolition, which is not a creative act, but can still be funny)— Kiwi Farms is now their home, the ruiners of internet esoterica and artists. What I mean when I say "Troll's Remorse" is more like.. "Freedom Remorse", that there was a point in the lives of these people, typically when they were insane unthinking teenagers, where they were like electricity, and then, as they aged, they became "the morally serious scolding adult who has the courage to man up and defend women and BIPOC" because of Cool Nigger Syndrome or similar.

(09-17-2023, 12:47 AM)PIGSAW Wrote: The immediate criticism is that libtards "suffering" from Troll's Remorse have not ceased their pathology or sadism in any capacity, and in many cases, have become far more sadistic but internalized it through extremely complex Jewish language— though my specific complaint is when "Troll's Remorse" falls on a highly creative individual, who associates their past unthinking creative state with "being a bad person" and attempts to remove their ability to produce art to rectify this issue— which is ultimately unrelated.
This is what mostly motivates me in introducing this thread, which is that the failed normalfag or the Troll's Remorse libtard is far more odious than their previous online existence. The concept reflects a metamorphosis of character, but it's up to the users here to decide whether or not that metamorphosis is defective. The winds have changed from what's acceptable, but it's hard to see how their sadism is that much different from the average /i/ user back in the day (my knowledge of that board is purely secondhand so I cannot expand, Zoomer moment). It can manifest as finding out how to make companies like Cloudflare stop providing services, or an attrition tactic: seeing someone disagreeable on an X timeline and reporting it to advertisers, so that the site itself slowly starts to fail. These tactics are more distanced than doxxing, they maintain a detached air while at the same time being very involved and very concerned about their target. When doing this they must think of themselves as muckraker reporter types, bringing to their audience an "awful awful" person and an instruction manual on how to eliminate his online presence.

It's impossible not to mention KiwiFarms at this point, considering that they feed into the lowly activity common to both stages. What makes their site unique is that they've managed a perfect synthesis of the two. The guilty and spiteful post alongside those who only ever felt spite. They feed into each other and produce intense reactions. Their sudden moralism towards the poster justifies a need that's always been present in the forum, it's simply that his posts are a convenient enough provocation. Do they really disagree with him other than on superficial terms? I really can't say. The site consensus flip-flopping on loli is another good example of this, while I'm on this train of thought. First there is a defensive attitude towards those who wish to ban loli, then turning around to defame others for their use of it. Because the site houses so many people at once (the only kiwifarms user I ever met IRL was a foid), it's hard to determine a general psychology, but I'd have to say their primary selling point is disgust, repulsion, and resentment. After getting over the hurdle of "racial slurs", a foid wouldn't take much issue with the site, as it's little different from Reality TV or whatever fills the absence of circus freakshows. Assuming that the users remained the same and got older, or alternatively that the userbase changed, then that primary selling point is reoriented. Veteran users of the site start to turn their disgust inward when their Freedom is locked away, new users feel disgust towards internet users before them. It's a chaotic turn in a pretty lowly site.

[Around this point, my keyboard failed. I said I would begin a short hiatus on posting in the Shoutbox, but duty called. Any lack of clarity can be easily attributed to this loss of comfortable typing]

These characters, the failed normalfags, play an especially pernicious presence because their split mind can only permit them to dismantle vibrant communities or interests. I remember how /r9k/ back in the day used to mention how the normalfag operates: every post and reply subjects the thread to their personal victories, unable to detach themselves and pursue a discussion in any objective manner. Now, I am not bringing this up because I believe in the corollary that the great poster is a selfless entity whose personal details are of no importance — selflessness can only go so far — but a similar effect is found amongst the failed posters. Their way of attack is through received standards or morality, which is only alive because they perpetuate its existence. As mentioned before, this can make Troll's Remorse a threatening force, as it propagates failed normalfag sensibilities and can put the genuinely vibrant into a state of self-denial and needless guilt. It is defensive of values and offensive toward those who've escaped its grasp. The person who has become a leftist can be a particularly odious presence due to this (or maybe simply because they're a leftist): someone else's creative work must live and die by their own values, values which are not really their own.

I want to say that certain manifestations of this remorse are similar to Moliere's Tartuffe (being put under the ire of others, apologizing and calling oneself a sinner, then going elsewhere to do the same things), but that is not very accurate. Many are not even aware that the remorse is superficial, and the behavior is revealed in different forms. They believe in the image they have set up for themselves.
#16
(09-17-2023, 12:18 PM)Guest Wrote: A problem with the remorse is the social aspect. The desire to not be alienated (or worthy of alienation) from people you can be friends with. The remorse is not direct authentic remorse but a side effect of an externally induced desire to change one's self. If it were authentic remorse like Zed's then they would presumably fix their character, not just re-orient their mindset. [...]

Well put, yes.

(09-17-2023, 12:18 PM)Guest Wrote: [...] Futile ego preservation attempts like trying to be some sort of Nietzchean (definition: impolite to boomer waitresses) while simultaneously curbing instincts.  It would be better to promote a healthy reorientation, but this doesn't yield a more politically dissident society just a more spiritually intact normie-leftist one.

I believe sadism can be a tool that drives toward a more dissident society, as I watched Gen X do this to great effect through the '90s and '00s. However, the short and simple is that without a larger and clear vision, all methods or otherwise WILL fail— which was what dissolved the X'r efforts, discounting them dismantling it themselves of course.

The unfortunate truth for Gen Y and Z is that we're all fucked— that is to say, we should not really expect for any of us individually to "get out" of this shit. I expect no family, no children— none of it. I am almost certain I will die in a ruined world, but I don't mean this to be depressive quitter faggotry.
No, I PLAN to die in the FIRES of a ruined world, one that I have DESTROYED. But what I DON'T expect, is to live to see the benefits of what I am already doing— that is for the people after me. I would hope, Gen Z could, but my estimated trajectory is that you guys are in hell with me.

But maybe you will get to see the sun like the niggers at the end of The Matrix and deserve it more than them.

(09-18-2023, 01:51 PM)JohnTrent Wrote: This is what mostly motivates me in introducing this thread, which is that the failed normalfag or the Troll's Remorse libtard is far more odious than their previous online existence. The concept reflects a metamorphosis of character, but it's up to the users here to decide whether or not that metamorphosis is defective. [...]

A very complicated subject.

For a moment, if I ignore my obviously personal frustrations with this, I might call it simply a "refinement" of character. The weak becoming weaker, and the truth becoming clearer.

It's difficult for me, again, personally, because I watched people who were truly great (and unhinged) see it in the mirror, become horrified at themselves, and do everything they could to ruin their own lives— believing they had committed an ultimate SIN against the state religion (which they had, and were right to do so, only wrong to second guess themselves).

The easy answer is, "they were faggots to begin with", only good because of the zeitgeist at the time pushing them in more interesting directions. Certainly, there is truth to this. But I believe abandoning people so quickly is... incorrect, to say the least.

Some time ago I had watched a documentary (I cannot remember the name of it, but if anyone does, please link it here) about WW2 in Japan. They were interviewing an elderly Japanese man who was in Japan during the war.
He told a story of the city he was in, looking up to the sky seeing a formation of planes in the shape of a flock of birds, and how it was the most beautiful thing he had ever seen in his life— technology and nature in perfect harmony.
The planes, unfortunately, were antifascist USAF firebombers, sent to scorch the earth, which began right after his thought. Something that would become an insignificant slaughter compared to what ZOG had in store for Japan later.

In the show Ride with Norman Reedus:



Reedus goes to SEMBA Motors in Osaka, a vintage motorcycle restoration business. They interview the owner, who has a restored 1942 Harley WLA proudly on display— a preserved relic of the country that tried to ruin them. Why? Because the Japanese are so deeply uncynical, they can appreciate things in this way. He recognizes that the WLA is "cool", it certainly has a bad history for him, but the war is over (this is wrong, obviously, and I wouldn't want to burden him with that) but regardless, the fact is Japan, and the United States are forever tethered— even if "America" does not particularly care.

I bring this up, because the Japanese power of forgiveness is one of their greatest strengths. They are not a quitting, submissive people as SOME FAGGOTS would like to claim. No, they are a MATURE people, ones who understand that LIFE is COMPLICATED— and the road through life, even more so.

All beauty and power in their culture, arises from their sentimentality.

I bring all of this up, because ultimately "Troll's Remorse" is a cheap, cowardly move by cynics. It is not motivated by actual penitence, because it is not rooted in anything REAL. It is insecurity at its "finest"— and it should be no surprise to anyone that Troll's Remorse often goes hand-in-hand with anti-Japanese sentiments.

(09-18-2023, 01:51 PM)JohnTrent Wrote: [...] The winds have changed from what's acceptable, but it's hard to see how their sadism is that much different from the average /i/ user back in the day (my knowledge of that board is purely secondhand so I cannot expand, Zoomer moment).

/i/ was just before my time, so I can't comment firsthand (my fat bisexual trench coat wearing emo friend that was always trying to fuck girls even younger than him, from a school for rejects we were both trapped at, had called me on my white Verizon Chocolate and told me to go on "4chan dot org slash b", I believe this was late 2006 or early 2007)— but from my extensive interactions with those types of people very close to the inception, I believe you're correct.
Soyjak.party seems fairly close to a remanifestation of that culture, although possibly more vicious, and certainly uglier because of the 'jaks (though they are very funny)— not to say it's bad even, my only criticism is that they generally pick shit targets. There's enough unrestrained malice there that if you could fire on the correct people, you could do pretty serious cultural cleanup.

Well, maybe I've given some people ideas.

(09-18-2023, 01:51 PM)JohnTrent Wrote: [...] It's impossible not to mention KiwiFarms at this point, [...]

My most hated website. I could not BELIEVE when someone was finally going after them.. that they could actually be worse! How PAINED I was that Keffals was TRULY a MORE disgusting FAGGOT.. and I could not cheer HIM (BECAUSE HE's A FUCKING MAN~HaHA!) on in DESTROYING that HIDEOUS SHITHEAP.

(09-18-2023, 01:51 PM)JohnTrent Wrote: [...] considering that they feed into the lowly activity common to both stages. What makes their site unique is that they've managed a perfect synthesis of the two. The guilty and spiteful post alongside those who only ever felt spite. They feed into each other and produce intense reactions. Their sudden moralism towards the poster justifies a need that's always been present in the forum, it's simply that his posts are a convenient enough provocation. Do they really disagree with him other than on superficial terms? I really can't say. The site consensus flip-flopping on loli is another good example of this, while I'm on this train of thought. First there is a defensive attitude towards those who wish to ban loli, then turning around to defame others for their use of it. Because the site houses so many people at once [...]

Kiwi Farms is a central subject to my beliefs around this phenomenon, very glad you brought it up.

(09-18-2023, 01:51 PM)JohnTrent Wrote: [...] (the only kiwifarms user I ever met IRL was a foid), it's hard to determine a general psychology, but I'd have to say their primary selling point is disgust, repulsion, and resentment. After getting over the hurdle of "racial slurs", a foid wouldn't take much issue with the site, as it's little different from Reality TV or whatever fills the absence of circus freakshows. [...]

And this is the key point, let me quote myself:

PIGSAW Wrote:[...] Kiwi Farms is contender for worst website on the internet.
They exist almost exclusively to browbeat interesting people for social noncompliance.
The only reason it's not exclusively that is by accident.
The inter-furry war between Keffals & co. and Kiwi Farms was very frustrating for me to watch, because in any other circumstance I'd even side with troons in destroying the website.
But of course, in this case, they were some of the worst troons I'd ever seen. [...]

2.2.23

Important to understand that Kiwi Farms IS the internet longhouse— it is the great machine of "have a normal one, dude".
I will briefly explain some of it's history, for those younger than me. "Kiwi Farms" comes from "CWCville Forums" (if you don't already think they're faggots, well) which was like an autistic special interest (no, I don't mean Chris, I mean everyone else) offshoot of Encyclopedia Dramatica:

Anonymous Wrote:[...] Cracky-chan is the name given by 4chan to pictures of an English schoolgirl named Olivia Fields posted by legendary Stalker Warchief Rend Niggerhand. Primarily taken from her Live Journal account ScareCrowMaiden, the pictures displayed an unusual depth of aesthetics for a teenager, and were promptly declared both cute and sweet by Anonymous. [...]

[Image: cb198f0b5649d57cf9b21bed8a07aa72.jpg]

https://encyclopediadramatica.online/Cracky-chan

"Stalker Warchief Rend Niggerhand", "ScareCrowMaiden" ..my world.

Anyway, I offer this as an example of, at one point, how incredibly different this culture was (do I need to tell you that all authors of the Cracky-chan article, the original e-girl, were men? Obviously).

Let's bring up Encyclopedia Dramatica's creator, GirlVinyl:

Anonymous Wrote:Girlvinyl (Real name: Sherrod Ellen DeGrippo✡; also known as Sherrod DeHippo, Queen DeHippo, or simply DeHippo; b. Feb. 5, 1978: Age 45) is the erstwhile owner of OhInternet and former queen of Encyclopedia Dramatica. She was first revered, if not worshipped, for creating the original Encyclopedia Dramatica, which spawned both smiles and tears from the citizens of the internet. However, this dramatically changed in April 2011 when she decided to close down ED in favor of OhInternet, a wiki that is was detested and panned by the web, before it closed last Thursday. The very people who helped build the wiki turned against her as her sysop sheep began blaming them for ED’s fall. The once mighty queen is now a center of hatred for those who stayed loyal to the Lulz. [...]

[Image: 922f4a67d0e6f7152a9c2f385964fd23.png]

Anonymous Wrote:[...] Bring your eye bleach because we're about to warn you that Girlvinyl is motherfucking fat. [...]

https://encyclopediadramatica.online/Girlvinyl

https://www.today.com/money/notorious-ns...act-123833

Let's note that the original intention of the site, to "document drama" was the desire of a FAT WOMAN. Interestingly, the site only became worth reading after /b/tard GUYS found it.. how strange! and surely UNRELATED.

I wonder what she's up to now?

https://www.linkedin.com/in/sherroddegrippo

https://www.cybersecuritydivas.com/cybersecurity-divas/

Somehow, I feel that we're missing some information on Ms. DeHippo. I have a feeling, that she might have done some government work.

Probably nothing important though.

(09-18-2023, 01:51 PM)JohnTrent Wrote: [...] Assuming that the users remained the same and got older, or alternatively that the userbase changed, then that primary selling point is reoriented. Veteran users of the site start to turn their disgust inward when their Freedom is locked away, new users feel disgust towards internet users before them. It's a chaotic turn in a pretty lowly site. [...]

Perfectly put.

(09-18-2023, 01:51 PM)JohnTrent Wrote: [...] These characters, the failed normalfags, play an especially pernicious presence because their split mind can only permit them to dismantle vibrant communities or interests. [...]

Again, perfectly put.

(09-18-2023, 01:51 PM)JohnTrent Wrote: [...] I remember how /r9k/ back in the day used to mention how the normalfag operates: every post and reply subjects the thread to their personal victories, unable to detach themselves and pursue a discussion in any objective manner. [...]

The World Wide Web. So interesting how many of us were always near each other, but out of reach. This is the great value of people 'receding' from (total) anonymity in places like this.

(09-18-2023, 01:51 PM)JohnTrent Wrote: [...] Now, I am not bringing this up because I believe in the corollary that the great poster is a selfless entity whose personal details are of no importance — selflessness can only go so far — but a similar effect is found amongst the failed posters. Their way of attack is through received standards or morality, which is only alive because they perpetuate its existence. As mentioned before, this can make Troll's Remorse a threatening force, as it propagates failed normalfag sensibilities and can put the genuinely vibrant into a state of self-denial and needless guilt. It is defensive of values and offensive toward those who've escaped its grasp. The person who has become a leftist can be a particularly odious presence due to this (or maybe simply because they're a leftist): someone else's creative work must live and die by their own values, values which are not really their own.

I want to say that certain manifestations of this remorse are similar to Moliere's Tartuffe (being put under the ire of others, apologizing and calling oneself a sinner, then going elsewhere to do the same things), but that is not very accurate. Many are not even aware that the remorse is superficial, and the behavior is revealed in different forms. They believe in the image they have set up for themselves.

It's always nice to have people with higher language skill than my own clarify to solidify these things. It becomes a weapon to do so— Sharp, sharp, sharp!



And let's cut, CUT, CARVE through the LIES!

[Image: 412e1ba3a98e0f1c4f61f987c71b48c2.jpg]

MEMENTO MORI!

[Image: a1358eb9025dda0dfc611dd8e3cff956.jpg]



https://metalinjection.net/oh-danzig/dan...baby-parts



[Image: 39a8e38012e45b344d9118f9552af9e4.jpg]
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#17
(09-19-2023, 06:53 PM)PIGSAW Wrote: Reedus goes to SEMBA Motors in Osaka, a vintage motorcycle restoration business. They interview the owner, who has a restored 1942 Harley WLA proudly on display— a preserved relic of the country that tried to ruin them. Why? Because the Japanese are so deeply uncynical, they can appreciate things in this way. He recognizes that the WLA is "cool", it certainly has a bad history for him, but the war is over (this is wrong, obviously, and I wouldn't want to burden him with that) but regardless, the fact is Japan, and the United States are forever tethered— even if "America" does not particularly care.

I bring this up, because the Japanese power of forgiveness is one of their greatest strengths. They are not a quitting, submissive people as SOME FAGGOTS would like to claim. No, they are a MATURE people, ones who understand that LIFE is COMPLICATED— and the road through life, even more so.

All beauty and power in their culture, arises from their sentimentality.

I bring all of this up, because ultimately "Troll's Remorse" is a cheap, cowardly move by cynics. It is not motivated by actual penitence, because it is not rooted in anything REAL. It is insecurity at its "finest"— and it should be no surprise to anyone that Troll's Remorse often goes hand-in-hand with anti-Japanese sentiments.

Being the descendant and bearer of countless Wehrmacht veterans in my familial line and rather unrepentant about it, it has always been a fascination of mine to observe cross-factional appreciations between former Allied and Axis powers, primarily Japan due to their remaining status as a cultural powerhouse and resistance to such efforts to feel remorse (I absolutely adore the Principality of Zeon from Gundam).  In Germany, most of my countrymen hold appreciation for the Allies in an extremely cucked fashion, much to my indignation they hail as "liberators".  This view was not widespread until the later 1980's, in fact, the issue on national remorse had been hotly debated during that decade to which we (the unrepentant) lost out and gave way to this unfortunate identity of guilt tarnishing the German nation (moreso in the Western states).  Conversely, Japanese nationalism had begun to rise when ours had faltered, making itself known through media exported across the world.  However, I am not here to discuss that (for the most part), rather, the worldwide appreciation of the aesthetic ideals of National Socialism and Hitler prior to the invention of the Holocaust through Spielberg's sob story Schindler's List in 1993.

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Quote:In an interview with Welt am Sonntag, Bryan Ferry, the English singer and musician, acknowledged that he calls his studio in west London his "Führerbunker". He was quoted as saying, "My God, the Nazis knew how to put themselves in the limelight and present themselves. ... Leni Riefenstahl's movies and Albert Speer's buildings and the mass parades and the flags - just amazing. Really beautiful."[14]
Quote:In the surf culture of the 1950s and 1960s, "Surf Nazis" would experiment with Nazi aesthetics, such as swastikas and Nazi helmets, and sometimes paint swastikas on their cars. Their motivation was often anti-establishment rebelliousness, rather than genuine sympathy with the Nazis.[5] American artist Ed Roth sold plastic Nazi stormtrooper helmets to surfers in the 1960s, and told Time magazine, "That Hitler really did a helluva public relations job for me."[6]
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Quote:Bowie: Christ, everything is a media manipulation. I'd love to enter politics. I will one day. I'd adore to be Prime Minister. And, yes, I believe very strongly in fascism. The only way we can speed up the sort of liberalism that's hanging foul in the air at the moment is to speed up the progress of a right-wing, totally dictatorial tyranny and get it over as fast as possible. People have always responded with greater efficiency under a regimental leadership. A liberal wastes time saying, "Well, now, what ideas have you got?" Show them what to do, for God's sake. If you don't, nothing will get done. I can't stand people just hanging about. Television is the most successful fascist, needless to say. Rock stars are fascists, too. Adolf Hitler was one of the first rock stars.

Quote:In 1987, Hanneman told the NME magazine:[11]

I feel you should be able to write about whatever you want. Angel of Death is like a history lesson... I'd read a lot about the Third Reich and was absolutely fascinated by the extremity of it all, the way Hitler had been able to hypnotise a nation and do whatever he wanted, a situation where Mengele could evolve from being a doctor to being a butcher.

People took Hanneman's interest in Nazi history and his collection of Nazi medals (his most prized item being a German Knight's Cross)[12] as evidence of sympathizing.[2] Hanneman objected, stating:[13]

I know why people misinterpret it – it's because they get this knee-jerk reaction to it. When they read the lyrics, there's nothing I put in the lyrics that says necessarily he was a bad man, because to me – well, isn't that obvious? I shouldn't have to tell you that.

According to guitarist Kerry King: "Yeah, 'Slayer are Nazis, fascists, Communists'—all that fun shit.
[Image: slayer-trump.png]

Excerpt from Eric Harris' diary, November 1998:
Quote:HATE! I'm full of hate and I Love it. I HATE PEOPLE and they better fucking fear me if they know whats good for em. yes I hate and I guess I want others to know it, yes I'm racist and I don't mind. Niggs and spics bring it on themselves, and another thing, I am very racist towards white trash p.o.s.s like [censored] and [censored] they deserve the hatred, otherwise I probly wouldnt hate them. Its a tragedy, the human nature of people will lead to their downfall. Peoples human nature will get them killed. whether by me or Vodka, Its happened before, and not just in school shootings like those pussy dumbasses over in Minnesota who squeeled. throughtout history, Its our fucking nature! I know how people are and why and I cant stand it! I love the nazis too... by the way, I fucking cant get enough of the swastika, the SS, and the iron cross. Hitler and his head boys fucked up a few times and it cost them the war, but I love their beliefs and who they were, what they did, and what they wanted. I know that form of gov couldn't have lasted long once the human equation was brought in, but damnit it sure looked good. every form of gov leads to downfalls, everything will always fuck up or yeah something.

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Even Star Trek took part!
[Image: st-patterns7.png]

So what happened?

Of course, some answers should be clear to all, the encroaching influence of ZOG, invention and proliferation of the Holohoax narrative, propaganda in the media, cowardice and obsequiousness to the kind schoolmarm so as to not OFFEND anyone.  My father used to accompany me to the local hobby shop back in the mid-00's in America where we would bond together constructing model tanks, planes, naval vessels.  German model kits sold like hot cakes and were always popular, we often struggled to find one still on the shelves.  During that same decade, World War II video games were all the rage thanks to Spielberg's other rancid piece of work, Saving Ryan's Privates-I mean, Saving Private RyanMedal of Honor, Call of Duty, Day of Defeat, Company of Heroes, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Battlefield, the list goes on.  In the multiplayer, everyone wanted to be Nazis.

Quote:In March 2008, the United States Department of State published a report to Congress, "Contemporary Global Anti-Semitism", that described Return to Castle Wolfenstein as an "anti-Semitic video game" with no qualifications.[65] The report picked up on an article originally written in 2002 by Jonathan Kay of The New York Times regarding the recent introduction of "Nazi protagonists" in the online gaming market (referring specifically to Day of Defeat and Wolfenstein). The article was published just 19 days before Medal of Honor: Allied Assault was released, which shares many similar features and Nazis as playable characters in multiplayer.

Amusingly, the Holocaust is never referenced in Return to Castle Wolfenstein, at least, I cannot recall.  That game was all about how cool Nazis were, our super-science, the occult, Himmler trying to revive fucking Rob Zombie.  Online communities were developed during this time, forums, chat rooms, you name it, exalting the glory and ordnance of the Wehrmacht, to this day you can still witness arguments over the effectiveness of each side's respective tanks or weaponry or whatnot, for a war that's arguably long been settled, though of course not quite.  You ought to know that the pro-German side of these debates are disparaged online as "Wehraboos", believed to be coined around 2013 according to KnowYourMeme for the next generation of online wargames, War Thunder.  Next thing you know, /his/, /k/, Reddit, everywhere is swarmed by their opponents emboldened to spread pernicious lies about the Wehrmacht.  Initially these were mere repeats of conventional counterarguments back in the day, soon taken to denigrate the character of those who espouse pro-German views, to entirely pseudohistorical narratives developed to assert the impossibility of Germany's capability to invade Poland, France, Norway, so on and so forth, as they were purportedly all flukes you see.  Entire YouTube pseudohistorian careers are founded on merely targeting this phenomenon, telling as much lies as possible because ZOG said it's morally correct.  "Durr, Germany couldn't win 'cause all they had for transportation were HORSES!"

[Image: zjc9lqik20hz.png]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitWehraboosSay/

This subreddit has been a source of vexation for me from time to time, not in the sense of obsession, but rather that I despise its role as an ersatz Kiwi Farms that targets those who appreciate Germany's war effort in addition to those who espouse their support for National Socialist narratives, those who didn't catch the memo these views are not allowed any longer.  All they ever do is gangstalk "Wehraboos" online, including ordinary German nationalists, just to expose their (largely correct) viewpoints to their subreddit to belittle.  I'm not one to demean others for caring, but why should anyone remotely intelligent care about this?  Of course, I keep answering my own questions, they aren't.  A significant proportion of these normopaths are remorseful ex-'Wehraboos' themselves, those who likely founded their beliefs on likely false information and now hate them precisely for said information, ZOGmorality, whatever.

[Image: 3c7.png]

I need not shit up this thread with more rancid imagery, I'll simply link to a gallery of such.  Of course I needn't explain why Paradox produces nothing but garbage, but do take note the exact same form of argumentation these images take, predecessor to the chud meme, equating obviously correct viewpoints and ideals to "freakin' teenage DORKS who belong inside LOCKERS".  I blame that stupid catamite mulatto nigger, Obama, always, as to why these viewpoints began to proliferate during his term as erstwhile illegitimate president of the United States and temporal lord of the Earth.  "Do not resist any longer, your master is a nigger now, it would be unwise and racist to do so".  Symbols of punk rebellion abandoned to realise "we're all in this together, what a fucking loser I used to be".  This has only deteriorated after President Trump's occultation and Brandon's usurpation as pretender.  In the Call of Duty: Vanguard, you are not allowed to play as Axis countries in multiplayer, In Battlefield 1(released under Obunga), there is no German campaign despite the setting of the Great War and absence of Nazis.

Speaking of Paradox games, I'm certain you're all familiar with The New Order: The Last Days of Europe, a modification for Hearts of Iron IV, another case of retarded Americans who wish to write visual novels yet feel the need to incorporate vestigial 'gameplay' elements due to its nature as a modification.  Are you aware its creator, ThePinkPanzer, is a repentant ex-'Wehraboo' who largely designed this modification simply to fight off the 'Wehraboo' and his teenage past in his head?

Quote:Daniel Xie: What has inspired you to create this mod, or rather adapt a forum roleplay into the mod we see today?

ThePinkPanzer: At first, I wanted to adapt the Facepunch Roleplay into a Victoria 2 mod, but as I went forward with the project, I started to inject my own beliefs on politics and the history of the world into the mod.  I think perhaps the biggest kicker influencing the themes of the mod is that I got sick of seeing people idealize Nazi Germany so much in the media, and I was starved of media criticizing and scrutinizing the policies of Nazi Germany.  Outside examinations of the holocaust, media focused on the Nazi period often finds a way to paint an idealized image of Nazism, which I find really off.

Utterly absurd, yet he is correct about their appeal that he found necessary to combat.

Quote:Daniel: The past few years has seen the rise of Breadtube as a force in internet culture, which, while not being particularly hard left, have played a key role in moving people away from the alt-right, what are your thoughts on the influence of Breadtube?

ThePinkPanzer: I am very much a fan of Breadtube, I actually asked Vaush for advice at one point during the development of TNO.  I remember when Youtube first became a thing, I remember gamergate and the rise of the alt-right.  There was a long period before Breadtube where Neo-Nazis had free rein over the internet to radicalize millions of people.  I am hoping that any group that attempts to counters that continues to be successful and thankfully I think we are watching Breadtube win out because their worldviews through the power of saything things that remotely make sense when compared to the alt-right.

Right... Breadtube, get it? Communists... bread... AGH!  ZOG as usual pulling out all the stops to convince the rest of the unthinking normalcattle and those with the slightest capabilities of thought the same message, "NAZIS ARE BAD and you SHOULD FEEL BAD!" that I'm sure haven't been said enough times by every other piece of media just beyond the internet.  I'm sure you've all have read accounts of Zoomers claiming to have been "radicalised" around Trump's victory by the "YouTube algorithm" only to be thankfully "deradicalised" by Breadtube shortly after, as if we're to assume their brains are anything but pliable.  Moral commissars left and right decrying and declawing all that is cool as is their occupation.

Though I obviously wish everyone endorsed the Axis powers as the correct side of the war, I honestly couldn't give less of a shit what most of these people believe.  What does concern me though, as I have reiterated across this post, is the highly coordinated effort by ZOG from all angles to deny the obvious fact that everyone and their mother understands: that Nazis are cool, and now you should feel bad for being 'young and dumb enough' to appreciate them in any way.  A significantly large portion of these commissars ZOG has mobilised were those who dared to be cool, now kowtowed before the party line as they wage these wars to satiate their normopathic bloodlust against those who resembled their youth and repent for their ways.

Of course, not everyone who adopted Nazi symbols were National Socialists, countless figures sporting the hooked cross also endorsed detestable practices such as miscegenation, sodomy, anti-racism, so on, such and such.  And yet, Hitler still appealed to them as a controversially inspiring figure.  They understood the weight of the symbols, Hitler's appreciation of Good aesthetic, the awesome German might that conquered a continent in a few short years and fought the rest of the world.  An act so inspiring that people even doubt the official narrative and debate the real powers behind Hitler, whether conspiratorial or magical, and whether he truly died in the Führerbunker.  Japan understands this, in addition to having been allies with Germany, with the coolness of Nazis coming about as its own organic trope still widely popular there today.  Most imbeciles under ZOG's payroll do not, however, and conflate mere appreciation like this to being one and the same as an overt National Socialist.  After all, you may convince someone to actually take it seriously, and we can't have that.  Like the case of the YouTube algorithm slaves, I presume most of these remorseful normopaths fell in the former and conflated their own simple appreciation to unacceptable Nazi radicalisation, or that it's a glimpse of what they could have became (if they had functioning brains).  I have always remained loyal to Hitler, though.

A similar phenomenon I ought to mention is the decline of Confederate iconography and symbols in the United States, with fewer willing to defend the "Lost Cause".  Of course, this is not as pertinent as Nazism, due to our familiarity and experience with its promotion on the internet, but still worth mentioning as another controversial value everyone in America threw out the window as soon as ZOG flipped the switch to unacceptable.  My apologies if this didn't quite tackle the phenomenon behind Troll's Remorse but rather I intended to record a large, societal example of it for others to pick off of as they please.
#18
Thank you for sharing that interview @Lohengrin.

TNO may have emerged from PinkPanzer's desire to cope with his past, his troll's remorse and reaction to ''wehraboo sub-culture'' but currently it's a lot more than that. TNO now may be the most complex HOI4 mod ever made, it has a completely revamped tech tree, new types of units, new economy tab and various other innovative features. Yet it's original developers definitely had a wicked desire to make a visual novel, PinkPanzer admittedly didn't even like HOI4 he just used it as medium. Despite being the original creator of the mod he is no longer a part of the dev team. He left the dev team in 2021 to dedicate more of his time to make a Crusader Kings modification named ''Godherja''.

So, what is this visual novel, which never came to fruition, about? It's a what if scenario where Germany wins WW2, pretty generic for alt-hist fiction. But it's main intention is to teach the player how fascism and other various far-right ideologies are ''ontologically evil'' so 'wooded leftists run a simulation where these 'evil' countries carry out their 'evil' deeds and the player feels bad about playing them after seeing the ''problematic nature of fascism''. This was their intention certainly, presenting a depiction of a fictional world where Germany won while being grounded in leftist ''thought'' to dispel and pose as an alternative to more centrist or rightist depictions. Aside from this main desire the the events (Lines of text to provide context) in the game are usually character-centric rather than state-centric. Which is very unique for a game about warfare and politics between nations.

[Image: 7.jpg]

How this ties back to the Troll's Remorse is former non-compliants may be more receptive to dissident aesthetics but instead of adopting it they try to combat it's appeal by presenting in a ugly, twisted way. Sufferer's of Troll's remorse may do this to repent and do penance.
#19
(09-20-2023, 09:49 AM)Virtue Wrote: So, what is this visual novel, which never came to fruition, about? It's a what if scenario where Germany wins WW2, pretty generic for alt-hist fiction. But it's main intention is to teach the player how fascism and other various far-right ideologies are ''ontologically evil'' so 'wooded leftists run a simulation where these 'evil' countries carry out their 'evil' deeds and the player feels bad about playing them after seeing the ''problematic nature of fascism''. This was their intention certainly, presenting a depiction of a fictional world where Germany won while being grounded in leftist ''thought'' to dispel and pose as an alternative to more centrist or rightist depictions. Aside from this main desire the the events (Lines of text to provide context) in the game are usually character-centric rather than state-centric. Which is very unique for a game about warfare and politics between nations.

How this ties back to the Troll's Remorse is former non-compliants may be more receptive to dissident aesthetics but instead of adopting it they try to combat it's appeal by presenting in a ugly, twisted way. Sufferer's of Troll's remorse may do this to repent and do penance.

I like to call this the "TNO Effect" for alternate history, in both maps and full scenarios.  Anything noticeably cool or objectively superior to our current world, be it an Axis victory or even a Confederate victory, that is, the most popular targets of alternate history that everyone comes here for, must submit to a principle of nebulous bleakness, suffering, 'grimdark' on the level of Warhammer 40,000... because people largely aren't hippy communists.  Though always a trope of the "Axis victory", the "dystopia", TNO is rather delighted to rewrite entire personalities of historical characters just to make a largely bleaker world.  Every National Socialist is an anime villain, Germany drains the Mediterranean for the lulz, Himmler turns Belgium into his personal North Korea where he secretly plots world nuclear armageddon... because he would, it's that bleak of a world.  Don't you feel sad that people in this scenario are affirming and enjoying life, just a bit too much?

Other works aspire similarly, transforming the entire leaderships of these nations into retards who fail economics and warfare forever so that liberalism/communism may still achieve their final victory.  Any earnest desire for a possible escape from this gay nigger tranny world must be vanquished and submit to the cold hard facts that more people suffer if you have fun, know that we live in Leibniz's best of all possible worlds.  Again, a lot of these writers likely designed such stories themselves in their youths, and like my example of anti-'Wehraboo'ism in my last post, now detest the fact they ever considered the validity of an Axis victory and that it's ultimately bad.  For these people, such as PinkPanzer, these apologetic works are largely designed to moralise and educate those that resembled themselves, lest they continue to affirm that Hitler is cool.
#20
I'm glad this phenomenon is being discussed. It is intrinsically a Norwood leftard tendency and quite similar to the "I escaped the alt right pipeline" meme. There are many "famous" examples of this and they really hate it when you bring up their past. One of the most prolific examples that comes to my mind is "Hbomberguy," a really annoying tranny-chasing breadtuber who makes unfunny video essays which aim to uphold the GNC Interregnum Status Quo. He is a former user of the defunct Metokur forum, a site which is infamous for trolling retards. I cannot determine whether it's a genuine self-flagellation thing or a cynical PR move, equally pathetic either way.



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