Internet Tranny Sociology Thread

[BillyONare]

Are you and your "wife" castrated? Is there a lot of discord between mutilated and intact trannies in the discords? Are these two qualitatively different personality types or the same insanity distanced by order of magnitude?

[Zed]

Are you and your "wife" castrated? 

God no. She intensely wanted SRS when I met her, and had high levels of dysphoria about it. I used what influence I had to cultivate in her in such a way that she could move past that. Nowadays, she enjoys having a penis, but it took more than two years of effort on my part to get her to that place.

 Is there a lot of discord between mutilated and intact trannies in the discords?

In general, none. There was for older generations, but that has faded away. For me personally? I'm very outspokenly anti-SRS and I go out of my way to meme against it. That does piss people off, but in a way that I find amusing. Eg, I post botched surgery results to troll. I've seen peoples lived ruined by it, including close friends, and I believe it should be discouraged harshly. Check what I wrote on the previous page w/r/t genital dysphoria being a meme.

Are these two qualitatively different personality types or the same insanity distanced by order of magnitude?

Essentially the same. Different people have different physical insecurities, and attribute/project their unhappiness onto different parts of their body. Some of the most beautiful, feminine, and passing trannies love having a dick - and some of the ugliest and most masculine desperately want a vagina. Of course, it can go the other way too... there are no hard and fixed rules. Self-aware trannies though, I think, often realize they have higher SMV as an uncastrated tranny than they would with a neovagina. We are, if nothing else, a rather common intense fetish for men. Without a cock, we just become a less desirable infertile simulacra.

---

Is transgenderism inherently a political identity? 

Inherently? No. Historically, it was just a medical condition. It remains as such in Iran and elsewhere. But in practice... It is and I wish it wasn't - but I think it has been manufactured as such. The construction was necessitated by a reorientation of the professional activist class post-Obergefell, who found on Tumblr the potential for a new client class to justify their grants/donations.

Do you think there's a difference between transgender lesbians and "straight" trannies?

At any given point, the majority of 'straight' trannies are temporarily-repressed tranny lesbians. This is a hard and fast rule. Many often get fucked by men for a few years to feel affirmed in their femininity. Eventually though, they find themselves falling madly in love with another tranny. Almost every tranny I knew who once self ID'd as straight is now in a long term relationship with another tranny. You can see this pattern play out in real-time with each new generation of /tttt/ tripfags.

For the minority of trannies that are genuinely straight, they do (or rather did) form a different subclass and subculture. Blanchard correctly noted in the 90s that they tend to be more naturally feminine from an early age, often have lower IQ, and do pass as women more effectively. Or at least, they did. One of the modern failings of Blanchard's AGP/HSTS model is that an increasingly large proportion of zoomer AGP trannies are able to effectively pass as female in a way that the AGP-class he studied in the 90s could not. In part this is due to starting HRT early, and it is also in part due to the fact that they are simply less socialized as men. Likely they retain sufficient neuroplasticity to modify their behaviors in line with feminine expectations. The lines are much blurrier now and HSTS/AGP trannies no longer form separate cultural ecosystems.

[Guest]

Gender exists on top of sex - it is the higher level process whose form jointly-shaped by the underlying biological components and the ambient culture. 

Gender and sex are synonyms. There is no such thing as gender distinct from sex. In every possible case, this definition of "gender" is an anti-concept. If your "gender" defined as such aligns with neither sex, then it's completely irrelevant. If it aligns with your own sex, then the distinction is entirely superfluous. If it aligns with the opposite sex, then it's incoherent: what makes the "female gender" female if it's fully independent of female biology? What is the "woman" that you "are" if not the woman YWNB?

Transgenderism is a lie that can only exist in reference to the biological reality which it denies. It's a metaphysical leech that depends on the uninitiated population (including many of its own acolytes) being too stupid to follow it to its conclusions. If we all took its precepts at face value, it would annihilate itself. Just like trannies do when faced with the crushing reality of what they have committed their souls to.

The rest of your comment in summary is just reiterating what I correctly ascertained and exposed already, that being a transparent conflation of performance in the sense of execution (athlete, musician) with performance as a ritual of boundless narrative creation (actor, pornographer). You are a pseud defending your fetish with apology invented by child molesters--it's a 110IQ reading comprehension shell game that only works on dimwits and cowards. I've misrepresented nothing, your troon gibbering simply fails instantly upon contact with reason.

[anthony]

Guest, you say that

To people who aren't psychosexually deformed, male and female social roles are just a basic constraint of existence and not something that has to be obsessed over and willfully materialized one way or the other.

If this were actually still true I feel like it'd be impossible for this issue to reach the point it's at. If male and female social roles are a 'constraint', why aren't people constrained?

Given that I am a man, acting in certain ways will advance my position toward achieving my goals; other behaviors will tend to harm my position

What does being a man have to do with this?

I observe that I certain problems or situations happen to me because I'm a man, and yet the idea that I could solve or otherwise separate myself from these circumstances by PRETENDING OTHERWISE is not the product of a sound mind.

I feel like you've misread the issue. I don't believe that the issue is a desire to escape from male circumstances and inhabit female ones. As I've suggested above, sex-determined social constraints don't exist anymore. 

"Being a carpenter is largely performative."
"Being the president is largely performative."
"Being 6'2" is largely performative."

These all sound reasonable. Even tall guys learn the 'tall guy' jokes, appropriate responses, etc.

If you consider Zed a man I don't understand what there is to be angry about.

You take certain actions that are likelier to advance a goal; you develop certain attitudes that make it easier to act; you present a context-appropriate aspect of oneself to interface with society; you cultivate certain habits in response to immutable constraints on your life.

What are some things you believe to be "immutable constraints on your life" that stem from your sex in the 21st century? I personally don't really believe that there are any and I believe that this has been observable for some time. Ivan Illich wrote his book 'Gender' suggesting this was already pretty much complete in America in 1982. I feel like you even say things that lead to this conclusion in this post.

The carpenter is a functional skill, the president is an executive decisionmaker with ceremonial duties, and being a certain height is just a physical fact. Manhood is all three of these things

This is approaching how Illich defined our old true gender roles. Ceremonial roles and duties, skills, obligations. Social life is organised around you doing particular things and not doing other things. This is no longer true. Man no longer has a social essence.

Man and woman are simply a pre-existing fact of reality

And do you believe that that fact extends beyond the presence or absence of a bulge in the blue jeans, as illich put it?

Zed said something interesting I want to run into here to make a point.

At certain levels extreme autism, both men and women fail utterly in their performance and you can witness something close to the absolute ungendered ideal: Overweight, messy hair, sweatshirt and sweat pants, awkward cadence, and extreme physical clumsiness.

Have you ever noticed an autist who didn't even have the accent of where they're from? I think that's a good example of how all social essence is learned and performed, and can be lost. The point Ivan Illich wanted to make in 'Gender' is that sexually determined social roles used to be like accents in our speech. So effortless and fixed that it couldn't even occur to anybody things could be another way. Even if everybody couldn't perfectly align, you were better or worse by this standard.

This is the point I've been trying to make all this post and I think it's the most productive thing that this thread could explore.

And guest your last post is frankly such stupid grug-seethe that there's no substantial reply to be made to it. I'm of half a mind to make a joke about you repressing something.

[Zed]

Gender and sex are synonyms. There is no such thing as gender distinct from sex. In every possible case, this definition of "gender" is an anti-concept. If your "gender" defined as such aligns with neither sex, then it's completely irrelevant. If it aligns with your own sex, then the distinction is entirely superfluous. If it aligns with the opposite sex, then it's incoherent: what makes the "female gender" female if it's fully independent of female biology? What is the "woman" that you "are" if not the woman YWNB?

Are there women who act masculine? Men who act feminine? Yes. Have there always been such? Yes. Have concepts of masculinity/femininity always existed apart from the basic sexual classification of male/female? Certainly for the past four thousand years. Trannies existed long before the concept the concept of gender came into use - but any serious attempt study such would have quickly necessitated the invention of such a concept. Imagine: Plato time-travels to 2022, astonishingly discovers 'weird men dress and act like women', and is thus forced to posit the existence of idealized 'gendered forms' - before proceeding to have a mental breakdown over the fact that all the cute nubile youths are cutting off their cocks.

...with apology invented by child molesters.

I love this kind of lower-RW midwit reasoning. It is the mode of reasoning that systematically dismisses entire schools of thought because they are associated with a political currents you find disdainful. Reminds me of the writers at Claremont who churn out the poorly written bimonthly article on Foucault Was Stupid [And fucked children!], despite him having two or more standard deviations on their midwit asses. Yes, you can hate Foucault, Derrida, and Deleuze - and you could make a solid rigorous case against them, or against any of the queer theorists who followed in their path. There are many ideas there that can be justifiably torn apart. However the innovation of the word gender was one of better ones, as it gave a way to speak about behavioral coding in a way that was fundamentally neutral and temporally localized.

Yet you... You are the uniquely retarded sack of shit who probably busted a few blood vessels in rage when Michelle Obama suggested school diets should be healthier, and yet nodded in Soyjak-glee when the great @SeedOilDisrespecter said the same.

[Guest]

Hello Zed. Do you think there is an impetus for men to transition into women because in their heads, they think of it more as "switching to the winning team", believing that men have no value in the world today and that the only value that can be found is by becoming a woman?

[Zed]

Hello Zed. Do you think there is an impetus for men to transition into women because in their heads, they think of it more as "switching to the winning team", believing that men have no value in the world today and that the only value that can be found is by becoming a woman?

It happens, but it is not super common. Certain incel communities promote a form of it called trannymaxxing, and some have actually done it. The most entertaining manifestation of it is a certain cult (really just one guy) known as Vintologi. It blends Social Darwinism, Pragmatic Amoralism, Eugenics, and Trannymaxing. 

It makes for a fairly entertaining read.

The Vintologi Manifesto: 

https://archive.org/details/vintologi26/mode/2up

The Vintologi Guide To Trannymaxxing:

https://archive.org/details/transmaxxing2/mode/2up

The author of Vintologi manifesto is not himself a tranny... he just really, really, seems to enjoy the idea of turning incels into trannies. His guide on how-to self induce dysphoria is priceless, and I include it in full here:

stepO: watch Yamada-kun to 7-nin no Majo.
stepl: watch Tatsuwan birdy decode.
step2: watch Kashimashi girl meets girl.
step3: watch Kampfer.
step4: Watch some episodes of ranma 1/2 and cheeky angel.
step5: If you still don't feel like becoming a girl watch tsf monogatari and residence.
step6: As a last resort you can try sissy hypno porn https://www.reddit.eom/r/sissyhvpno/wiki/index
step7: Go to a gender clinic if you need an official diagnosis at some point.
step8: Bank your sperm.
step9: Start hormone replacement therapy https://vintologi.com/posts/1808
steplO: Removal of unwanted hair.
stepll: Facial feminization surgery.
step 12: Social transition https://n2t.net/ark:21206/10025

[Guest]

>If you're a boy and you sit with your legs the wrong way, you get called a faggot. If you are a girl and you speak too loudly and aggressively, you get told the behavior is ugly and unfeminine.

I just fundamentally do not understand what relationship there can be between the realization of a given behavioral trait that a person has being closer to the average of the set of all women rather than to the average of the set of all men (emotional variability, "crossing your legs" (lol), speaking quietly, etc.) - and engaging in any of the behaviors which trannies engage in. Also, people speak about anti-"grug"-reaction, but the mental state of any such "grug" seems exactly as inaccessible as the mental state of a woman.

[anthony]

I just fundamentally do not understand what relationship there can be between the realization of a given behavioral trait that a person has being closer to the average of the set of all women rather than to the average of the set of all men (emotional variability, "crossing your legs" (lol), speaking quietly, etc.) - and engaging in any of the behaviors which trannies engage in.

Admitting hopeless befuddlement only works as an own if everyone else present is as utterly confused as you.

Also, people speak about anti-"grug"-reaction, but the mental state of any such "grug" seems exactly as inaccessible as the mental state of a woman.

You do get it. At least better than you let on. It's not about averages. It's about cultures and standards. And yes this is what I find disagreeable about tranny culture. What should be an escape from standards is diverted into adherence to a new standard. At least in the worst cases. Our new friend Zed seems rather open minded, even if in possession of a few strangely fixed ideas on identity.

[JohnnyRomero]

Hello all. I have only read the first page of this thread - will read the rest later. Found it very engaging and interesting. I would like to contribute by dropping this website, which I believe very effectively displays the aesthetic of a specific, older sort of Internet Tranny.



Orion's Arm - Encyclopedia Galactica



This is a collective sci-fi worldbuilding project that I have stumbled upon a few times over the years while reading up on somewhat related stuff, and it has always fascinated me for a few reasons, most of which have to do more so with the very specific milieu it represents rather than any of the content within (which is par-for-the-course junk "content" as most worldbuilding, especially when done for its own sake, tends to be). The milieu in question would be high IQ Gen Xer sci-fi nerds, the kind of people who dominated the 'Net in the 2000s and, I believe, formed the early tranny vanguard. Think the archetype of the SA goon turned Twitter troon.



Of first note is the obviously dated "Old Internet" aesthetic: the website's design is simultaneously flat and stilted but also rather cluttered, in contrast to modern Web 2.0 minimalist junk.

[Image: orion.png]



All of the images are also the sort of ugly, primitive CG "art" that reminds me of cheap sci-fi stock footage or old fetish animations.




But the key element of this site that points to its core tranny nature is the nature of its own sci-fi universe. Within this fictional world there is a huge emphasis on all of the classic tropes of transhumanism - genetic modification, cybernetics, mind uploading, etc. Society has become post-scarcity and humans are now completely free to modify themselves as they wish, becoming whatever weird robot or alien freaks that they desire. Note that such a conflictless world is fundamentally boring and gay, which is why this exists as a masturbatory worldbuilding project and not an actual story, because those need to be engaging (i.e. have conflict).

Observe how the site describes literal normal humans, which is clearly a lot of projection on the part of the authors (the wordage reeks of haughty liberal descriptions of "Trumpland."

Baseline Human: Those poor beings are still stuck at the level of Homo sapiens sapiens. Mostly associated with luddites, human supremacists, or other fringe minorities. There are however, a number of isolated habitats and polities, and even some reserves and parks, inhabited almost solely by baseline humans, which have shown themselves to be remarkably fecund in the appropriate environment. Nevertheless, their numbers have been slowly but steadily declining over the past several millennia, to the point that they are now considered by many observers to be an endangered species.

Wouldn't be a tranny sci-fi fantasy without virtual reality!

Virtuals encompass all sophont, sapient and sentient beings that predominantly exist entirely within virtual worlds. Many such virtual entities were originally embodied sophonts living in real, physical environments. Across the Terragen Sphere it is common for a physical sophont to spend time in virtual worlds, either by accessing a virtual avatar through their implants or by uploading their complete mindstate. However, for some, these are temporary visits, rather than the permanent state of those individuals. For others, they are born into a virtual state and remain in that state for an arbitrary length of time before becoming temporarily or permanently inactive.

Earlier commenters have made the connection between trannyism and this idea that "reality is all just words and information maaaan" which is for obvious reasons very popular with mid- to high-IQ nerds; I would also posit a connection between both aforementioned concepts and transhumanism (with its ideas of an AI with a high enough IQ being omnipotent because nanomachines and the absurd idea of "mind uploading") and worldbuilding/data hoarding. I would put money on there being a large overrepresentation of this sort of Gen X, old guard autistic tranny on the likes of TV Tropes and whatnot. I think that their archetypal incarnation can be found in the Wachowski Brothers. It all starts with "What if it's all just a simulation, lines of code, information that can be changed at will, maaaan?" and ends with, well...


I would say that a common, and rather obvious, baseline in all of these things is a hatred of Nature and the Body, which also underlies Gnosticism, as some previous commenters have alluded to. The steady throughline of "technology overcoming nature" present in this project has some hints of real Will to Power in it, but for the most part it's a sham imitation of real human advancement, more or less using advanced technology to create the safest and most comfortable and indulgent hedonistic adult daycare.

[Zed]

Orion's Arm - Encyclopedia Galactica

That site is incredibly interesting. Thank you for that.

I would say that a common, and rather obvious, baseline in all of these things is a hatred of Nature and the Body, which also underlies Gnosticism, as some previous commenters have alluded to.

It isn't really a hatred of nature. As much as sexual reassignment surgery (for example) is a vulgar and debased thing, I remain glad that our society permits it to exists. Experimentation on the body in the form of extensive surgical modifications, eventually neural implants, is fascinating. I believe it will lead to many horrors, some as of yet unimaginable - and it shall bring a new kind of hell to this world; but is that a good enough reason to turn away from it? I would like to know how far we can go down this path, and how deeply we can assert out will on nature... and... I digress, but... are we genuinely asserting our will on nature?  Or is such experimentation simply the next path selection (read: nature) led us to? I hold to the latter and perceive zero tension here.

Surgery and implants compose the left-handed route  - certainly, the one most glamorized by modern transhumanists - yet eugenics, sterilization programs, and designer embryos form a concurrent right-handed path. And both stand in mutual opposition to those forces which seek to elevate the body to a level of divine sacredness that forbids any conscious tampering. The opposition is that which lavishes human life and the human form with ludicrous value on account of its mere existence, and it denies us a telos towards greatness in immanence.

[NuclearAbsolutist]

I would put money on there being a large overrepresentation of this sort of Gen X, old guard autistic tranny on the likes of TV Tropes and whatnot.

Indeed and you have brought up a sub culture  I believe that is under discussed despite its  influence and sociological implications  in transgender circles. That being of course "Hard" Science Fiction which Orion's arm is a part of. To detail the genre would be too long and off topic for our purposes it can be simply defined as science fiction where the author anchors the world/plot in real physics and not technobabble made up by hack writers for Star Trek. The genre naturally is very masculine one would even say chudly especially the space age era classics of the genre with tales of all white male crew of scientists and engineers beating over aliens heads with the scientific revolution. I myself spent hours on the hard sci fi story and data mecca Atomic Rockets and read the blogs it recommended over and over. But as Johnny put perfectly there has always been especially now this undercurrent of  "using advanced technology to create the safest and most comfortable and indulgent hedonistic adult daycare."

That undercurrent has always been there and is now in full bloom spear headed by a generation of STEM sperglords who having succumbed to current trends have risen to become the new face of hard sci fi across the internet and wider science fiction and developing their own works with a small but growing pace. I will now put forth a example which I find fascinating not for any particular aesthetic mishap fineness  or uniqueness really but for the mindset it shows. https://beaconsinthedark.wordpress.com/2...ment-2063/

The TLDR of this story written as a fake news article along with some attached art pieces is the titular distant instrument is a massive self sustaining warehouse of severs that contain a digitized person. The article is like a NYT think piece with distant instrument acting as a plot thread as our fictional reporter gives out anecdotes on the issue of digitized persons and how often they are very anti social. One tale is this one which I have highlighted the part that made me howl with laughter and reveals the mind of the author who is a transgender(FtM) individual.



Pro social in the mind of the author of both of the real article and the fictional news paper is defined as helping gibs that for free against dastardly chud militas. I could write further on the meaning of such messages and topics by such  works in hard sci fi in relation to other tranny subgenres such as the low poly sad anime girl game  abominations such as "hopepunk" or how they tie into the transgender mind and social space but I would like to see others thoughts first.

[Zed]

This is approaching how Illich defined our old true gender roles. Ceremonial roles and duties, skills, obligations. Social life is organised around you doing particular things and not doing other things. This is no longer true. Man no longer has a social essence.

[...]

Have you ever noticed an autist who didn't even have the accent of where they're from? I think that's a good example of how all social essence is learned and performed, and can be lost. The point Ivan Illich wanted to make in 'Gender' is that sexually determined social roles used to be like accents in our speech. So effortless and fixed that it couldn't even occur to anybody things could be another way. Even if everybody couldn't perfectly align, you were better or worse by this standard.

This is the point I've been trying to make all this post and I think it's the most productive thing that this thread could explore.

A few remarks:

One of my longer ranging predictions on the future of the internet is related to new social formations. I think there is a predisposition in many circles to hope for large-scale change in a desired direction on this, either in the form of a restoration of traditional social norms, or a further entrenchment of 'globohomo' values. I tend to reject both, and see the future as far more Landian and fragmentary in nature.

The influencer-centric internet remains, in my estimation, in it's infancy. I believe the telos here is one of new kinds of cult formations based around lifestyles. If earlier variations of the internet were structured in terms of disjoint subject-matter based communities, the current variation is oriented towards communities focused around a few central or pivotal personalities, who are increasingly attempting to find ways to monetize both their presence and that of their collective fan communities. The massive proliferation of paid podcasts and substacks has been but the first step in this direction, as the most game-changing aspects have yet to be fully explored - the potential to sell not just a content, but a complete and fully packaged lifestyle where the community/lifestyle itself becomes part of the product. In the near future - subscribing to your favorite influencer will not just bring you access to content, but private communities, micro in-group dating platforms, access to local meetups... etc. This will essentially endow certain influencers (or small networks of such) with an incredible and potent cult-like influence over their followings. 

You will live to see 'Caribbean Rhythms Complete: Subscribe now for full access to ten different private telegram, private professional networks, dating micro-services (BAP Grindr), access to local meet-ups, elite bodybuilder mentorship programs, and receive a 30% discount at your local Gold's Gym/Bathhouse.'

The marketing beauty of this is that once you buy-in and become entrenched within such a system, it is very hard to get out. If your friendship network is constructed within a private ecosystem, you may end up part of that self-same ecosystem for the rest of your life.

This might seem disjoint from the core subject of this thread, but it isn't. Lain trannies are nothing if not a not precursor here. A pure decentralized lifestyle formation bred within a still decentralized ecosystem, which is inherently and fundamentally tied to the structure of that online ecosystem. Twitter trads are another great example of what is coming.  As was Andrew Tate. So are the Nick Fuentes flavor of Groypers. All fringe, but all precursors. As the technology adapts and caters to these new kinds of formations, we will soon see a lot of people literally buying into desired lifestyle - each of which will construct its own gender/sexual/cultural norms, which will become part of the value of the product. It will read as LARPing on an unprecedented scale, at least at first, yet if you larp at something long enough....

[anthony]

I believe the telos here is one of new kinds of cult formations based around lifestyles. If earlier variations of the internet were structured in terms of disjoint subject-matter based communities, the current variation is oriented towards communities focused around a few central or pivotal personalities, who are increasingly attempting to find ways to monetize both their presence and that of their collective fan communities. The massive proliferation of paid podcasts and substacks has been but the first step in this direction, as the most game-changing aspects have yet to be fully explored - the potential to sell not just a content, but a complete and fully packaged lifestyle where the community/lifestyle itself becomes part of the product. In the near future - subscribing to your favorite influencer will not just bring you access to content, but private communities, micro in-group dating platforms, access to local meetups... etc. This will essentially endow certain influencers (or small networks of such) with an incredible and potent cult-like influence over their followings.

I think you're pretty much completely right about all of this. The social vacuum can't last and were it not for geographic separation this would be insanely further along than it already is.

Are you familiar with the comedian turned social outcast streamer and cult leader Owen Benjamin? He strikes me as a particularly advanced case. He basically started doing rightward jokes and comedy and reading about conspiracy theories, which started limiting his company and incentivising tight company with weird rightward internetpeople, then he got mindslaved during an interview with the charismatic E. Michael Jones. After this his character took a distinctly religious turn, his streams started getting more and more regular, and his regulars started getting more regular.

Last I heard he's at the point of collecting tithes, planning communities, and his followers are marrying each other.

[Zed]

Are you familiar with the comedian turned social outcast streamer and cult leader Owen Benjamin? He strikes me as a particularly advanced case. He basically started doing rightward jokes and comedy and reading about conspiracy theories, which started limiting his company and incentivising tight company with weird rightward internetpeople, then he got mindslaved during an interview with the charismatic E. Michael Jones. After this his character took a distinctly religious turn, his streams started getting more and more regular, and his regulars started getting more regular.

I had heard of him in the past, but not the cult-ish bits. That is fascinating. One of the interesting things about such examples, including Fuentes and Tate, is that they all basically came to the party too early. The most successful examples of this model have yet to come, but they will happen within fairly mainstream social networks , which I expect will provide all the necessary tools and integrations to make the experience absolutely seamless - one of the remaining pain points of modern social media.

There is a fascinating political extrapolation here - as most of these new formations will exist within a mainstream corporatized ecosystem, it is likely that content-creators will be increasingly held liable for the behavior of their fanbases. Aside from existing trends towards AI assisted moderation, content-flow shaping, this will likely become one of the primary levers of hidden power in the future. High level influencers who buy into this new model are going to be implicitly tasked with the taming of their fanbase - and this will be notably prevalent on the right. And a good deal of influencers in that arena will likely (if grudgingly) come around to doing so - paying lip service to the current position of the Overton - especially when their ongoing livelihood is at stake.

[anthony]

The most successful examples of this model have yet to come, but they will happen within fairly mainstream social networks , which I expect will provide all the necessary tools and integrations to make the experience absolutely seamless - one of the remaining pain points of modern social media.

I agree, but with a couple more details. I think that mainstream social networks have more powerful effects because they link people more closely by geography than fringe networks. Q-Boomers are a more potent internet-spawned force because they can all just drive up and meet each other easily, because they're all from the same parts of America. And there are a lot of them. These are both because mainstream social networks are for less discerning crowds. As more and more people become socially unfulfilled neurotic cripples one will have an easier and easier time finding more influencers and more of their fellow influenced closer and closer to home, this will make that critical level of life integration more and more possible. And once this starts successfully happening the effect will snowball.

I think you're right that Tate and Fuentes were in this too early, not just that but we all are, in the sense that being an online chooser of culture and identity will likely be a real and supported way to live in the not too distant future. It makes life harder now, but I don't think it'll stay that way. The overly online jumped the gun a bit on abandoning our outdated social order. There isn't much payoff for getting here early.

[Zed]

I agree, but with a couple more details. I think that mainstream social networks have more powerful effects because they link people more closely by geography than fringe networks. Q-Boomers are a more potent internet-spawned force because they can all just drive up and meet each other easily, because they're all from the same parts of America. And there are a lot of them. These are both because mainstream social networks are for less discerning crowds. As more and more people become socially unfulfilled neurotic cripples one will have an easier and easier time finding more influencers and more of their fellow influenced closer and closer to home, this will make that critical level of life integration more and more possible. And once this starts successfully happening the effect will snowball.

Elsewhere on the internet, my wife writes manifestos about the need to create independent isolated strongly-bonded alt-T4T IRL communities, but without the polymorphous communal garbage that atrophies everything it touches. It's incredible how pervasive this desire is, and how readily it appeals to people; even (or perhaps especially) extremely online trannies. A mirror of what one can see at the fringes of nearly every modern subculture.

At a baseline level, trannies (of the mass market variety) have certain advantages over chuds [and other formations] in that localized tranny communities already basically exist everywhere in this country - identity alone is the price of admission. This happens even in places you wouldn't expect them to, such as random shitholes in the middle of Iowa. The downside is that they are near universally populated with extremely low quality people, and have ephemeral and impermanent nature. Never is there any sense of a permanent long-lasting community, a generation of long lasting bonds, let alone any sense of a vision. People come, people go. The real liberation that my wife tends to focus on is the fact that remote-work has made a lot of experimental visions in this area far more possible. 

All of this is to say - although these new communities will be more geographically disperse, and I agree that tools/apps will made enable local manifestations to pop more readily into existence... but I also expect a good deal of geographical movements of different groups to cluster in certain regions/communities. At least amongst those of us who have the privilege of remote-work. There is a fundamental and deep appeal there - of a larger IRL community - beyond just a cluster of a few like-minded people. But it may take individuals, such as Owen Benjamin, to actually get the ball rolling. When the technology finally align with this and people begin to recognize the  profit-potential of total lifestyle commodification, things will start to get incredibly interesting.

[JohnnyRomero]

Experimentation on the body in the form of extensive surgical modifications, eventually neural implants, is fascinating. I believe it will lead to many horrors, some as of yet unimaginable - and it shall bring a new kind of hell to this world; but is that a good enough reason to turn away from it? I would like to know how far we can go down this path, and how deeply we can assert out will on nature... and... I digress, but... are we genuinely asserting our will on nature?  Or is such experimentation simply the next path selection (read: nature) led us to? I hold to the latter and perceive zero tension here.

Surgery and implants compose the left-handed route  - certainly, the one most glamorized by modern transhumanists - yet eugenics, sterilization programs, and designer embryos form a concurrent right-handed path. And both stand in mutual opposition to those forces which seek to elevate the body to a level of divine sacredness that forbids any conscious tampering. The opposition is that which lavishes human life and the human form with ludicrous value on account of its mere existence, and it denies us a telos towards greatness in immanence.

Yes, I agree. I do not believe that these things (cybernetics, genetic engineering) are bad in and of themselves, but rather that they are improperly oriented in this particular tranny worldview. The height of human advancement and mastery of the world to make your Second Life (which I now realize is what the art on that site reminded me of - must investigate the Second Life-Old Guard Troon connection!) fursona real... disgusting! I dream of a world similar to a mixture of Warhammer 40k and Gene Wolfe's The Book of the New Sun, with a godlike emperor reigning over a vast interstellar empire striated by a complex, weaving, ever-shifting system of castes, ranks, and titles - the apotheosis of the Spanish colonial castas system. All of this will be led by a post-human Nietzschean aristocracy who will manipulate the genes of beast and lesser man alike to create worlds to their liking, beautiful worlds inspired by divine dreams of celestial beauty and adventure, rather than lowly, hedonistic, fetishistic fixations. All extinct beasts shall be resurrected (either cloned or re-built from scratch), cryptids shall be identified, captured, studied, and bred by secret society of imperial occultists, mythological creatures shall be brought to life, and these higher super-men (in both the Nietzschean and the genetic sense) shall even forge new species of their own liking. Millions of underlings, each descended from lineages specifically bred in Hakanian fashion to emphasize their racial uniqueness, will flock to the Colosseum of Mars to watch and cheer as nine-foot-tall hulking nude giant, the altered son of the local duke infused with Yeti and Neanderthal DNA, rends apart saber-tooth cat, Allosaurus, terror-bird, Dimetrodon, wyvern, owlbear, and four-armed hyper-gorilla using only a great broadsword forged from as-of-yet unknown alloy. As reward for his victory the Emperor gifts him an eternally-young loli elf concubine from among his harem, whom the victorious champion impregnates on the spot - the masses erupt into thunderous applause at his completion. But I digress - all this is to say, yes, I agree with your assessment.

[Guest]

Yes, I agree. I do not believe that these things (cybernetics, genetic engineering) are bad in and of themselves, but rather that they are improperly oriented in this particular tranny worldview. The height of human advancement and mastery of the world to make your Second Life (which I now realize is what the art on that site reminded me of - must investigate the Second Life-Old Guard Troon connection!) fursona real... disgusting! I dream of a world similar to a mixture of Warhammer 40k and Gene Wolfe's The Book of the New Sun, with a godlike emperor reigning over a vast interstellar empire striated by a complex, weaving, ever-shifting system of castes, ranks, and titles - 

Check out the Red Rising series. It starts as a trashy Hunger Games-ter YA about overthrowing an 'oppressive and cruel' genetically modified aristocracy, which has further genetically modified every subset of society according to it's will. After several books, it oddly becomes apologia for said aristocracy — as the author (via his characters) rediscovers democracy is shit. By the fifth or so book, the reactionaries are consciously written to be the most endearing characters of the entire series.

The rest of your post feels ripped from that universe. It's not nearly as topwit as Wolfe, but it is very fun.

[JohnnyRomero]

Check out the Red Rising series. It starts as a trashy Hunger Games-ter YA about overthrowing an 'oppressive and cruel' genetically modified aristocracy, which has further genetically modified every subset of society according to it's will. After several books, it oddly becomes apologia for said aristocracy — as the author (via his characters) rediscovers democracy is shit. By the fifth or so book, the reactionaries are consciously written to be the most endearing characters of the entire series.

The rest of your post feels ripped from that universe. It's not nearly as topwit as Wolfe, but it is very fun.

Awesome, will be sure to check it out. Thank you!