True Open World Games
#21
(11-23-2022, 04:28 AM)anthony Wrote: ...

... they actually make expressive use of the ideas and conventions.

I like your framing of "game stuff" - concepts and conventions that gamers recognise, expect or disdain. A meta-experience that comes with the fact that you've played other games before. A developer can chose to use them as means of expression, or use them to tick boxes. 

There is also the possibility to use such expectations to lead and mislead the player. My prime example would be Noita, but you called roguelites "contrived", smh. Supposedly 'Baba is you' by the same developers has similar elements.

Quote:"They told me I could be anything I wanted and I became a stealth archer."

This made me lol. 

"They told me, in AAA-games, I could only choose between playing a CoD bullet sponge or a Skyrim stealth archer"

I've liked stealth games since Thief (which I might overvalue for nostalgic reasons, but in my mind it was a very impressive game), and I'm not ashamed of seeking out an evolution of that experience - everything is not Skyrim, luckily. When you played Shadow of Chernobyl, did that feel stealth archer-y? My guess is not (certainly not for me), but you did essentially the same sneaking and sniping.
#22
(11-23-2022, 07:15 AM)Hamamelis Wrote: I like your framing of "game stuff" - concepts and conventions that gamers recognise, expect or disdain. A meta-experience that comes with the fact that you've played other games before. A developer can chose to use them as means of expression, or use them to tick boxes. 

There is also the possibility to use such expectations to lead and mislead the player.

I think playing on expectations is kind of inherently soy, especially after Metal Gear Solid 2 did basically everything you can do with the idea in one go.

As for game stuff, I've discussed that a lot with Pigsaw. Barrels, goblins, giant crystals in caves, experience points, enemy camps, this stuff is all gay and if we could skip over it we'd be left with the real game lying underneath. Jennifer Hepler was right that 90% of the shit in games should be skippable. Where she was wrong was her ideas on what the other 10% should be.

Quote:I've liked stealth games since Thief (which I might overvalue for nostalgic reasons, but in my mind it was a very impressive game), and I'm not ashamed of seeking out an evolution of that experience - everything is not Skyrim, luckily. When you played Shadow of Chernobyl, did that feel stealth archer-y? My guess is not (certainly not for me), but you did essentially the same sneaking and sniping.
I think that "stealth" as an abstract idea of something one can do is peak "game stuff". I like Metal Gear because it's not a "stealth" game. It's "tactical espionage action". I love that term because it's totally original and can mean anything. That's also why gamers hate it and call metal gear a "stealth game".
#23
(11-23-2022, 07:37 AM)anthony Wrote: I think playing on expectations is kind of inherently soy...

It is soy: "You expected this work of art to conform to some pattern because of previous experience, and we expected your expectations and mixed it up, now don't you feel silly?" However, I have only ever seen one game do it in a way I found noticeable (Noita) and it was very well done, because it played into the greater theme of the game.
EDIT: I haven't played any Metal Gear Solid game.

Quote: "stealth" as an abstract idea of something one can do is peak "game stuff"

It's not an abstract idea, it's a game mechanism. In some games it's central and in others it's one of many. That's like saying guns are "game stuff".
#24
(11-23-2022, 01:42 PM)Hamamelis Wrote:
(11-23-2022, 07:37 AM)anthony Wrote: I think playing on expectations is kind of inherently soy...

It is soy: "You expected this work of art to conform to some pattern because of previous experience, and we expected your expectations and mixed it up, now don't you feel silly?" However, I have only ever seen one game do it in a way I found noticeable (Noita) and it was very well done, because it played into the greater theme of the game.
EDIT: I haven't played any Metal Gear Solid game.

Quote: "stealth" as an abstract idea of something one can do is peak "game stuff"

It's not an abstract idea, it's a game mechanism. In some games it's central and in others it's one of many. That's like saying guns are "game stuff".

"Stealth" is an abstract concept. It could mean any number of things. In AAA video games it means the "mechanic" of becoming 98% invisible and 100% silent while ducking low, which can be done indefinitely. I have a lot of respect for any game which actually thinks about stealth in the abstract as a possibility rather than a set of rules. A failure of a game like Spy Fiction is more interesting than The Last of Us.


[-]
Quick Reply
Message
Type your reply to this message here.

Human Verification
Please tick the checkbox that you see below. This process is used to prevent automated spam bots.



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)