Twatter Drama Megathread

[parsifal]

a lot of you seem needlessly upset over this. it was simply a way for him to discredit the vacuous discourse about "based amoralism" by demonstrating its logical corollaries (leftism, trannies, bolshevism, &c). very few people fell for it because no one on the right actually holds these beliefs.

[GraphWalkWithMe]

a lot of you seem needlessly upset over this. it was simply a way for him to discredit the vacuous discourse about "based amoralism" by demonstrating its logical corollaries (leftism, trannies, bolshevism, &c). very few people fell for it because no one on the right actually holds these beliefs.

Imagine being so invested in Twitter clout-chasing that you invest months into curating a sock persona for the express purpose of "Exposing" someone. Not to account for the fact the person you're Exposing says more interesting things than you.

This isn't a means of "cleaning house".

[parsifal]

you're right, he should just be normal, have sex and touch grass.

[The_Author]

Imagine being so invested in Twitter clout-chasing that you invest months into curating a sock persona for the express purpose of "Exposing" someone. Not to account for the fact the person you're Exposing says more interesting things than you.

This isn't a means of "cleaning house".

Did Carlsbad do it because he is vindictive? Did he do it because he is chasing clout? Did he do it because he is gay? Did he do it because he has repressed feelings about his dad which he projects onto BAP due to his patriarchal stature?

I don't really care. Carlsbad outed some dumb gullible people for being dumb and gullible, and in the process he satirized some of the weirdness and hyperbole that goes on in this space. Didn't know that Masaki for example was so retarded as to say things like "Interesting thread on necessity of extermination of Poles ... I don't like the Poles, and every little tidbit of information I gain about them leads me to believe they are basically niggers"

That is the "political theorizing" of a clown rather a serious person. Carlsbad, no matter if he is vindictive or gay or whatever, seems to be a serious person. I don't mind if he uses clowns for their proper purpose, even for his own ends.

[Guest]

You could say it's a reflection on the ossified state of the internet right. Before Trump, RW twitter and various forums were full of interesting weirdos who liked talking about ideas. They existed in a sort of ghetto, and selected for individualistic people willing to stray far from acceptable mainstream thought.

Then we got a lot of exposure through the 2015 election and Trump's victory. For the first time in at least 25 years, alt right ideas had some cultural cachet and of course it wound up attracting a ton of people, most of whom were followers by nature and used this basket of ideologies as a fashion accessory. This development has led to various things, good and bad, I don't pretend to have worked out the implications of it myself. But among other things there's clearly a critical mass of people who will parrot absolutely anything they see high-follower accounts RT, no matter how obviously incoherent and retarded. Carlsbad is right about this and the "wow why do you care so much" posts/tweets feel like backtracking

[BillyONare]

Carlsbad outed some dumb gullible people for being dumb and gullible,

He did not.

and in the process he satirized some of the weirdness and hyperbole that goes on in this space.

Yes; it was very funny.

I'm not sure that he is such a vindictive person. He has a good sense of humor. I wouldn't be surprised if he plays up the cantankerous grumpy old man stuff with a smile on his face.

It would be funny if @pompilivs was the parody account and MogTheChungus was his real opinions. This is probably not the case since there is not much of a Hallerian legitimist conservative scene to parody and because he seems to invest a lot of energy into the @pompilivs account.

---

Actually I don't think it's impossible that Nigel is secretly Mikka's sockpuppet.

1. It would be a masterful hilarious triple cross considering their recent antics i.e. arguing the past few days, Mikka pretending to still be Nigel's sockpuppet, Nigel claiming that he begrudgingly respects Mikka which Mikka denies and claims to be hated by Nigel.
2. Investing hundreds of hours into a "Hallerian Legitimist Conservative" parody account is exactly the sort of subtle and twisted joke that only Mikka could come up with.

[anthony]

But among other things there's clearly a critical mass of people who will parrot absolutely anything they see high-follower accounts RT, no matter how obviously incoherent and retarded.  Carlsbad is right about this and the "wow why do you care so much" posts/tweets feel like backtracking

But the thing is that he didn't take the time to actually plant problematically wrong or contradictory ideas and then get them living independently of himself. What he did was basically build a light rapport with some open and friendly people who accepted him as a strongly spoken character. Then he includes some questionable minor details across his posts and then say that likes were endorsements of critical doctrinal errors which he spins out of these minor points that won't have meant anything to the people clicking 'like' to support their strange new friend who was being entertaining and outspoken.

The criticism is that everyone doesn't act like him and dump factoids on people all the time to try to score owns. "You should have mentioned abyssinian colonial policy when I said fascism was boring. The Right has fallen."

[parsifal]

But the thing is that he didn't take the time to actually plant problematically wrong or contradictory ideas and then get them living independently of himself.

he didn't do that because ideas aren't free-floating atoms which can be grouped together any which way. all of the blatantly wrong stuff logically followed from the same presuppositions which begat the subtly wrong stuff, and those were already well-established. it suffices to show that the former follows from the latter to discredit it, thus there is no need to do any more.

[anthony]

But the thing is that he didn't take the time to actually plant problematically wrong or contradictory ideas and then get them living independently of himself.

he didn't do that because ideas aren't free-floating atoms which can be grouped together any which way. all of the blatantly wrong stuff logically followed from the same presuppositions which begat the subtly wrong stuff, and those were already well-established. it suffices to show that the former follows from the latter to discredit it, thus there is no need to do any more.

I didn't see anybody accepting wrong presuppositions. And I don't even think he named any blatantly wrong positions that follow from the ones he raised. Just disagreeable to him personally.

If we want to talk bad presuppositions why don't we ask carlsbad how we're supposed to escape the dysgenic black hole and extinction if abortion is an absolute moral wrong and the bare existence of human life is sacred? That is a real presupposition someone explicitly holds and affirms that obviously leads to disaster.

[parsifal]

sure it's not wrong per se to idolize the soviet union, admire jacobins, or seek to include trannies, those are normative values. they're still inimical to anything right-wing.

on the other hand i don't see why the position that babies in the womb count as living "obviously leads to disaster." who's the someone in question that thinks killing your enemies is wrong? certainly not anyone we were discussing.

[anthony]

sure it's not wrong per se to idolize the soviet union, admire jacobins, or seek to include trannies, those are normative values. they're still inimical to anything right-wing.

on the other hand i don't see why the position that babies in the womb count as living "obviously leads to disaster." who's the someone in question that thinks killing your enemies is wrong? certainly not anyone we were discussing.

You're being a nigger now. Name the particular people who you believe were exposed as idolisers of the soviet union, jacobin admirers, and 'tranny includers', whatever that means. A like of a tweet is not an all in endorsement. It's not even something most people think about I imagine. Of course I'm sure it's a deeply calculated action if you're the kind of person who monitors the like-stream of dozens of people at any given time, but most people aren't that invested in twitter. I'm serious, ping the people on amarna who you believe were revealed believing the above. Do it on twitter even.

And all "pro-lifers" retards are a problem because they don't frame their beliefs as "killing is wrong" but the conclusion one takes from the principle of "pro life" leads to the same place. I didn't say they believe killing is wrong. Are you a retard incapable of reading these presuppositions you consider so important, or are you fucking with me? Either way go fuck yourself. 

The "pro life" degenerate fucking mongrel scum don't just believe that "babies in the womb" are "living", they believe that their preservation is an absolute moral priority. That's what the movement is. There is no sane picture of the world that can be built on that base. Ask Carlsbad about this if you think I'm wrong. I have.

[GraphWalkWithMe]

Did Carlsbad do it because he is vindictive? Did he do it because he is chasing clout? Did he do it because he is gay? Did he do it because he has repressed feelings about his dad which he projects onto BAP due to his patriarchal stature?

I don't really care. Carlsbad outed some dumb gullible people for being dumb and gullible, and in the process he satirized some of the weirdness and hyperbole that goes on in this space. Didn't know that Masaki for example was so retarded as to say things like "Interesting thread on necessity of extermination of Poles ... I don't like the Poles, and every little tidbit of information I gain about them leads me to believe they are basically niggers"

That is the "political theorizing" of a clown rather a serious person. Carlsbad, no matter if he is vindictive or gay or whatever, seems to be a serious person. I don't mind if he uses clowns for their proper purpose, even for his own ends.

The main problem with this isn't just that the means are petty, but that the ends are, too. It simply isn't CONSTRUCTIVE; if anything I would say it might be trivially destructive. That Carlsbad is using eDrama to leghump BAP is an incidental issue.

I'm not too familiar with Masaki but I doubt anyone who isn't cripplingly autistic is being completely straight-faced when they say shit like that. Carlsbad seems to view Twitter as a platform upon which one distributes their "oeuvre". Maybe it is for him, and long-form threads have their place, but the general best use of the platform is to spread humor, news blurbs, and memes.

[The_Author]

The main problem with this isn't just that the means are petty, but that the ends are, too. It simply isn't CONSTRUCTIVE; if anything I would say it might be trivially destructive.

How is it destructive? Obviously it has the capacity to bifurcate things, but it seems to be "creatively destructive" in this case. Where else does RW Twitter have to go? More threads about cartoonish theories, stuff like "how the Cavaliers would have won via their superior physiognomy if not for Roundhead armor, thus showing that the dysgenic effects of technology are always at odds with right wing movements"? More clout for someone like Carlsbad is good. Even if not, he provides a good opposition for BAP and others to be less retarded.

long-form threads have their place, but the general best use of the platform is to spread humor, news blurbs, and memes.

This is true, but there is a clear difference between a joke/meme and the half-joking-somewhat-serious retard-threads that people post on there. Masaki, in this case, was encouraging Long Knife to make such a thread about the degeneracy of the Polish race. Many accounts derive all of their popularity from such retard-threads, which of course multiplies the retardation. It's like the sort of thing that Feds do to discredit movements, which they may or may not have done in this case or which may or may not have just happened without their assistance.

[GraphWalkWithMe]

How is it destructive? Obviously it has the capacity to bifurcate things, but it seems to be "creatively destructive" in this case. Where else does RW Twitter have to go? More threads about cartoonish theories, stuff like "how the Cavaliers would have won via their superior physiognomy if not for Roundhead armor, thus showing that the dysgenic effects of technology are always at odds with right wing movements"? More clout for someone like Carlsbad is good. Even if not, he provides a good opposition for BAP and others to be less retarded.

This is true, but there is a clear difference between a joke/meme and the half-joking-somewhat-serious retard-threads that people post on there. Masaki, in this case, was encouraging Long Knife to make such a thread about the degeneracy of the Polish race. Many accounts derive all of their popularity from such retard-threads, which of course multiplies the retardation. It's like the sort of thing that Feds do to discredit movements, which they may or may not have done in this case or which may or may not have just happened without their assistance.

It might be (again, trivially) destructive because it just serves to "pants" one of the strongest Internet figures on the Right owing to his retweets. You know why the Left doesn't tend to punch Left too often? It's because they possess a modicum of basic political instinct. The problem is that Carlsbad is acting like underhandedly ballflicking a Twitter account is a means of "political housecleaning".

If Carlsbad wanted to improve le Rightist Twitter Discourse he could have directly argued against stupid threads on their own terms. I don't follow him and maybe he did, but in any case he opted to undergo a months-long covert project to accumulate "hard evidence".

Again, Twitter isn't generally a place where "hard discourse" should be formed. Maybe BAP retweets dumb shit sometimes, but he drops genuinely high quality information in his long-form writing and on his podcast. The point of the matter is that the end of this whole Twitter debacle was to "INTELLECTUALLY DISPROVE" him. Carlsbad seems to be doing plenty to discredit the Right here.

Also, the Polish really are retarded.

[parsifal]

You're being a nigger now. Name the particular people who you believe were exposed as idolisers of the soviet union, jacobin admirers, and 'tranny includers', whatever that means. A like of a tweet is not an all in endorsement. It's not even something most people think about I imagine. Of course I'm sure it's a deeply calculated action if you're the kind of person who monitors the like-stream of dozens of people at any given time, but most people aren't that invested in twitter. I'm serious, ping the people on amarna who you believe were revealed believing the above. Do it on twitter even.

And all "pro-lifers" retards are a problem because they don't frame their beliefs as "killing is wrong" but the conclusion one takes from the principle of "pro life" leads to the same place. I didn't say they believe killing is wrong. Are you a retard incapable of reading these presuppositions you consider so important, or are you fucking with me? Either way go fuck yourself. 

The "pro life" degenerate fucking mongrel scum don't just believe that "babies in the womb" are "living", they believe that their preservation is an absolute moral priority. That's what the movement is. There is no sane picture of the world that can be built on that base. Ask Carlsbad about this if you think I'm wrong. I have.

the point is not that people were explicitly stating these ridiculous conclusions (or else there would be no need for the whole thing) but that what they were explicitly stating is internally consistent with these ridiculous conclusions. some people were just liking a tweet here or there because it was funny or inflammatory, sure, and BAP does retweet a lot of garbage without a second thought, but you'd have to be quite disingenuous to say that nobody was genuinely retweeting LKE to "agree & amplify" his points. if you want a concrete example of someone agreeing with LKE, one has been helpfully provided in the post above this one. again, as i've already said, the point was to show that these beliefs, which were lazily adopted for facile reasons, are problematic precisely because they can be used to justify conclusions which everyone agrees are wrong.

kind of like you're trying to do me right now. what's the point of getting in a huff and relitigating the abortion thread? people have already made good points both ways, are you trying to trick me into revealing that i secretly believe in inflating the population of africa?

[anthony]

You're being a nigger now. Name the particular people who you believe were exposed as idolisers of the soviet union, jacobin admirers, and 'tranny includers', whatever that means. A like of a tweet is not an all in endorsement. It's not even something most people think about I imagine. Of course I'm sure it's a deeply calculated action if you're the kind of person who monitors the like-stream of dozens of people at any given time, but most people aren't that invested in twitter. I'm serious, ping the people on amarna who you believe were revealed believing the above. Do it on twitter even.

And all "pro-lifers" retards are a problem because they don't frame their beliefs as "killing is wrong" but the conclusion one takes from the principle of "pro life" leads to the same place. I didn't say they believe killing is wrong. Are you a retard incapable of reading these presuppositions you consider so important, or are you fucking with me? Either way go fuck yourself. 

The "pro life" degenerate fucking mongrel scum don't just believe that "babies in the womb" are "living", they believe that their preservation is an absolute moral priority. That's what the movement is. There is no sane picture of the world that can be built on that base. Ask Carlsbad about this if you think I'm wrong. I have.

the point is not that people were explicitly stating these ridiculous conclusions (or else there would be no need for the whole thing) but that what they were explicitly stating is internally consistent with these ridiculous conclusions. some people were just liking a tweet here or there because it was funny or inflammatory, sure, and BAP does retweet a lot of garbage without a second thought, but you'd have to be quite disingenuous to say that nobody was genuinely retweeting LKE to "agree & amplify" his points. if you want a concrete example of someone agreeing with LKE, one has been helpfully provided in the post above this one. again, as i've already said, the point was to show that these beliefs, which were lazily adopted for facile reasons, are problematic precisely because they can be used to justify conclusions which everyone agrees are wrong.

kind of like you're trying to do me right now. what's the point of getting in a huff and relitigating the abortion thread? people have already made good points both ways, are you trying to trick me into revealing that i secretly believe in inflating the population of africa?

What they  were explicitly stating? Who made the specific statements? There are no quotes or screenshots in the post above yours, take your meds and then tell me the particular person you disagree with and the particular point of contention. "Lazily adopted". None of these absurd points took on lives beyond this eccentric twitter character to the point we could call them "adopted" or anything close to that. You could say "lazily affirmed". But there's no drama in that so you and carlsbad blow it up into intellectual compromise rather than what it is, which is these circles being nice enough to let ranting weirdos hang around.

There are no good points against abortion beyond that it's ugly and ideally wouldn't happen solely on that ground. If you're dogmatically against abortion your worldview is inflating africa. That is a flat and objective truth playing out right now that Carlsbad hangs onto with a death-grip on irrational religious grounds. The point of raising this is that it's a real belief with real consequences that run against everything the sane people in the world want, and it's just allowed to hang unchallenged. It's not a vague, strained, forced inference I'm drawing. It's a clear consequence of the belief. This isn't a trick, whether you want it or not this belief niggerfies the world. This is a genuinely fucking terrible belief that stands open and unchallenged. If you believe that it's a good idea to pull the internet equivalent of going through peoples' trash and trying to practice intellectual entrapment is the same thing as what I'm doing you're retarded.

[Guest]

For me, it was skimming the embryo selection thread LKE made that confirmed him in my mind as an utter retard - that people retweeted it is far more of an indictment on this sphere than the retweeting of any number of strongly-worded normative statements. Carlsbad should've focused far, far more on creating such plausible-seeming utter nonsense, it would've been funnier.

[parsifal]

What they  were explicitly stating? Who made the specific statements? There are no quotes or screenshots in the post above yours, take your meds and then tell me the particular person you disagree with and the particular point of contention. "Lazily adopted". None of these absurd points took on lives beyond this eccentric twitter character to the point we could call them "adopted" or anything close to that. You could say "lazily affirmed". But there's no drama in that so you and carlsbad blow it up into intellectual compromise rather than what it is, which is these circles being nice enough to let ranting weirdos hang around.

mikka is strongly affirming the entire corpus of LKE tweets right now. the case i mentioned was agreeing with the point about poles. "adopted" vs "affirmed" seems like a deliberate misinterpretation on your part, i was obviously referring to ideas that were adopted prior to the creation of LKE.

[BillyONare]

YNBAW. I agree with every single thing LKE said including that trannies are the real reactionary traditionalists and also that it is normie sadism to be too cruel to them. We need mo money fo dem programs...but national socialist...

[Guest]

Took a bit to find this, but this is the tranny Yarvin is supposedly fucking. Not super relevant to Twitter, but probably more appropriate here than elsewhere.

https://twitter.com/DollPariah