Americans vs Europeans

[Opossum]

Mass media killed national character and if mass media is created in America then I guess we are all American. How pozz'd a country is in my view is based entirely on its dosage (its ubiquity), some take longer to resist but once they do its population become global citizens or - Americans.

I am probably wrong however and it is because I'm British that I find the OP to be utter coal.
'acknowledge Kaczynski, find God, and know that civilization is a crippling degrading thing given by demons'
Even on Amarna I have to see this? Pls be troll.

America is not its media. You are not "converted", just dead. If you had any "national character" to begin with this would not have happened, do not whine that our silly songs floating from over the sea have possessed your corpse.

I don't claim to match Amarna milieu, especially as it seems to be mostly atheist eternally-2016 wignats. If Huwhite people do not turn to God they will be destroyed, rightfully.

[Oldblood]

Well you'll be surprised to find there are plenty of Europeans who share your fear of indoor plumbing and feel tremendous unease at the Linkola "We're fucking things which cant be unfucked" video. Perhaps you are more alike than you think.

[Opossum]

>fear of indoor plumbing

As originally described, the default European reversion to "look how civilized and refined I am", because they confuse lack of personal vitality and dependence on senescent mammy-techno-state structures with "advancement", being gay with being classy, etc.

"Legend has it that Queen Elizabeth wouldn’t use the toilet because she was scared of the sounds. The United States Patent and Trademark Office issued the first patent for a flushing toilet in 1775 to Alexander Cummings. In 1829, Isaiah Rogers built eight water closets in the Tremont Hotel of Boston, which made it the first hotel to have indoor plumbing. In 1857, Joseph Gayetty [American] invented the commercially available toilet paper. [I personally only use a bidet, but nonetheless.] Halsey Willard Taylor and Luther Haws [both American] invented the first modern drinking fountain in the early 1900s. In 1937, Alfred Moen [American] invented the single handle tap. After burning his hands multiple times with the hot water from his two-handle faucet, Moen felt the need for a single handle mixer tap that still exists today."

Britain on the other hand was the first home of large-scale sewer infrastructure implementation, seeking industrial-scaled solutions for the needs of their fetid, coal-choked rat cities, as opposed to the American tinkerers finding ways to make improvements that are relevant to the free individual already living in a clean and open space.

[Guest]

Whoops. I thought it was obviously a dig at your comments on civilisation being demonic. No, I wasn’t literally referring to differences in plumbing.

[Opossum]

Whoops. I thought it was obviously a dig at your comments on civilisation being demonic. No, I wasn’t literally referring to differences in plumbing.

Yes, the dig was obvious, but the position from which you speak is also funny. I wasn't familiar with the mentioned video, but I suppose you're just fine with plastic then?

[Leverkühn]

As a fellow American I can't really agree with your anti-Europeanism. I think the Islamic conquest of Europe would be neither righteous nor just, and would be a sad ending for the history of the European people. In some sense I think that Europe is still the ancestral home of the white man, and I'm drawn to it's history and culture in the same way that Ishmael feels he is drawn towards the sea at the beginning of Moby Dick. @BillyONare said that Americans view Europeans like Elves, and maybe that's the sort of feeling I'm trying to get at here. The fact that it will die a slow death, either by immigration or just a total domination by the globohomo order, is a much sadder fate than if it had ended in some great battle against Muslim hordes. But I guess in some way Europe did lose its soul in a great war, the Great War of the 1940s against the forces of Communism and Mass Democracy.

For all of America's great accomplishments and feats over Europe (I agree with much of what you said about our frontier culture and religiosity), we will always be marred by the nigger hordes that run freely in our cities. I understand you're "ted-pilled" but it's no excuse to let coons run wild in our cities. They can be beautiful places when the right people live there. I simply wish the European People could wake up from their sclerotic sleep, break off their chains, and rise again to greatness. How this could happen I have no clue-- Pan-Europeanism under the EU is utterly cucked, I see no future there.

[anthony]

Calling MENA hordes only capable of asserting themselves over the world in the fashion of bedbugs "Islamic Conquerers" misrepresents the issue and the possible fate of Europe. The original Islamic Conquests were a driven people with a sense of destiny testing their virtue and vigour against that of their neighbours, and often succeeding. The new *Islamic Conquerers* are fellaheen fail-people, probably overwhelmingly the descendants of Mohamed's conquests and servants, who need an invitation and safe passage to get out of their shitholes and can only survive on the pathological patience and charity of their hosts. They aren't conquerers. More like an indulged invasive pest species. These people couldn't win a war to save their lives or cultures, they can barely keep the lights on.

This isn't a conquest. It's Gobineau's decline theory playing out on a global scale. Modern civilisation *includes* far more than it *absorbs*. There are people who *are* fundamentally civilised, and people who can function *within* civilisation, who inevitably become subjects of the former. The former, being the ones bearing the greatest burdens under peacetime conditions, will inevitably find themselves bled dry maintaining the rest.

[Opossum]

Responding to both of the above, I agree that today's Muslims aren't a stellar conqueror race, and are degraded along with everyone else, yet still are generally god-fearing, and by this alone have more of a right to the land. Re: the "fundamentally civilized" being bled dry... yes, good.

I wouldn't say I'm "anti-European" categorically, just pessimistic about their state and apathetic about their future. As I've mentioned, if France can turn itself around, good on them; but if so, they're better off calling it a fresh start. What is there of "the European people" to carry forward?

And what do we mean by this? If we mean the continent generally, I don't think Russia's going anywhere, so you should place your hope in them. If we mean culturally/ethnically western euros specifically, what exactly defines them, at this point, and what is there that I should care about, other than blood relation? Is the retarded blaspheming fifth-cousin worth spurning God over, out of loyalty? Luke 14:26 is incompatible with wignatism (and I say this as a vehement racist, of course).

What is there are far as "national [really regional] character" to carry the flame of? What ongoing collective narrative do they have, that would be "sad" to end? Has it not already ended? I say it has. So what will happen next upon that land? Not really my business. Quite unnatural to think of things across an ocean as one's own. As far as I'm concerned the flame was already passed in 1620 by divine command.

Responding to this specifically:

In some sense I think that Europe is still the ancestral home of the white man, and I'm drawn to it's history and culture in the same way that Ishmael feels he is drawn towards the sea at the beginning of Moby Dick. @BillyONare said that Americans view Europeans like Elves, and maybe that's the sort of feeling I'm trying to get at here.

If so mystified, why not move there? I don't mean this ironically or cynically. Skellig Michael is a magical place, but my life is not for scenery. As far as I can see romance is romance, and history is history, ancestors are ancestors and dust is dust. They're still there, in history, just as America will always have at its foundation Arthur and Charlemagne, but what matters to the living is what is alive, the future is built on the present.

Lastly, no idea what this has to do with American blacks. American cities should be nuked, and if you live in a strike zone, frankly it's what you deserve, speaking generally. I don't know of any potential targets in this country that are not so deserving. Concentrate on the Yumen silos. We can end it here. We can end it for all time.

[cats]

Opossum's vantablack niggercoal posts demonstrate something I briefly thought about making posts in relation to in the Israel thread: religion is a reactionary force against the true Nietzschean right and must be at the very least partially abandoned if the right intends to do anything serious ideologically. I presume most of you already know this.

You can see this in Israel, where there's a sentiment that perhaps importing Ethiopians is not beneficial to the civitas at large, but immediately the religious right steps in and claims that any barriers to Ethiopian importation goes against Israel's ideal as a Jewish religious state. Opossum and those like him who post their lurid fantasies online of Europeans being gangraped by Arabs as divine punishment for not going to wholesome heckin' traditional Latin mass would've planted bombs under German supply trucks during World War II because Hitler evoked Europe's pagan past, ironically landing themselves in the modern spiritual drought as a result.

There is no value in being anti-civilization. Graph Twitter was funny when it made eco-commie trannies balk and admit their fetish-made-ideology was an invention of the Weimar Republic and supplied by Israeli pharmaceutical industry, but it has little utility beyond that. There's nothing noble about African tribesmen, or living like them. It's funny that you evoke the 16th century and early 17th century as times where Europeans still had the blessing of God, considering those were times of incredible Cindysme and the development of Western civilization you despise so much.

[Opossum]

religion is a reactionary force against the true Nietzschean right and must be at the very least partially abandoned if the right intends to do anything serious ideologically. I presume most of you already know this.

Nietzsche was strongly anti-nationalist, and especially despised its rise among the Germans. His most important messages were (if not religious) entirely spiritual, but I guess such things wouldn't be of interest if you can't put them on a mass-movement political platform. His critiques of certain tendencies in European Christianity were more or less correct (though overly generalizing, and reflective of a continent that had already lost its way, as he saw and lamented so strongly, even if the consequences were not yet fully evident).

I have no interest in "ideology", and suggest you read mustache man more carefully if you intend to do anything serious eternally.

Opossum and those like him who post their lurid fantasies online of Europeans being gangraped by Arabs as divine punishment for not going to wholesome heckin' traditional Latin mass...

Gan-grape thing is very strange. For all your "Nietzscheanism" this seems to be reducing concept of conquest to interracial porno influence. Do not know what to say.

Anyway, I apparently have not posted enough screeds against Catholic culture, faith, and e-people. Message received, I'll try better.

There's nothing noble about African tribesmen

False. Much more noble than being a slum-dwelling Hindu, or an Israeli, though yes this is not saying much.

It's funny that you evoke the 16th century and early 17th century as times where Europeans still had the blessing of God, considering those were times of incredible Cindysme and the development of Western civilization you despise so much.

God sent the Pilgrims out of the land just as its native-born Leviathan was coming of age. Alas it was not enough to stop it from taking hold of the world, but still it is for that reason that, unlike Europe, we can here retain the hope of our calling.

[Guest]

Europe's current culture in the entirety of continental Europe is the consequence of American behavior in the 1939-1949 period. The USSR would have collapsed without the aid of American manufacturing and resources (you can read Mark Harrison's work). The USSR also would have collapsed without direct American intervention in the war (read a translation of this -> https://www.solonin.org/article_kak-sove...-pobedil-v).
It's pointless to screech about the different natures of America and Europe post-1949 - it may have been true before, it is certainly not true now that Europe is an American backwater in both wealth and culture.

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i do not mean the above as moralization - that outcome was also the result of 150 years of almost-uninterrupted European stupidity.

[parsifal]

certainly there is a dichotomy between the old world and new world type of white. the divide is spiritual and profound. in my limited experience, even the most western reaches of continental europe have more in common culturally with russia than anywhere in north america. my highly biased view is that europeans tend to have a more refined sense of higher culture, they dress better when going out (even if it's only to the store), they take better care of themselves, are more likely to care about learned subjects like history, the classics, fine art, are better travelled (owing to the ease of doing so within europe), &c. counterintuitively, americans are more likely to have an ancestral attachment to their land whilst among europeans rootless cosmopolitans are the rule; in heartland america there is more of a volkisch wignat-type sentiment while universalist enlightenment values are more appealing to the european. 
about the coastal american urbanites and the hick-lib strivers: nothing good can be said, they are petty slobs who slavishly devote themselves to advancing the ZOG civic religion and nothing more. still, i classify them within the old world type.

[Guest]

>certainly there is a dichotomy between the old world and new world type of white. the divide is spiritual and profound.

I think empirical observation of the descriptive and normative claims made by the upper-middle and the upper class of a given territory, is the only way to grasp the "culture" of a territory. the distribution of claims made by that segment of the population in the US, and the distribution of claims made by the translated segment of the population in the EU, are basically identical, therefore both territories are possessed by the same culture.
this has already become a debate about semantics.

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actually, "EU" should be "the countries part of the EU in 1995" in the above, for greater accuracy, and because this thread does not discuss Poland or the Balkans, obviously

[Opossum]

counterintuitively, americans are more likely to have an ancestral attachment to their land whilst among europeans rootless cosmopolitans are the rule; in heartland america there is more of a volkisch wignat-type sentiment while universalist enlightenment values are more appealing to the european.

"Volkisch" indeed.

The classic map, of course limited for lack of nuance and particular choices in ethnic division, but still:
(EDIT: change to lindy theme for better viewing. Transparency is dumb)



This is not a matter of praise; as an Ur-Britannic north atlantid I find the inland germanoid pigmen rather offputting, yet life among them does me better in the current age than among my closer kin, unfortunately. But my point is that what you're dealing with in the American heartland is a mass of ethnic Germans untouched by the deeply-ingrained, spirit-crushing generational browbeating undergone by their mother stock.

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Re: being "better traveled", that always seems to be a point of cultural misunderstanding, in that the US is physically the size of all of Europe, containing its worth of equivalent holiday destinations for the domestic traveler without leaving the country. In a day-to-day sense, on the other hand, Europeans, at least the older ones I know, hardly leave their hamlet, while an American thinks nothing of driving 2 hours to the grocery store. For better or worse, does the uniformity of American English across a continent speak to a lack or an overabundance of regular movement? "European thinks 100 miles in a long way, American thinks 100 years is a long time." (You've hinted at this yourself of course, this is not a correction.) Difference in perception of space owing to environment: the common impression of the American in Europe is how small everything is - the distances, the winding streets, the cars, the people, like a dollhouse miniature. I think from the European side they probably recognize this as well, the American obsession with BIG - admittedly obnoxious in many instances, but the greater significance being that we're enabled to do such things. "Bigger tank, bigger fish."

The rest my lawyer concedes.

[Oldblood]

I'm wondering why the Americans in this thread besides Leverkühn appear to be looking at the demographic problem in Europe as some distant situation far from their own. I'm sure no one here needs me to remind them of the 60% white population of the US vs say the 78% of the UK. I would guess it comes down to religiosity in which case to take it to its logical conclusion, even with a US cabinet made up of Christian blacks and hispanics, would still not constitute the "defeated" and "conqurered" terms you give to Europeans. If this is the case then I will drop the conversation as our worldview and our goals are so different it becomes pointless.

I'm also curious as to what you think the difference would be, were Americans in our place instead. I still don't know what this frontier culture refers to, is it mass ownership of firearms but still willfully allowing the same problems Europe faces to happen in the US? I think the truth is that 95% of Americans and Europeans think exactly the same way on anything of significance.

As Opossum seems incapable of taking anything other than literally, Nietzschean is used because of our rejection of established moral systems and inclination towards power and beauty. Were he himself to be alive during this period, it is not unreasonable to assume he would be sympathetic to our own beliefs. He was of course, alive in the 19th century, a radically different time than ours.

[Opossum]

I'm wondering why the Americans in this thread besides Leverkühn appear to be looking at the demographic problem in Europe as some distant situation far from their own. I'm sure no one here needs me to remind them of the 60% white population of the US vs say the 78% of the UK. I would guess it comes down to religiosity in which case to take it to its logical conclusion, even with a US cabinet made up of Christian blacks and hispanics, would still not constitute the "defeated" and "conqurered" terms you give to Europeans. If this is the case then I will drop the conversation as our worldview and our goals are so different it becomes pointless.

Demographic problems in Europe pale in comparison to the situation in the US, yes. Scotland as a whole (just as an extreme example) is published as 96% white, something that's hard to find in the US on the county level. (But just try convincing me to live in Scotland!)

I look at it as a distant situation because it's a distant situation. Policies that result in Mexicans flooding into Texas can be looked at as the same type of policies that result in Arabs flooding into Paris, the same ideological framework... but what does this have to do with me? Shall I come and overthrow your government as well? Must we do everything?

Re: "a US cabinet made up of Christian blacks and hispanics", we here reveal another huge disconnect between American and European culture that has not yet been discussed: identity of self, collective nationhood, and government. Europeans, it often seems, cannot really conceive of themselves collectively apart from their government. The crown is the state is the people, my bread and my blood. The American sees these two things as not only distinct, but opposite: Americans, always, in their own view, have existed in spite of any government; even historically when it was more plausibly "theirs" the American character naturally treats it with great suspicion.

The American people are the American people. The American government is Jews. Red-state normies would not use that term, but the idea behind what they would say is basically the same. If you have trouble understanding this concept, or how America operates, I refer you to the previous topic, of Europeans as innocent, "self-ruling" true-believers. Being occupied is not the same as being spiritually defeated: one leaves room for freedom of action, the other does not. What I mean is that Europe does not even need to be occupied.

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I'm also curious as to what you think the difference would be, were Americans in our place instead.

I don't know what this means. What if I were a fish? Glub glub.

I still don't know what this frontier culture refers to

I know you don't.

willfully allowing the same problems Europe faces to happen in the US?

I don't really know what's similar about the American and European political situations at all, beyond the level of having a "liberal" government (in one case imported from the other) and comparing Mexicans and Arabs based on skin color and latitude.

I think the truth is that 95% of Americans and Europeans think exactly the same way on anything of significance.

You're right. The uni student backpacker from Boston you met represents 95% of Americans (who, as we know, never leave their country), as also evidenced by the American-exported media that you consume. Great insight.

[Oldblood]

Quick response:
"Must we do everything?" No. I didn't ask anyone to do anything, just pointing out glass houses etc.
Nor (to address an earlier point in the thread) was I whining about silly songs floating from over the sea, I think its underestimated how much cultural traffic is returned to the US from the UK. Every American teen girl into social justice sees herself as Hermione Granger, and Dawkins & Hitchens have probably done more to promote atheism in the USA than anyone over there. Plenty more examples, not that its a good thing of course, just pointing it out.

In regards to your later two paragraphs, that might be true on the continent, I'm not sure, but is certainly not the case in the UK.
If you've read any Britpoppers posts you'll surely recognise the phrases "Eton schoolboys" and "Toffs at the top." This is an idea shared by the vast majority, that high positions of power are reserved only for the elite from rich families. If you're talking about blood however, that most Americans believe they are ruled by foreigners, well I simply don't believe that.

Finally, you've yet to point out any way that shows Americans are not just as spiritually defeated as Euros, if it purely comes down to Atheism I think you greatly exaggerate piety of US Christians. They are pretending to be Christian, we are not.

[Opossum]

If you've read any Britpoppers posts you'll surely recognise the phrases "Eton schoolboys" and "Toffs at the top."

No habla bingbong language sir.

if it purely comes down to Atheism I think you greatly exaggerate piety of US Christians. They are pretending to be Christian, we are not.

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On the other hand I'll concede the point that, of western Europe (extreme low bar), the UK is the more "conservative" of them. It's not quite France/Germany/Austria of women literally walking around and hanging out on beaches topless.

[Opossum]

As I am still baffled and amazed by the last claim, I'd like to remind the audience that of that 14% who even consider themselves religious, they are participants in a Church of England that has ordained women since 2014. While these types of churches exist in the US ("mainline", including our own Episcopalians - a little CoE colony where you can go eat pancakes on Shrove Tuesday for the sake of "tradition", essentially a sort of wasp heritage club without much of a religious aspect), no one goes to them except elderly holdovers, and that 68% of the genuinely religious would be mostly of the evangelical type.

My assumption, if he's familiar with this information (but I'm not sure, he seems very unfamiliar with my country) and is just claiming that our 68% is "pretending" (whereas Brits are honest in their atheism?) is that he actually cannot conceive of a genuinely religious society. Being European.

[Oldblood]

"I don't really know what's similar about the American and European political situations at all"
Why would we be on the same forum if our political situation was completely different? Do you think it's a coincidence our sphere is made up of Americans and Europeans, rather than say ... Ethiopians and Filipinos?

"The uni student backpacker from Boston you met represents 95% of Americans"
Correct. That is exactly what I think. Their differences are artificial, all believe in the same fundamental tenets of equality, anti-imperialism, universal suffrage and education, and so on...
Whether some vote for the red kike or the blue kike who delivers them is of little interest to me.
The quote from T777 comes to mind, something like:
A liberal will let his daughter be gang-banged by negroes, a conservative will demand one of them marries her first.

"and is just claiming that our 68% is "pretending" (whereas Brits are honest in their atheism?"
Correct. That is exactly what I think.
Oh, because they said they take it seriously in a poll, that makes it true?
I would expect no less from someone who believes Moloch lives in his toaster.

Rejoice, my part in this thread is over, you're avoiding all of my questions, offering only flat performative quips instead.