Modern Sex Economy

[Gorgias]

With modern advents like dating apps, female empowerment, social media etc. the sexual economy that we live in today is different than all previous eras (mostly for the worse,) and no boomer advice seems relevant. For all the pro-incel memes (frivolous or genuine) we mostly obfuscate the fundamental problem of man's sexual need by talking about Total Woman Death or what have you. Frogs and Amarnites seem to rather not want to talk about this seriously, which leads to the only ones talking about this being PUA type retards and quasi-normies, but we all know that the need exists and cannot simply be ignored in practice so I think it's worth Amarnite analysis. I'll be discussing a few different avenues men go to fill the need, I'd like to hear further insight into any of these strands or bringing up other ways not mentioned.

Dating
Dating is of course the most normal, one could say lindy, of the ways men go to fill the need. In this path you either are genuinely looking to get married or you're fooling her or yourself into thinking that's the goal when really you just want to get sex. Much of the downfalls of modern marriage and dating have already been elaborated (fat, unserious women, divorce rates, etc.) so I won't spend too much time going over them here. I do have one thing to add that may be original to this discussion though; In my view, contraception is the biggest cuck to modern dating. I've had the theory for a while that evolutionarily, if a woman is having sex with a man for 6+ months and she still shows no sign of pregnancy, that's a signal that this man is infertile and she should look elsewhere to get knocked up.

Sleeping around
Sadly, the era of going out to bars alone, talking up women, trying to get laid, is so incredibly over. That era, for all it's faults, was a better time than ours. Now we have dating apps, which seem to be the only method of getting casual sex as a man today. Men who would usually get by on their ability to impress women with their conversation and humor are hit hard by this; I'm sure the average Amarnite will relate here, as average looking but high IQ guys are totally unselected for in favor of the guy who looks good on camera. You end up spending an absurd amount of time swiping, to have an absurd amount of sterile message exchanges, only to end up actually hooking up with a few women a month, of which the sex usually isn't very good because one night stands almost never are. The best outcome here is a friends with benefits situation, but in my experience these don't last long at all because the women almost certainly will catch feelings and you either have to cut it off or go back to Dating.

"Mgtow" 
There's a lot of truth to the mgtow (men going their own way) movement and attitude, and while I'm not especially familiar with it's discourse, I'm suspicsious of it. Mostly because, as I've said, every man has a sexual need. Mgtow people are often associated with nofap/semen retention, which I'm even more suspicious of. You really push these people on nofap and they either end up telling you that they do, in fact, jack off, or they're old and their dick doesn't work anymore anyways. Any young man who's actually tried this knows what I'm talking about. You go a week without cumming and it ends up coming out in your sleep. Now you just woke up in the middle of the night, and you have to clean the sheets. (Is this post too gross yet? Bare with me, it'll get worse.) Mgtow, in practice for the young man means jacking off at least a few times a week, probably more, and develop a porn reliance of some sort, not to mention the psychological pain from not having sex. It's a legitimate path, but it definitely isn't ideal.

Faggotry
As an avid listener to Carribean Rythms, I must include this topic. While it is the case that many ancient aristocratic men saw no problem with raping a slave boy to fulfill their need, and I have no problem in concept with this, I'm still viscerally disgusted with homosexuality. Atop this visceral disgust, faggots today are riddled with STDs and are generally insufferable people. I don't expect any Amarnite to be brave enough to discuss this, but it's worth mentioning.

Prosties
Acceptance of prosties is more general than you'd imagine in the frog community. If you ask your groupchat "what do you think about prosties" you won't get much of a response, but doing an anonymous poll I found about 2/3 of my groupchat said prosties were good. The quality and price of prosties will vary wildly depending on what part of the world you're in. For example, I just moved from a major city in the US where you could get a pretty attractive and skilled prostie for around $600/hour. This is probably still too much compared to what you can get outside the US, but it was still good enough while I was living there. But upon moving to a smaller US city, I found that I was paying more for less, and it quickly became untenable. I've thought about trips down to mexico, but looking into the statistics I found that the STD rate for Mexican prosties is crazy, and of course finding one with enough colonizer blood in her to be attractive wouldn't be that easy to begin with.

[Ricky23]

I'm not entirely convinced that dating is lindy, it seems like a somewhat recent thing and probably is a response to birth control etc. This is also part of the reason why people get married so much later now than in the past. As a system "serial monogamy" encourages people to rely on extremely fleeting and subtle emotional sensations to guide their long term decision making which is inevitably disastrous if you intend to create a family or even anything permanent. 

As for dating apps, the system of trying to sell yourself forces you to abandon self awareness and act like a retarded clown to try and get a girl. Theoretically a dating app might work to get laid if you are extremely attractive or somewhat attractive and funny or at least charismatic. If you are normal looking or ugly it's not possible to use them for their intended purpose because the sole asset which you have to sell yourself on a dating app is appearance. I also think dating apps have somewhat 'spoiled' women in as far as the female dating app experience is akin to driving through the slums of Mumbai in a Rolls Royce. This makes it more difficult to find women even outside the internet. 

MGTOW I will never understand because it's a movement built around not caring about women but the entire premise is fixated on women. I'm sure that this community could potentially be turned into something useful if the entire former manosphere wasn't so blatantly resentful and in denial about that resentment (I'm not saying here that because they are resentful they are therefore wrong about everything). As for nofap, it's only useful if your primary problem in life is porn or masturbating which is very rarely the case. I would say that watching porn is bad because it's disgusting and watching it increases your tolerance for disgust. Also, under certain circumstances it can cause paraphilias and harmful sexual fixations. I generally just close my eyes and focus my mind really hard until I ejaculate instead of masturbating mechanically. I do this probably once every 2 weeks because it's a good exercise in concentration and prevents me from falling into masturbation habits which can be difficult to break (I don't like the feeling of having compulsive habits). I would recommend everybody do the same thing. 

As for being gay it won't work because most faggots are more hysterical than women and anal sex is disgusting. Nobody with any degree of sensitivity would be comfortable being on either and of sodomy. And even if you do sodomise somebody you are simply participating in the psychological destruction of a someone who potentially has the correct instincts so it seems to be a largely pointless world which has nothing to offer us.

[Guest]

Mgtow people are often associated with nofap/semen retention, which I'm even more suspicious of. You really push these people on nofap and they either end up telling you that they do, in fact, jack off, or they're old and their dick doesn't work anymore anyways. Any young man who's actually tried this knows what I'm talking about.

 I think the quitting pornography aspect of nofap is beneficial. Watching a woman get fucked by another man is not only extremely disgusting but it also psychologically conditions you to get off to cuckoldry.
As you say, however, quitting ejaculation entirely is just not feasible, or even that beneficial. Nofap is effectively voluntary impotency.

[Zed]

Guide to dating success as a modern man -

1. Be at least somewhat fit. Full bodybuilder build not required.
2. Be romantic and poetic
3. Be psychopathic

Tell her that you want to conquer the world with her, that you want her to be your queen. Have wild dreams and be ambitions. Does a coworker mildly insult her? Offer to kill them with a straight face. Lie constantly and well. Make up stories, but remember them and be consistent.

Men fail because they are unable to channel violence. Female fear and love is intertwined. The original red pill never went far enough exploring this.

[GymChad]

@Zed I'm all of these and it doesn't work. You wouldn't know though cuz you're a tranny. No offense but you don't date women

[Zed]

@Zed I'm all of these and it doesn't work. You wouldn't know though cuz you're a tranny. No offense but you don't date women

I've dated women. But more importantly - I've had tons of female friends and observed their sexual tastes. Men who were innately threatening, in some fashion or another, always got the win. They often weren't even particularly good looking, or made a lot of money. Just something about the way they carried themselves. They could speak in a way that literally melted women. Such men often had women who stalked them after a single date years back.

[Guest]

Guide to dating success as a modern man -

1. Be at least somewhat fit. Full bodybuilder build not required.
2. Be romantic and poetic
3. Be psychopathic

Tell her that you want to conquer the world with her, that you want her to be your queen. Have wild dreams and be ambitions. Does a coworker mildly insult her? Offer to kill them with a straight face. Lie constantly and well. Make up stories, but remember them and be consistent.

Men fail because they are unable to channel violence. Female fear and love is intertwined. The original red pill never went far enough exploring this.

You forgot the most important factor of all: Be tall and handsome
"Tell her that you want to conquer the world with her, that you want her to be your queen. Have wild dreams and be ambitions. Does a coworker mildly insult her? Offer to kill them with a straight face."
This will only work if you're physically attractive. If you're not her impression of you will be that you're a creepy weirdo.

[GymChad]

I'm tall and handsome. Zed is lying about the "They could speak in a way that literally melted women." thing. I can speak in any way I want to. If there were word hacks that dropped panties, every man would learn them. So he's full of BS

[Mladorossi88]

In my 20+ years of existence I have never once considered putting my dick in a man's ass. Apparently it was good enough for Hadrian, but I too am viscerally repulsed by the mere thought.

[GymChad]

In my 20+ years of existence I have never once considered putting my dick in a man's ass. Apparently it was good enough for Hadrian, but I too am viscerally repulsed by the mere thought.

Have you tried an 18 year old boy's face?

[august]

I'm tall and handsome. Zed is lying about the "They could speak in a way that literally melted women." thing. I can speak in any way I want to. If there were word hacks that dropped panties, every man would learn them. So he's full of BS

[GymChad]

Going back over Zed's comments, maybe he's onto something that I skipped over. Pathological lying. You see, I'm extremely honest and it hurts me in the dating market ... I once lost a date because I lectured her on the game theory of deception in dating and said it made me sad, that I altruistically decided not to deceive ... I later learned she catfished me about her IQ. The problem for me is lying is like sodomy to me, a disgusting and shameful act that I don't want to lower myself to ...

[Mladorossi88]

In my 20+ years of existence I have never once considered putting my dick in a man's ass. Apparently it was good enough for Hadrian, but I too am viscerally repulsed by the mere thought.

Have you tried an 18 year old boy's face?

No.

[GymChad]

In my 20+ years of existence I have never once considered putting my dick in a man's ass. Apparently it was good enough for Hadrian, but I too am viscerally repulsed by the mere thought.

Have you tried an 18 year old boy's face?

No.

As BAP says, it's lindy

[Mladorossi88]

I would rather cum inside 18 year old human females with xx chromosomes but if you like homosex that's your prerogative, Nietzschean incel on the internet.

[august]

This general topic spans across multiple different threads here so forgive me for possible overlap with what has been said elsewhere. Here are a couple of genuine remarks.

Dating
Dating is of course the most normal, one could say lindy, of the ways men go to fill the need.

I'm not entirely convinced that dating is lindy, it seems like a somewhat recent thing and probably is a response to birth control etc. This is also part of the reason why people get married so much later now than in the past. As a system "serial monogamy" encourages people to rely on extremely fleeting and subtle emotional sensations to guide their long term decision making which is inevitably disastrous if you intend to create a family or even anything permanent.

I say that dating, as we currently understand it, is NOT LINDY, though not exactly for the potential reason(s) that Ricky suggests. It was by way of the christening of Europe that the roots of what we today call "dating" were ever to be planted. Just taking a broad look into the attitudes toward marriage as generally described in antiquity versus those from Medieval Europe to ~1920 is maybe convincing enough for my point. Why I choose 1920 as the upper bound should be obvious, but I have to make the disclaimer because most people (normies) tend to be limited in their ability to think historically beyond the oldest first or second degree relative that they know or know of. At most, generally a grandparent or such. This, to me, is why people falsely mistake things like pre-1960s/70s "dating" as lindy. The problem with referencing dating dynamics of that time is that you are really just seeing only mere vestiges of something in which the final nail had already been hammered down earlier in the century; the wheels were already in motion for dating's demise. In short, from antiquity to today, what you find is a process of regression guised as progression. The inevitable result is a return to what some refer to as "The Longhouse".

Notable others adjacent to this sphere have already covered ancient man's initial receptiveness to "marriage" in good enough detail that it doesn't require rehashing aside from the basic fact that men needed to be heavily incentivised to accept the idea of marriage, which they correctly saw as a life domesticated, vita domi. Just think about the word husband: "husbondi" or "husbonde" or "housbond" ... a bond to the house, one who is house bound. Compare that to what I believe is now a more archaic word for "bridegroom" in Romanian, "mire", which some argue comes from the Latin "miles" (or "soldier") who would have fought in and occupied Roman Dacia. The only way any sensible man of the time would accept a life of bondage to the home would have been if he was given total and complete control over his house (i.e., his property, including, most importantly, his wife).

Not until you start moving away from the more ancient structure do you see the saplings of "dating" begin to bud with courtship, partnership choices based on love instead of carnality and lust, and of course, this idea of unquestionable monogamy. The mover, naturally, being Christianity -- which until very recently was always used as the 'modernising' force that makes things and peoples 'civilised'. I don't attack this, for romantic love as we understand it is a development almost entirely unique to European civilisation. The issue is that people still think that it's universally possible... "Your person is out there somewhere!" Like I said, you may still see some instances that appear to resemble this, but they are fragments, vestigial. And so I return to 1920. For our purposes here, this is when everything really changed and the door was opened for all that we see today. It was summarised so wonderfully here by someone who understands it all so well, that I can only repeat some of it below. You can easily find it in full if you really want to.

Women have endless contempt for socialised herbivore men and will NEVER draw a conscious connection between social processes and the creation of these types.

They think it's just how some guys are.

I am probably far more extreme than [---] on this point, a man who has been reduced to this state IS OWED SEX.

Men who have had their souls fed to the machine and are now spat on by it.

We can't count on all of them to learn what's going on, and if they do it'll be in a bad way. [...] That's not progress.

The heavily socialised man is important and requires constant cultivation. The complimentary roles of women in that scheme were essential.

But women don't understand it was always a social scheme. [...]

[...] Women are upset and disgusted by male domesticity but can't recognise it as domesticity. Can't, won't, doesn't matter. They're fucking dumb and can't be given a say in this if the world is going to continue having docile workers. 

They don't understand how much is given up to maintain social peace because nothing is expected of them, and they think their privilege-laden existence is unprecedented oppression. They're niggers. Blind to everything done for them.

  
I can't remember where I saw it said, either here or on X, but someone made a very true comment about how women today don't suffer or even realise the effects of this current dating situation or the "Modern Sex Economy" anywhere near the degree that men do because they can ALWAYS get intimacy from gays and their girl friends. They aren't forced to walk alone. Nor could they, because it's in their nature to need their hands held, because they are children. This relates directly to what I see as the fundamental contradiction driving the types of problems addressed in the original post: Women are repulsed by the idea of, and do not want, a partner of lower or even equal status. They all naturally (biologically) want someone that is of higher status than them, not equal, and certainly not lower. At the same time, when women are outperformed by men, whether in academia or the economy, they use that as proof that they are still facing "unprecedented oppression" and require privileged status to make up it (their 'reparations'). A society cannot solve this problem without cutting its losses and acknowledging that nearly every decision from 1920 onward concerning women has resulted in them having complete and total control over the way the society functions. As every sane person predicted would happen, society is a ruined and retarded mess for not only Average Joe, but all men in general. The fact that it only took 100 years (much less, honestly) is sufficient enough to prove the general point. Of course, I have presented my ideas on how to possibly fix this in a few other threads here.