Amarna Forum

Selim Wrote:anthony noted on Amarna 1.0 that trannies like "mechanical dollhouse" type games, where a complex and no holds barred drama is aspired for but mediated through several layers of inhuman abstraction...

... Why is that? In a better world actual sociologists would be researching this instead of investigating why White people were racist during the bubonic plague in England or whatever.

The 'easy' answer is naturally the autism correlate. But we can maybe expand this in a different direction, by seeing it as a meeting of two other phenomena:

1. Kaczynski-esque surrogate activities 
2. Stunted Adolescence

Let me expand a bit on the latter: One of the shared experiences most common to trannies a failure of the psychological masculinization process. This relates to the thesis that I attempted to advance earlier in this thread it connects again with other disjoint facts that have also been observed (the high proportion of military trannies, the tendencies to convert to Catholicism/Orthodoxy/Islam as a way of stemming off the tranny-desires). In all cases, the prodomal tranny does the activity often with a sense that they do not feel like a man, and that by engaging with element X - they will be redeemed or corrected into a proper natural state.

"The military will make a man out of me."

In reality, this fails and the though the experience does change them in certain ways - it does not overcome the internal stunted adolescence. Nor does it overcome AGP. If anything, the sense of failure at overcoming becomes a positive feedback to tranny-desires, as it yields retro-contexualized proof that they are in fact trans. After all, if you do something as dramatic as spend three years in the marines, and still don't feel like an actual man - it is natural to wonder what else there is to actually try. The answer is not much.

This might seem tangential to the specific points you have raised, but now consider the corollary -- what exactly characterizes the stunted adolescence?  It is in that phase of life that we often most aggressively and obsessively pursue mastery of new skills. If you learned to draw or play music, you likely learned it between 13 and 17. If you dabbled in experimental aesthetics or even standard edge aesthetics (goth/emo/scene/etc), you likely did it at that age. The tendencies which you identify as common to trannies are just generalities common to what might be considered as boyhood. Things like Pokemon, Fromsoft games, and HoI  - these yield natural simulacra for the mastery drive and it is why teenage boys love them so much. At a certain point, we are suppose to psychologically mature past the point of desiring simulated mastery towards desiring a real practical practical mastery within the social context.

Modern trans-identity takes this psychological formation as its basis and creates an affirmative social context for stunted adolescence. Some pictures may really draw it home -







These are some small samples of one segment of aesthetic tranny twitter ('puppy girls'). Key point: These aren't female aesthetics - they are a hyperdevelopment of adolescent male exploratory aesthetics. In many ways, they are exploring aesthetics in the same way that teenage mall goths and metal kids used to, but it has been fully canonized as a lifestyle.

In TF2 there's no headshots except for a few weapons and the Sniper. The items are structured like an RPG, with a lot of give and take stats, shooting someone in the chest with a pistol does <10% damage to their health. There's a larger disconnect between what you do and what happens in that game compared to other shooting games, eclipsed by the coming of the "hero shooter".

The dignified retro style that is ruined by garishly colored hats (by in game paint can items) appeals to troons. Before Troon Fortress was seen as that, it was mainly seen as the furry game around 2015 and earlier, and still has dedicated servers for furries.

Recent Friend Wrote:In TF2 there's no headshots except for a few weapons and the Sniper. The items are structured like an RPG, with a lot of give and take stats, shooting someone in the chest with a pistol does <10% damage to their health. There's a larger disconnect between what you do and what happens in that game compared to other shooting games, eclipsed by the coming of the "hero shooter".

The dignified retro style that is ruined by garishly colored hats (by in game paint can items) appeals to troons. Before Troon Fortress was seen as that, it was mainly seen as the furry game around 2015 and earlier, and still has dedicated servers for furries.

You are very correct. The class-based shooter seems to appeal to trannies more than other kinds of FPS games. (This applies not only to TF2, but also Overwatch, Valorant, etc.. Note the cohabitation of trannies and normie e-daters in these games.) If something like CoD or Counter-Strike is "Final Destination, Fox only, no items" then TF2 is playing default settings Smash Bros. on a map with a ton of stage hazards. Not only does the gameplay experience depend heavily on which class you choose to play as, but the ability to change your loadout by mixing and matching weapons gives the player considerable control. Certain classes have entire "subclass" playstyles, e.g., Demoknight, Battle Engineer, Fat Scout. Once you have chosen your class and loadout, the gameplay consists of getting into matchups with enemy players which are already favorable to you and avoiding situations where you are basically certain to die. This is the most "mechanical dollhouse-core" an FPS can be.

There is a running meme in the TF2 community that people outside of the explicitly competitive segment of the player base improve very little. The more competitive side of the fanbase seems less trannified than the rest of it. I feel that this is exhibited in the fans who use community servers for 1v1 duels (MGE Mod). People who "main" a certain class and try to improve their mechanical skill get a bad reputation in the TF2 fan longhouse -- see the common grievances about Spy mains (for whom there is a considerably high skill ceiling based around mastering reflex-based "trickstabs") being le cringy weeaboos (SYM) and Sniper mains being edgelords (also SYM).



This deficiency in the basic gameplay probably explains the proliferation of community-operated servers which work very differently from the base game. Much of my time playing TF2 over the years has been spent in the Jailbreak and Vs Saxton Hale/Freak Fortress community game modes as well as trade servers with wholesome comfy retro maps. You can easily comprehend how community servers for "hanging out" and trading where people are quite focused on dressing up their mercenaries in hats and cosmetics as if playing a literal dollhouse game appeal to trannies.  

Quote:The dignified retro style that is ruined by garishly colored hats (by in game paint can items) appeals to troons.

I could write at length about the decline of TF2 aesthetically for the sake of making the game a lucrative hat collection simulator. For now I'll just encourage people to watch this video.

There are a few other things I'll go over briefly. The average TF2 Medic main is stereotyped as a femoid/tranny attention whore e-dater "healslut", much like Mercy players in Overwatch. Lining up with my previous analysis that Spy and Sniper mains are the Sensitive Young Men of TF2, a popular YouTuber who edits montages of their epic spy gameplay feels kind of right-wing-adjacent, loving moe animu and sampling Sam Hyde clips. Another TF2 YouTuber, Zesty Jesus, was targeted by the longhoused fanbase for all of the usual "problematic" behaviors.

Fortnite basically turned into Gmod and TF2 for children with no ability to mess around with it yourself if you know computers. The appeal of a "game" that's more like a virtual playground and hangout space is very broad.

TF2 also has a small rw-animu-adjacent community called Kogasatopia where I've played some games in the past.

https://tf2.gyate.net/

Also to the list of SYM TF2 classes Scout could be a good addition.

From my observations trannies and normies mostly left for Valorant and Overwatch, the ones who stayed are strictly furries who mostly stick to their own private communities and when they venture into public servers they are kicked without given any reason for simply having a furry profile picture.

Virtue Wrote:TF2 also has a small rw-animu-adjacent community called Kogasatopia where I've played some games in the past.

https://tf2.gyate.net/

Also to the list of SYM TF2 classes Scout could be a good addition.

From my observations trannies and normies mostly left for Valorant and Overwatch, the ones who stayed are strictly furries who mostly stick to their own private communities and when they venture into public servers they are kicked without given any reason for simply having a furry profile picture.

Haha, I actually happened to discover this server in the last week. When I first joined, I noticed all the Touhou textures on the map and the sociable/eccentric people interacting. I immediately messaged a friend saying that I couldn't tell "whether the players are more trans or more racist".

Striped_Pyjama_Boy_Nietzschean Wrote:Do we know of any example where close to isolation of a trannification influence has occurred? e.g. trans individual with BPD mother and no vaporwave nor pornography.

I can confidently assert that AGP formation is porn independent. I developed it prior to any exposure to porn and made impromptu use of women's fashion catalogues. I've known a few conditional examples of individuals satisfying these criteria - eg, individuals that grew up amongst the Jehova's Witnesses and had extremely low porn exposure until their 20s. They almost certainly encountered porn prior to transition, but they claimed dysphoria dating back to ages 8-14.

Striped_Pyjama_Boy_Nietzschean Wrote:

Zed Wrote:I can confidently assert that AGP formation is porn independent. I developed it prior to any exposure to porn and made impromptu use of women's fashion catalogues. I've known a few conditional examples of individuals satisfying these criteria - eg, individuals that grew up amongst the Jehova's Witnesses and had extremely low porn exposure until their 20s. They almost certainly encountered porn prior to transition, but they claimed dysphoria dating back to ages 8-14.

That's interesting. I do wish to find an example tolerably isolating it to one influence though. There could be other cases where different influences act and one particular influence were absent. To have isolation however, would give small field to find the essential.

You mean that the Witnesses used fashion catalog too?

Hard to know the truth here, trannies are notorious for narrative reconstructions. Clear and honest case studies are pretty rare. Many, especially older ones, refuse to even admit to having AGP. Younger ones are almost universally porn-exposed early in life, so the relevant sample would have to be taken amongst millennials/gen-x trannies.

AGP is an ancient perversion. A man likes sex with women, starts wondering what it's like from the woman's perspective, starts getting turned on by self inserting into a woman, starts crossdressing, and so on. There's no porn or anything required, though excessive masturbation is likely a prerequisite. Crops up in numerous ancient cultures. The question is if modern trannification is solely due to AGP.

Trannies have been around for a long time, but when leftists made being a tranny high status, their numbers exploded. Shouldn't believe any claims of "gender dysphoria". Teenagers feel dysphoria in general; teenage angst is meant to drive action and becoming. This will of course be reinterpreted by them as sexual dysphoria but we shouldn't take that at face value.

Obviously a lot of men are "in it" for high status. This isn't a cynical calculation, it's just that many normies are desperate to feel like part of an ingroup and truly feel "euphoric" when they do things that make them belong to the group. That's not going to happen to a guy who feels content and is already part of an ingroup, it's going to happen to a guy who feels bad about being perennially discluded.

chevauchee Wrote:Trannies have been around for a long time, but when leftists made being a tranny high status, their numbers exploded. Shouldn't believe any claims of "gender dysphoria". Teenagers feel dysphoria in general; teenage angst is meant to drive action and becoming. This will of course be reinterpreted by them as sexual dysphoria but we shouldn't take that at face value.

If a person experiences some fetishistic or social euphoria one time, they may also later on interpret a withdrawal, or unsatiated cravings for that experience as "dysphoria".

Quote:Obviously a lot of men are "in it" for high status. This isn't a cynical calculation, it's just that many normies are desperate to feel like part of an ingroup and truly feel "euphoric" when they do things that make them belong to the group. That's not going to happen to a guy who feels content and is already part of an ingroup, it's going to happen to a guy who feels bad about being perennially discluded.

I agree completely, continuing: Because diagnosis is centered around the desire to have the disorder, the concept of "gender dysphoria" is circular and unfalsifiable given this desire. If an adult or child goes to a doctor and says they want to change their gender, unlike for most other mental disorders which have some diagnostic criteria that can potentially act to weed out fakers, they literally can't be denied treatment within this medical framing unless they were very unsure about it to begin with. Similarly, a person asking themselves the question "Do I really have gender dysphoria?" is merely asking themselves "Do I really want to change my gender?".

So there is no sense in which someone can "fake" having gender dysphoria, they would have to be lying with full knowledge (because they wanted to be a different gender to fit in) while simultaneously not wanting to be a different gender, which is highly improbable. A transtrender wants to change their gender to fit in socially, and feels dysphoric if they are prevented from doing so in a way that is about as valid as a fetishist's dysphoria.

The "distress" or "discomfort" commonly defined as central to gender dysphoria qualifies the question: "Would you feel really bad if we didn't give you hormones, or just a little bad?".

"You are about to harm yourself. This action cannot be undone. Are you sure? [Y/N]"

I think the confusion on this topic arises from most people greatly overestimating the purity of their own volition. You don't have to be cynical or calculating to be deeply and unconsciously influenced by social incentives or sexual fetishes, that's unfortunately the default state of most humans.

Has anyone else noticed how FTMs seem to have their own version of the MTF's lain aesthetic but for calart-style media? Like Steven Universe?

Lutras Wrote:Has anyone else noticed how FTMs seem to have their own version of the MTF's lain aesthetic but for calart-style media? Like Steven Universe?

There are interesting tendencies to be found among FTMs, all of whom possess a psychological profile compared to MTFs (who could have guessed that???) and with that their own aesthetic tastes. From my limited observations, what you mention about the CalArt style is true, alongside a range of passive-to-active interest in certain male characters. I italicize this because one can produce another version of this thread just by analyzing which male characters garner the attention of FtMs. It also has some relation to what's already been discovered here about art by women. As Anthony mentioned:

Quote:Stuff like Andy and Leyley is them approaching their less disrupted ideal where they're still weird and retarded, but it comes out interesting and extreme. Like when japanese women do pop-art. Every other woman who draws in Japan seems to be into drawing boys cutting each other up with knives or something. And that's fine. It's real to them. It's what's actually going on in their heads. So it's really interesting. And from what i hear 2000s white girl internet was basically that too. If there were no cultural subversion insanity going on they might have created their own shoujo manga (or guro shotacon doujin) scenes and industries by now.

One can find that the FTM has a preference towards this version of boys: the image of the boy is accompanied with a reserved display of violence (cutting themselves up, which is fairly different from a depiction of one-sided violence like homicide), something affected for the pleasure of the observer. That the FTM can have a combined taste for this and for CalArts animation has a lot to do with what sites they browse, the obvious one being Tumblr. FTMs, by and large, have virtually the same manner of emotional expression as they did before their transition, so their aesthetic orientation is mostly unchanged on that note. The only real difference is that they have personal reasons to focus on the male figure, either for erotic purposes or as a means to confirm their own FTM fantasy. 

Speaking on the latter sense: just as many MTFs want to be a "girl" and not necessarily a "woman", the MTF has a preferential stance on being a "boy". Stephen Universe is bait for FTMs since the character is prepubescent, fulfilling the criteria of being male but not "masculine". There isn't anything offensive about the character, nothing that would make them feel uncomfortable about manhood. If they felt driven to reach such conclusions about men, they would be radfems instead or a rare frankenstein's monster combination of the two. For all intents and purposes, their positive vision of regular men is built around present-day Norwooded iterations: they might not identify with this but they can appreciate the spiritually defeated muscular man (recent God of War games).

JohnTrent Wrote:

Lutras Wrote:Has anyone else noticed how FTMs seem to have their own version of the MTF's lain aesthetic but for calart-style media? Like Steven Universe?

There are interesting tendencies to be found among FTMs, all of whom possess a psychological profile compared to MTFs (who could have guessed that???) and with that their own aesthetic tastes. From my limited observations, what you mention about the CalArt style is true, alongside a range of passive-to-active interest in certain male characters. I italicize this because one can produce another version of this thread just by analyzing which male characters garner the attention of FtMs. It also has some relation to what's already been discovered here about art by women. As Anthony mentioned:

Quote:Stuff like Andy and Leyley is them approaching their less disrupted ideal where they're still weird and retarded, but it comes out interesting and extreme. Like when japanese women do pop-art. Every other woman who draws in Japan seems to be into drawing boys cutting each other up with knives or something. And that's fine. It's real to them. It's what's actually going on in their heads. So it's really interesting. And from what i hear 2000s white girl internet was basically that too. If there were no cultural subversion insanity going on they might have created their own shoujo manga (or guro shotacon doujin) scenes and industries by now.

One can find that the FTM has a preference towards this version of boys: the image of the boy is accompanied with a reserved display of violence (cutting themselves up, which is fairly different from a depiction of one-sided violence like homicide), something affected for the pleasure of the observer. That the FTM can have a combined taste for this and for CalArts animation has a lot to do with what sites they browse, the obvious one being Tumblr. FTMs, by and large, have virtually the same manner of emotional expression as they did before their transition, so their aesthetic orientation is mostly unchanged on that note. The only real difference is that they have personal reasons to focus on the male figure, either for erotic purposes or as a means to confirm their own FTM fantasy. 

Speaking on the latter sense: just as many MTFs want to be a "girl" and not necessarily a "woman", the MTF has a preferential stance on being a "boy". Stephen Universe is bait for FTMs since the character is prepubescent, fulfilling the criteria of being male but not "masculine". There isn't anything offensive about the character, nothing that would make them feel uncomfortable about manhood. If they felt driven to reach such conclusions about men, they would be radfems instead or a rare frankenstein's monster combination of the two. For all intents and purposes, their positive vision of regular men is built around present-day Norwooded iterations: they might not identify with this but they can appreciate the spiritually defeated muscular man (recent God of War games).

I think Lutras is right to home in on the "calarts" stuff. Cartoons of the 2010s we might say. Big, rounded, soft, retarded things. Reality rendered into this retarded simulacra of a wholesome lovable child's symbol-drawings. But FtM's and Fujos don't overlap perfectly. Particularly the FtMs *do not like violence*. They're fujobrains who want to live the simulacra rather than play with it. Let me get you a couple of visual references.



This is Omocat, the creator of Omori. She is a westernised asian girl. And Omori was her baby. A pre-gamergate western fujo work about cute boys who cut each other up with knives in an idealised child-mindscape world as imagined by an adult. I link this video of her drawing pokemon because I want you to note this style that she can effortlessly pull off. She can draw in a way which registers as childish. But it's not how children draw.



I imagine that if we were to ask her she would not pretend that this is how she sees the world, or that it's a reflection of who she is. She would probably say that she thinks it's "cute".



There may be something kind of innately perverted about this. Creating and enjoying these revised fantasies of a child's mind twisted to suit the preferences of adults who hold some kind of fascination with children. But what I'll say for Omocat (and generally all oriental attempts at doing this), it's cute when she does it. Her idea of child art is big eyed wobbly crayon drawings of cute animals.



I have to point out now that the very successful shota hentai game 'Summer Memories' basically does this to the anime style for its look. Anime women with rough crayon edges, slight, childish exaggerations to form. And then within the game there are crayon drawings which are like this phenomena squared (to the point of looking like Omocat's pokemon).



I am suggesting that there is something innately perverted about an adult wanting to simulate a child's mindscape, bent towards their own preferences. There are Japanese works which feel no need to play around this and just go all in on big eyed shotas cutting each other and getting molested by insane older women. And there are cases that are more sly about this. Omocat is sly, but also I think she is a genuinely sublimated character. She's into this stuff, but works through it in a way that's nice and pretty and gives people something nice to enjoy and doesn't cross any lines that really upset anybody (again, pre-gamergate. She was probably lucky she started so early).



She likes pain and distress. There's a kind of charming purity to children in her work. But this is played into extremity. The childishness gives the pain weight. The child's world is purer and stronger. It's not a mental retreat. She is not an escapist. The fascination with children is going in the opposite direction. This childish world is more painful than her own one. You know, I just realised who else is relevant.



Unstoppable and eternal. Possibly the most important pop-artist alive.

Omocat is sort of like a female and westernised Tsukushi.

My point so far, in case I'm wandering a bit and losing any of you, is that certain finely strung people can develop a fascination with an adult's idea of the childish. In my reading of this, the superior way to take this is the oriental one. An association between children and a fineness of character, cuteness of form, idealism and purity, and from there a compelling experience of a real and scary and adult world. This is how I would characterise the work of Omocat, Tsukushi, and yes, the lower, more perverted fascination with shota and loli in the orient I believe are a manifestation of the same tendency. Perhaps you find these things distasteful, but I think there is a case to be made that you need to be a certain kind of idealist to be interested in them.

Now, if I'm referring to the orient in something, that means I see another side to it. I believe I said that there is an imperfect overlap between the sensibilities of fujos and FtMs. This divergence is a pretty neat example of the oriental/western split in perception and preference as I see them.

In the west we have lots of media that deals with an adult's idea of the childish. But how this manifests is very different to the oriental works I describe above. There is a fascination with traits seen as childish, and in addition to that a class of experiences seen as childish. Which manifests one one hand in simple grotesquerie made by adults ostensibly for children, which needed heavy top-down forcing at all times and died as soon as the internet opened the doors to the orient (this is what I mean by NAMBLAcore. The fascination with feet, slime, ketchup, dressing and acting like a retard, Dan Schneider stuff, basically the opposite of where Tsukushi takes a fascination with children, which is a belief that they are nicer and purer and worthy of higher experiences of the world). That's one half, and on the other we have filed down reality. Where there's an idealised view of children in the minds of adults who are gigantic stunted weirdos (or making stuff for them). Reality with the edges filed off and made kid-safe. On this end I think Warrior Cats. A fascinating series of novels I only learned about recently, written by a team of women who were able to intelligently read the cultural room and produce kiddy narrative epics about heroic personalities having strong relationships and engaging in high stakes living, but with the extremity removed. The world toned down rather than up.

But of course this is backward to what people actually want. The audience of Warrior Cats I assume is the ten year old Omocat's of the world and girls like that who never quite grew up and found their edges again. Never quite, but why Warrior Cats was brought to my attention, there is basically a kind of cold war within its fanbase between girls who want to accelerate and intensify until this stuff reads like Made in Abyss and older women who want to keep things in the spiritual playpen forever.

This side of western childish media is what's relevant to the issue at hand, which is tranny sociology in case you've forgotten (I often worry I wander too far when writing). What are the sensibilities of FtMs? Well I hope you can agree with me first that their taste is childish. And from there, why all of the above was necessary, which childish? Well, we can look at what they're making, then you can probably tell me.





"Yeah bro, can you even handle my irreverence? Isn't Nimona just CRAZY?"

Pooners, are girls who are attracted to an idea of children as living in a softened reality. Specifically boys because in their minds they're less sexualised by the world, meaning their reality is even softer and less scary. Growing up as a girl I'm sure can be scary, so I sympathise and feel like I kind of get where this comes from. Boyhood as a kind of toy reality in which nobody wants you in any kind of scary way and everything can be platonic and pure, which then leaves life open to radical and quirked out zany adventures of the Nimona kind. This is escapism rather than upwardly oriented idealism, so naturally the art suffers quite badly when approached from this angle compared to its opposite.

Not only do FtMs and Fujos not agree in taste, I would actually see they're moving in opposite directions. If they look like they can be paired together that's just because you identified a point where they passed each other. Omocat and ND Stevenson might have both read Warrior Cats, but one type of girl goes on to writes rapefics about its characters, while the other starts rallying fanmobs to force the authors to apologise for problematic depictions of relationship dynamics in past works.



I hope you can spot the differences now when looking at these things. And also appreciate what I mean when I talk about childishness in media.

Some trannitor has seemingly bubbled this back up to the surface in spite of being a 13 year old study based on 30 year old science. Does the "le scientific" side of troonstudies even put in any serious effort to pretend its not just intellectual cowardice? I am reminded of that Stephen Jay Gould faggot and his ludicrous "deboonk" of IQ science. Surely the lecturer himself understands that he is stretching a correlation as much as possible to support the PC agenda. Obviously the supposed physiological correleation he claims here has never been used in any diagnosis as far as I'm aware. In fact I am pretty sure troons use the term "transmedicalism" to excuse any situation in which a person thinks they are trans but has no physiological indicators, so it's completely null and void anyway.



Evidently, the uploader doesn't really feel the science is settled here either. Probably he has autism. Is he going to do anythintg about the fact 99.8% of the commentators interpret this as scientific gospel endorsing gendermania? All these fence-shitting stemtards are cowards. I remember my friend in stem smugly insisting woke would never touch it because it's about REAL DATA and you can't wokify that. But the payoff for stemfags cowardice and social meekness in the face of untruth is quite apparent and obvious nowadays.

anthony Wrote:She likes pain and distress. There's a kind of charming purity to children in her work. But this is played into extremity. The childishness gives the pain weight. The child's world is purer and stronger. It's not a mental retreat. She is not an escapist. The fascination with children is going in the opposite direction. This childish world is more painful than her own one. You know, I just realised who else is relevant.

[...]

My point so far, in case I'm wandering a bit and losing any of you, is that certain finely strung people can develop a fascination with an adult's idea of the childish. In my reading of this, the superior way to take this is the oriental one. An association between children and a fineness of character, cuteness of form, idealism and purity, and from there a compelling experience of a real and scary and adult world. This is how I would characterise the work of Omocat, Tsukushi, and yes, the lower, more perverted fascination with shota and loli in the orient I believe are a manifestation of the same tendency. Perhaps you find these things distasteful, but I think there is a case to be made that you need to be a certain kind of idealist to be interested in them.

South Park is another interesting example. It has in recent years developed a community of female fans who make such yaoi drawings about the male characters, which I was surprised to learn about because the show is obviously designed to appeal to a male audience. South Park is aesthetically crude and regularly embraces the grotesque and offensive, but it is also centered around young boys trying to understand the corrupted adult world from a position of innocence. The portrayal is more honest than most Western media, and I suppose this is the origin of its appeal among females.

One thing I have noticed with troon communities is that many act exactly the same way as most of the modern internet radicals. Increasingly warped view of reality, belief in the "genocide" of their group by "omnipresent and invincible" enemy, which at the same time is also "severely weakened and on the brink of death". Majority of transgender-oriented communities online are strictly moderated echo-chambers, such structures allow for rumors, personal interpretations, unconfirmed reports (all sprinkled with each of the individual member's mental illnesses) to spread like wildfires, being treated as undeniable truth, not too far from the incel communities. Heavy moderation and protection allows every member to develop an incredibly thin skin; one accident and you already become a bigot that wants them dead. The fact that most of them are terminally online, mentally ill or just gullible children or young adults without any real life experience leads to increased susceptibility to such things.

Slightly off this specific topic, but still I'd like to ask a question: Do you think that the present "crisis" is more of a "natural occurence", a passing fad similar to hippies, punks and emos of the past, or perhaps something more artificial? Think of MK-Ultra style programming. Remember, pharma makes millions of dollars off of transgenders with "gender-affirming care", medications and surgeries, all happy to give their money "to become their True and Honest selves".

admiral Wrote:Slightly off this specific topic, but still I'd like to ask a question: Do you think that the present "crisis" is more of a "natural occurence", a passing fad similar to hippies, punks and emos of the past, or perhaps something more artificial? 

Current rates of transition are probably 100x* the rates pre-2006. Under natural conditions, I would have expected a more gradual increase of 10x* followed by a period of stabilization. Typically it takes little more then a brief exposure to seeing successful passing trannies to inspire someone with proto-dysphoria into transitioning. A single picture or article is sufficient, and the internet ensured that exposure was inevitable.

(*I don't know the exact factor.)

(02-26-2024, 06:06 AM)admiral Wrote: [ -> ]Slightly off this specific topic, but still I'd like to ask a question: Do you think that the present "crisis" is more of a "natural occurence", a passing fad similar to hippies, punks and emos of the past, or perhaps something more artificial?

(02-26-2024, 08:31 AM)Zed Wrote: [ -> ]Current rates of transition are probably 100x* the rates pre-2006. Under natural conditions, I would have expected a more gradual increase of 10x* followed by a period of stabilization. Typically it takes little more then a brief exposure to seeing successful passing trannies to inspire someone with proto-dysphoria into transitioning. A single picture or article is sufficient, and the internet ensured that exposure was inevitable.

(*I don't know the exact factor.)

Autism as the convergence point at which various correlated phenomena generally always seem to overlap is something to think about. 

I'm still working this one out in my own brain but I'm starting to feel like most "autistic" people today actually have something that I'll tentatively label "Synthetic Autism" or "Autism II" ("Autism 2.0" too easily implies some kind of general advancement to Autism proper). I remember listening to Moldbug talk to BAP about one of his latest elite theories and he said something like 'Even the Jews! Even the Jews have been getting worse you knowwww??' The more pressing issue, Moldbug, is: even the autisti are worse now. Autism was nerfed...

(12-09-2023, 05:30 PM)august Wrote: [ -> ]Most say that autism and related disorders are likely to be largely genetic. Again, this isn't really my wheelhouse, but it doesn't make much sense to me how we'd have such an insane growth rate in such a short amount of time if something is largely, perhaps mostly, genetic, as the diagnosis rate and prevalence should be more stable if that were the case. 

My mind immediately wants to believe that part of it is similar to the Gay Question. Apparently, 7.2% of Americans are gay, with Gen Z being 19.2%, Millennials being 11.2%, Gen X being 3.3%, Boomers being 2.7%, and the Silent Generation being 1.7% [...]



[...] Much like I'm doubtful that there is a 'gay gene' that somehow not only survives but thrives despite being antithetical to genetic fitness, the genetic explanation for autism isn't convincing to me at all for the same reasons. Not only is autism exponentially more common than it was not even a century ago, but it also seems to be catastrophically more severe in the most extreme cases. A theory of natural selection in which you have totally maladaptive traits and behaviours being selected and proliferating at such a rate is one that I'm completely unaware of.

I don't think anyone's done it yet so I thought I'd lay out the different FTM and MTF archetypes I've seen since the great Troon awakening, starting with the MTFs

The AGP: the original troon, an unapologetic testosterone fueled fetishist who was into crossdressing and took it to it's logical extreme (think Bruce Jenner and Charles Clymer) . These are the "IT'S MA'AM" type men with insane levels of testosterone and sociopathy who were the first to lay the seeds of Troonery as an actual movement. 6'4" with a man jaw, linebacker shoulders, and a 6 o'clock shadow, he knows he's not real but he get's a euphoric rise out of making you call him "Miss"

The coomer: The dude who busted his nut too much to all the weird porn he could find and fucked up his brain chemistry. 10 years ago these people would larp online as "traps" but with the mainstreaming of trannydom they've been given a new depth to plunge to. Mostly attention seekers the types of which you'd find on 4chan/reddit/twitter who basically do nothing but post porn and fetishizing women (it's okay though because it's "female empowerment" chud!)

"I'm so sorry I was born a man please forgive me": The kids of neurotic single mothers and schoolyard losers. These were the people who were on Tumblr in the 2010s reblogging feminist and gay rights stuff, a combination of female nagging and spite + an inability to connect with males their own age made these people hate their own gender, but despite how faggy they are they were still straight, therefore the only way they could convince themselves to ever get any pussy was by becoming trannies to be in "lesbian" relationships. These are the Trans Rights Activists types you see online for the most part, while the AGP and coomer are more than happy to just wallow in female fetishization the self-hating male *needs* to be seen as a woman to avoid patriarchally non-consensually raping strong independent women with their male privilege

The fat loser: Usually tech guys and speedrunners, men who have entered their mid 30's with no life goals achieved and zero social circles outside the internet (basically the entirety of GDQ and that one Linus tech tips guy). After waking up and realizing it is unequivocally over for them and they can't go back to being 25 again, the only solution left is to troon out, since if you cut your dick off mom won't keep asking you when you're going to settle down and get a real job and a wife and give her grandkids. It's basically an opt out option for people who have given up on life but don't want to blow their brains out just yet

The groomed kids: hyper-atomised kids who grew up almost exclusively on the internet and get groomed into being a troon through discord servers. Quite possibly the most tragic of all seeing that with a bit more IRL social activity they could have avoided their fate, but there's not really much in the way of baked in neurosis outside of autism and being overly online/having no social skills. Usually big art/animation/kiddie game fans (think: sonic the hedgehog), one of the above categories will slide into their DM's and convince them they're a tranny and that's basically the end. Since they're perpetually online too they don't view their parents as authority figures and any form of pushback from the parents will usually be met with them privately communicating with said trannies to receive validation. Less commonly these kids also get groomed by public school teachers into trooning out although their are more recourses to stamping out that sort of grooming as opposed to online groomers.


Now we get to the FTMs. I'm not going to be able to give individual examples here since I'm less well versed in FTM drama and in all honesty FTM's aren't as lolcowy as MTFs but I still have observed multiple subgroups within their sphere

"I'm terrified of being a woman": These are the girls who have been brain-fried by the internet and believe that female adulthood is worse than being an 1800s sugar cane slave worker in Brazil, they view the thought of developing into a woman and pregnancy more terrifying than being flayed alive. Despite this however they are still absolutely terrified of men and usually end up hanging around guys with less combined testosterone than themselves once they start taking T. They always have those pube-beards and look like they're going to explode into tears in any second, and they *love* writing essays on toxic masculinity because since they're too afraid to actually be a man they fall back to their female instincts of trying to drag the standards down to where they are, their entire idea of what a being a man is is a 14 year old boy who loves to goof around and swing on trees without any of the actual testosterone and insane sex drive.

The YAOI girl: Basically the female version of the coomer, these are women who have read, and in most cases drawn/written, way too much fucking YAOI to the point where they want to "be the bishounen, usually twitter/tumblr/pixiv artists who have dreams of being 7'4" and fucking a cute little twink in the ass. Their obsession with man love has basically turned them into pseudo-misogynists and whenever they see a male/female shipping will go into an insane FTM chudrage over the fact that it isn't a drawing of two men having violent anal sex. They also tend to retain streaks of rad-femmery and will go on rants about the "unrealistic depiction of women" despite the fact that all their art is about perfectly manicured men fudgepacking without any of the actual gross elements of gay sex like the enemas, anal lube and 40 man piss orgies

The Reverse Incel: A bizarre fusion of the YAOI girl and the AGP. These are closer to normie tier Instagram girls who have a weird fetish for the fuckboy/2000's skate kid/emo aesthetic and will spend absurd amounts of money to end up looking like a perpetual 14 year old boy (tbf most FTMs do but these people are OBSESSED with perfecting the look). Less obviously fetish driven like the YAOI girl and more obsessed with fashion and aesthetics, although they definitely DO have a fetish for wanting to fuck the Sk8r boi. Anyway I call these people the reverse incels because they get ALL the surgeries, hairline masculinization, leg lengthening, jaw sharpening and a whole lot more.

"I got molested by my uncle": Girls who got molested by a male family member as kids who think if they troon out no one will ever molest them again. This definitely seems to be over-represented by brown/black FTM's but they also do exist amongst white FTM's, but more often then not white FTM's fall into the "I'm terrified of being a woman" category without any molestation actually happening. They're also usually very butthurt about not being seen as manly or male enough and love soylennial depictions of masculinity like sports, growing a beard and drinking beer.

The autist/group fad retard: This is a trend nearly exclusive to the FTM's, basically autistic girls or girls who get caught up easily with internet fads who just convince themselves they're trannies. Either a friend troons out or a doctor tells them they might be trans or they get groomed online and just decide to become trannies due to female retardation. In any other decade they would have probably been bulimic or emos or whatever retarded fad females were into at that point but trooning out is what's in these days so that's what these dumb cunts fall for. As opposed to the male grooming victim these cases are more easily removed from their retardation and a lot of them will just end up becoming "non binary" or some other fake 2013 era Tumblr gender, but a lot of the time they also just have libtard normgroid parents whose eyes will glaze over and say "sure honey whatever you want". A solid 50% of those who do end up becoming zippertits end up regretting it and become detransition advocates or will probably be future witnesses for cases against the troon industry