Internet Tranny Sociology Thread

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[Guest]

escheviv agarmathel amu etehis esferytrie unil astim afermim

[Muskox]

Blanchard's typology is definitely insufficient, but there's a seed of truth in it. I've always thought it was kind of funny to call them "autogynephiles" when there is almost nothing more feminine than autogynephilia. Straight men, too, can experience arousal at the thought of themselves being masculine in some way. This is behind the huge number of people calling themselves bisexual these days, imo. There is a particular type of straight man who will say "well, I'm not gay, but..." about a male celebrity, and it's almost always some hulking ultra-ripped actor like Jason Momoa or the Rock. They aren't actually sexually attracted to John Cena, they're projecting themselves onto a man with a powerful, muscular body. Some men, particularly young teenagers, will confuse this selfish attraction for bisexuality. This phenomenon is much more prevalent among women because they habitually view themselves through the eyes of others, which is part of the reason that there is such a disproportionately large group of young women who identify as bisexual (although there are obviously other reasons). This accounts for nearly all of the women who fancy themselves "sapphic." They will either never have a sexual experience with a woman or dabble in it briefly and then continue on indulging in the narcissistic fantasy that they could love a sexy beautiful double of themselves for the rest of their lives, while exclusively dating men.

This speaks to the archive screenshot called "On the Lain Ideal" in the OP and also to some of the discussion in the thread. I think that the real difference between the so-called "homosexual transsexuals" and "autogynephilic transsexuals" is probably only a matter of scale, and possibly time like Zed said. That being said, Blanchard's work is a much more honest analysis of the topic than 99% of the research released in the past few decades. If autogynephilia and autoandrophilia are normal parts of female and male sexuality, respectively, then the idea of transgenderism as an "erotic target location error" still holds water.

The extent to which female-to-male transsexuals follow this pattern is another matter. Hardly any time has been spent on them in this thread, which isn't surprising. It might not actually be possible for men to understand them. There is probably a small, older group of FtM transsexuals who fit the autoandrophile description, but it doesn't seem like the case for most of the huge number of young girls transitioning today. Most of these girls seem to be driven more by the desire to be not-women rather than men. Maybe this is caused by an early exposure to the "negrofied twerking culture" as someone put it earlier, or some other type of sexual trauma. Oftentimes they don't seem too concerned with acting in a masculine way or having masculine interests, to the point where butch lesbians seem to fit the bill better than they do. A friend of my sister's began transitioning years ago and she still seems to prefer the company of women. The only masculine things about her are her hair and some tattoos (although tattoos seem to increasingly be the domain of women). I went to her birthday party a couple years ago and when one of the few men in attendance opened a can of beer, her roommate (a "non-binary" girl) said "testosterone alert." It doesn't seem to be a sexual thing for her and she has a very inhibited sexuality overall. I don't think she's ever had a partner. Another one of her roommates (a non-binary girl), on the other hand, apparently constantly had people from Grindr or something over and was very intent on bragging to me about her two girlfriends.

Maybe women would say similar things about "trans women." I'm not sure. Some of them certainly don't adopt feminine interests. But it seems to me that they are generally more intent on replicating female behavior, no matter how warped their idea is.

On a side note, when I've described my theory about bisexuality to people my age they have almost always been confused by it, but my dad knew exactly what I was talking about. Not sure why that is. Maybe it's because I've been primarily talking to people who are already confused in their sexualities, or maybe it's just that growing up in today's world stunts your ability to think clearly about any sexual matter.

[Guest]

It's just a man in the dress. Any more thought given to it is only useful/prudent tactically/strategically. It's a man in a dress, nothing more or less. Don't give it more thought than it deserves.

[NuclearAbsolutist]

Any more thought given to it is only useful/prudent tactically/strategically.

As a part of what plan? I for one have yet to see a plan to deal with facts like this

According to Gallup, the share of younger Americans who identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender has risen precipitously in the last decade. Almost twenty-one percent of Generation Z — meaning, for the purposes of the survey, young adults born between 1997 and 2003 — identifies as L.G.B.T., as against about 10 percent of the millennial generation, just over 4 percent of my own Generation X and less than 3 percent of baby boomers. Comparing the Generation Z to the baby boom generation, the percentage of people identifying as transgender, in particular, has risen twentyfold.

A massive UNNATURAL rise in people who in no uncertain terms were consider very abnormal in less than a decade(2015 sees the appearance of the Obama admin starting to use Title IX, to allow transgender bathrooms), seems to be at least good grounds to understand such important matters as mass social transformation especially how something as foundational and seen as natural as Western sexual mores can be twisted to mutant depravity. My desire for a answer to these trends has a simple justification, one usually has to UNDERSTAND a thing in order to understand how to PREVENT it. Unless the statement man in a dress actually has hides the answer for a twentyfold increase in queers, and to undo such a trend.

[JohnnyRomero]

I posted about this in the Shoutbox, but what's the deal with tranny overrepresentation in the US military? I feel like I see way too many military trannies than I should were the distribution normal. I wonder if it has something to do with what happens to you in the military, like PTSD or the strict training in service of ZOG, or perhaps instead with the type of person who joins the military (generally an aimless, identity-less, amoral idiot who can't get a good job anywhere else - the refuse). Here are a few anecdotal examples, please add any more if you think of them:

Fake whistleblower Bradley Manning:


This goober, "Dr." Levine, of course:


-ACK!


-ACK -ACK -ACK


"You scared, Putin?!"


One of the "Tranch" freaks:


Cinematic parallels:



A potential explanation given by an NBC News article from 2016:

According to the RAND Corporation, a private research group contracted by the Defense Department to explore the impact of trans personnel on the military, the number of transgender individuals currently serving in the active component of the U.S. military is somewhere between 1,320 to 6,630 (out of a total of about 1.3 million service members).

A separate report from the Williams Institute at UCLA, however, estimates the number to be significantly higher - about 8,800. This has led some researchers to speculate that transgender people join the armed services at a greater rate than people in the general population - and gender identity may be part of the reason.

“What some people have suggested is the higher prevalence of transgender people in the military is [due to the perception that it] is a very gendered institution. So if gender is something a person is struggling with, they may see the military as a place where they would be forced to maintain a particular gender norm,” said Gary Gates, a researcher who helped author the Williams Institute study.

Discuss please. Any insights from someone with actual military experience would be much appreciated.

[Muskox]

It could have something to do with the fact that many people who have weak or absent fathers join the military. As said earlier in the thread, that seems to be the case for a lot of troons too. Seems like using the military as a surrogate father works out for a lot of people. Maybe some are beyond reach. It could be that the increasing feminization of the military will lead to more of these cases.

[Zed]

I think the best way to understand this is to recognize that being a tranny is not exactly a binary state. People become trannies over time as they surrender any sense of masculine self-regard - see my reflections on dysphoria machines earlier in the thread. Still, before that masculine self-regard actually terminates, it can often attempt to radically assert itself as a last-ditch survival mechanism. Lots of trannies, before they accept themselves as trannies, attempt to do things that are perceived as highly masculine to claim an external perception of manliness (which they hope in turn leads to an internal one).

Tranny cops, bodybuilders, soldiers - if you ask them, they will often honestly answer that they believed that doing such things would make the desire to be a woman go away.

[Guest]

posted about this in the Shoutbox, but what's the deal with tranny overrepresentation in the US military?

What comes to mind is a former SF operator turned tranny MMA fighter who has severely battered his female opponent. I remember seeing it make headlines a year or two ago and the guy was not even trying to pass, which made me think how many of them are trying to game the system without genuine transsexual inclinations, whether they wish to attain financial benefits or just to garner attention and entertainment.

[JohnnyRomero]

Still, before that masculine self-regard actually terminates, it can often attempt to radically assert itself as a last-ditch survival mechanism. Lots of trannies, before they accept themselves as trannies, attempt to do things that are perceived as highly masculine to claim an external perception of manliness (which they hope in turn leads to an internal one).

Tranny cops, bodybuilders, soldiers - if you ask them, they will often honestly answer that they believed that doing such things would make the desire to be a woman go away.

This is the best explanation I have heard, makes total sense. Thank you Zed YWABAW.

[anthony]

On the subject of military trannies, I think the lifelong institutionalised personality is a big factor here. The kinds of people who end up in the military, teaching, government bureaucracy, that kind of thing. The kind of person whose essence becomes entirely bound to imposed and pre-defined tracks. This kind of vitally crippled character who can only think in received terms seems like an obvious vulnerable target for trooning out. They are well positioned to get a lot of power without any idea what to do with it in the 21st century, and will feel inherently dysphoric over being alive. The one day the culture shift signal goes out and the USA has an army of troon colonels, admirals, heads of bureaucracies, etc.



How many people have seriously tried to imagine the life of "Rachel Levine" before this happened? Such a stunningly dry wikipedia page. Jew striver family produce son who must also strive. Hits the books as a good studious boy and just keeps at it until he's in Harvard and then medicine and then the white house. Also at some point along the way this happened. Accepting the possibility of becoming this was probably the freest this poor man ever felt in his life.

[JohnnyRomero]

How many people have seriously tried to imagine the life of "Rachel Levine" before this happened? Such a stunningly dry wikipedia page. Jew striver family produce son who must also strive. Hits the books as a good studious boy and just keeps at it until he's in Harvard and then medicine and then the white house. Also at some point along the way this happened. Accepting the possibility of becoming this was probably the freest this poor man ever felt in his life.

Transitioning as surrogate freedom. A very powerful insight.

[Unformed Golem]

On the subject of military trannies, I think the lifelong institutionalised personality is a big factor here. The kinds of people who end up in the military, teaching, government bureaucracy, that kind of thing. The kind of person whose essence becomes entirely bound to imposed and pre-defined tracks. This kind of vitally crippled character who can only think in received terms seems like an obvious vulnerable target for trooning out. They are well positioned to get a lot of power without any idea what to do with it in the 21st century, and will feel inherently dysphoric over being alive. The one day the culture shift signal goes out and the USA has an army of troon colonels, admirals, heads of bureaucracies, etc.

But our entire society is heavily institutionalized -- what sets the military apart isn't its institutional character (which is highly overstated, especially for lifers) but its inherent masculinity. This is generally positive but it also has a downside, that you're constantly having your masculine character evaluated and odds are you don't win every time (especially if the comparison is younger, more virile you before the late-midlife T crash).

I don't have much sympathy for old people anymore but the natural life pattern for "over the hill colonel" is as an "old man patriarch". But that role is just as hard to assume as any other normal social pattern -- not impossible but far less likely than in the past. And of course old weirdos are now positively encouraged to publicize their various sexual dysfunctions, obviously not the case in the past.

[Zed]

https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/wh...ple-report

This is interesting -  it relates to something that I observed about myself since quite a long time ago. I still have marked hyper flexibility in my fingers - but when I was younger, I used to be able bend my wrist back to the point of horrifying people. Something I did quite often in middle school.

[Muskox]

That is interesting. I've always had certain hyper-flexible joints and had to do physical therapy when I injured one a couple years ago (turns out it's difficult for the muscle to heal when it is constantly being over-extended). My physical therapist thought I might have a hypermobility disorder at first... until I told her I've never been able to touch my toes with my legs extended.

At any rate, I think it's likely that there is one (twofold) major reason for this: people with hypermobility disorders are less likely to engage in sports and physical play in childhood for obvious reasons, and people who do not engage in sports and physical play for whatever reason do not build up strength around joints that reduces their flexibility. Being a nerd who didn't play little league is evidently a risk factor for transgenderism, autism or not. If the relationship holds true for FtM, though, I'm don't think this is a sufficient explanation.

The bit about weighted blankets and tight clothing was interesting too. I wonder how many of the 19th century men wearing corsets and writing in to the Englishwoman's Domestic Magazine would be considered autistic if they had been born a bit later.

[Guest]

Ancient man conquered cities by stiff joints.
You sit at bar and pull hyper-mobile joints with gf.
YOU ARE GAY

[Zed]

A simple "troon breakfast question" would be the following: "Are you capable of identifying with something that you are not?". Ask this of any tranny, and the vast majority will reply with something akin to "Of course I identify with womanhood, I AM a woman.". In their minds, identifying with is identifying as; having an affinity or interest in feminine things is constitutive of their entire self-conception, which is projected into material reality through medical intervention. "A woman is defined as someone who identifies as a woman".

This way of thinking extends far beyond just trannies, take for example the trend of Hazommedans malding over anime profile pictures. In one of his streams (which I will refrain from sharing here in the spirit of not spreading ugliness), the bellowing Arab himself repeatedly asks his interlocutor with a GochiUsa avatar "Why do you want to be a little girl?" This isn't rhetorical, he literally believes that choosing a profile picture means that you want to be the character chosen, as he goes on to explain that he would choose an epic bearded guy(spiritually FTM) for his own. This would explain why on Twitter this group tend to pick Socialist Realist art, or worse yet, their own chink faces with glowing red eyes.

This gets into the topic of pfp physiognomy which is worth its own investigation.

Too simple, there is an exoteric/esoteric distinction. Trannies identify as trannies, by and large - at least to themselves and to other trannies. There is a small subset with the delusion implied (full acceptance of both sides of the double-bind), but the delusion itself is something of an artifice in general. Absolute total assertions of womanhood were a pre-condition for access to HRT up until around 2013, and that more or less served to manifest these kinds of behaviors. Although I still see the pattern in trannies 40-50+, it barely holds with millennials, and not at all with zoomers. 

From an exoteric perspective, "Trans Women Are Women" became a political mantra and trannies instinctively double-down on it when faced with external adversaries - because they have a sense that ceding any ground is tantamount to total self-annihilation. It does not exist as a statement of rational equality, or even self-perception, but a functionally as a slogan of ideological affiliation. 

Still, it is true that trannies, by and large, do not have a metaphysics of what being trans is. At best, the closest thing is a trans reading of feminist tracts gender performativity - largely deriving from Serrano's Whipping Girl. Much of this has been popularized in recent years by ContraPoints and it appeals (largely) to millennials with pre-existing feminist sympathies. In younger demographics, explicit feminism is traded for implicit feminism - together with (perhaps surprisingly) a hostility to explicit political feminism... a consequence of the ongoing "World War TERF"... Zoomer tranny metaphysics seem more self-consciously virtual but, unlike millennials, their virtual requires no justification. In my observations, I find that many justify their transition simply on the grounds that they desired it. Only amongst those who come from conversative families/backgrounds does one still consistently find elaboratively well-developed self-narratives justifying themselves to themselves.

[anthony]

Only amongst those who come from conversative families/backgrounds does one still consistently find elaboratively well-developed self-narratives justifying themselves to themselves.

Did you mean Conservative or did you actually mean families who talk a lot about stuff?

[Zed]

Only amongst those who come from conversative families/backgrounds does one still consistently find elaboratively well-developed self-narratives justifying themselves to themselves.

Did you mean Conservative or did you actually mean families who talk a lot about stuff?

Specifically Conservative, and somewhat more specifically - religious. The 'self-narrative retro-construction' process aligns at some proportionally with the tendency to have previously engaged in a repression.

[anthony]

Only amongst those who come from conversative families/backgrounds does one still consistently find elaboratively well-developed self-narratives justifying themselves to themselves.

Did you mean Conservative or did you actually mean families who talk a lot about stuff?

Specifically Conservative, and somewhat more specifically - religious. The 'self-narrative retro-construction' process aligns at some proportionally with the tendency to have previously engaged in a repression.

I get you. It's a very rough deal to have a sense of right paired with no serious preparation or cultivation towards any coherent and satisfactory ideal of right existence.