Amarna Forum

We all know and have thoughts on kiwifarms. The site that built its name and format on observing, documenting (and less officially, interacting with) Chris-Chan. It's probably bigger and better than ever, as it turns out that the Chris Chan following model is extremely popular and appealing and can be expanded outward to just about anybody using the internet.

So the questions for this thread are, what is the chris chan model (or what are these people doing in general when they have a thread on a person), who does that appeal to, and why does it appeal to them?

I've suggested many times that something I'd like to be done here is a kind of benign kiwifarms. I like the idea of studying and keeping track of interesting people online. But is that what Chris Chan study was about? Do you get the impression that that's what a single kiwifarms thread is doing? There's observation and cataloguing on Kiwifarms, but I think you'll find that it always takes on an offensive character. Or maybe it'd be more appropriate to say aggressive. It's all about dirt-piling. It's never done because someone is liked. At most they are considered a benign kind of freakish one can make sympathetic gestures towards (how I imagine most of the internet saw Terry Davis, sort of like a white male equivalent to the movie 'Precious').

The Chris Chan following has always had a problem with attracting casual sadism. People are attracted to observing human failure because it can be spun into a kind of justifying and affirming image for the world as you see it. "He deserves it because...". At its worst I believe that Kiwifarms attracts people interested in behaving like Chinese people at a zoo. They want to throw rocks at the lazy, spoiled animals until they die.

Also there are lots of women on kiwifarms. There are sections of the site devoted to studying literal who characters no man will ever come across in a million years of internet use from the girlnet, but women love studying male celebrities too. Women just love celebrity and controversy. If there are eyes on someone or something, they'll be privately conspiring about it. As many have said, Kiwifarms is where many formerly private bad impulses of humanity can now meet, be affirmed, and snowball. This used to be local annoying bitch behaviour, then we upgraded to gossip rags and tabloids, now we're here. Online gangs going through peoples' virtual garbage to fuel their hate-parties and occasionally if they find something real good, try to organise a show-trial to get that person exiled to internet-siberia.

I really don't have too much direction here, we all want to talk already. I'll leave it to the rest of you now. Three questions to get us going.

What are they doing? Who is into this? What is the appeal to them?

The lolcow dot farm forum is far worse when it comes to brigading literally who tier people over mundane shit, particularly /snow/.
And unlike kiwifarms, its 100% women. Well, we know any all-female forum will eventually get shat up by troons but I digress. 
They even have threads where they try to dig up lolcows from members personal lives, not even the typical internet punching bags:
https://lolcow.farm/snow/res/1874504.html

The enforcement of normative standards is pleasurable for those who derive their worth from conforming to normative standards.

"I am a good person, so I deserve to be happy"

A quote of my mother, heard often while she whined loudly about the unjustness of the universe. Why did other people get nice things? Why didn't she? Kiwifarms exists as a collective embodiment of that spirit - failure to properly conform is taken as a personal transgression at the standards themselves and the artifice that enables their self-valuations. Good deserves reward, transgression punishment, and the enactment of ritualistic mocking is cathartic method by which they manifest the reality of their truths. This is not the whole of the pathology though -

What is Nietzsche's pathos of distance when it becomes tumorous? When there is no higher left to strive for? At least, nothing within the obtainable. If you are carried across life by a repulsion of the bottom and a latent terror at the sight of the ocean floor --- then what remains to you? Can you will ugliness uglier that you may seem more beautiful by its murky half-light?

There are two sorts of "lolcows." The first type is a usually mentally disabled and/or drug-riddled maniac who poses a threat to others. These people in the spotlight because they are a sheer spectacle of depravity. I assume these types have the same appeal as normie true crime: psuedo-sadistic mixed with dark fascination.

The second type is more interesting to me. This is the pathetic e-celebrity, usually a fat lump with a poor relationship with his (or her, but usually his) peers. One of the most popular Lolcows is a man by the name of BossManJack, a man who's "crime" is being an extreme gambling addict. The people who post in these threads have to pretend that they are doing so out of some moral high ground, and not because they want to see a failure fail again. In reality, many of these Cows are only marginally worse off than the Kiwifarmers themselves.

I do have to respect Null for keeping the website alive, even if I don't care for the forum itself.

LoIiMerchant Wrote:There are two sorts of "lolcows." The first type is a usually mentally disabled and/or drug-riddled maniac who poses a threat to others. These people in the spotlight because they are a sheer spectacle of depravity. I assume these types have the same appeal as normie true crime: psuedo-sadistic mixed with dark fascination.

The second type is more interesting to me. This is the pathetic e-celebrity, usually a fat lump with a poor relationship with his (or her, but usually his) peers. One of the most popular Lolcows is a man by the name of BossManJack, a man who's "crime" is being an extreme gambling addict. The people who post in these threads have to pretend that they are doing so out of some moral high ground, and not because they want to see a failure fail again. In reality, many of these Cows are only marginally worse off than the Kiwifarmers themselves.

I do have to respect Null for keeping the website alive, even if I don't care for the forum itself.

Sure, those are the "lolcow" types I suppose, but what I find striking is how venomous the threads about ordinary online figures are. I never watched his videos but Knut Hamsen (edit: his name is Fredrik Knudsen, why would I think I would know this without looking it up?), the 'Down the Rabbit Hole' guy. His thread was recently brought to my attention. He's kind of interesting himself as a guy who made a professional and detached refinement of what kiwifarms does. Their thread on him just seems to be digging through his trash and his fairly unremarkable personal life and seething. This pattern seems to hold for basically everyone who has gotten famous online or done anything of note.

You get people stalking you as hard as if you're Taylor Swift, while you don't have Taylor Swift's money or ability to punish people. As a friend recently said, being internet famous seems to have all the downsides of old celebrity with almost none of the upsides.

As I said on the shoutbox, KF’s targets tend to be social and biological detritus. Trannies, zoophiles, and the truly pathetic.

KF does not of course go out its way to find people to make fun of. These people paint a target on their backs by posting their depravity and stupidity online.

In fact, at least in one case I observed-a “lol cow” was told to log off and delete his account. He kept on trying to justify himself and his ideas, to an audience that saw him(correctly) as a fat failed loser. And in true compassion, he was told if he wanted the mockery to stop-it was on him to disengage.

(Now he’s a member in good standing).

No one forces a fat tranny to make fools of themselves on the internet. No one forces someone who struggles with severe obesity or autism to post every waking second of their life.

When they make themselves objects of a spectacle, they reap the whirlwind. Some of KF’s targets no doubt need and could benefit from genuine help. Others just need a baseball bat to the skull.

One can argue it’s still wrong or some sort of indictment to bully or take advantage of such individuals. But when in the entire history of man, has the freak and human zoo exhibit not been mocked? 

I would say the solution is very simple-let’s say you do have severe autism, or you are just weird and liable to attract hostile attention-you could just…not use the internet. Or at least keep yourself as anonymous as possible. 

I don’t think “bullying to toughen out the nerds” is good or laudable, I do however think that strange behavior and anti social characters make their lives worse when they draw attention to themselves. Chris Chan would get far less attention if he didn’t post every single day of his life. For people to rip apart. 

I’m in fact quite compassionate to those with Asperger’s or who otherwise suffer in today’s shit society-and sometimes yes, KF goes after broken and ruined minds like wolves after a deer. 

But cruelty is innate, and ostracism and abuse towards the unfamiliar and the despised natural. 

It is not the responsibility of KFers or anyone else to make themselves invisible if they will be attacked. Be a disgusting troon, draw furry art, beg patreon simps for money while weighing more than a full grown pig-and the wolves will be at your throat.

If you don’t want that to happen, you are not obligated to make yourself a spectacle on the internet, and inevitably have fruit thrown at you.

(01-22-2024, 11:40 PM)The Green Groyper Wrote: [ -> ]In fact, at least in one case I observed-a “lol cow” was told to log off and delete his account. He kept on trying to justify himself and his ideas, to an audience that saw him(correctly) as a fat failed loser. And in true compassion, he was told if he wanted the mockery to stop-it was on him to disengage.

[...]

No one forces someone who struggles with severe obesity or autism to post every waking second of their life.

When they make themselves objects of a spectacle, they reap the whirlwind.

It's amazing that you're able to type this out this despite clearly having never self-reflected on any of it. Or maybe it isn't.

august Wrote:

The Green Groyper Wrote:In fact, at least in one case I observed-a “lol cow” was told to log off and delete his account. He kept on trying to justify himself and his ideas, to an audience that saw him(correctly) as a fat failed loser. And in true compassion, he was told if he wanted the mockery to stop-it was on him to disengage.

[...]

No one forces someone who struggles with severe obesity or autism to post every waking second of their life.

When they make themselves objects of a spectacle, they reap the whirlwind.

It's amazing that you're able to type this out this despite clearly having never self-reflected on any of it. Or maybe it isn't.

Thankfully for me, I’m capable of rather extreme degrees of compartmentalization and conscious cognitive dissonance.

Kiwifarmers are secondhand normie sadists. They themselves are only barely better off than the "LOLcows" they stalk, as others have mentioned here, but instead of tempering their sadism, it only compels them to be twice as vicious. The cool nigger in my head will approvingly nod my direction if I make it clear that I'm not a total freak like that guy, you see.

I browsed the website briefly, probably around eight years ago. The above was my takeaway. Even back then, it was full of women and furries, which struck me as odd considering the subject matter. There is nothing of interest to a man in the "fashioncow" section of the website, and seeing non-furry avatars in the furry section was like seeing a white hart, despite the fact that this section was ostensibly for denigrating them. A young woman was banned from the forum after she admitted to fantasizing about her cartoon lion characters (which she used as avatars) fucking each other during a public discussion. This same young woman had spent almost all of her time in various furry "LOLcow“ threads, denouncing them for their assorted "weird", anti-social behaviors.

I don't bring this up because I think Kiwifarms being full of perverts with outlandish fetishes is an epic, Freudian zinger — and it certainly is full of perverts, among whom cartoon lion sex is relatively tame and respectable as far as fetishes go — but because it sticks out to me as characteristic of the Kiwifarms mindset I described above. Most Kiwifarms posts read like pleading appeasement to the phantasm of the mental cool nigger who always sees whenever someone is not having a normal one. Perhaps this young woman thought she had made enough offerings to the cool nigger to allow for being open and honest with her peers? Too bad, lady. The cool nigger spares no one. Every user who makes lots of posts on Kiwifarms inevitably has a thread made about them — and justifiably so, going by the internal logic of the community.

As an aside, I could've sworn that Steve Sailer, of all people, talked about how Kiwifarms has gradually become more and more female as time has gone on "like all gossip sites", but I can't find the Tweet now.

The Green Groyper Wrote:As I said on the shoutbox, KF’s targets tend to be social and biological detritus. Trannies, zoophiles, and the truly pathetic.

Let's leave this line of argumentation alone for a moment. I think that you responded to what I said in the shoutbox without really considering my point. Your reactivity is understandable; you're being attacked on all sides.

Let's grant that their targets are truly contemptible. What does it say about the KF user that they spend their time obsessing over these people? What's the difference between a KF user and a reality TV viewer? I'm familiar with Chris Chan. I've looked through Mikey Miles' IG account. I've seen Keffal's tweets. What benefit would it be to me to keep up on their affairs? Why should I watch them suffer? I don't like to dwell on these people. What drives a KF superuser to immerse themselves in the dregs of humanity? This is what I meant by "spiritual sickness." A philia for the base and disgusting.

The Green Groyper Wrote:I do however think that strange behavior and anti social characters make their lives worse when they draw attention to themselves.

Yes, I do. But I try anyway because I believe in some people.

Quote:I’m in fact quite compassionate to those with Asperger’s or who otherwise suffer in today’s shit society-and sometimes yes, KF goes after broken and ruined minds like wolves after a deer.

No they go after them like cunty women after a man who disregards social norms which favour them. You are not a pack of wolves. You're a gaggle of retarded women.

The best case i can parse out of your post is that you believe that you are giving negative attention to attention-seekers, and so kind of giving them a fitting punishment. Discernment and judgement they can't handle. But even then, why make a fight of it? Why the active seething? Is this what superiority looks like? Maybe certain people are interesting, examples of broader social phenomena, or particularly harmful to the online noosphere. Whatever the case, at which point does going through their trash and wasting spleen actively hating them start making sense?

I've said many times that I'd like a kiwifarms which is detached, and studious. I believe that the most important difference between us and them which would lead to a different, and better form of discourse is distance.

For example, my post from Amarna1 about the youtuber 'Sphere Hunter'. I am not mad at Sphere Hunter's existence. I had only learned of their existence briefly before that thread and so they were a very handy example fresh in my mind for the discussion at hand, which was not about Sphere Hunter. I have no strong thoughts or feelings on the character but that post still circulates. We have not maintained a years long ongoing study of this person's trash or internet history. I wrote a one-off post about a meme and general class of social phenomena, tying Sphere Hunter in incidentally, and now this post still circulates around the internet to this day and remains the cutting writing on this now-celebrity despite years of weirdos looking closer and harder than I did. That piece of writing is probably the single greatest threat to Sphere Hunter's reputation and celebrity now, which I think is actually kind of a shame as I don't wish destruction on people in that way. SH is just a meme-brained junk-critic like everyone else on youtube. I will eventually destroy them all by restoring the video game science.

I doubt any of you remember, one of the last amarna1 threads before its destruction was my attempting a benign and detached kiwifarms starter. I wanted to discuss Jaime Mantzel with people. An brilliant outsider type who lives off-grid in the caribbean. Like Terry Davis but with a firm grip on his wits.

https://www.youtube.com/@JMEMantzel/featured

There might not even be too much to say. He's just a character I was interested in sharing. We could just see what would come of looking. I believe that through doing so we could hit upon any number of interesting memorable thoughts. While for all of its dedication and energy, has kiwifarms ever produced a lasting thought or observation of note about humanity? Or is it only appreciated and remembered as a participatory phenomena? A social game you join into.

Beyond that of course there's regular use as an archive of information. I think there's some value in that, especially for legendary figures such as Chris Chan. But how many people just want to study and appreciate, and how many are showing up to play the game? The correct way to do all of this of course is to not have the game. People interested in humanity should be the ones having these discussions. Distance and superiority and a feel for the humanities can go anywhere. While an active hostility towards individuals is just going to produce ugly woman-aggression (social violence) and piles of hoarded trash.

Oh and of course, it didn't even occur to me but I'm doing this with dbdr here. I find Kiwifarms upsetting because I like studying and discussing people, but they do not. They are not above social phenomena. They are a social phenomena. The dbdr thread might not be great, but it's brought a lot out of people. By watching him we're watching the world and ourselves, which I think is the correct way to do this. That's what I believe all of this on kiwifarms should be and isn't.

LoIiMerchant Wrote:I do have to respect Null for keeping the website alive, even if I don't care for the forum itself.

I also don't have much respect for Kiwifarms' userbase or culture either, but I want to talk more about the point made in this quote, despite it being a bit of a tangent from the rest of the thread. I hardly visit the site and at this point I've probably read more about the struggle to keep Kiwifarms alive than about lolcows themselves. Troon drama aside, the severity of the attacks Kiwifarms received both publicly and behind the scenes, was totally unwarranted given the site's generally mild content, and some of the censorship methods used have no precedent. To me, Kiwifarms' continued existence is a symbol of online freedom and I salute Null for his valiance and determination in keeping the site online. Lesser web administrators frequently fold after receiving copyright takedown requests, subpoenas, or a ToS termination from their hosting provider, if they don't have time to deal with it. This very forum experienced such an event in recent history. I've seen some hobbyist sysadmins of file hosts publicly share the numerous emails they receive and dutifully attend to, but I cannot recall encountering another sysadmin who has challenged such an powerful threat as the Total Kiwifarms Annihilation campaign, and won*.

Kiwifarms was first dropped by Cloudflare, a privilege that had previously been reserved only for The Daily Stormer and 8chan, and while I do not think either should have been dropped, the content hosted by each was far more objectionable than Kiwifarms. This happened during a period of heavy DDOS attacks, and Cloudflare refusing to protect Kiwifarms effectively took the site offline. Kiwifarms stayed down intermittently while making some ineffectual efforts to fight the attacks, at times being only accessible by TOR, but eventually triumphed, implementing a self hosted anti-DDOS solution.

Following this, multiple Tier 1 ISPs (of which there are only a few dozen globally) blocked access to Kiwifarms, an unprecedented and bold act of political censorship. Up until now, these sorts of takedown campaigns had been limited to messaging domain registrars and server hosting providers. Null fought to successfully contest most of these blocks, but currently they remain blocked by Cogent, the third-largest Tier 1 ISP (sort of) globally.

Kiwifarms has also had multiple domain names seized. I think they've been at least .st, .pl, .hk variously, and the original kiwifarms.net domain was recently seized by a domain registrar that was supposed to be on their side. They've also been kicked off by multiple hosting providers. I think Null may also be fighting a legal battle but I haven't read much about that part.

Even though it might appear as if you have the freedom to set up and run any website you want so long as it doesn't break laws, if your website becomes too large or offends the wrong people, the system can set in motion these sorts of legally grey schemes to destroy it via many upstream services which websites depend on. At first some Twitter campaign might seem like an annoyance, but should it escalate, parrying these multifarious bureaucratic weapons quickly begins to feel exhausting and pointless.

The tactics they use such as screenshotting one fedpost out of context before it's deleted by moderators, and then claiming it is representative of the whole site, or merely slandering the site in news articles and blaming it for events it played no part in, then proceeding to contact every internet company involved up to the very top of the ISP hierarchy, are expressions of pure ideological domination. Obviously, the same standards are not applied to the companies that run every other mainstream social media website, all of which have also "been linked to" countless mass shootings and harassment campaigns, because these companies have a sodomy department, fly the sin flag, and burn 1% of their revenue in the name of gay nigger empowerment.

Kiwifarms also got hacked at one point, Null has been fully doxxed this entire time as he navigates this mess, but nothing can stop him from hosting his gossip website. First they came for Kiwifarms, but they failed. Hail Joshua Moon.

As Pigsaw has put it several times, the Kiwifarms that the site's enemies have in mind when they try to destroy it is cool. It gets attacked because it's seen as a scary, masculine thing. A psychotic hate-terrorist training ground producing psychos who want to turn the whole world into the spiritual domain of Hitler. While of course in reality, kiwifarms is basically host to exactly the same kind of person who will attack kiwifarms. These people are not quite but just about friendly firing. Normalfag-aspirant south park libertarians and cunty women addicted to online celebrity content have a lot more in common with Keffals than this place or "anime twitter" or whatever else fuels the nightmares of Keffals.

Really the fact kiwifarms is attacked so hard should be studied harder. What specifically does fuel the nightmares of Keffals (beyond exposure of his financial crimes and interpersonal cruelty)? Of course Keffals is the key attacker, and Keffals was just an obviously and mundanely corrupt individual leveraging political privilege to kick their asses and cover his own. How strong and coherent is the principled war against Kiwifarms? I might actually go as far as to suggest that there isn't one, and it's just the focused energy of certain targeted individuals, who are able to leverage superficially ideological forces against kiwifarms. Creating a false image of political martyrdom which is actual just an accrual of personal retard slapfights.

The main route for defense of Kiwifarms I see is “Well, these people are bad, don’t you want to punish these Wrong people?”

But the Kiwifarms hivemind doesn’t go after world ruiners like genetic criminals or video essayists, they go after people that have bad gameplay, people that are poorly written. And it’s not like they’re killing these people in the cold of the night, their punishment is more like making a collaborative thematic analysis of fanfiction characters than justice or hygiene. The thing I’d say is closest to a Kiwifarms thread is an hours long video analysis of Yiik TEARING DOWN Alex for the sheer number of storytelling rules he doesn't follow, but applied to a real person.



It makes sense that the standards their targets are compared to are vague, rarely mentioned, and presented as objective when the goal is a Group Project to frame observation of anthropomorphized Bad Webcomic Wiki pages as adversarially as possible.



Kiwifarms is a sort of iteration on Counter Strike or a Tabletop Roleplaying Game, one entirely in the direction of unpleasantness, punishment, and rule following. Instead of an AK you have social norms that women invented, and instead of diffusing a bomb or killing goblins you and your party of amazing rule followers beat on a 9 million HP “lolcow” for zero xp and maybe a glorious Loot Drop that reminds you how lucky you are to have not been born so weird as to disallow participation. Something built on thuggish sadism (Women) rather than taste must constantly self-affirm that it is Elite.

The most charitable summary of Kiwifarmers I can offer is that they’re terrible historical fanfiction writers that build downwards in order to keep in line with the primary theme (Filth) of their subject matter.

𝕿𝖍𝖎𝖘 𝖎𝖘 𝖜𝖍𝖆𝖙 𝖜𝖊 𝖉𝖔 𝖎𝖓 𝕳𝖊𝖆𝖛𝖊𝖓, 𝖜𝖊 𝖇𝖚𝖎𝖑𝖉 𝕳𝖎𝖌𝖍𝖊𝖗:

Anthony has defended the idea of a detached KF, one that’s genuinely interested in humanity. This is admirable and consistent with a kind of affectionate cruelty. Chris Chan is a fascinating human being worth studying for his own sake. Or maybe study is too clinical a word — Chris Chan is worth appreciating as a unique specimen, an honest-to-God individual. It is also funny when trolls persuade him to upload videos of himself in blackface, or when Bob worries about losing the family home because of Chris’s too-revealing tour. To take delight in someone’s suffering is undeniably cruel, but doesn’t have to come from a desire to punish. It can be rooted in sincere appreciation for Chris. The gods don’t hate or even despise Hephaestus — they love him.

Someone like Liquid is a more active example of this kind of cruelty. He’s lighthearted; he doesn’t seethe; he knows how far to take things. He’s neither a sadist like Blue Spike nor a moralfag trying to “improve” Chris. He mocks Chris, but clearly enjoys him. You could argue that his trolling gets in the way of detached appreciation, but he also pushes Chris to reveal himself so the rest of us can understand him better. We wouldn’t have nearly as much material without the early trolls. 

Is Chris sick? He’s certainly not an example of human flourishing. But at least he’s interesting. He’s sick as an artist is sick, though without the intelligence or skill to turn that sickness into something beautiful in its own right. Green Groyper says he should never have been born. But the world would be duller without him; something new, however stunted, would be lost. What would we lose if the KF people vanished tomorrow? If Chris is sick, the average KF user is botched.

Quote:They themselves are only barely better off than the "LOLcows" they stalk, as others have mentioned here, but instead of tempering their sadism, it only compels them to be twice as vicious. The cool nigger in my head will approvingly nod my direction if I make it clear that I'm not a total freak like that guy, you see.

If only there were a word for this phenomenon.

This thread has confirmed my suspicion(and my fear) that Amarnites are reacting emotionally-projecting their idea of the “man against time” or “sensitive young man” on KF’s subjects.

As I’ve repeatedly tried to convey, this is a false projection.

In a better world, with no death fats, trannies, or zoophiles KF would not need to exist.

But we don’t live in that world-so it does.

People here acting like Lucas Sorrenti or Chris Chan are noble souls and not degenerate rot vomited from the internet zeitgeist are just wrong.

The Green Groyper Wrote:This thread has confirmed my suspicion(and my fear) that Amarnites are reacting emotionally-projecting their idea of the “man against time” or “sensitive young man” on KF’s subjects.

As I’ve repeatedly tried to convey, this is a false projection.

In a better world, with no death fats, trannies, or zoophiles KF would not need to exist.

But we don’t live in that world-so it does.

People here acting like Lucas Sorrenti or Chris Chan are noble souls and not degenerate rot vomited from the internet zeitgeist are just wrong.

An accusation of projection and lazy thinking looks rather stupid when you don't quote or name anybody. It's very easy to stand tall and proud against anything you address as "you", "they", "people". In your head you might not even be meaning to, but you're probably scanning this thread for vindication of the worst possible interpretation you already have in mind and then are responding to that. This post is pointless. If this is all you're going to bother with just leave the thread alone.

The projection accusation is when you are totally out of things to accuse the opponent of. It's one of the easiest things to accuse someone of doing. Because in haphazard logic, if someone understands why someone would think a certain way, they are also thinking that way.

I understand all I am really doing is reenforcing the topics already stated previously, but I find it interesting the more vicious the farms is towards a certain subject, the more the site users themselves seem to have in common with them. I can think of Ethan Ralph as the easiest example, where a large set of comments regarding him have to do with his weight. Null and I can only assume many of those who frequently discuss Ralph, are themselves incredibly overweight, but that does not deter Null from committing large sections of his livestreams to the topic. Kiwi Farmers acts as the next generation's Something Awful Goons who are obsessed with "shoving nerds into lockers" and other strange social power plays that especially fall flat on the internet.

Semi-unrelated but there was a video circulating several months ago regarding a lolcow podcast. From what I gathered from the clip I saw, it involved 3 lolcows who recorded the first segment of the show, while several Kiwi Farms adjacent commentators would critique or make fun of what the cows said on the show. The most interesting part of the whole display was seeing how similar the cows and the farmers fared from an appearance standpoint, with all of them being obese.

As I glimpse through this thread, most of my general thoughts are scattered through the replies. I also run the risk of repeating things already mentioned in the Troll's Remorse thread (I do plan on posting in that thread again at some point, provided that 24/7 IRL distractions die down for a time), but it's near-unavoidable at this point since some here have established a connection between Keffals and the KF user. Really we can conclude that, among certain issues discussed on the site, from Troll's Remorse to the doxxing controversy of TCOAL, we've been orbiting around the issue of antisocial/brown online activity. Here is a short list of general characteristics I have made about this species of user, with one additional category about the remorseful moralfag. Again, this is short and probably will be expanded upon in the future.

Quote:

---

BASIC CHARACTERISTICS:

---

1. Rather than remaining dispassionate in the face of the observed subject, the observer expresses an unconventional interest in the subject's habits or behavior.

2. The observer has a reaction which isn't proportionate to their subject.

3. The observer's focus is directed to impersonal subjects. They will never meet the subject unless if they are a) a strong online presence or b) an A-Log.

4. The act of observation becomes a routine habit for the user. If a cessation of the act occurs, it is because the user has become inactive or their interest is redirected to another subject.

5. The choice of the subject is not often decided by the individual user: it must require some form of consensus before collective observation can begin, and a user submitting a new subject must use persuasion to garner attention. It is arguable that a subject is submitted only because they are reminiscent of previous "lolcows".

6. The observer is motivated to continue his routine because of perceived character faults. A short list of some faults:

A) The subject has discussed deviant sexual tastes on record, or is practicing said tastes in real life.
B) They have attached themselves to online controversies of some kind. 
C) This reason is vague enough to include anything from aggressive statements to "being annoying on the Internet".
D) They are mentally ill or are prone to eccentric behaviors.
E) They are "Internet celebrities" and therefore must be discussed. This also explains why sites like Salo Forum were once given threads on the site, and now have become a thread to discuss Tunis Bay and this place. 

7. It is exceedingly uncommon for the user to find themselves unjustified when observing a subject. The perceived character flaw is enough to guarantee their interest, and the user is compelled on occasion to explain their habit from a moral standpoint.

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THE MORAL POSTER CHARACTERISTICS:

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1. Even if we assume the Moral Poster is an imposture, the user is liable to believe it at some point.

2. The Moral Poster is energized by what they consider to be immoral people. In this sense they are attentive towards people, phenomena, or things they consider "gross" or "unclean". They are driven to discussing these matters at irregular length. They have a tendency to borrow the word "degenerate" for these purposes.

3. More often than not, the Moral Poster has been inspired by guilt (Troll's Remorse). They have changed themselves into observers and commentators, preferring to remain in this state of being.

4. The Moral Poster usually operates in tandem with current morality, which ties back to the problem of guilt. There are even occasions where such a poster is shocked at racism. Here is an example:

5. Because they are inspired by guilt and because current standards of morality have a bearing on their character, their form of Moral Posting could very well become attacks against the Right. This will be masqueraded with post hoc explanations.

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If you're still following me at this point, you may remember that connection mentioned earlier between Keffals and KF. At this point, I'm responding to anthony's recommendation about studying the attack on KiwiFarms.

I'll post what I said in the Troll's Remorse thread:

Quote:It can manifest as finding out how to make companies like Cloudflare stop providing services, or an attrition tactic: seeing someone disagreeable on an X timeline and reporting it to advertisers, so that the site itself slowly starts to fail. These tactics are more distanced than doxxing, they maintain a detached air while at the same time being very involved and very concerned about their target. When doing this they must think of themselves as muckraker reporter types, bringing to their audience an "awful awful" person and an instruction manual on how to eliminate his online presence.

This is a comparable tactic to what Keffals used to create the KiwiFarms Slapfight Incidents. Though the two conduct themselves differently, one sniping at a distance (Keffals) and the other being slightly more honest about their intentions (KF), the intentions of both are quite similar. Think of #4, 6, and 7 in the Basic Characteristics list: Keffals most assuredly used the site on a routine basis to know what was discussed, perceived a flaw in the users ("transphobia"), and did not sway in his efforts to dismantle the site. You could also say that #2 applies as well, since the streamer audience wouldn't normally be aware of the controversies in the first place. He seems to have some dedicated paypigs and it's doubtful that letting KF remain intact would have financially hurt him. Where the "success" came from is another story.

Farm users are subject to themselves, being that they operate on consensus amongst themselves about who deserves to be observed. However, someone like Keffals is subject to a faceless audience, one that basically will agree with everything he says. The format of streaming attracts the most credulous people. The slap fighting as Anthony mentioned is amplified due to this audience, which Keffals caters to for his own benefit. It helps for engagement, and can quickly bypass the difficulties of individually asking online security services/hosting companies. It's a matter of Null's individual effort that keeps the site alive, and while the same goes for Keffals leveraging power in destroying a website, having an audience nearby quickens this destruction. Less work to be done.

At this point I wonder if the audience that liked Keffals' tweets (streaming audience AND people unfamiliar with The Farms) is just a dumb automaton version of the average KF user, dropped into normalfag twitter instead of a forum. Less capable of observing people than the earlier model of users, but animated by the same purpose.