/lit/ The Literature Board of 4chan
#1
I suppose everyone here is familiar with /lit/, it might have a relatively small impact compared to the more prominent boards but it certainly had an huge impact on me and intellectually inclined people here. The posters there were passionate about literature and introduced me to books I now adore. Adolescent me fell for all of the memes, wasted hundreds of hours trying to best others in discussion and ended up being disillusioned with 4chan as a whole. What led to this disillusionment was mainly the poor quality of the discussion as no one actually read those authors and speaking about them bore no fruit. I always thought that ''people on /lit/ don't read'' was a stupid meme, spread by pseuds who want to appear as the final judges of what counts as reading, but when my recently rekindled passion of reading started to wane and became more selective. I saw /lit/izens as what they were, a bunch of retarded gossipers putting seeming knowledgeable above actual knowledge, you see when you repeat these dumb memes over and over again about authors you've never read you won't be troubled by the fact that most of the threads will go on without your useless input. So every single thread has either multiple off-topic or bot-like replies that do nothing but artificially fatten the thread or replies that only serve to signal the poster's in-group or out-group status.
BEHOLD, THE LAST MEN






A thread about Nietzsche that has 453 replies? Surely we've come to an intellectual feast, that image and the reply number is enough to spur desire. We would be justified to assume this as the Nietzsche thread on Amarna Forum has only 20 replies and yet it was quite delightful to read! But here we find out what really is wrong with /lit/. I advise our sensitive readers to not read this thread as I value their well-being. Let's use the Ctrl+f function and see what happens in this thread.



tranny+troon+trannie 62 matches

pagan 85 matches

christ 188 matches



Before even reading this thread we're struck by the possibility that a huge war must've broken out here, names that signal either hatred or love were used unsparingly and perhaps even the people with mild-temperament were cast unto frenzy. And once we start reading the thread we're proven correct and shortly after we fall into despair. Of course there are few lions among the horde of NPCs.



[Image: https://i.ibb.co/n6sjtvt/hero.jpg]



This thread is very violent but not in the same manner the Undertale thread is. Here insects step on one another to best one another using strategies that requires no intelligence whatsoever, the will to power is certainly there but it is manifested in such a botched way that someone with even a slight intellectual concern would be repulsed. Undertale thread is violent as well but it is violent in a way similar to Homer's Contest, there is ''cruelty, tigerish lust to annihilate''. Superior men fight one another using the most complex and superior method to crush their enemies. So when a sole lion emerges from the earthly masses what does the herd do? Nothing, they do nothing. Is it their fault? Is the thread too noisy to pay attention to the words of the lion? Perhaps. I treat worthless posts as noise since they occupy space without providing anything and prevent thought from forming properly. So should we engage and insist on replying to these retards? I can't help but think that it's a futile effort and the lack of reaction to above reply confirms my sentiment. I hereby withdraw from that thread as now it is simply a museum piece to look and analyze what is wrong with /lit/ and 4chan as a whole. Final word from icycalm.



Quote:699. 4chan is without a doubt the worst website in the history of the internet. I have never seen such an agglomeration of stupidity and wretchedness anywhere else, nor would have imagined that so much ugliness — mental, and no doubt also physical — could be possible in this world if I had never come across it. And they are all fully aware of this, which is why they prefer to remain anonymous, and almost immediately trash everything that they write, since they know it's rubbish. We are talking about individuals so weak and fearful that even the nicknames used by forum users feel too restrictive and oppressive to them. Individuals so slow and incoherent that they don't want others to be able to connect even as much as two of their posts together and hold them accountable for some measure of logic between them. This is the true bottom of the barrel of (sub)humanity. And that's why I keep an eye on it from time to time. You couldn't even meet such idiots in the street, since people in the street possess at least the minimum amount of strength required to leave their rooms and walk around.

All these stuff we've talked about is observable in any imageboard and isn't unique to /lit/ so it is now time to talk about /lit/ culture proper.

''Starting with the Greeks'' —— Might give the /lit/izen a proper grounding in ancient greek thought, it being treated as a meme is very telling.
''Meme Trilogy'' —— Infinite Jest, Ulysses and Gravity's Rainbow.
''Popularization of largely forgotten or rarely talked about authors'' —— Rene Guenon is a good example of this.
''/lit/'s own authors'' ——  F. Gardner the author of ''Call of the Crocodile'' a terrible book, he has been shilling his book since it was published and managed to become a meme on /lit/.
''Charts'' —— Best part about /lit/, sharing charts and gathering them has always been a fun and interesting experience, I've used to collect them and thanks to the charts I've found some very obscure books but I've never made a chart before maybe I should make one. We definitely need a Amarna reading Chart. Athenians had the Illiad what do the Amarnites have? Here is a good archive of them. https://4chanlit.fandom.com/wiki/Charts.

I hope my OP sparks discussion about /lit/ and 4chan. And I am also curious about other people who in their journey travelled through /lit/ and would like to read their travelogue.
#2
Try ever searching a keyword about a book that isn't the title nor the author, something like the name of a character or a place that would unavoidably be mentioned while discussing the book, in the /lit/ catalogue, and you will see the absolute lack of any standards. After more than a decade being a "meme" there I'm convinced only a couple poor souls have read Infinite Jest.
#3
Modern 4tran is essentially an attempt to find good threads amidst the bad, unlike just a decade ago where it was the opposite; filtering out bad threads from the good. I think a lot of the change has come from the reduction in something you call out as bad here.
(09-24-2023, 04:42 PM)Virtue Wrote: ''Popularization of largely forgotten or rarely talked about authors'' —— Rene Guenon is a good example of this.
There isn't really anything wrong with this, trying to find new authors that are good, instead of circlejerking the same writers forever. The problem now is that no board on 4chan is willing to experiment in the hobby it claims to discuss. Look at /mu/, a board I used to frequent. In the past, there was a constant focus on finding new and unknown artists to talk about the works of. This produced a thousand popularizations of albums, most of which were shit, but some of which were actually very good, like Sweet Trip. This obviously pales in comparison to the amount of influence /a/ has had on anime, but it's still important to realize that this unearthing of new things is the essence of 4chan and the reason for it's contrarianism.

Modern 4chan is the antithesis of this. Discourse has become essentially ossified around the same few topics which are constantly repeated. Continuing the example of /mu/, there are 8 thread up right now dedicated to KPOP, 4 threads on metal, 2 gearhead threads and various other threads essentially dedicated to rehashing the exact same conversation had yesterday. It's poor quality, plain and simple. Every problem on 4chan is caused by this repetition.

/lit/ is essentially plagued by the same problem. You speak of Guenon, but he's essentially the last major author unearthed by that group besides maybe Yuk Hui, a chink retard. If you wanted, you could probably find some good discussion of Nietzsche in an archive, but the discussion has been had so many times that anyone with real insight has repeated their points more than 50 times and will probably not discuss him, while retards will be completely fine shitflinging about him as many times as he comes up. If you want to fix 4chan, it's userbase needs to be purged, and only true effortposters and dedicated users need to remain. Otherwise, it'll remain in the state of a corpse attracting flies.

As for good literature, I loved reading the book Laurus, by Eugeny Vodolazkin, recently. Not sure if it's "amarnacore", as it's very Christian, but it's good.
#4
Part of the problem is with the people there not reading, yes, but I think the other part of it is related to the same neuroses that permeate the whole site, of which the ritualized impersonal meme-babble is only the most obvious. It doesn't really matter how much you force yourself to read, when your interest in reading is to affect a sage schizo wiseman shitposter personality, this will almost invariably cloud your ability to meaningfully engage with the writing of people who had their own ideas. Even when they do read, most people seem to be incapable of formulating their own intuition and unity of perspective out of the things they've read. It's not like anyone on 4chan is likely to notice if you haven't. 

Otherwise, I agree with your assessment. There's far too much garbage to make it a worthwhile use of time to browse. I was able to find a mere handful of worthwhile posts by keyword-searching and trawling back over a year through the archive. I will say that /lit/ can serve as a decent point of departure via reading lists and some surface-level discussion, but if it's the place where you have ended up, I would consider that a failure.
#5
(09-25-2023, 06:28 AM)Guest Wrote:
(09-24-2023, 04:42 PM)Virtue Wrote: ''Popularization of largely forgotten or rarely talked about authors'' —— Rene Guenon is a good example of this.
There isn't really anything wrong with this, trying to find new authors that are good, instead of circlejerking the same writers forever. The problem now is that no board on 4chan is willing to experiment in the hobby it claims to discuss. Look at /mu/, a board I used to frequent. In the past, there was a constant focus on finding new and unknown artists to talk about the works of. This produced a thousand popularizations of albums, most of which were shit, but some of which were actually very good, like Sweet Trip. This obviously pales in comparison to the amount of influence /a/ has had on anime, but it's still important to realize that this unearthing of new things is the essence of 4chan and the reason for it's contrarianism.

Modern 4chan is the antithesis of this. Discourse has become essentially ossified around the same few topics which are constantly repeated. Continuing the example of /mu/, there are 8 thread up right now dedicated to KPOP, 4 threads on metal, 2 gearhead threads and various other threads essentially dedicated to rehashing the exact same conversation had yesterday. It's poor quality, plain and simple. Every problem on 4chan is caused by this repetition.

/lit/ is essentially plagued by the same problem. You speak of Guenon, but he's essentially the last major author unearthed by that group besides maybe Yuk Hui, a chink retard. If you wanted, you could probably find some good discussion of Nietzsche in an archive, but the discussion has been had so many times that anyone with real insight has repeated their points more than 50 times and will probably not discuss him, while retards will be completely fine shitflinging about him as many times as he comes up. If you want to fix 4chan, it's userbase needs to be purged, and only true effortposters and dedicated users need to remain. Otherwise, it'll remain in the state of a corpse attracting flies.
Perhaps I am misunderstood, I am not against the contrarian nature of 4chan and it's affinity for esoteric topics, quite the contrary I've read Guenon thanks to /lit/'s exhortation. They've done a good deed by remembering and reminding people of forgotten works, but as you've said most of them were shit, of course among the pile of shit there were few gems. I don't have much experience with /mu/ so I won't comment on that, but I assume their situation is similar to /lit/ and other boards we've discussed, regarding the lack of experimentation and loss of wonder, it's true for /lit/.


If we were to assume that unearthing of new things is the essence of 4chan, we can safely say, 4chan is dead. And from that point begins modern 4chan that is the antithesis of original 4chan that you speak about. If original 4chan was characterized by wonder, joy of discovery and a sense of history held up by veteran effort-posters the modern 4chan is about dullness, repetition and endless shitflinging. The main demographic of 4chan aging also contributed to this, new posters' ignorance in treating it as if it's just another social media was certainly the killing blow to the already weakened site.


It's impossible to fix the site, all the energy that was there migrated elsewhere and all that remains is a soulless husk. It could only serve as a market place where cattle grunt and walk around all day, until a superior specimen descends and blinds them with the light of Truth.


Quote:As for good literature, I loved reading the book Laurus, by Eugeny Vodolazkin, recently. Not sure if it's "amarnacore", as it's very Christian, but it's good.
Thanks for the recommendation, It certainly isn't amarnacore but the setting sounds interesting.
#6
(09-24-2023, 04:42 PM)Virtue Wrote: This thread is very violent but not in the same manner the Undertale thread is. Here insects step on one another to best one another using strategies that requires no intelligence whatsoever, the will to power is certainly there but it is manifested in such a botched way that someone with even a slight intellectual concern would be repulsed. Undertale thread is violent as well but it is violent in a way similar to Homer's Contest, there is ''cruelty, tigerish lust to annihilate''. Superior men fight one another using the most complex and superior method to crush their enemies. So when a sole lion emerges from the earthly masses what does the herd do? Nothing, they do nothing. Is it their fault? Is the thread too noisy to pay attention to the words of the lion? Perhaps. I treat worthless posts as noise since they occupy space without providing anything and prevent thought from forming properly. So should we engage and insist on replying to these retards? I can't help but think that it's a futile effort and the lack of reaction to above reply confirms my sentiment. I hereby withdraw from that thread as now it is simply a museum piece to look and analyze what is wrong with /lit/ and 4chan as a whole. Final word from icycalm.

Well put, essentially most of /lit/ now. What keeps these people going?

(09-25-2023, 11:15 AM)turnip Wrote: Part of the problem is with the people there not reading, yes, but I think the other part of it is related to the same neuroses that permeate the whole site, of which the ritualized impersonal meme-babble is only the most obvious. It doesn't really matter how much you force yourself to read, when your interest in reading is to affect a sage schizo wiseman shitposter personality, this will almost invariably cloud your ability to meaningfully engage with the writing of people who had their own ideas. Even when they do read, most people seem to be incapable of formulating their own intuition and unity of perspective out of the things they've read. It's not like anyone on 4chan is likely to notice if you haven't.

Good observation. The board even developed a word for it, hylic (also for those that don't get poetry). Further awareness of it one finds when they talk about YT characters like Steve Donoghue, who has read thousands of books but who when asked about any of them can only muster "it was good".
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

I started visiting and posting on /lit/ in 2020, which means I never got to experience its best days. That sentiment, that the board was in a sorry state and unlikely to get any better, was something one could quickly pick up: most of the ills that have been mentioned so far were already present back then (the insect meme wars and the lack of good effortposting). Yet I still recall there being worthwhile posts, better trolling, and a livelier set of factions committed to longer-than-a-sentence discussions, Guenonians, Landians, Jungians, Bloomers, Straussians, etc. Maybe it’s just that I was younger, but I think it was decidedly better than it is now.

Be that as it may, /lit/ was of great use to me. Beyond everything others mentioned, I gained three things. First, out of a pressing need not to be a pseud and to truly get what I was reading, I started reading slowly, rereading and annotating: going from SF and realist/easy Modernist prose to the more elaborate Modernists and Postmodernists took long, but it bore its fruits, even when revisiting the authors I had always enjoyed. Second, I learned to better appreciate writers I liked and to figure out why I liked them, if anything in order to systematize my intuitions and to make worthwhile posts. Third, I became familiar with many of the subcultures and started to have (sad that it took so long) a notion of the internet’s past and of the paths that were available to me beyond 4chan and beyond what I had up to then read. 

As for the decline, two theories. Braindrain to X dot com, where both trolling and effortposting are way more rewarding. Perhaps there is way less exposure to other currents and even-grounded debate, less freedom and more commitment to past posts, but still a far better place to have fun. OTOH, /lit/ cannibalizing itself, as Virtue has hinted at, through its rejection of plebs, pseuds, and hylics (plebs don’t read, pseuds read but mostly pretend to, hylics read but don’t get it). As soon as you’ve read most of the board’s favorite books and learned how to post, it becomes clear that you’re largely alone, that most haven’t read enough to be pseuds, and that if you don’t go elsewhere you’ll never know if you’re a hylic or not. But what are the alternatives?

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

More /lit/ culture:

/lit/ characters: Quentin, RC Waldun, Katie, Mike Ma, Steve Donoghue.
/lit/’s eternal posts: „What did he mean by this?“, „What did I think of it?“,  „Oh anon what are you reading?“ (more often a twink than a girl picrel), Moby Dick, Lolita’s best cover, gay autistic incel Henry James, the Judge, He rapes his sister, Phoebe, Harold Bloom stretched his legs, Nabokov’s notes, Taleb and Rushide, /fitlit/.
#7
Somebody's upset they couldn't get into Pykewater
#8
As said in the shitbox, my usage of /lit/ was from 2016 to 2018, with 2018 being the point where my lurking tapered off. When considering only its best qualities, /lit/ appears to have inspired certain young men to study what was considered the best literature and other related things. Part of what made the board itself vital was not an aspect it originated but adopted for its own benefit: the distinction between the plebeian and the patrician taste, which was also used on boards like /mu/ for a time. The natural conclusion which a person could draw, if they were inclined to adopt a patrician character, would be to focus on the classics or high-quality literature. For /mu/ this would require dedication to obscure or experimental music. Such people were considered avant-teens and later described as “embryos”. I want to post some images from the Quentin trip and images inspired by him, precisely because it serves my point. Of course, it is mostly intended to be bait, but it does eventually lead to a short-lived trend on the site where people began to view themselves as patricians.

There was one image I was attempting to find but all search engines are a pain in the ass, so you’ll have to forgive me. That image was a tier-list in which literature was at the very top and video games at the bottom. Disagreeable and meant to cause a stir on /v/ but nonetheless a type of character on the blue boards. 

[Image: https://i.ibb.co/hYrnMFG/Quentin-2.png]

[Image: https://i.ibb.co/TLQ5sPP/Quentin-1.jpg]

[Image: https://i.ibb.co/bd9XrHP/Avanteen-Quentin.png]

The seriousness of Start With the Greeks and posting certain charts reveals a mental change in certain posters, who have now either migrated to other sites or have completely gone extinct. They, being people who strive for a patrician taste and patrician sensibilities, seek to ignore the vulgar. Ulysse Bouchard used to go under the tripfag title of Tallis from 2013 to 2014, and practiced his own vein of Start With The Greeks:

[Image: https://i.ibb.co/TP4kjvZ/tallis1.png]



[Image: https://i.ibb.co/6vZhhQZ/tallis2.png]

His trip was also used on /mu/ and, if my memory was correct, his posts were mostly about Western classical music. The Tallis posts, in sum, are built from a elitist starting-point. Though he reformed his online identity in multiple ways, the effort of tastemaking has remained intact, but geared towards certain other subjects. Instead of Starting With The Greeks, his tastes then were reformed into Nietzsche, then Deleuze, then standard leftist academia retardation (such as The Invisible Committee). I will not attempt to make armchair psychology about the person who chooses a tripcode, because the tastemaking habit is not limited to tripfags, but it is clear that Ulysse desires an audience, or more directly, an audience of students. He is a test-tube baby of academia. Anyways, let us speak more generally on the Start With The Greeks proclamation.

Starting With The Greeks was the best possible way to affirm the patrician taste. It is an act forever reserved for the few, extremely difficult to democratize. Furthermore, what classicists exist are almost exclusively found in the universities; their presence has not been appropriately accomdoated anywhere else. This is similar for the avant-teen taste, because obscure/experimental/hostile music would only be found in urban settings pre-Internet. Iannis Xenakis, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Morton Feldman are a few composers that the avant-teen is driven to appreciate, but the knowledge could only be arrived at through a close-knit intellectual circle or a university education. It can be accurately predicted that a lot of avant-teens would have listened to Top 40 pop music if it wasn't for the Internet. I leave it to the reader to determine if this is a positive or negative thing.

Speaking personally, I was able to circumvent the public school system through using /lit/. Like other posters, I had only a faint mental residue of the Western Canon and no comprehension of the whole --- a public school teacher has no responsibility to help you along this path of true education because they were never aware of it to begin with. Blind leading the blind, each successive generation losing a larger fragment of knowledge, and a minority retaining it in silence. With knowledge of /lit/ and some sudden school dysfunction that gave me leisure, I was able to have an accelerated process of learning. It was decided not by others around me but by others who had acquainted themselves with the classical, the medieval, and the modern; what superficial interpretations or understandings they possibly had was unknown to me, because they were the only voices worth listening to. Alas, a disillusion started to take root. Once you begin to acquaint yourself with these readings and these series of names, you notice a repetition in the threads. By the time I started using the /lit/ board in particular, 4chan was in a state of decline. It is arguable that the intense growths of the userbase had degraded the patrician tendency, because each person arriving would have to retrace the steps of older anons. Here you will begin to observe how 4chan becomes 4mex. Discussions start to repeat and the same "insights" are shared ad infinitum.

The Nietzsche thread which you mentioned has been repeated numerous times with the same style of posters. It is almost universally shallow, with detractors repeating the same criticisms against Nietzsche, and proponents having very little interesting things to say in his favor. One theory that I've created about this is related to academic interpretations: Nietzsche the philosopher, Nietzsche the person, Nietzsche the influencing spirit, are all each shattered into a thousand pieces. When one attempts to write something about him, they may be forced to contend with a multitude of interpretations — Ernst Bertram, Alfred Baeumler, Domenico Losurdo, Deleuze, Foucault, Heidegger, and the various translators like Kaufmann who wish to instill their own complete interpretation of his life and writings. Even the Colli-Montinari Nachlass is an act of interpretation, as it sought to deny the legitimacy of The Will to Power. To the 4mex anon who has neither the time nor the patience to go through these ordeals, they either must endure vacillation or write on impulse. You cannot immediately determine what Nietzsche is "all about" from reading at a regular pace (hence why he explicitly demanded "slow readers", but that's for another time), it must be handled with care. By his own admission, he is dynamite. Normally, if there was a vital and engaged set of posters, an interpretation could be produced. But, as the userbase has increased, the ability simply isn't there. The result is aimless arguments flung back and forth, each participant not very invested in the debate.

This isn't to say that posters don't seek to uncover the obscure or forgotten, but it is a perverted impulse compared to previous anons. Guenon was usually mentioned in the archives around 2010, becoming more frequent by 2013 and common around 2016. But the path was set first by much earlier anons, and the new ones receive this without much change. There are either those of the Traditionalist sort who believe Guenon to be their own personal master or those who deride him for esotericism and other related terms. It is definitely an aspect of /lit/ culture, to be sure, but my point is that they are unable to handle the subject-matter they discuss. Same goes for the Meme Trilogy as well, even though I only appreciate Joyce's Ulysses out of the three.

Because I was always disinterested in the prospect of /lit/-writers, I cannot say anything about them.

Quote:''Charts'' —— Best part about /lit/, sharing charts and gathering them has always been a fun and interesting experience, I've used to collect them and thanks to the charts I've found some very obscure books but I've never made a chart before maybe I should make one. We definitely need a Amarna reading Chart. Athenians had the Illiad what do the Amarnites have? Here is a good archive of them
I would be interested in what an Amarna reading chart would look like, even though I am somewhat hesitant about the idea. Perhaps it would be a successful effort if it was an expansive multimedia chart, where the essentials are set in stone.
#9
(09-29-2023, 06:32 PM)JohnTrent Wrote: [Image: https://i.ibb.co/TLQ5sPP/Quentin-1.jpg][Image: https://i.ibb.co/bd9XrHP/Avanteen-Quentin.png]

The way these charts turn books into pictures is nasty baggage from music discourse. An album cover usually has a definite appearance, is recognizable at a glance, and often serves as a "companion" to the work and integral part of its aesthetic; a book's cover is none of those things. Excepting a few deliberately artful designs (Ulysses, Atlas Shrugged, Catch-22) these charts show a mishmash of disparate images chosen after-the-fact by random publishers, which the board's users have broadly agreed on mapping to works to establish a visual "language"; I suspect this shapes people's thought-processes in insidious ways.

You can quite easily intuit the layers of contrarianism and meta-contrarianism that structure these images. Let's start with the music chart, which is probably satirical - its layers are cleaved at the joints by music subcultures, unlike the book chart, which is smart enough to muddle things a bit to give an air of eclecticism. The "shit tier" is stuff a preteen freshly disillusioned with radio pop would listen to; the "low tier" is the early-tens p4k-Fantano consensus; the "mid tier" is RYMcore sensu lato; the "high tier" is dreary twentieth-century baggage; the "god tier" is a reification of the lower tiers, it says, "this mark is where I transcend music, thus music is a finished product, thus what's directly below this is the apex of music". This chart seems primitive in hindsight when you consider the strides in Chartistry that /mu/tants have made since, such as limiting or obscuring the higher tiers, or burying the standard /mu/ fare in a list of generic-but-obscure pop and rock albums (a million times more effective as a signal of "taste" (that's all that matters here, perceived "taste") because it's like plumbing the ocean for the biggest fish - you could conceivably listen to every industrial or vapor album ever made but not every rock album).

The frothing disdain for those just a bit "above" popular tastes is carried over into the book chart, whose lower layers can be neatly divided into school set-texts (Hamlet, Huck Finn, To Kill a Mockingbird), pop-culturally controversial works (Lolita, Atlas Shrugged, Catch-22), and "books for girls" (Wuthering Heights, The Bell Jar, Pride and Prejudice). Vituperating too hard against Atlas Shrugged would make him sound like a Jon Stewart goon so he puts it in mid-tier, damning it with faint praise as they say. People often bring up Brave New World as a rejoinder to 1984 so he puts the latter faaaaar above the former to show how EPICALLY he's preempted them. Crunchy American books in every stratum. A tasteful trapezoid of negrophilia.

(09-29-2023, 06:32 PM)JohnTrent Wrote: Same goes for the Meme Trilogy as well, even though I only appreciate Joyce's Ulysses out of the three.

I couldn't think of a graver insult to Ulysses than being bracketed by those two.
#10
(09-29-2023, 06:32 PM)JohnTrent Wrote: I would be interested in what an Amarna reading chart would look like, even though I am somewhat hesitant about the idea. Perhaps it would be a successful effort if it was an expansive multimedia chart, where the essentials are set in stone.

Mikka posted a chart a couple years ago, though it's certainly outdated and at-least partially a tongue-in-cheek rejoinder to Ulysse:

#11
The avant-garde music chart is a meme; it includes notorious joke albums like Voices of North American Owls, and By Request Only. It was created during the middle era of /mu/, to poke fun at people who’s taste was essentially trying to find the most obscure music and then belittling those who liked less obscure music. It’s interesting how /mu/ evolved in this way, from being a forum to try and find good music to being a forum to try and flex your obscure music taste… I find this to be the general fate of all forums; becoming a perverse form of what they originally were.
#12
(09-29-2023, 11:46 PM)Guest Wrote: The avant-garde music chart is a meme; it includes notorious joke albums like Voices of North American Owls, and By Request Only. It was created during the middle era of /mu/, to poke fun at people who’s taste was essentially trying to find the most obscure music and then belittling those who liked less obscure music. It’s interesting how /mu/ evolved in this way, from being a forum to try and find good music to being a forum to try and flex your obscure music taste… I find this to be the general fate of all forums; becoming a perverse form of what they originally were.
Meant to respond to this earlier. I don't really have a problem when it comes to "obscure music taste", especially if it yields those share threads where anons would find whatever album they could and upload it to MEGA for others to download. If you were around for What.CD, a similar story emerges where anons uploaded whatever album they could to maintain a good ratio. Finding music is a game of trial-and-error, with multiple people defending a bad obscure record because of the work they put into finding it. Ultimately, I think the benefit of finding music is greater than the negative of a few anons defending a mediocre album.

Did you ever watch Chris Ott back in the day? I used to for a time, it's a time capsule of sorts. He used to be a writer for Pitchfork back when it was still subordinate to other music reviewer platforms (so late 90s - late 2000s), well before Condé Nast took control. After being a reviewer there for years, he was suddenly fired and his reviews were scrubbed from the Pitchfork main page. Apparently he was considered "sexist" by some but the controversy looks retarded so I wouldn't take stock in it. He was not affiliated with the trend of poptimism that slowly crept into Pitchfork, so his tastes were centered around indie rock. Unless if this has changed, I know that he doesn't ever try to review rap. There's a good segment here from 3:00 to 3:50 where he's using a specific album as an example of obscure music. I should say that all of the Shallow Rewards uploads have altered titles, so just ignore the constant homosexuality references in each Shallow Rewards entry.

[Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-Vp8RbPh9w]

Even though he mentions that people shouldn't call each other "fucking idiots" for not knowing an obscure record, /mu/ did have the potential for actually acquainting Internet users with an eclectic variety of albums, far more than the established critics ever could. This isn't new to music culture, it is a low-stakes affair to become a collector or someone who thumbs their nose at plebeians. It isn't quite like literature where a person has to actively dedicate years or decades of their life to thereafter become the man with patrician taste; you can passively take in such an extensive library depending on your genre of choice (industrial, ambient, etc.). The torch was passed to /mu/, and while it was a short-lived trend, it did at one point exist. I haven't been on /mu/ since 2017 but I'll guess that sharethreads aren't as frequent now.
#13
(10-03-2023, 11:33 AM)JohnTrent Wrote:
(09-29-2023, 11:46 PM)Guest Wrote: The avant-garde music chart is a meme; it includes notorious joke albums like Voices of North American Owls, and By Request Only. It was created during the middle era of /mu/, to poke fun at people who’s taste was essentially trying to find the most obscure music and then belittling those who liked less obscure music. It’s interesting how /mu/ evolved in this way, from being a forum to try and find good music to being a forum to try and flex your obscure music taste… I find this to be the general fate of all forums; becoming a perverse form of what they originally were.
[SNIP]

I agree with essentially everything written in this post, I think you've mistaken my statement. The problem isn't when people like obscure music, in fact I quite enjoy a lot of obscure music myself, but it does become a problem when someone believes the more obscure taste you have the better. /mu/ should be about discussion of all sorts of music, not just the obscure... some of the best discussion I've had on that board is about Bob Dylan.
#14
(09-29-2023, 11:05 PM)Chud Wrote:
(09-29-2023, 06:32 PM)JohnTrent Wrote: I would be interested in what an Amarna reading chart would look like, even though I am somewhat hesitant about the idea. Perhaps it would be a successful effort if it was an expansive multimedia chart, where the essentials are set in stone.

Mikka posted a chart a couple years ago, though it's certainly outdated and at-least partially a tongue-in-cheek rejoinder to Ulysse:

This is more evidence Mikka deserves to be shot. (Unless he's being ironic, in which he also deserves to be shot).

Mikka has extremely poor taste and I genuinely do find his provocations offensive.
#15
(10-05-2023, 03:38 AM)Guest Wrote: I agree with essentially everything written in this post, I think you've mistaken my statement. The problem isn't when people like obscure music, in fact I quite enjoy a lot of obscure music myself, but it does become a problem when someone believes the more obscure taste you have the better. /mu/ should be about discussion of all sorts of music, not just the obscure... some of the best discussion I've had on that board is about Bob Dylan.

Ah, okay. Understood. To be honest, I fail to remember most discussions on /mu/. I can see why that one goreposter (if you remember him) did what he did, because looking at that in that board in October 2023 just gave me a rare form of cancer. 

(10-05-2023, 10:15 PM)The Green Groyper Wrote: This is more evidence Mikka deserves to be shot. (Unless he's being ironic, in which he also deserves to be shot)

Mikka has extremely poor taste and I genuinely do find his provocations offensive.

Who do you pose as an alternative? I am very partial to Mikka.
#16
I dislike Mikka for his provocations(many stupid or badly considered), his artistic taste, and his political ideas. Which seem to be a lot of contrarianism mixed with open resentment of the wealthy.

As for alternatives, since when did we need one? Unless he serves some sort of role as a provocateur everyone thinks is necessary. I don't.
#17
(09-29-2023, 06:04 PM)Guest Wrote: Somebody's upset they couldn't get into Pykewater
Shitty group made by Rapture the tripfag, aka William Pennington. Who, no joke, died of cancer.

The bald faggot and pseud never contributed anything worthwhile. Too bad he never got that castle inheritance from his royal relatives in Britain not that he'd have done interesting with it anyway.
#18
(10-06-2023, 12:35 AM)The Green Groyper Wrote: I dislike Mikka for his provocations(many stupid or badly considered), his artistic taste, and his political ideas. Which seem to be a lot of contrarianism mixed with open resentment of the wealthy.

As for alternatives, since when did we need one? Unless he serves some sort of role as a provocateur everyone thinks is necessary. I don't.

It has always been obvious that Mikka is a resentful poorfag, which explains his obsession with inheritance tax. He regularly complains that it's impossible to make money and move up in the world and cries about the inability to become a homeowner when 105iq Whites regularly do this with ease. If you can't become a homeowner before you turn 30 you should admit you're a retard or simply don't have a drive to make money, not complain that it's impossible to do so because of generational wealth.
#19
(10-21-2023, 10:10 PM)Guest 2 Wrote: 105iq Whites regularly do this with ease.

https://archive.ph/OUHF0

Martin Wolf Wrote:Third, housing completions averaged 325,000 from 1950 to 1970 (inclusive) and reached a peak of 425,000 in 1967. But average completions were a mere 182,000 from 1990 to 2019.
Fourth, owner-occupation rose from 33 per cent in 1939 to 70 per cent in 2001, but fell to 64 per cent in 2018-19. Moreover, between 1997 and 2017, the proportion of people aged between 35 and 44 living in rental accommodation in England rose from 9 to 28 per cent.

[Image: https://i.imgur.com/uQuZbs2.png]
It's rapidly becoming not the case in his home country at least.
On that note, what first interested me in Mikka was how he argued the UK's town planning laws were a abomination and all life support should be cut to Northern cities as it prevents organic development, and whats the matter if London is dominant-and real patriotism came from the fruits of unshackled potential instead of trying to make hobbitville via local council subsidies. I would like to see if one tries to use his eccentric tax views as a wedge how they contradict the above instead of trying to make him out as some red guard fanboy for once.
[Image: https://i.imgur.com/3RVIe13.gif]

“Power changes its appearance but not its reality.”― Bertrand De Jouvenel
#20
(10-22-2023, 02:49 AM)NuclearAbsolutist Wrote:
(10-21-2023, 10:10 PM)Guest 2 Wrote: 105iq Whites regularly do this with ease.

https://archive.ph/OUHF0

Martin Wolf Wrote:Third, housing completions averaged 325,000 from 1950 to 1970 (inclusive) and reached a peak of 425,000 in 1967. But average completions were a mere 182,000 from 1990 to 2019.
Fourth, owner-occupation rose from 33 per cent in 1939 to 70 per cent in 2001, but fell to 64 per cent in 2018-19. Moreover, between 1997 and 2017, the proportion of people aged between 35 and 44 living in rental accommodation in England rose from 9 to 28 per cent.

[Image: https://i.imgur.com/uQuZbs2.png]
It's rapidly becoming not the case in his home country at least.
On that note, what first interested me in Mikka was how he argued the UK's town planning laws were a abomination and all life support should be cut to Northern cities as it prevents organic development, and whats the matter if London is dominant-and real patriotism came from the fruits of unshackled potential instead of trying to make hobbitville via local council subsidies. I would like to see if one tries to use his eccentric tax views as a wedge how they contradict the above instead of trying to make him out as some red guard fanboy for once.


Yes, the Jewish, labour supporting economist wants you to know it's just too hard to own your own home, so we have to increase the supply. Not different than what leftist filth everywhere always say. The price of homeownership has increased, sure, but no one earning six-figures (if you can't do this by 30, again, you're retarded) is having an issue becoming a homeowner. The rabble always complain that they can't compete in the current system and need the government to step in and save them. 

Per your own article, 64% of people still manage to become homeowners, so you're defending the 36% retard rabble who are unable to do so. 28% of young people need living assistance? Again, that means the vast majority do not. You're admitting how poorly you stack up to your contemporaries by allying with the have-nots in either scenario, basically the bottom 1/3 of your fellow citizens. Hilarious that someone who thinks of themselves as some kind of meritocratic elite can't even bring himelf into the more successful 2/3 of his nation's population.



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