(07-15-2023, 07:33 AM)kirukuni Wrote: [ -> ] (07-14-2023, 11:54 PM)ꦈꦒꦲꦸꦫꦲꦺꦴꦗ꦳ꦲ Wrote: [ -> ]
Natsuiro High School: Seishun Hakusho
Summertime High School: A Young Man's Notes—How a New Exchange Student Like Myself Ran Into His Childhood Friend on the School Tour, Then for Some Reason Became Super-Popular with the Girls for His Daily Scoops on the School Photography Club Even Though He Only Takes Panty Shots, and What He Thinks as He Goes on Dates During His Summer of Island School Life.
Have you ever read any interviews from that dev? He was inspired by GTA, but didn't want any niggers and replaced gun fights with panty shots of small girls. He's an enlightened man.
Wanted to pop in and say how cool this is. Did not know, will be buying now (though the name alone would've been day1 had I known earlier).
(07-16-2023, 03:09 AM)anthony Wrote: [ -> ]My point I wanted to make, which may not have come out too clearly, is that American (kind of western but mostly talking American) indie "scene" was more like an idea or aesthetic. A direction in which to make games. The fact they were "indie" was incidental and temporary. [...]
Please use the Vampire Name and call it what it is:
TIGSource - Super Meat Boy, Fez, Braid.. even good game Hotline Miami all emerged from TIGSource.
The "moustache" Millennial (they're Xennials but people don't understand there's a massive cultural divide between '80s and '90s births, TIGSource is all '80s babies which is why they have the twee obsession with '80s schlock) faggot "hipster" (not real hipsters 'cause they're not actually contrarian to fagciety, except for Cactus and some of the games that never made it) hive.
Guest Wrote:[...] Can't really get to the other points, but the idea that there is a huge difference between Japanese indie and American indie is somewhat silly. Yes, Japan got to it first, but the precepts of early Western indie and Japanese indie are essentially the same; [...]
Compare Japanese games from the '70s - '80s (I point here because I want to use the weakest era with the hardest technical limits, the most abstraction, and the least of a lead from Japan) against their western counterparts— the difference is comical.
Furthermore, make the same statement about animation and watch it fall apart:
This was Japanese animation in 1987, you can look here to compare it to what everyone else was doing the same year:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_an...ms_of_1987
The west simply took longer to grasp what "video games" are or could be due to the abstract nature of gaming as a medium.
This is not at all to say there are no good western games— it's to point out the disparity of them being so rare and abnormal while being so critically acclaimed (what the west is good at making are SYSTEMS: like DOOM, Unreal, and Source):
If even 20% of western efforts were as good as NARC, I might say they're equivalent to Japan.
As it stands, unfortunately the width of talent stateside and abroad (even the theoretical reapplication of Hollywood types or etc. to) gaming has not been utilized (because they're absorbed into other industries (I'll make a relevant post on
NEOTOKYO and pushBAK about this later) or suicide from demoralization), unlike Japan which affords
more (there is
always lost talent in this horrid world) of these people real opportunities (although ZOG POZ coming in hot through Soyny, the now race traitor company is tryna pull the brakes on that).
Creatively, Japan has no real competitor (western gaming has traditionally relied on and been oriented around STEM due to it being seen as part of the technology sector through Silicon Valley on the west coast, why physics systems and etc. are all American and why Half-Life is about a scientist).
Where are the equivalent works from Germany, Italy, Spain?
Okay, Scotland gave us Rockstar.. so that counts for a lot, but nothing else— so the only country I can
really point to is Sweden:
Team Psykskallar (ruMpel):
Dennaton Games:
Those were mentioned already though, how about Starbreeze:
But what, 3 companies? That's kind of pathetic when you compare the size of Japan vs their output.
I could point to France with Microïds' Syberia, Post Mortem, Still Life.. but then I'm almost just complimenting Sokal.. David Cage is
interesting.. but he's an idiot, and it's all so
French.
Technically, after America they should get the 2nd spot for how much they've done, but I'd prefer to give it to Sweden just for Wrong Number or Cry of Fear.
Issue being, the best western game developers that have ever existed (many of whom I interacted with and even watched develop) did so in the crevices of deviantART, Newgrounds, and especially Second Life (as well as the odd
forum here and there)— this actually explains why Sweden pulls through, as Cactus and ruMpel share a background in
modding as the best would-be game developers from the west are all
modders. Because unlike in Japan, they have to do everything themselves for lack of infrastructure that helps them out. SUDA51 was able to join the game industry as a "writer" and create completely unique work by
directing people more technically competent than he is, the American equivalent (I don't mean by output, but by circumstance)
was Tim Schafer, but only because George Lucas used the military spending budget generated by Star Wars to open a path more similar to Japan— the modern version is shit like Hamburger Hepler (who was right in saying they should cut combat from Ass Effect, 'cause the combat in that fucking sucks) Quinn or any other niggered diversity welfare hire.
(07-16-2023, 03:34 AM)anthony Wrote: [ -> ][...] I was actually just going to make another post about how flash games were the western doujin scene and the authentic expression of what normal people outside the industry proper were interested in. And if you remember, it was all cool edgy nu-metal stuff. It was Madness Combat. It wasn't all shooting, but none of it was communist. Again, "indie" was a subculture, not the state of independence. [...]
And much of that is unfortunately lost to time despite Fulp's perseverance with Newgrounds— I had extremely modded versions of the original Madness Interactive with hundreds of custom guns and shit from anime which I downloaded off of personal websites I'll never remember the names of (I'm sure not archived anyway).
Right, back on subject— what makes Japan better is simply the ratio (that's a byproduct of a functioning society). There is likely just as much talent in America (if not more, even if only due to population density) as there is in Japan, but it is not allowed to be used, except when the internet was freer, and these people could unchain themselves manually in the aforementioned places— this would be the good side (or use) of Anthony's later point about western indie games being like "guerrilla war".
Guest Wrote:[...] Zoe Quinn both spiritually (in creating Depression Quest) and physically (Alec Holowka) killed this scene, but it's totally untrue that she was the dominant force. E.Y.E, Hotline Miami (as you mentioned), Super Meat Boy, Gunpoint, and hell, even Fez (as much as it's creator is a retarded nigger), are games with very strict, well defined visions which innovated in their genres heavily, that match Cave Story and other Japanese games. [...]
I'm more than happy to blame fat, ugly, stupid egg-shaped slag poser Quinn for everything (and we all should, because it's funny):
But TIGSource was always a collection of loser faggots with the actual hipsters like Cactus a talented minority caught in there for lack of anywhere else to go (to get feedback or attention, outside of spamming your shit on 4trans like Notch did).
Guest Wrote:[...] Just because everyone involved was a faggot doesn't really mean the products were bad; you could say pretty much the same thing about the musical indie scene, honestly.
Hopefully we all know that "seperate art and artist" is completely farcical, as people are entirely capable of
lying and as such many artists of weaker character will express the truth in their work and deny it with their words. So, I agree— only trust the work.
Guest Wrote:Admittedly, the notion that the American indie scene was a very intelligent place with great developers does somewhat come crashing down when you realize that they seriously thought fucking Braid was a good game, but the point remains.
While I find this negrolatrous video very funny, Blow actually isn't a moron— it's just that Braid was fucking stupid bait. The Witness was a much better effort and application of his interest in esoteric puzzle systems in games and making a Mystlike is far more honest than making a retarded version of Super Mario Bros. It's still mostly held back by his retarded aesthetic sense, but it's better than Braid (well, the parts of it that're actually 'designed', a lotta the shit looks like a fucking iPhone game).
(07-16-2023, 03:09 AM)anthony Wrote: [ -> ][...] American indies are always driven by this ugly, resenting, fighting disposition. Japanese "indies" feel like they were made by people who love normal Japanese video games. Like all doujin works. It's cottage industry expansion of the big living mainstream thing. While in the west it's guerrilla war against it. And like all communist guerrilla wars it's actually sponsored by the American Establishment all along.
Good point, reminds me of the DT quote about how trying to date in America is a form of combat and that's why his quitter ass fucks Jungle Asian whores in the 3rd world. The culture of America for a long time has been far too combative, and it's why degenerative retards tend to win out. Leather skinned niggers (even if they wear the fairy faggot body of a longfaced antifa troon) can brute force their way into the arts where finer people will simply choose to leave when faced with needing to behave like their lessers to "win" something they should have as a birthright.
Guest Wrote:I will agree with this, in the sense that the worse impulses of indie won out over the better ones due to coordinated campaigns by niggers, feminists and jews to promote "art games" that absolutely destroyed the scene, [...]
What should happen with "indie" (and it's still on the table but we're most likely going to get a warped version of it since the only thing all the failures on the "right" produce is CRITICISM, yeah don't learn Japanese, it's called TRANSlation right? Let them do it! I'm sure nothing bad will come out of it) is for it to recapture/transform into the neo-AA market. The entire gaming industry was built by AA titles and the nostalgia for the PS2 era is really just nostalgia for a thriving AA industry. The likes of Dennaton, Team Psykskallar, Puppet Combo, Krinkels (now that he got into it via the success of Project Nexus 2), or anyone else good should not have to stay "indies" nor sell their sovl to AAA dogshit (ruMpel tried this and quit) NOR have to quit games altogether to work in Hollyweird (though pushBAK's contributions to Weta are easily their best).
Guest Wrote:[...] so many indie devs cared deeply about making games that were fun, that rejected the dusty nihilism of a lot of 00s culture. [...]
Now I have to make a fucking thread about "Hopepunk".