Western Cartoons (and animation)

[ꦈꦒꦲꦸꦫꦲꦺꦴꦗ꦳ꦲ]

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🅦🅷🅐🆃 🅳🅞🅴🅢 🅘🆃 🅼🅔🅰🅝 🅣🅾 🅱🅔 🅗🆄🅜🅰🅝? 🆆🅗🅰🅣 🅓🅾🅔🆂 🅸🅣 🅜🅴🅐🅽 🆃🅞 🅗🅰🅥🅴 🅼🅞🆁🅐🅻🅢? 🆃🅞 🅗🅰🅥🅴 🆂🅣🅰🅝🅳🅐🆁🅓🆂? 🅣🅾 🅱🅔 🅐🅽 🅸🅝🅳🅘🆅🅘🅳🅤🅰🅛?

🆃🅗🅴🅢🅴 🅰🅡🅴 🅱🅐🅳 🆃🅞🅳🅐🆈, 🅑🅴🅒🅰🅤🆂🅔 🅓🅸🅢🅾🅑🅴🅓🅸🅔🅽🅣 🅢🅻🅐🆅🅔🆂 🅰🅡🅴 🅽🅞🆃 🆆🅐🅽🅣🅴🅓.

[anthony]

Cool wannabe yellow monkey saw us caring. 



Pretty sure we've already more or less done this, but lets post more about Danny Antonucci because he's great. Just listen to this guy talk. Doesn't he sound more cool and real than anybody working in animation today? Humans used to be allowed to work on this stuff.

[oyakodon_khan]

Why are anvils so common in cartoons? Were blacksmiths really that popular in the 1930s?

[anthony]

Why are anvils so common in cartoons? Were blacksmiths really that popular in the 1930s?

I think when cartoons took off they were still the big heavy solid object in the public mind, and that's a natural comedic device. If cartoons started a few decades later the anvil might have been an office printer or something. Early cartoon days aren't that far off of blacksmith days. My Great Grandfather was one.

[Guest]

Ben Ten(White), Generator Rex(Spic), Jake Long the American Dragon(Chinaman), Slugterra(White(3D)), Max Steel(White(3D)), Static Shock(nigger). 

These are all essential superhero cartoons(excluding the actual super hero ones like Batman Beyond, Justice League, Young Justice, and Teen Titans(Static Shock may be an actual superhero one but it felt distanced from the others)) that feature a young America gaining super powers(In Slugterra they have slugs, but I’m including it for the feeling). I liked all these cartoons as a kid, but even at that tender age I knew they were ZOGGED. I ignored it at the time because of the egalitarian myth of fairness. “I guess black people and Chinese people can have a cartoon character too.” 

All of the cartoons mentioned are inferior works compared to the Japanese for two ostensible reasons: their episodic nature, and the inferior music. Japanese anime series just have better music. Why this is I don’t know, ZOG maybe? Jewish record maker doesn’t want to give white people good music, well I’m glad CD’s are dead you kikes!(there still are a lot of good bands, but I feel Japan, just as it has more animation, has more small bands to make music for them)

But back to the series themselves, I don’t remember the animation being bad or anything like that. Second thing when comparing them to Japanese anime is targeted age demographic. American cartoons are always made to be watchable by kids while a lot of Japanese anime is explicitly made for young men. Some Anime series that I would judge to have the same age demographic as the cartoons stated would be: Zatch Bell!,  Law of Ueki, Yaketaki!! Japan, and Beelzebub. But where are the series made for young men?—Spolier, there aren’t any. It’s either made for kids or 30yo balding guys. Rick & Morty and Smiling Friends were both made for 30yo millennials. I think only 6teen was made for a teen demographic, but that shit doesn’t count. 

Now back to why I made the list of cartoons at the start. I picked them because I’m currently watching A Certain Magical Index. It’s about super powers and Lolis. What struck me when comparing it to the cartoons listed is that it’s obvious those cartoons were made in a board room episode by episode. I feel like this is an inferior method. A Certain Magical Index on the other hand, like a lot of good anime, was based on a Light-novel. This is another place where American cartoons could look to for improvement. When a cartoon is made it’s made to be a cartoon(sounds retarded but keep reading), while an anime is this amalgamation of different sources of media following an already made and popular story. They take the time to make interesting scenes, clothes, and pick great music. The main difference is not effort but passion.

[Guest]

Does anyone remember watching this? Yeah me neither. But it’s important because it was influential enough to receive a cartoon.

The series follows the Humanitarian Environmental (or Ecological, in "Area 51") Analysis Team (or HEAT for short), a research team led by Dr. Nick Tatopoulos (voiced by Ian Ziering) as they battle giant mutant monsters that frequently appear in the wake of the events depicted in the 1998 film Godzilla.

I remember watching it as a kid and enjoying it. But growing up changes you as I did not enjoy watching it this time. Here’s a randomly picked episode:


Getting into it you’ll notice the terrible backgrounds first. Then if you’er still watching you’ll be repulsed by the terrible dialogue, especially with regards to the main characters. The conversation doesn’t flow, it’s rather just a series of their quirky one-liners that fall in line with their characters. Also it felt like there was some kind of speech quota for each character, “the nigger has only said six zingers so far, make him talk some more.” The music is terrible and felt lazily applied. The pace is also too fast, but I can ignore this because this episode was especially rushed, other episode actually do put in the time. 

The only cool thing about this was the giant monster fighting, which is really all the show was made to be. 

The biggest flaw with American cartoons is their episodic nature. Some shows will have multiple writers writing each episode and thus it kind of gets hallowed out and the characters are reduced to caricatures. Furthermore, these individual writers will often times add in a terrible edifying message to give the episode substance. This particular episode doesn’t suffer from this but other do. The episodic formula is for cartoons like Tom and Jerry. There doesn’t need to be a story, but just creative animated violence. Godzilla The Animated Series may only be about epic monsters fighting, but the reoccurring characters make this set up akward. They should have just had Godzilla fighting other monsters on an island, this would have made more sense given its main appeal.

[anthony]

Does anyone remember watching this? Yeah me neither. But it’s important because it was influential enough to receive a cartoon.

I actually remember both. God, what bleak, bleak times those were.

The series follows the Humanitarian Environmental (or Ecological, in "Area 51") Analysis Team (or HEAT for short), a research team led by Dr. Nick Tatopoulos (voiced by Ian Ziering) as they battle giant mutant monsters that frequently appear in the wake of the events depicted in the 1998 film Godzilla.

I remember watching it as a kid and enjoying it. But growing up changes you as I did not enjoy watching it this time. Here’s a randomly picked episode:


Getting into it you’ll notice the terrible backgrounds first. Then if you’er still watching you’ll be repulsed by the terrible dialogue, especially with regards to the main characters. The conversation doesn’t flow, it’s rather just a series of their quirky one-liners that fall in line with their characters. Also it felt like there was some kind of speech quota for each character, “the nigger has only said six zingers so far, make him talk some more.” The music is terrible and felt lazily applied. The pace is also too fast, but I can ignore this because this episode was especially rushed, other episode actually do put in the time. 

The only cool thing about this was the giant monster fighting, which is really all the show was made to be. 

The biggest flaw with American cartoons is their episodic nature. Some shows will have multiple writers writing each episode and thus it kind of gets hallowed out and the characters are reduced to caricatures. Furthermore, these individual writers will often times add in a terrible edifying message to give the episode substance. This particular episode doesn’t suffer from this but other do. The episodic formula is for cartoons like Tom and Jerry. There doesn’t need to be a story, but just creative animated violence. Godzilla The Animated Series may only be about epic monsters fighting, but the reoccurring characters make this set up akward. They should have just had Godzilla fighting other monsters on an island, this would have made more sense given its main appeal.

You know what the comments on being episodic bring to mind? I just started watching The X Files again. I want to post about that at length somewhere later. But for now it just strikes me as an example of Americans doing tv really damn right. Just completely leveraging the form of the medium in a way that plays off its nature. It's consistent and it's episodic in a way that feels typically American, but the production values are high and the whole thing just feels insanely high effort. Twin Peaks showed everyone that tv could be interesting. All it seemed to take was a bit of inspiration and some starting faith in a slightly weird premise that was taken seriously by its own people. 

Two other shows come to mind now. You ever see the Men in Black cartoon? Feels similar to X Files and Godzilla in that it's episodic science fiction.



Was it any good? I don't remember. But I do remember watching it. What a striking intro. If the whole thing were as cool and high effort as this intro it'd probably be great. But I can imagine Americans would hate that (because it's cool and so "scary" and makes you a satanist or whatever) and so it's probably forced to be lame episode to episode.

But you know what isn't forced to be lame but still is? Animation made now. You can say "fuck" and have people die, but America still can't compete with anime on any level.



Look at this. Uglier than the MiB intro (which is if anything trying to be ugly, just stylishly so), with annoying raped theatre kid voice acting, weird unappealing 'toon visual direction these productions insist on (copying anime while trying to look like they're not), the whole thing still feels juvenile despite the death and "fuck"s. The problem seems obvious to me, what it keeps coming back to is that anime is made by people who would be ostracised and brutalised one way or another in America. Twin Peaks and The X Files were little weirdo victories that were only short lived. As were things like Ren & Stimpy, Ed, Edd, n Eddy, and so on.

Some cool sigma who probably really liked Serial Experiments Lain was probably in charge of creating the Men in Black cartoon intro. What kind of person made 'Skull Island'? I imagine some kind of /co/brain with 'only racist towards japan' disease who thinks that they like anime and Japan but also feels an overwhelming desire to correct these things by making them gay. The correcting impulse is key. Start at something that works, a person, an idea, an image, whatever, then people willfully lead us away from what works every time.

Godzilla is Godzilla. He just works. How did he get his crew of retarded quipping nobody sidekicks? That's addition. Somebody looked at Godzilla and due to their own spiritual afflictions had to start correcting. Back then it was weird American vulgar puritanism. Now it's raped theatre kid pastel stalinism. It keeps happening. There's always some kind of faggot trying to ruin everything because they are sick in their souls.

[anthony]

Youtube just told me to watch this. This is solid. The incidental music struck me as very anime. I also like how this generally looks.

Also I watched a couple of minutes of that Godzilla show. Hideous. Really damn ugly and cheap. Men in Black gives me the impression of nerds genuinely trying their best with what they're allowed to do and what they're given. While Godzilla feels like almost pure hackwork. Just depression and getting the job done.

[a system is failing]

Youtube just told me to watch this. This is solid. The incidental music struck me as very anime. I also like how this generally looks.

This is very cool. I wasn't as interested in it as a kid, but there seemed to be a decent number of shows that came out okay doing this heavily comic book'd style. And that Skull Island thing looks terrible of course. Could only handle about 10 or 15 seconds. There's a convergence with western animation taking on the comic book appearance and coming out like anime in a way that feels natural and appealing, versus these theatre kid deviantart faggots having grown up on anime and trying to monstrously hybridize the two styles. Really jarring use of resolution in the very first bit with waves there. Complete crap.



Changing gears, just watched this because of some John K-esque art posted in a chatlog. I really can't compliment Betty Boop enough. It's probably the greatest cartoon ever made. This one is a complete trip and it gets pretty sexy at the end. Fleischer was such a badass for doing this. Some real oddball stuff in here, I like the scenes with the trees in motion and where the Wolf is stepping on the flowers. This era and Fleischer in particular just had a wonserful sense of flow to it that seems more or less unparalleled.

John K has a post about this one too so I'll alow him to do some of the talking...

[Svevlad]

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🆃🅷🅴🆁🅴 🅰🆁🅴🅽'🆃 🅴🆅🅴🅽 🅲🅰🆁🆃🅾🅾🅽🆂 🅽🅾🆆.

So true, Unicodebro! Imo, Steven Universe is the prototypical modern Western "cartoon". It`s preachy and moralistic, "queer coded", uses an obnoxious animation style that is reminiscent of those shitty infographs that you can find on womens` instagram stories, and seems like its target audience is small children when you first watch it, though it quickly becomes clear that it`s actually for norwooding, soy imbibing man-children who are drawn to this sort of thing and who feel comforted by its wholesome chungus "vibes". Watch Cartoon Network and this becomes immediately obvious - nearly every show in their repertoire that isn`t a re-run of some older show is like this.

The cartoons that preceded Steven Universe and set the stage for its meteoric rise in popularity amongst the normgroids were what we might call "weird cartoons", a category that includes shows like Adventure Time and Regular Show. The former played a huge role in all this imo, as it had the sorts of wholesome chungus moments that would come to define in Steven Universe and its successors sprinkled throughout the series and was big amongst early 2010s Tumblrinas. In turn, the two aforementioned shows can be traced back to older "weird cartoons" like The Marvelous Misadventures of Flapjack and Chowder (which did not have as many, if any, of these wholesome chungus moments and thus weren`t the basis for weird Tumblr fanfictions and things). None of this is to say that the creators of these shows were in privity with one another and coordinated this change in cartoons or even were even conscious of the fact that they had taken inspiration from one another (though maybe some of them were, I don`t know enough about the relationship between these shows` writers and whether or not there was any overlap between their "teams").

Even then, with the wholesome chungusic "vibes," faggotcoding and general insufferability, the reason why Steven Universe was so controversial back in it's day, despite there being newer cartoons now that are far more blatantly faggotcoal, and never achieving the same level of controversy, is due to something a bit more obscured by the shoveling of libtardism: the "vibe" doesn't fit the fundamental story. It's basically a libtarded remake of something good that never actually existed. 

Think about the plot for a second - little Steven is a Sensitive Young Man who overcomes extremely dangerous circumstances and events far beyond his control by pure charisma and joie de vivre, eventually going so far as to put his foot down and tell the entire intergalactic giga-longhouse matriarchy to go back to the kitchen with "mansplaining" and a corny joke. The hyperwokes hated it because of this exact reason. Every time Steven "redeems" a character, it's by being subtly extremely patronizing, handguiding them into the correct behavior like a father would a small child. Heck, in the sequel miniseries, there's even an instance of what can be interpreted easily as rape correction by anyone who has the will to see. Where the mainstream praised it as a peaceful wholesome chungus queer show, the woke hated it for basically portraying women as infantile retards who can be manipulated by a couple of well placed words. Once again, the Woke were more correct than the Mainstream.

[anthony]

Even then, with the wholesome chungusic "vibes," faggotcoding and general insufferability, the reason why Steven Universe was so controversial back in it's day, despite there being newer cartoons now that are far more blatantly faggotcoal, and never achieving the same level of controversy, is due to something a bit more obscured by the shoveling of libtardism: the "vibe" doesn't fit the fundamental story. It's basically a libtarded remake of something good that never actually existed. 

Think about the plot for a second - little Steven is a Sensitive Young Man who overcomes extremely dangerous circumstances and events far beyond his control by pure charisma and joie de vivre, eventually going so far as to put his foot down and tell the entire intergalactic giga-longhouse matriarchy to go back to the kitchen with "mansplaining" and a corny joke. The hyperwokes hated it because of this exact reason. Every time Steven "redeems" a character, it's by being subtly extremely patronizing, handguiding them into the correct behavior like a father would a small child. Heck, in the sequel miniseries, there's even an instance of what can be interpreted easily as rape correction by anyone who has the will to see. Where the mainstream praised it as a peaceful wholesome chungus queer show, the woke hated it for basically portraying women as infantile retards who can be manipulated by a couple of well placed words. Once again, the Woke were more correct than the Mainstream.

I haven't seen it, but it sounds like Steven Universe may have been an early case of Weird Woman Shit clashing with Troonshit, with the knights observing from the wings not being able to tell the two apart.

This is on my mind because in a group I absorbed a playthrough of Goodbye Volcano High. I was looking into it as we were going. Development history and stuff, and I believe that this struggle was playing out behind the scenes and is responsible for how it ultimately turned out. In that particular case an insufficiently reformed 2000s Weird Internet Woman was purged for her Weird Internet Woman Shit, and her project was then taken from her and recycled into troonshit. A story I would like to investigate further and tell at some point.

And I just asked someone who's seen Steven Universe about what's going on there. Impression I get is that it's not a masculine work, but it is outdated. "Love and understanding" rather than "kill everyone who isn't us".

[Guest]

I agree, let me make a defense against myself for Nickelodeon— SpongeBob is based, and it's spiritually a Cartoon Network show.

Hillenburg is definitely an admirable character and the earlier run of Spongebob prior to its deacent into a cash cow is one of the few redeeming things to grace Nick, the other being Invader Zim. There is a lot of interesting backstory to Spongebob's creation and his choice to have a marine-themed cartoon which really drove home to me that "thoughtful" aspect. The key ingredient all things of worth.

Sadly, everyone knows SpongeBob stopped being watchable after his departure. Years ago when I was in high school, I was unfortunate enough to catch a glimpse at some special ed class, and lo and behold they had one of the then-current episodes on for the tards in there. Truly a repulsive sight.

[Guest]

https://i.ibb.co/80TC8tM/Untitled.png

"These WEEBS don't know what REAL aesthetic taste is! Like me, a repulsive aberration raised on Teen Titans and Avatar's dollar store-anime aesthetics and freakish furry content!"

[Guest]

Recently watched Batman Year One

Movie opens with worst monologue I have ever heard. Then we get a shot of the city from above that is just terrible. Most of the urban background is done terribly. The only redeeming background scenes are of the snowy forest in winter. 

The animation at first really annoyed me as it felt off. The only redeeming movement are the fight scenes. 


The overall pacing is confusing and the plot sucks. The criminals are made too sympathetic while the cops and oligarchs are made to be the real villains. It has a lot of leftist overtones. It’s just a very unsatisfying movie. A lot of the scenes and dialogue were executed poorly. Also, the most important critique of this work is the lack of sexy women. Cat woman looks like a Mexican dyke.


The only good part was when the this beefy blonde guy randomly jumps out of the car to beat up this random nigger whom was on the street. This was supposed to show how bad of a guy he was. 

[JohnTrent]

Recently watched Batman Year One
[...]

What you said in this post wasn't so surprising. I was guessing when reading it that the film deviates from Frank Miller's own work and that he wasn't involved with it in the slightest. As I searched for the adaptation, this guess was confirmed. A lot of the members involved with this seem to have long histories relating to DC. Some involved are notable because they worked on a Batman Beyond related movie (pertinent to a few replies above), while others seem to have had their start with late 00s cartoons like Ben10, or later worked on the Teen Titans Go show. I couldn't imagine the final product to be very coherent.

Interestingly enough, one of the directors for this adaptation was involved with a CGI show about Starship Troopers called "Roughnecks: Starship Troopers Chronicles". Since the Men in Black animation was mentioned, it's noteworthy that Richard Raynes, Duane Capizzi, and Jeff Kline were also associated with the Starship Troopers project along with the Men in Black show.



I am going to be completely candid and say I don't really enjoy the appearance of CGI here. When comparing it to anthony's example of the Biohazard 3D short film (which, by the way, I have to thank him for mentioning it because I first saw it when I was ~11 and forgot about it), there's a comparative lack of self-restraint in the Starship Troopers series. I watched about ten minutes of the first episode on YouTube and attempted to scrutinize the details.


An unfortunate case of Toy Story faces.

I cannot fault them too much, as you can see below:

The show was produced by Columbia TriStar Television and Sony Pictures for daily television syndication and ended its run of a single season with a cliffhanger instead of a proper series finale.

Though originally planned for 2-D animation, Sony contracted Foundation Imaging to produce the episodes with 3-D computer animation. Since Foundation was unable to keep up with the production schedule, Flat Earth Productions were involved with creating episodes 12 and 13, Hyper Image with 20 to 22, and Rainbow Studios with 23 to 25.

The show was originally intended to be 2-D and, once Sony got involved, that began an outbreak of chaos which affected the vision of the show. It is almost a certainty that the 2-D version would have been superior.

[Guest]

The French could have created European Sailor Moon instead of this garbage.

[cats]

Miraculous Ladybug is probably one of the better looking shows the West has put out in the last fifty years because the French allow their character designs to actually look appealing, Pixar face syndrome aside.

[Recent Friend]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFkwVZpMSqY

[FlyWithYou]

The French could have created European Sailor Moon instead of this garbage.

I want to fuck both of them. This is good character design.

[a system is failing]

The French could have created European Sailor Moon instead of this garbage.

It sucks, but it at least passes the John K test. Which I think we can always rely on the French for thankfully. One of their most respectable traits.