Video Game General
Been playing Kowloon Highschool Chronicle while on pain meds. It's a 2004 japanese dungeon crawler that did very poorly financially, but inexplicably got a western translation funded by the creators of guilty gear, purely because they really like it. This gives a very good idea of what to expect from it. God I fucking love Japanese westaboos.

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Structurally, it alternates between visual novel segments and dungeon crawls. These are weakly linked by tying a handful of minor bonuses underground to your relationships with the autists aboveground, so it's basically persona but fun and interesting. It has multiple characters who aren't tiresome, which is very rare for this kind of game. 

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Most dialogue options consist of choosing one of eight moods to express from the autistic japanese cat-person equivalent of a bioware dialogue wheel. Most extreme emotions are chosen by holding the button down for longer. I love it.

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The gameplay elements are fun and lack any tiresome top-down design. There are a lot of cute ways to one-shot bosses or do weird minor exploits because the game is meant to be an experience, and the devs were just making things happen. There's a boss who's extremely weak to grenades because he's a giant pot. The devs' thought didn't go beyond the object level on matters like that. Player statistics are similarly object-level, direct, and undesigned. There aren't 'builds' so much as strategies. When you look at this shit, you aren't engaging with mechanics described by ChatGPT.

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Combat takes place on the same grid as exploration, and most weapons function like the weapons in a light-gun shooter. You have to physically move your character to be able to see and shoot enemies, unless you have some weird magic item you found in a hidden room, in which case who knows what it does. Most areas have fairly intricate layouts to play with this.

it also has an extremely cute psuedo-pc-98 minigame that I recommend playing for a little bit. Weirdly, it has higher quality art than the actual game.

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(03-05-2023, 09:36 AM)kirukuni Wrote: Been playing Kowloon Highschool Chronicle while on pain meds. It's a 2004 japanese dungeon crawler that did very poorly financially, but inexplicably got a western translation funded by the creators of guilty gear, purely because they really like it. This gives a very good idea of what to expect from it. God I fucking love Japanese westaboos.

Fascinating. I don't know Japanese PC gaming anywhere near as well as I'd like to. It really looks like a nearly ideal approach to the possibilities of the medium to me.

Screw it, I was just writing about this on 4chan. Let me grab my own post.

Quote:You could accuse me of being a multimedia minimalist and I would agree. I believe that we currently have an out of control problem of overproducing media for relatively limited visions. I'm currently reading Umineko and am blown away by how much it accomplishes with such simple elements.

VNs and Japanese PC games have been in a great spot to experiment as art because there was so little built up in the way of audience expectations and conventional forms. The worst things which emerged were reading lengths (longer is value) and sex scenes (some people just won't buy if they aren't advertised), but these ultimately didn't do too much harm because words and a few pictures of nudity are cheap and don't weigh heavily upon the rest of the thing. A couple of simple obligations out of the way and you then pretty much have a blank slate as a multimedia artist. You can look at all of the possibilities of a computer and ask yourself "what can I do with this?"

It's no chance thing that the man who has historically made the most novel and striking use of console technology and conventions emerged from this field. That man is Hideo Kojima and I will fight you over this if you disagree. He took the unbound multimedia sensibilities into a bigger market and rather than allowing the new conventions, expectations, and sensibilities to bind and restrict him, he made it his business to play with them, use them, incorporate, and break them at his creative pleasure. At no point did "what can I do with this?" become "what do I have to do with this?"

This thing as described by you really sounds like it's doing everything fundamentally right. Like they start blank and incorporate new media forms and tools as they want to do more things.
Anyone been playing Rance IX recently? The english Mangagamer translation just came out recently and I've been having a lot of fun. Story's top notch, gameplay is decent and even the ero content is extremely good. Can't wait to continue after work. Feels bad that we're probably not getting Rance X for like another decade but it'll be an excuse to learn Japanese or knock some other eroge off my backlog.

Ever since I got into eroge thanks to Sengoku Rance (one of the best games ever made for the record) I've been having much fun playing them. Despite the whole selling point supposedly being lewd contents I find that the big draw for me is the consistently great gameplay and story I find in them. Alicesoft especially keeps knocking it out of the park. A shame many of their titles are untranslated (been really wanting to play Daiakuji and Daiteikoku because they look interesting, and Daibanchou keeps having resolution conniption fits in WINE).

(03-05-2023, 09:36 AM)kirukuni Wrote: Been playing Kowloon Highschool Chronicle while on pain meds. It's a 2004 japanese dungeon crawler that did very poorly financially, but inexplicably got a western translation funded by the creators of guilty gear, purely because they really like it. This gives a very good idea of what to expect from it. God I fucking love Japanese westaboos.

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Structurally, it alternates between visual novel segments and dungeon crawls. These are weakly linked by tying a handful of minor bonuses underground to your relationships with the autists aboveground, so it's basically persona but fun and interesting. It has multiple characters who aren't tiresome, which is very rare for this kind of game. 
...
Extremely based taste, Kowloon Highschool Chronicle is excellent
(12-21-2022, 10:43 PM)Guest Wrote: Fighting games are spastic dopamine contests that demand very little by way of spacial reasoning, group coordination, anticipation of the enemy position, or high-level strategy.

You couldn't try and tailor a more suitable genre for the twitchy, reflexive nature of the greudengeist.

Fighting games have all of those things - what are you talking about?
They do not. It is twitchy Rock Paper Scissors. (I have nothing against fighting games, but he is correct on all counts)
I was originally going to write a post saying that is an overly reductionist analysis, but honestly, I think you might be right: it's Rock, Paper, Scissors with extra steps.
Strictly mechanical fighting games bore the hell out of me. I can only play them for short bursts of novelty and have never learned one. The most conventional fighting games I've enjoyed were Tao Feng on the Xbox and the various Soul Calibre games. I like them to look nice, be a bit more open with room to screw around, lots of visual novelty, etc.

I've never had much interest in games. That is, the part which serves as a contrived challenge so we have something to put ourselves into and win. That alone is not fun. If it's not embedded in something I can care about beyond that I'll get bored quickly. Some fighting games look quite nice, maybe have a touch of novel writing or whatever, but to really get into them you have to start thinking about them like chess, which isn't fun at all.

I really think that the Soul Calibre games are great examples of 3D character modelling and environmental design and realisation. I think they look fantastic and always have. Also cool announcer, and of course plenty of these games have neat music. In any fighting game I've liked the game part is the least interested piece to me.

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I love the colours here. And as for the level of fidelity, this came out in 2008. I think it's more than what you need to realise anything you're trying to do. Good amount of detail all over with the background stuff looking appropriately background. Newer games which try to use bleeding edge tech to realise similar blue and green scenes often get it completely wrong. There's a really fine art to this. Extraordinary visual literacy and design sense is 90% of what you need to make something that looks fantastic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83BhJAZrXrc

New crowbcat video.
(04-14-2023, 03:13 PM)Guest Wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83BhJAZrXrc

New crowbcat video.

I've been posting about how much I hate crowbcat for years and haven't played RE4make yet so none of the responses to the haters apply here to me.

He/they remains a stupid faggot and this video feels like it was made as a parody of his sensibilities and taste. These videos have coasted for a very long time on "letting the evidence speak for itself", which to a stupid person looks like integrity, but a thoughtful observer will recognise this as a trick to not actually have to explain anything or take any positions. He's mostly targeted games which are self evidently dogshit in the past and has just pointed out poor production values. Yes. Obviously it's better to have something that actually works than doesn't. Thank you niggerfaggot.

Here for the first time he has actually gone for a well produced thing against another well produced thing, and is treading into the territory of taste and judgment. And has really overstepped himself to such an absurd degree that even the cattle sense that something is wrong, even if they don't get it. They've already had their ZOGwhistle signal to buy this game and believe it is good, now a weaker parasitic one is trying to profit off of telling them it's bad. Something has to give. The tactics that work on soft targets people are already programmed to hate won't work here. crowbcat does not present criticism. He frames, justifies, and affirms the biases programmed into people by others. Again, why I call him a parasite.

Here, either through some kind of misjudgment or a misguided attempt at "gamer" (shit-eating rube) "integrity" (arbitrary petulance) has decided that this game has gone too far because Luis doesn't say Ballistics.

But unlike when he bravely points out that a game crashing is bad, here one can ask "why?". In response one can only picture him doing his best impersonation of an english teacher as written by Aaron Sorkin and sighing so hard he blows your house in. We're running into both the limits of consumer programming and a clash in consumer programming with the release of this video, and it's interesting to observe.

Also, a particular detail I thought I noticed right away was that he fucked with the volume of scenes at the start to make the remake super quiet while giving the original insanely loud ambience to make a point on ATMOSPHERE (beloved gamer totem). My first response to having this video shown to me was asking why he thought he could get away with tuning up the original game's volume 600%. There's actually a pinned comment now where he says it's original volume levels. Again, I haven't played RE4make so maybe that's true. But LOTS of comments calling bullshit underneath. If he actually did fuck with the volume (quite easily tested) I think this could sink him, or at least damage the prestige of the brand quite badly.

As I said in that youtube comment I made on the other video that was posted somewhere on this site, people hating bad things wrong is a problem.
A game called Unrecord got shown yesterday and the amount of norwoods and trannies being angry over it brings me back to the days of gamergate.



I've linked the twitter post so you can look through these replies yourself. These people are insane, 2020 really took an iron grip to the normie psyche. 



https://twitter.com/esankiy/status/1648717946477314048
Have to get 4chan to post the tarrant video and say it's the gameplay when it releases.
I recently played the duology that is the Kane & Lynch series by IO interactive. Having finished them, they present a interesting road not taken for action games despite sinking into the genres typical formulas of the time.

Kane & Lynch Dead Men started off quite strong with a clear inspiration from Hollywood

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At this very moment, when you grab a P90 in the  mission after the highly scripted intro, I thought "They got it"

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You play a merc Kane  sprung from a prison transport truck heading to death row, after a bad job in Venezuela where the manual informs it was "an action resulting in the deaths of 25 Venezuelan citizens." And the rest of his fellows which in the eyes of The7, the group he was a part of was likely due to him being a traitor who in fact hid away the goods he was supposed to get. They spring him out anyhow and task him to get the items back or they will kill his wife and daughter, in addition to being "partnered" up with Lynch who will act as his handler. Things only go more off the rails from there(Lynch is a  violent schizophrenic  the first proper mission you are with him, robbing a bank in the hope of finding the stuff from Venezuela, he shoots up all the hostages and Kane well, hes not a good mission planner if you could not tell.)

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Seems like a cooler set up than other Third Person cover shooters and a excuse to travel the globes kino underworlds, which it does even making them full of npcs with no penalties for shooting-as this is a mature, dark game.
Sadly something happens around the mid point of the game, it becomes like every other mature game.
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Due to both characters being fuckups as they say The7 decide to kill Kane, Lynch and Kane's family. They fail however to make them the subtitle only killing Kane's wife. Kane then precedes to behave in what I have to assume is a deliberate parody of  Billionaire's concept of the norwood dad. Going on a vengeance quest against The7 to get his daughter back, made tragicomic by it being well established that he has not been in her life for 14 years and the slaughter he goes on to do on his quest. This rips you away from criminals in the city to the land of Cuba(Where you fight in a civil war that is laconically as will be a series tradition elaborated on only as something started by The7 as their retirement job) and elsewhere to shoot hordes of generic ak goons.

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(I wish to note you can see her underwear in her traumatized hostage outfit, noting this as this was considered pure evil by critics in 2007, and especially now likely more controversial to many than the allowable civie death and everything I am about to cover in the sequel.)
The reunion is not a happy one and you are given a video game choice of leaving the remaining men behind and fleeing in a helicopter with her or going back to rescue them. Overall a game with some kinematic and dark airs held back by following convention. IO would receive reviews of eh and some sales, enough for a sequel. Happily IO chose a more bold direction for the series instead of following trends:

(The following screenshots for Kane & Lynch 2 are all not mine as my program did not work when running the game, apologies.)

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The in game camera for the whole of its run mimics a guy with a digital camera running behind you, down to audio effects. Many say this was because the developer was outright trying to make it bad scorned by their publisher or it was just bad. Those people were quite clearly filtered then and now.
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The game sets itself up you play as Lynch now settled in Shanghai with Kane coming in to work what is never elaborated  on further than a arms deal then going to Africa. Things go wrong as usual for the two. Upping the ante with firefights in slum highrises and sweat shops, scenes out of liveleak guns that at least don't sound weak like every other game of this type a improvement over the first game in every way-
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Dang, they did not shake off all the conventions. The game like the first turns in the middle more the baseline and is all the worse for it. IO aimed further towards something beyond the categories of the consumer guide, but not fully and indeed seems like they never will as the series was reportedly shelved by their new parent company Square Enix, who maintains the rights to the series after they became independent again in 2017. So having recounted and shown off the games what makes me care about them? Mainly how it seems sans the one "Hyperrealistic" bodycam game that has everyone in a twist, nobody has in the 13 years since the release of the last entry picked up its torch. Video games and the shooter genre especially it seems would slump off even further for trying to aim for a certain look or even having any attempt to craft a story at all. Going from the Hollywood rip off era, to a HBO rip off era to now this:
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Video game dysgenics you could call it..
Which brings me to my other point beyond its finer craftsmanship than the present. I said at the start it shows a road not taken, beyond it clearly not taking the path of endless mix and match slurry for your mulatto/artstation anime protagonists multiplayer season pass(It DID have tacked on multiplayer but a unique game mode, where it was heisters that could backstab each other) It's approach to violence and its related topics of crime torture etc is lightyears ahead, every game has a schoolmarm approach be it typical or one of the modern torture porn ones like the last of us, you do something outside the box GAME OVER! Here there is no comment on if you do or do not end up shooting the pedestrians around you. That just happens when Kane and  Lynch are around among other distressing things that they do to people, and are done to them. So those are my thoughts on those two games I personally enjoyed them in the two afternoons, one for each it took to complete them. I would recommend them if the above elements interest you despite the clear flaws.

Almost forgot to mention both have osts that fit like a glove and are quite good.


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“Power changes its appearance but not its reality.”― Bertrand De Jouvenel
(03-25-2023, 06:47 AM)Guest Wrote: Fighting games have all of those things - what are you talking about?


(03-25-2023, 10:05 PM)anthony Wrote: Strictly mechanical fighting games bore the hell out of me.


I like fighting games as a concept, i've always been a sucker for ensemble casts of any sort. And I particularly adore all the artistry that went into fighting games around the 90s. (Bengus and akira Yasuda are big personal inspirations) My problem is where the aesthetic appeal meets the gameplay. Similarly to how sword-fighting is one of the most striking imagery in human history, and yet modern competitive Olympic fencing is completely visually unflattering, only technically representing that which it is simulating. This problem where the visuals are reduced to "frame data" and other number crunching is present in other genre as well, and signals the death of any sort of "competitive" video game to me. Playing a fighting game "well" doesn't really do justice to simulate the clash between two cool-looking characters with distinct super powers. Does Akuma know what a flow-chart is? This divide is what truly makes fighting games, well, games.

Fighting games could very well be reduced to just the meshes of the characters with none of the flair and fighting game fans would have nothing to complain about. This same problem can be applied to other genres like MOBAs, competitive multiplayer FPS and such, but none of them ever had the same level of visual appeal that classic fighting games had (Arcsys and Koei managed to maintain some artistic cohesion in the 3d era but Capcom and SNK fighting games look terrible now, not that fighting game fans care.)
And if you permit me, it is no wonder that the competitive scene for all these genres has a similar genetic makeup (an autisticoid "number-crunching" corean upper class and a brownoid "hype" lower class) the philistine type of person (or human machine) that is built to commit a "combo" to muscle memory.

Adding to this, the superior application compared to fighting games would be the hack and slash games made by those associated with Clover studio. Specially Devil May Cry 3 with it's philosophy that the player should be able to do during gameplay, anything that Dante does in cutscenes. Nothing comes closer to the "playable action shounen anime" feeling than these games, specially not any licensed shovelware.
Heart 
(05-02-2023, 05:06 PM)NuclearAbsolutist Wrote: I recently played the duology that is the Kane & Lynch series by IO interactive. Having finished them, they present a interesting road not taken for action games despite sinking into the genres typical formulas of the time. [...]

Kane & Lynch is awesome.

Like you said, it isn't a game which rises above the genre trappings, but it has a dramatically better sense of aesthetic and detail:

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The thugs in the opening scene having magazines duct taped to jump suits (it probably wouldn't work, due to weight, unless it was jungle taped more elaborately, but it looks cool), never seen that before or since in a game.

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Small details here like Lynch's nose bandage underneath a balaclava, Kane's Aviators over top, makes them look more like customized characters in a multiplayer game (as in, they actually look like a person decided everything— rather than a "concept artist", though back then that wasn't a dirty word 'cause they hadn't filtered or broken all the talent).

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There're some really small details I loved— like Kane's push dagger saying "Revenge" and having an open knuckle— which I assume this was so it wouldn't collide with the trigger guard on a gun (the use of it as an asymmetrical detail while aiming is also cool), as well as him having heterochromia via one damaged eye:

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Extremely anime.

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The abandoned mall area is very cool, "wrapped in plastic".

(05-02-2023, 05:06 PM)NuclearAbsolutist Wrote: [...] And the rest of his fellows which in the eyes of The7, the group he was a part of was likely due to him being a traitor who in fact hid away the goods he was supposed to get. [...]

This kind of shit too, "The7" (with no space), "The Elder Brother", this all sounds like shit Thomas777 or SUDA51 would come up with— which is both more accurate to reality and more accurate to fiction (Hollywood) than most games even attempt to achieve. This kind of shit was possible in a time where no one would call you "pretentious" for trying to do cool shit, these details or "logic" have existed for a long time, but started to build up in the '80s - '90s, reaching a zenith in the '00s where it was most outwardly understood and part of the zeitgeist.

(05-02-2023, 05:06 PM)NuclearAbsolutist Wrote: [...] Kane & Lynch Dead Men started off quite strong with a clear inspiration from Hollywood [...]



I always loved this fight scene in Lethal Weapon 4, because it takes place on half of a house being moved by a truck. To me, the only reason to bother watching shit like action movies is to see the high neophilia Hollywood people come up with, which I consider to be what Kane & Lynch was taking influence from, as well as things like these:





With shit like Smokin' Aces, the microgenre of "Dark Vegas" (Lost Vegas would be cooler) influenced the advertising a lot:

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'Nam Death Card tattoo is very Boomer-chic (in line with "Lost Vegas" Americana):

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(05-02-2023, 05:06 PM)NuclearAbsolutist Wrote: [...] (Lynch is a  violent schizophrenic  the first proper mission you are with him, robbing a bank in the hope of finding the stuff from Venezuela, he shoots up all the hostages and Kane well, [...]

Did you know if you play as Kane you see hallucinations that force you to play in character?

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I played it split-screen when it came out, and I thought that was a cool detail.

(05-02-2023, 05:06 PM)NuclearAbsolutist Wrote: [...] Seems like a cooler set up than other Third Person cover shooters and a excuse to travel the globes kino underworlds, [...]

The scenery design in (most of) Dead Men also left a lasting impact:

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(I'm not that into the gong temple shit, but I love the use of overpasses as a kind of concrete "forest", very Japanese feeling, like shit from Gungrave or killer7.)

It's in the same vein as Hitman 2: Silent Assassin, Contracts, and select parts of Blood Money, which is as close as the west has gotten to "anime" (mundane-surrealism, like what Donnie Darko has in common with Texhnolyze) wrt scenery.

Marek Bogdan Wrote:[...] I should mention that the key architecture was designed and modeled by Svend Christensen, a former architect. I have never seen his name mentioned in any articles or interviews but he was instrumental in giving all the IO games, from Hitman, to Freedom Fighters, to Kane&Lynch, their exceptionally believable and beautiful architecture. [...]

The (illusion of) scale (and scale used as a method for iconography) could also be impressive:

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They did a good job capturing how ugly and "plain" government buildings are:



Basically, what I'm getting at with all of these points is that Kane & Lynch is a western example of doing what the Japanese (and Hollywood) are extremely fond of, which is applying "character design" to every element of the game (high novelty).

(05-02-2023, 05:06 PM)NuclearAbsolutist Wrote: [...] Sadly something happens around the mid point of the game, it becomes like every other mature game. [...]

I found that part boring and disappointing too, but still some of the scenery remains good:

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(05-02-2023, 05:06 PM)NuclearAbsolutist Wrote: [...] (I wish to note you can see her underwear in her traumatized hostage outfit, noting this as this was considered pure evil by critics in 2007, and especially now likely more controversial to many than the allowable civie death and everything I am about to cover in the sequel.) [...]

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(05-02-2023, 05:06 PM)NuclearAbsolutist Wrote: Happily IO chose a more bold direction for the series instead of following trends:

The trailers for Dog Days are fucking incredible. Naked, beating a dog with a plastic tray.. honestly one of the funniest things ever made for a game. The bowling ball trailer is also great:



(05-02-2023, 05:06 PM)NuclearAbsolutist Wrote: The in game camera for the whole of its run mimics a guy with a digital camera running behind you, down to audio effects. Many say this was because the developer was outright trying to make it bad scorned by their publisher or it was just bad. Those people were quite clearly filtered then and now.

I never understood why anyone disliked that, it was completely original. I prefer Dead Men because it's more artsy and urban, but everything Dog Days did was cool, and it also plays way fucking better than the original.

(05-02-2023, 05:06 PM)NuclearAbsolutist Wrote: [...] (It DID have tacked on multiplayer but a unique game mode, where it was heisters that could backstab each other) [...]

The multiplayer ideas in both were very interesting (I played Dog Days more because it was on Steam, whereas the copy of Dead Men was my friend's) but they were tacked on like you said— that was just the trend at the time— Prey, BioShock 2, The Darkness, Condemned 2, etc. all had weird tacked on multiplayer, but I preferred that people were forced to do that because it let you experience a lot more difference in what multiplayer could be.

(05-02-2023, 05:06 PM)NuclearAbsolutist Wrote: [...] It's approach to violence and its related topics of crime torture etc is lightyears ahead, every game has a schoolmarm approach be it typical or one of the modern torture porn ones like the last of us, you do something outside the box GAME OVER! Here there is no comment on if you do or do not end up shooting the pedestrians around you. That just happens when Kane and  Lynch are around among other distressing things that they do to people, and are done to them. [...]

It's because of Tarantino, mostly. In the post-Tarantino America (and by proxy everywhere else) you could run headfirst into anything shocking, and people liked it.

But there were a lot of people "helping":



"Shock culture" was everywhere, which allowed of artists to walk through the doors to the circus being held open by kikes for the masses (mostly seen in underground mediums, like Flash and video games), as well as to laugh at crime and murder (Tarantino specifically jumpstarted this, though it had been done before him):



Dog Days was in what I consider to be the 'last gasp' of the crime-grunge era alongside games like Max Payne 3 and Hotline Miami.
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I've been playing Fear and Hunger 2. It's very very good. It has the same sense of novelty and verisimilitude as the original. You find inexplicable experiences in places that are not sign-posted in any way. They exist somewhere, and you might stumble on them. It doesn't have the nigh-instant-kill beartraps and literal tetnus-covered rusty nails the original had. That on its own would make it worth experiencing.

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In a random dead end, I found a deformed clone of one of my party members. It yelled "I'm Levi!" then attacked. It died almost immediately because it had party-member-scale stats and not monster-scale stats.

I don't think there's one for every potential party member or anything like that. There just isn't enough space in game world for them to place 8 of these. I would have already found more than one. This might be the only one.  I'm avoiding googling, so I'm not sure.

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The game wears its influences on its sleeve without apology, which I like. There's no cringing away from its own influences like Jak, nor some obnoxious top-level meaning to show that the author is very smart like a modern horror movie. It's close to the 90s anime style of mashing together everything the creator likes into one stylistic vision, like Vampire Hunter D. The game openly rips off majora's mask and has a level similar to Silent Hill 4 because the creator thinks they're fucking cool.

There's an obvious desire to create novel stylistic trappings for the sake of itself, the way that anime often has. It often does this by applying this same desire to western touchstones, which is very nice to see. Rather than adding western grotesquerie to a skeleton that could theoretically be seen as anime-like, it uses western pieces to try and stylemaxx.

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The game has three days. At the start of each day, you get a message stylized with drop caps from european codices.

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Puzzles visually reference the astronomical clock in prague.

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One of the vendors is a child-snatching fairy-tale creature. You can find in-universe books depicting him in an insular style. There are more modern ones that ape Edward Gorey.

This all makes me very happy. Most of the good modern takes on western designs are very much not western. The japanese annihilate us at riffing off of our own culture. This is because they take it seriously at face-value without flanderizing it, which is what this guy is doing as well. I think this is a big part of why the game has a surprising amount of japanese fanart for a western rpgmaker game with no japanese translation.

It's about as close as something has come to evoking the same feelings as playing Dark Souls for the first time. It's a strange location that you have minimal information about, with its own self-consistent history and rules. You can piece it together, but it isn't mandatory in any way. You are lost there and want to fucking leave. Anthony has explained that feeling and presentation better than I can, but it presses the same buttons.
(05-15-2023, 09:50 PM)PIGSAW Wrote: ...

Excellent reply, PIGSAW elements like the architecture I did not feel qualified and you touched on them wonderfully. Did not know about details like the revenge written on his push dagger, always on the hunt for those proof the makers cared in a very good way to me.  While I was browsing around after I made that post I stumbled on two interviews by some Phd/Journalist "late capitalism" hack with two developers I dunno you have seen it but it only further vindicates what you have said and even with the very gay interviewer the responses are something to chew on, thoughtful(And have production material I have seen no where else).


https://invalidmemory.wordpress.com/2017...s-poulsen/

Rasmus Poulsen(Character artist for the first game and Art director for the second) Wrote:The whole Shanghai idea came about for several reasons. One of them was that we felt we needed to do something drastic from the first game. Dead Men was sort of like a globetrotting crime caper with a slightly “cool” cinematic vibe we were going for. So we were looking for something that felt like a fresh take on what cinema was, and that informed the YouTube aesthetics. I remember Miami Vice came out, and of course the whole of IO were huge Michael Mann fans. So there was a funny serendipity because Michael Mann had been doing what we wanted to do at the same time. But then again, it felt like a stamp of approval for some of those ideas.

These were the areas we found fascinating as outsiders, and areas that we thought would lend themselves well to our version of what this crime backdrop would be. The story is that Lynch and Kane are both on the run and need to lay low and hide, and we figured that a complicated and massive city such as Shanghai would provide a cool background for that story. During the location scouting, we got more and more sloppy with our camerawork. I think it was half-intentionally to push the limits of that particular aesthetic. It became more and more obvious to us that when we filmed these locations with the cheap camera I had brought, that there was something real unique and punk about the aesthetic. It felt fresh, and new, and dirty, and real, and dangerous, and we didn’t give a fuck. We had a punk attitude because it felt like it was the only way we could survive: by standing tall against the odds.

https://invalidmemory.wordpress.com/2018...-mona-mur/

Mona Mur(Main Sound Designer) Wrote:I love what they did; I love that they dared to do this. The only thing I was really disappointed about was how, in the end, the soundscapes were implemented and operated in the levels. This is only my guess and I don’t want to say anything bad, but I have a feeling that the publishers fumbled this by turning it down and making it subtler. I think it’s not loud enough! I have nothing against my wonderful colleagues. My guess is that the responsibility lies in the publisher, who probably said, “Don’t make it so extreme. It sounds like a horror game. Just turn it down totally! And let’s only use one or two of these layers and not the three as Frank Lindeskov had penciled out.” I thought it was a great pity. They were afraid.
[Image: 3RVIe13.gif]

“Power changes its appearance but not its reality.”― Bertrand De Jouvenel
Music 
(05-16-2023, 03:52 AM)kirukuni Wrote: [...] The game wears its influences on its sleeve without apology, which I like. There's no cringing away from its own influences like Jak, nor some obnoxious top-level meaning to show that the author is very smart like a modern horror movie. It's close to the 90s anime style of mashing together everything the creator likes into one stylistic vision, like Vampire Hunter D. The game openly rips off majora's mask and has a level similar to Silent Hill 4 because the creator thinks they're fucking cool. [...]

I haven't played either of that Finn's games yet, but I thought the same thing after looking at it:

[Image: bdbuxb8q1vt51.png]

https://www.reddit.com/r/RPGMaker/commen...e_main_14/

I'm kind of sad the 'Caligura' character didn't stay literally Marylin Manson, but obviously I get why.

[Image: ss_94578ef79df6804578f894dd10ed5df883a1c...1670614736]
[Image: 64-01%20FB%20a-left%20RGB.jpg]

Anthropomorphizing a Bacon is also cool, correct method of studying Silent Hill considering Ito did the same (albeit less obviously).

(05-16-2023, 08:07 AM)NuclearAbsolutist Wrote: [...] While I was browsing around after I made that post I stumbled on two interviews by some Phd/Journalist "late capitalism" hack with two developers I dunno you have seen it but it only further vindicates what you have said and even with the very gay interviewer the responses are something to chew on, thoughtful(And have production material I have seen no where else).


https://invalidmemory.wordpress.com/2017...s-poulsen/ [...]

No, I think the last time I played Dog Days was before this was written— or if it wasn't, all my research and observations I wrote out were conducted earlier.
This article is great, lotta shit I didn't know about.

Rasmus Poulsen Wrote:[...] I originally started my studies thinking I was going to be in poster and graphic design. I studied at the Royal Danish Academy of Fine Arts and their School of Design in a broad field called visual communication. That includes everything from graphic design, fonts, illustration, special effects, advertising, stop motion animation using little puppets with wireframes inside them, and 3D graphics. [...]

This explains why this guy isn't a faggot or a retard and why he can make good games— as he's coming from the real world having studied a wide breath of art and culture with the intent to apply it for entertainment or industrial uses. Meaning, he isn't going to have a 'genrefied' mind— he isn't going to be trapped in clichés or rote modes of thought which lead to shit videogames (or anything else).

Rasmus Poulsen Wrote:[...] The game came out during the financial crisis, and people were more careful with their money. And you could also say that if there’s a financial crisis and people are concerned about what their future will bring, then maybe they are more interested in uplifting entertainment rather than super bleak experiences. [...]

[...] audiences who wanted more positive media, [...]

As usual that stupid mulatto nigger Obama (though I blame the administration more, he was just a puppet) ruined fucking everything— but fuck the public for giving a shit. My life got worse in 2008 because those Wall Street kikes crashed the economy (and made us pay for it) so I basically couldn't progress as an adult for Obamas 2 nigger terms— but it didn't turn me into some reticent cocksucker.

Anyway, for anyone who wants to seriously understand games you should watch and listen to GDC bullshit (YouTube + the website, which has older shit, or whatever their reasoning is, that they don't put on the YouTube) like what's linked to in this article.

D.I.C.E. Summit is another one.

Rasmus Poulsen Wrote:[...] So we were looking for something that felt like a fresh take on what cinema was, and that informed the YouTube aesthetics. I remember Miami Vice came out, and of course the whole of IO were huge Michael Mann fans. So there was a funny serendipity because Michael Mann had been doing what we wanted to do at the same time. But then again, it felt like a stamp of approval for some of those ideas. [...]

[...] At the time we went to Shanghai, Martin Emborg—one of my colleagues who just released his game called ECHO from his company Ultra Ultra—produced some vibe videos based on material he and I had shot to explore what I would call an “urban loneliness” vibe. [...]

[...] During the location scouting, we got more and more sloppy with our camerawork. I think it was half-intentionally to push the limits of that particular aesthetic. It became more and more obvious to us that when we filmed these locations with the cheap camera I had brought, that there was something real unique and punk about the aesthetic. It felt fresh, and new, and dirty, and real, and dangerous, and we didn’t give a fuck. We had a punk attitude because it felt like it was the only way we could survive: by standing tall against the odds. [...]

That's interesting my guess about Mann's Miami Vice was correct. I was just firing from the hip 'cause older guys tend to worship Mann and at that time his latest movie had been released over a year before the launch of Dead Men.
On that subject, I really liked that microstyle at the time— my favorite period of Lynch was his 'net era and I loved him channeling the same aesthetic (which I think Poulsen is sanitizing by only saying YouTube, when disgusting early digital porn is just as relevant):




Lynch would probably give the same answer (for PR reasons), but it's ridiculous to disinclude porn if "the internet" is the primary inspiration. Especially wrt drawing anti-aesthetics or "shock" imagery from it.

Rasmus Poulsen Wrote:[...] I’m fascinated by the urban cityscapes and all that stuff that isn’t presented to consumers: not the storefront, but the back where everything else is kept and workers have a cigarette while waiting for their time to go home. The inside, un-presented parts of cities are like the real face of the place you’re in. I remember working in a supermarket as a teenager. I was sorting bottles and all that stuff. And I remember the feeling of going from the store area to the back, and you start seeing the fruit flies and how things are just not nice back there. I think that affected me quite a lot in the sense that I discovered the backside of the city.

And when we talk about loneliness, I have a fascination for disused stuff, whether that’s buildings, or junk, or plastic remains of something, or chairs, or whatever. [...]

[...] but what I’m really sad about now is that both the field and the dingy street are gone. Now it’s just glass skyscrapers. That contrast appeals to me on an aesthetic and human level. I’m fascinated with things in flux: half-states and things transitioning from one to another, [...]

Great thoughts, all ones I share with him. Some time ago (back when I actively used Tumblr) I'd found 'unplaces'— which is basically a rip-off of Rafman's 9-eyes (although I kind of like it more, because of his taste in imagery, but that's a difference in the projects since Rafman also hired people to select images for him to further distance himself as "photographer"). Both examples of anti-photography through new mediums (like Google's 9-eye) in relation to the aesthetics he's talking about.

Ito has unsurprisingly expressed similar thoughts before as well:

[Image: a4a701fc479a7cca469d2585c0e283ad.png]

[Sauce]

[Image: 03.png]

The photography showcased in that article is great, I really like this one in particular. Looks like (digital) lomography you'd see on a Japanese guy's blog in 2009.

Again, the connecting tissue here is that he's drawing from his own life, traveling to real places for gamedev.. he isn't treating building a game as something you do in a vacuum.

Rasmus Poulsen Wrote:[...] The production art we did, in terms of research photography, focused much more on the non-action parts such as the cigarette you have after a tough day of shooting and being a gangster.

I wanted to try and make sure that the audience had a little bit of that waiting and non-action as a strange, awkward contrast to the game, which is running at full speed at all times. [...]

The lack of this specific thinking has always been my issue with GTA (and by proxy, all crime games). Where is the American (or anyone else's) Shenmue? Rockstar got close with Bully and GTA IV, but the spic-nig cycle has always held them back from realizing their full potential, something which would greatly upset "people" who experience real life in same fidelity as Vice City.

Player Two Wrote:[...] It feels like an anti-capitalist critique in the game, in how this speculative real estate market is what’s causing urban decay and poverty. How important was it for you to convey these ideas? [...]

I would say for me, it’s less about anti-capitalism as such because I think that’s an oversimplification of things. [...]

Imagining the interviewer's disappointment is so funny.

Player Two Wrote:[...] I remember one moment where Lynch kicks down a door and is surprised to find that it opens out into empty space because the adjacent building was torn down. [...]

[...] And of course, we riff on the Kowloon Walled City, where you are not sure if you are inside or outside because the alleyway is so narrow it feels like you’re in a hallway. [...]

[Image: 0111.png]
[Image: 01121.png]

These are so much better than what I imagine they were forced to use for the final box. Never saw them before, I like all of them but #1 and #4 would be shocking on a display shelf. I really like the way the font is cut off on #1 and #2 and the Chinese characters above the "and" on #1, #2, and #4.

Rasmus Poulsen Wrote:[...] Some of it was because it’s hard to believe in a vision before it happens. When it’s done, people go, “Oh, I see what you mean,” and “Yeah, I like that.” [...] But why would I go bland and try to please everyone by making something that felt designed by a committee? [...] Of course, we added a check to settle down the camera shake a little bit because we had complaints. It’s always difficult when you want to make a product that is a half-art, half-commercial entity. [...]

Rasmus Poulsen Wrote:[...] They understand that it’s an anti-game, and they also understand that it will make them feel uncomfortable and tired. [...] But there’s something there, and that something came from the style and the fact that we chose to go so punk. [...]

Player Two Wrote:[...] I remember sifting through the game’s marketing campaign and finding the tagline, “The world’s first documentary shooter.” [...]

[...] Well, can it be a documentary? I’m not entirely sure, but of course that’s a play with the notion that the game felt so real. We also had a tagline saying, “Real ain’t pretty.” With these, we were playing with the idea that the game knew that it was ugly and off-putting, and you could call it snuff, YouTube, documentary, gonzo. [...]

Rasmus Poulsen Wrote:[...] it’s about playing with associations to create an experience. [...] I don’t care about following the rules. I care about you feeling a certain way and giving you a unique experience. [...]

Player Two Wrote:It reminds me—and maybe it’s just because you’re from Denmark—of the Danish Dogme95 films: the use of natural lighting with shaky handheld cameras, and the lack of special effects. Did these movies ever cross your mind in making the game?

I would say not actively, but I’m sure it was part of our shared creative fabric. I mean Lars von Trier, he likes to cross the world, and I think there’s definitely some shared artistry and cocky behavior that is off-putting but still has heart. [...]

With the modern gaming landscape saturated in "hopepunk" it's astounding to think anyone was ever allowed to be so negative, to be anti-anything at all.

Rasmus Poulsen Wrote:The same with the violence. I remember doing some textures or blood splatter, something really vile and disgusting. I was playing the game and pulled off a headshot, and blood smeared on the wall and the face got pixelated. I was so disgusted that I couldn’t stop laughing, [...] And that’s when I knew that there was something going on that was interesting.

Gamers rise up.

Rasmus Poulsen Wrote:[...] I don’t entirely remember the reasoning for the taxidermy thing, but we just figured that it would be a really strange place for it to be. We figured that the boss had a penchant for taxidermy, which would make a really weird and memorable later level in the game. It’s almost like set dressing for a strange crime lord with eccentric habits. [...] I think the game had been so cold: very few trees, if any. We had a couple of trees, but not many. It’s very devoid of plant life in general. [...]

Player Two Wrote:That’s an interesting thought now that you bring it up. The idea that the game didn’t really have any trees or natural things, [...]

The antithesis of the "fernmake" (as Anthony has perfectly described), this was probably my favorite prevailing trend of the '90s - '00s. The "depopulated world", fascination with barren landscapes, concrete.. Bliss.

Player Two Wrote:What was the last thing you remember working on Kane & Lynch 2?

Wow. [pauses] The last thing I remember was polishing the menus. The raindrops on the window from the hotel. That was the last thing I made for the game.

[Image: 0009.jpg]

Really awesome.

(05-16-2023, 08:07 AM)NuclearAbsolutist Wrote: [...] https://invalidmemory.wordpress.com/2018...-mona-mur/ [...]

Mona Mur Wrote:[...] Around 1995, I was also on the Internet and very interested in figuring out how to get sound onto the Internet, [...]

Mona Mur Wrote:[...] But yeah, that’s how I got into computer games. I had a strong attraction and intuition to it, [...] my chance was to find the weird and the strange, and to use obsolete software and vintage synthesizers in a very odd way. [...]

Mona Mur Wrote:[...] Klaus Riech, the developer of the game, is a genius and still my friend. He later stepped out of the computer games business because he found it too inhumane, and he became an animal rights activist and total organic food expert. [...]

Mona Mur Wrote:[...] Klaus Riech had a very strong sense of the audio, and unlike many other developers, he has this super fine and sophisticated feeling about how the whole thing should sound. And he only has one ear! Klaus actually damaged his eardrum when he was in his teenage years, so this guy listens with only one ear. The first thing he said to me was that there had to be hyper-realistic sound design, but the music and atmosphere should be surreal. [...] I had bought a wooden ball from travels to Essaouira, Morocco. They sell wooden balls made from the wood of acacia roots there. The stone ball was harder to find. I asked friends who were in the antiques business if they had a stone ball I could use. In the Polish city of Danzig, on the Baltic coast, they have huge stone balls in front of houses, but I could not possibly got there to steal or buy one! [laughs] So instead, I mixed in glass sounds, but Klaus—the guy with one ear—immediately found out. He said, “Sounds like glass!” [...]

Mona Mur Wrote:[...] Their record company was called Industrial Records, they released Music from the Death Factory, and had the tagline “Industrial Music for Industrial People,” so really, we were talking about a kind of non-music. It was even anti-music. [...] This idea of anti-music slept in my head until I had my own computers and studio and was able to really let this creative input stream out of myself and, with the help of these machines, get into videogames. [...]

Karsten Lund Wrote:[...] If we are successful, the audience will perceive this as a game without music, but with a strong sense of the mood in the environment.” [...]

There's that word again; that sentiment.

Mona Mur Wrote:[...] As an artist, you are always influenced by the conditions, locations, and your existence within these parameters. [...] There was the Iron Curtain with rockets planted along the border, and as young people, we were convinced that we would die in the nuclear holocaust very soon. [...]

Mona Mur Wrote:[...] The second pillar is modulated sound effects, which include audio signals processed with old and unusual software such as SuperCollider from 1998. [...] In Kane & Lynch 2, there’s one level at an abandoned train station and another at a sweatshop, so it made a lot of sense to use extensive train recordings and sewing machine recordings, but with obscene things done with them. I joke with En Esch about this because he’s not into this idea. He has his own torture instruments, but for me, distortion is one secret. [...]

Mona Mur Wrote:[...] I saw that this whole scene was super fucked up. “Fucked up” was one of the terms that was very often used to describe what they wanted from me. “Mona, it can be even more fucked up!” [...] and being totally unlike everybody else. You have to be an antagonist, not a protagonist. I’m from an artist generation where you have to put the finger right into the wound—not to please people. [...]

Mona Mur Wrote:[...] You can find a kind of Japanese take on the whole issue too. There are surreal elements akin to Silent Hill. [...]

Mona Mur Wrote:[...] I saw two levels: the boss level with the taxidermied animals and the level with the torture scene. These are two very extreme situations, so I thought we should have the total extreme contrast. That idea made me go to my friend Christian St. Claire, who has a very expensive studio in Berlin, Clarity Studio. [...] And of course, I think about Kenji Kawai and his work for Ghost in the Shell. That involved expensive and wonderfully, beautifully recorded metal percussion in long reverberation rooms with other unearthly effects. This is what I did there. I thought this should be in contrast to all the grittiness, dirtiness, craziness, and hysteria, to have these extremely beautiful layers that only occur twice in the game. [...]

[...] And then the fifth pillar I would like to mention is the WASP synthesizer. I’ve owned this WASP synthesizer for ten years. It’s a vintage analog synthesizer from the company Electronic Dreamplant, made in the United Kingdom in 1978. It’s this beautiful yellow and black instrument which was also used by Throbbing Gristle. This instrument was brought to me in the middle of the 1990s by a painter friend who used to play music. I was amazed by these absolutely unearthly and weird sounding little things. It’s very light; it doesn’t even have a real keyboard. It has a sensor keyboard and is very small and powerful. It’s like a dinosaur. So this actually opened the way for me into the games world when I met TERRATOOLS people back in 1999. I played my WASP synthesizer to Klaus Riech, and he said, “Oh! This is something totally different.” The man with the one ear, you know! And my dad, he said to me, “You should do what nobody wants to do or what nobody is able to do.” [...]

[...] I took instrumental tracks that I already had in my archive that had a certain electric quality. I then mashed this music, smeared it out, pitched it, stretched it, and stretched it again before I put it into the Acoustic Mirror and applied all these wrong effects that were not at all meant for music. I would never give the advice, “Oh, just do shitty and crazy things. Use software in the wrong way.” [laughs] You can do this if you can, and if you came a long way like me through analog, it takes a lot of experience. I have my torture instruments that I like to use and know how to use precisely, and I have the blueprint of the theme I want to achieve. This knowledge comes from real experiences. If you want to do some exciting stuff, you have to take risks. Only real risk generates a field. [...]

I wasn't expecting the second interview to be weirder than the first, because I didn't realize how hipster Kane & Lynch is. Fascinating.

Also, I forgot to comment before on the soundtracks. I sat and listened to both while writing this and the music is way better than I remember.

Everything I said about Poulsen applies to Mur x2. Although the 'libtardism' she espouses at a few points (not that offensive considering her a/s/l) is an obstacle (for her as an artist) she's clearly amazed by technology (the gaming industry is made of tranny conservative luddites now, this is largely the issue, that all art/entertainment industries are welfare systems for different kinds of niggers and faggots) and looks at it optimistically, who like Poulsen comes from a history of living interaction with art and a desire to bring this to gaming and advance the medium:

[Image: fc36a5e96a9fac8d7d6b28ab8b8462d5.jpg]

"PUNK'S NOT DEAD"
[Image: 0b065d24f0c9a57c24af80cac8885ba2.jpg]
I started Atelier: Ryza recently. It's an interesting piece of work, completely earnest (beyond the regular level of this in most JRPG characters.) It does a good job of demonstrating the creative process in a way that even children might grasp. A generative piece of work.

The art-style is very pleasant. Crooked little houses. Cute monsters. But when there is an ominous enemy, they do a good job of making it feel out-of-place while still fitting the general theme.

Crafting autism is present and strong. Combat in this one is ATB, but not really with a menu. The speed is fast. The control scheme makes it feel as if you are handling the wheel of a ship in a sense. They did a good job with this, as the camera reinforces the mechanisms.

Music is some of the best I've heard from recent games. Finally, a composer who gives us good, interesting phrases. Nothing over-bearing, nothing obvious, nothing forced. A fairly masterful display, although it is repetitive since the game itself is repetitive. I think this adds to the style of music involved, but it would not work as stand-alone music.

The writing is completely earnest as mentioned. There is an interesting level of acceptance. One character has an alcoholic father who sometimes beats him. He is not really portrayed as a villain, nor as a blameless sap. He is given an accurate description: Someone lacking in Will. The son is told-off when he wallows in self-pity. The answer given to him is: Simply become stronger than your father. An excellent lesson.

The village is full of bug-men, although they are the best sort of bug-men (pleasant.) Still, they lack will. They lack the Will to See. Alchemy disturbs them. The obvious: Technology and luddites. A large theme of the game is "Something from nothing." Which starts when the main character states her desire earnestly. To go on an adventure. She became something from nothing as she pursued this end. As did her companions. The creation of tools, equipment, etc. (alchemy) merely mirrors what the characters are doing.

I recommend if one wants a long, slow-burn JRPG. There are 3 games apparently, I am only at the beginning of the first still.
(05-27-2023, 03:18 PM)Guest Wrote: I started Atelier: Ryza recently. It's an interesting piece of work, completely earnest (beyond the regular level of this in most JRPG characters.) It does a good job of demonstrating the creative process in a way that even children might grasp. A generative piece of work.

The Atelier games have interested me for a while now. I really liked Recettear, which seems at least a bit similar. Now I really want to see the big Koei versions of the premise. Maybe starting with the PS1 game.
(05-27-2023, 10:50 PM)anthony Wrote:
(05-27-2023, 03:18 PM)Guest Wrote: I started Atelier: Ryza recently. It's an interesting piece of work, completely earnest (beyond the regular level of this in most JRPG characters.) It does a good job of demonstrating the creative process in a way that even children might grasp. A generative piece of work.

The Atelier games have interested me for a while now. I really liked Recettear, which seems at least a bit similar. Now I really want to see the big Koei versions of the premise. Maybe starting with the PS1 game.

I had no idea the games stretched back to PS1. I'm interested to see what you find if you do take this route, and I wonder if there are major differences in between the different "versions" of trilogies.



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